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Let’s not exaggerate again, like ”hundreds of GBs” needed for macOS or having to ”reinstall Steam 7,000 times” in Wine/Crossover. I didn’t ”completely miss” any points. If you were sick of macOS and Macs that’s fine, you made your choice but with every suggested solution you come up with even more weird problems.

Here we’re talking about those few Mac users who still want to play 32-bit games, not people who switched to PC years ago mainly because ”it didn't feel like MY computer, it felt like Apple’s”. The user macfacts claimed that ”Mac is a fail” for 32-bit games today which can be true in their case and for their particular needs but it’s also far from the whole truth because of the solutions I’ve already mentioned.

If you still were a Mac user you didn’t have to spend money to get back features. You could just have kept your Intel Mac Mini for 32-bit games free of charge. You said your iGPU was weak for new games and your drive full so you would have bought a new Mac anyway. Apple still sold iMac with macOS Mojave pre-installed with Radeon Pro 580X/Vega 48 in 2019. You bought a PC but still either way it wouldn’t cost you anything to play 32-bit games on Mac. If you usually had only 20-30GB free space you needed more storage sooner or later even if you had a PC. So it didn’t have much to do with Apple’s ”crummy drives”. You knew what you bought and either had underestimated your needs or your needs had grown over time. A Mac Mini is also a desktop computer. You didn’t have to ”constantly truck an external drive around”. Today you can even buy a 512GB compact flash drive with 400MB/s write speed for $35 for your games.

It’s true that porting old games to 64 bit can meet hurdles because of old middleware but the number of old games being updated to 64 bit in spite of middleware or still being playable free of charge is far greater than you want to admit. PCGamingWiki lists 727 32-bit only games but many of them can run on PlayOnMac or VMware. PlayOnMac lists hundreds of old games and VMW can run DX9-DX11 so even the majority of retro games should work. I myself finished Deus Ex HR in VMW. I can play other games too like Batman Arkham Asylum, The Walking Dead, The Wolf Among Us, Lost planet 3 and Wolfenstein: The New Order and many more in VMW. Then as I mentioned there are hundreds of Mac Source Ports. We have also DOSBox, ScummVM and emulators. All these solutions are free. PCGamingWiki also lists 242 games with both 32-bit and 64-bit ports and many 32-bits games have now only 64-bit ports and even native Apple Silicon ports.

Even that Bink video you mentioned as middleware got updated to 64-bit macOS (Bink 1-2) already in 2013, six years before Apple dropped its support for 32 bit. They also added ARM64 support in Jan 2021, just 2 months after the first M1 Macs were released. Epic also bought Rad Game Tools and Bink in Jan 2021. Speaking of game engines let’s not forget all the games made with Unreal and Unity. Both engines have had Mac support since the first release, Unreal since 1995 and Unity since 2005. Unity added 64 bit support for Mac already in version 4.2 in 2013. Unreal added ARM64 support already in 2014/2015 in version 4.6 before Catalina. With these engines it was easier to convert old 32-bit projects to 64-bit because the developers didn’t have to do all the work. There’s even a guide to ”How to port Windows, Linux and 32-bits macOS Unity games to run on 64-bits macOS”.

I don’t know where you get ”you still seem to be thinking volume of crap asset flips is better than quality” from. First you say there are thousands of 32-bit games people play but Mac users can’t today but when I list different solutions for playing hundreds, or perhaps even thousands such games you suddenly label those precious games everybody wants to play but can’t as ”crap”? You mentioned Half-life and Quake 3 which both have source ports. The reason I mentioned the number (1,353) of released Mac games 1997-2013 was to show that there weren’t ”thousands” of classic games released for Mac during those 17 years. After that engines like Unity and Unreal already had added support for 64 bit years before Catalina in 2013-2014. So if most of the old games on Steam are ”crap” anyway the amount of good quality games should be even smaller and with all the free solutions for playing the most popular old games the need of those few game enthusiasts should be covered, shouldn’t it? That’s why many old popular quality games were updated to 64 bit by developers like Feral and Aspyr.

I’m not sure what ”cult mentality” has to do with the subject either. So just because people disagree with you they’re part of the Apple cult? Even if everyone agreed with you it wouldn’t change the situation. Isn’t it cult mentality too to think that the developers shouldn’t have to do anything and Apple is the only one who needs to do all the work and has to change its entire SW/HW strategy to fulfill the needs of a fraction of 1.41% of Mac gamers who can’t play a small part of old 32-bit Mac games for free? How many times have you seen actual Mac gamers complain about the subject here on MR? I can only recall a few times during the past years when people asked for help to make things work. All other times the ”complaints” have come from Windows/Linux/Steam Deck gamers.

Another mistake is to compare Apple and macOS directly to Microsoft and Windows. There is more to the story than Apple just being cheap, easily being able to keep 32 bit support and ”poor choices”. I’ve already talked about the very small Mac user base on Steam compared to Windows, the fraction of those users playing 32-bit games and the even smaller portion of 32-bit games that can’t be played with different solutions on Mac. Another reason for Microsoft maintaining 32-bit support is all those major customers and large corporations that pay big license/support money for their old expensive systems they still use. Apple doesn’t have that kind of customer base as ”consumer focused” company. That’s also the reason why they have been able to adopt and implement new tech in their products faster. There are also technical differences between macOS/iOS and Windows that resulted in Apple’s decision.

You could blame iPhone for the lack of 32-bit support. 5S with A7 was the first 64-bit iDevice and iOS 7 the first 64-bit iOS in 2013. To run 32-bit legacy apps iOS had to load a 32-bit subsystem before the app could actually run on the 64-bit OS. That affected the battery, performance and the memory. iOS had already more users than Mac in 2013 and when Apple announced they would drop support for 32 bit on Mac in 2017 iOS had almost 3x larger market share. It wouldn’t make much sense based on the number of users to drop 32 bit support on iOS but keep it on Mac. It was a part of their long-term plan to bring iOS and macOS closer together and use Apple Silicon in Macs 2020, a year after Catalina. Still they gave Mac two more years compared to iOS which dropped its support already in 2017. On the PC side Windows 7 64 bit overtook XP 32 bit on Steam for the first time in 2010. In 2015 only about 12% used Windows 32 bit.

Another reason was Metal. Apple wanted its own modern graphics API and released in 2014 it was 64 bit only, never intended for 32 bit. Many iOS/macOS developers understand and even agree with Apple’s decision. There is an excellent tech article by Martin Pilkington that explains the technical issues in macOS that lead to Apple’s decision. Here are some quotes:

”There are arguably more important reasons to Apple for dropping 32 bit on the Mac. They don't actually have much to do with 32 bit itself, but more with decisions that were made in 2007 when 64 bit was finalised. When Apple introduced 64 bit with Mac OS X 10.5, they also introduced Objective-C 2.0. Part of this was a new and improved runtime, designed to fix problems with the old runtime. Unfortunately, these fixes were not compatible with existing apps, so they made the decision to only make this runtime available in 64 bit. However, this meant the (now) legacy runtime would have to stick around as long as 32 bit apps existed.”

”One of the problems this new runtime fixed is quite an important one: fragile ivars. The behaviour of the legacy runtime effectively means that Apple can never update their existing objects with new ivars without breaking existing apps. In reality they have found ways around this but they prove very difficult to do, which reduces the time they could spend on new features and bug fixes. Indeed, the difficulty of having to support the legacy runtime has very likely contributed to some APIs on iOS (which has only ever used the new runtime) not making it back to the Mac.”

”While the fragile ivar problem is a big part of the desire to drop 32 bit, it's representative of a bigger issue Apple has been hoping to fix. They have a lot of legacy cruft in their OS. The Carbon APIs have been deprecated for many years, having never been migrated to 64 bit, but they still need to exist for 32 bit apps. Some of those APIs can date back to the original Mac. There are many other APIs that were deprecated with 64 bit in a similar situation with many workarounds in their code to continue supporting them. The problem with these APIs is that as fewer and fewer developers use them, there are fewer and fewer people to notice any bugs, and in particular any potential security flaws. There are also fewer resources inside Apple to invest in maintaining these APIs to fix any such flaws.”

”The potential switch to ARM also plays into this, as none of these older technologies have ever existed on ARM. Now, Apple could have held off on dropping 32 bit until ARM forced their hand, it would certainly have made it easier for people to understand the reasons. However, it would have meant holding macOS back for even longer.”

”Backwards compatibility ultimately has a cost. It's a cost in maintaining older technologies. It's a cost in slowing down newer technologies. It's a cost in increased surface area for attacks. There is no right answer as to how much you should incur those costs as a developer. Microsoft has gone opted to suck up the costs and provide extensive backwards compatibility, seeing the benefits it brings as more valuable than these costs. Apple takes a more middle ground approach, maintaining backwards compatibility to a point, but eventually always favouring periodically cleaning out dated technology to keep them moving forward.”

While it can seem that Apple doesn't care about backwards compatibility at all, they spend a lot of time weighing up the pros and cons before dropping support for anything. It's also interesting in how much effort they do put into backward compatibility given the large sweeping changes they have undergone the past 30 years, even if that compatibility is only ever temporary.”

You seem to rather focus on old problems than new solutions. More than 7 years have passed since WWDC 2017 and although the problem and confusion was for sure bigger back then that’s not the case after all these years with the solutions I’ve mentioned. Yes, there are always games you can’t play for free but at the same time there are few Mac gamers playing those games too. People couldn’t play their PS3 games on PS4 either. Some people think it’s a fail if Mac doesn’t get new games, some think it’s a fail if it doesn’t have old games, some think it shouldn’t even get any games because nobody games on Mac, the market share is too small and not profitable and Macs are expensive, non-upgradable and non-serviceable. Everybody has an opinion but Apple must draw the line somewhere. The question is where? At 10,000 CS players like Valve did or at potentially 2 Mac players who played Deus Ex yesterday?

The real problem people should instead worry about in the gaming world today is that 87% of all classic video games have disappeared from the market. So the question is not whether you can play an old game on Mac today but if you even will be able to play your old Windows games tomorrow.

For those who still feel that the amount of retro PC games is not enough on Mac here are two recent videos about all types of emulators for playing classic console games:


Homy, Steam has not and will not ever have all released Mac games. You do realize that before Steam launched for Mac in 2010 there was retail and shareware Mac releases for PPC and 32 bit Intel that were never on Steam? I haven't counted but I'm betting there's more than 700 that never hit Steam for Mac (e.g., Unreal Tournament 2003, Age of Empires 3, Halo Combat Evolved, The Sims 1, etc.).

No backwards compatibility has a cost too. Money and time wasted hunting for replacements to apps that no longer work, money and time wasted hunting for replacement apps because the compatible version is now some gross subscription riddled crap, money and time wasted doing solutions like buying extra drives to keep old OS versions and repair 15 year old computers because it won't work on something newer. These are all costs born by the consumer. I don't care if backwards compatibility is harder for Apple. That's their problem. They charge a premium price for their products and are almost a 4 trillion dollar company. They should be able to figure it out. Instead in Apple spaces it's made out to be the individual developers problem which is non-sensical. Why should 1000s of entities do a bunch of non-trivial non-free work because one company can't be bothered?
 
Neither your posts nor my responses were about the title of this thread. Shifting focus to make a point doesn’t change the facts I’ve been discussing. You also contradict yourself when you first say ”New Triple A games are nice”, which confirms that game developers do think it’s financially viable to make AAA games for Mac, but now you say they don’t.

The latest proof that it’s neither harder to develop for Mac nor a financial suicide is CD Projekt Red bringing Cyberpunk 2077/Phantom Liberty to Mac with advanced features like path tracing, frame generation, and built-in Spatial Audio. Other AAA titles since the release of Apple Silicon are Assassin’s Creed Shadows, Baldur’s Gate 3, Civ VII, Control Ultimate Edition, Dead Island 2, Death Stranding, Farming Simulator 25, Football Manager 2024/25, Frostpunk 2, Grid Legends, Humankind, Lies of P, No Man’s Sky, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 4 Remake, Resident Evil 7, Resident Evil Village Gold, Robocop Rogue City, Sniper Elite 4, Total War: Warhammer III and X-plane 12.
I def can tell that those titles are NOT proofs. Because how do you even know that developers WANTED to support Mac instead of PAID by Apple to support Mac? Unfortunately, most of them or all of them are latter because macOS system is not a profitable platform.

If not, how come most of them are several years late to support macOS? Even now, macOS is still proving that it's not a good platform for gaming after all.
 
I def can tell that those titles are NOT proofs. Because how do you even know that developers WANTED to support Mac instead of PAID by Apple to support Mac? Unfortunately, most of them or all of them are latter because macOS system is not a profitable platform.

If not, how come most of them are several years late to support macOS? Even now, macOS is still proving that it's not a good platform for gaming after all.

It’s quite simple to understand by looking at how the gaming industry works. To begin with there are no proofs either of Apple paying the developers for porting AAA games. The only known payment model is for Apple Arcade games where Apple pays upfront. Arcade has no AAA games, only simpler games. There are rare examples that could be considered as such, like Fantasian and Beyond A Steel Sky but none of the games I mentioned above can be found on Apple Arcade. AAA games have much larger budget and Apple would have to pay much more than for the games on Arcade but at the same time Arcade payments have been cut in recent years according to reports so it’s more unlikely Apple would pay even more for AAA games.

One more obvious proof is the fact that Cyberpunk for Mac will be released in all game stores (Mac App Store, GOG, Steam, Epic). Apple’s software marketing manager Leland Martin says ”We’re seeing titles come to both Steam and the Mac App Store, and we’re seeing games come to the Mac via Steam exclusively. It’s really up to the developer’s choice, and we help them whichever decision they make.” Cyberpunk is just one example of Mac games in different stores and not only in MAS. If Apple had paid millions for such ports there is not a chance they would let Steam, Epic or GOG take 30% of the profit and eat a piece of Apple’s pie.

A platform is either profitable or not. Later release time of games is not a sign of the platform being unprofitable. Games would never get released on unprofitable platforms because no developer wants to lose money. Games get released later all the time on different platforms like PC, consoles and Mac for different reasons. Game developers also do extensive market research before deciding to port a game, especially when the market share is much smaller on Mac and the risks are higher. Developers always prioritize the largest market with the biggest profit. When they have earned their costs and made profit they have more time and resources for other platforms if possible. It’s not about macOS not being profitable, but other platforms being MORE profitable. Just take a look at Cities: Skylines II. It was released in October 2023. The console port was supposed to be released early 2024. Because of all the problems it was delayed until October 2024 but now it’s been delayed indefinitely. One of the developers said in a video that they were considering a Mac port too but that wouldn’t happen before consoles. So no wonder Mac ports are released sometimes ”years later”.

Feral is a porting studio. Nobody pays them for bringing games to Mac all these years. They look at the sale potential of Mac games and ask the developer/publisher to get permission for porting. You can’t be remotely serious if you’re suggesting Apple has paid for porting most or all AAA Mac games the past 30 years because macOS never has been a profitable platform. There hasn’t been a more profitable time than now when Apple has complete control of its HW/SW with Apple Silicon and can offer developers a unified gaming platform on Mac, iPad and iPhone. That’s one thing they try to attract the game developers with instead of paying millions. Apple’s platform is now more console-like and easier to develop games for. Developers can also reach a wider audience with basically one port that works on different devices. With family share and universal purchase the customers are more likely to buy their games, one purchase to rule them all. That’s not something other stores can offer. That’s why some like Capcom only offer their Mac ports on MAS. Apple also offers tools and techs like Game Porting Toolkit, Metal 3 and MetalFX which have made porting easier and been used in several projects by the developers. They also work with different studios and have offered technical support and guidance for optimizing the games during the development. Some examples are Hello games/NMS, Piranha Bytes/Elex II, 4A/Metro Exodus and Larian/BG3. I’m sure Apple will help CD Projekt Red too with the new features like path tracing and frame generation. In fact 4A and Larian contacted Apple themselves for help with optimizing Metro Exodus and Baldur’s Gate 3, not the other way around.

So the vague claims about macOS not being profitable or good for gaming are just opinions like many times before. It all depends on personal preferences and kind of game. Apart from recent AAA games we’ve had many other AAA games and famous franchises before, like Alien Isolation, Bioshock trilogy, Borderlands trilogy, Deus Ex trilogy, Dying Light, Metro trilogy, Tomb Raider trilogy, Total War Saga: Troy, Total War: Warhammer 40K, XCOM 1-2 Collection to mention some. We have all new and old AA and indie titles too. Despite having only 1.61% of Steam user base macOS got over 21% of the Windows releases in 2024, not counting all the exclusive titles on MAS. At GDC 2024 in a survey by over 3,000 developers 16% said they were working on Mac projects. Of 22 games mentioned in my previous post only 7 are released ”several years later”. Most of them either have simultaneous releases or very close release dates, one or few months apart, like Farming Simulator 25, Football Manager 2024/25, Civ VII, Lies of P, Frostpunk 2, AC Shadows, Riven Remake, Myst remake, Layers of Fear, Fort Solis, X-plane 12, Baldur’s Gate 3, RE 4 Remake, Humankind and Total War: Warhammer III. So yes, you can definitely tell that these facts are proof of macOS being both profitable and good for gaming.

Finally gamers don’t care in the slightest who pays for bringing games to their platform, especially Mac gamers who always have to deal with the lack of major titles. Who cares if it’s Apple, the developers or Santa Claus? I don’t see Linux/Steam Deck players complain about devs not making Linux games or Valve paying big money to Codeweavers for Proton. They’re beyond happy to be able to play all the Windows games nobody wanted to port to Linux because it lacked profitability.

It’s quite funny that first the PC/Steam Deck player before you says ”Apple are cheap and can't be bothered. They'd rather put the burden on everyone else” for lack of support for 32-bit games but at the same time you definitely can tell Apple is paying hundreds of millions of dollars for AAA games when Mac is not a good or profitable gaming platform with only 1.61% Steam market share. Oh, the irony…
 
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Speaking of CP2077 being on the Mac App Store, have there been any 100+ GB apps on the MAS? From what I can tell CP2077 is ~103GB, and I thought the store didn't do well with such large downloads.
 
It’s quite funny that first the PC/Steam Deck player before you says ”Apple are cheap and can't be bothered. They'd rather put the burden on everyone else” for lack of support for 32-bit games but at the same time you definitely can tell Apple is paying hundreds of millions of dollars for AAA games when Mac is not a good or profitable gaming platform with only 1.61% Steam market share. Oh, the irony…
Yeah, it's almost like different people said those two things and they're very different things.
 
That's not how it works. You have to provide evidence that Apple paid them. AFAIK, such evidence was never provided.
Providing technical support is different.
Sadly, nobody believes that game developers supported Mac for no reasons. Even now, macOS is a terrible platform to bring games and the only way to bring games is to pay developers. Besides, Apple advertised AAA games which is a great evident. Oh, how come AAA games are supported on Mac while the marketshare of Mac is around 1% just from Steam? It's TOO clear that Apple paid them to support games at this moment which you guys clearly ignoring it. Let's see if any of them keep supporting games after a decade with new macOS.

And this is the truth of Mac gaming: Terribly not profitable. Is it really hard to realize the truth after all?
 
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That's why Apple isn't interesting in Mac gaming.

Apple gains way more profits from mobile gaming with less investment from iOS/iPadOS...

Apple is not investing on PC/Console games on Mac.

Apple isn't trying at a ll.

Apple isn't helping the PC/Console gaming market at all and that's the fact.

Mac is doomed since Apple is focusing on Mobile gaming

My point is Apple is not interested in Mac gaming and therefore many developers aren't making more new games and then ported to Apple Silicon Mac.

Mac gaming is abandoned market place. They only care about mobile game markets.

This is why Apple doesn't care about Mac gaming.

Apple is focusing on mobile game, not Mac game which is my point.

Apple is not even trying to expand their gaming on Mac because of their mobile market.

Apple isn't trying. That's a fact. Stop ignoring that.

Apple's true interest is the mobile gaming as they gain way more profits.

Apple is not even trying for gaming markets and this kind of move is just stupid.

Sadly, nobody believes that game developers supported Mac for no reasons. Even now, macOS is a terrible platform to bring games and the only way to bring games is to pay developers. Besides, Apple advertised AAA games which is a great evident. Oh, how come AAA games are supported on Mac while the marketshare of Mac is around 1% just from Steam? It's TOO clear that Apple paid them to support games at this moment which you guys clearly ignoring it. Let's see if any of them keep supporting games after a decade with new macOS.

And this is the truth of Mac gaming: Terribly not profitable. Is it really hard to realize the truth after all?

We all know about your hard feelings towards Apple, its products and Mac gaming. You have made it clear numerous times since you joined this forum so no surprise there. What’s interesting though is that for the past 4 years you have been trying to convince us that Apple has no interest in Mac gaming and doesn’t care at all and their only focus is mobile gaming. Now all of a sudden you’re trying to convince us that’s not the case at all and never has been and Apple indeed is pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into the developers pockets to bring games to Mac because now it’s the developers who have no interest in Mac gaming and don’t care at all and haven’t done so for the past three decades.

What’s also too clear is that you’re not looking for answers but want to continue with your anti-Mac narrative as usual. I answered your questions before but your only reaction was a laughing emoji. You’re either unaware of how the industry works or just ignoring the facts as usual. My guess is both. To prove all this you make up your own theories and call them ”facts” and ”truth”. You ignore numbers, business practices, history of Apple and gaming and simple logic.

You’re ignoring that Apple is a public company and has to keep record of all its financial transactions for the public and its shareholders. If they were paying hundreds of millions of dollars to game developers for the past three decades we would have known about it by now. It would be both illegal and a scandal to secretly pay out and hide such large amounts of costs year after year. Why would they want to keep it a secret anyway? So that PC gamers can make up conspiracy theories on a Mac forum? They and the developers announce every collaboration at events or in interviews for marketing purposes. You’re also still ignoring as I mentioned that Apple wouldn’t pay for games and let other stores take the profit. Games that Epic pays for stay exclusive 1-3 years in their store and you’re saying Apple is paying for Cyberpunk just to let every other store sell it? You don’t even listen to the words of the developers themselves when they talk about what kind of support they’ve received from Apple.

It’s as if you’ve never heard of AAA games on Mac before and it all comes as a huge surprise to you. MacOS has 1.61% share on Steam but you’re ignoring the larger number. It’s 1.61% of around 175 million monthly users, i.e. 2.8 million Mac users, only on Steam. Many studios have previous experience of porting games to Mac and don’t have to learn everything from scratch. They have a tradition and an established ”healthy” Mac user base, like the creators of EVE Online.


Many games also use Unreal Engine and Unity which makes the porting easier between platforms. Many engines have now native support for Apple Silicon and after porting the engine and the first game it becomes much easier to port more future titles, like Capcom has done. A Mac port can be cheaper too because it doesn’t have the initial high costs and the developers don’t have to do all the work again from scratch. Many game assets like images, video, audio/music/voices/effects, marketing material and more can be reused. Again that’s why the developers aim for the largest platform first to cover their investment.

You could easily say the same about Steam Deck. It has half the market share of Mac on Steam, 0.84%. So how come many games are supported and work well? It’s because Valve pays hundreds of millions to over 100 developers to work on SteamOS and other software to keep Steam Deck running. Without Valve throwing money on the project Steam Deck would be a ”terrible platform to bring games on” and ”not profitable”. So if you think Valve is doing the right thing you can’t seriously criticize Apple for allegedly doing the same thing. Developers have made Mac games since 1984 and are still doing so, especially now more than ever. Last year a record breaking number of 6,228 Mac games were released only on Steam so you can be sure we’ll see at least 60,000 more in ten years.

That news article has been discussed before. It’s a questionable article with questionable numbers! The biggest issue is that they were looking at the numbers for less than two weeks. There are two sources used in the original article but we only see the worst one. The other source is Appmagic with much higher numbers. There is too much difference between the numbers to have statistical significance. So games like Resident Evil 4 and Village with 710,000-817,000 downloads are flops and had only 11,570-26,266 buyers? AC Mirage had 279,000 downloads in less than two weeks and it’s a flop and had 4,420 buyers? They compare that to 1.9 million downloads for AC Rebellion, a free mobile game that could be played on ordinary iPhones like 4-6. Of course a $50 game that can only be played on top iPhone models and iPads has fewer downloads. Give it 6 months or so like RE games before making conclusions. Is an expensive sports car a flop because only few buy it at high price? Who knows Ubisoft sales goal with such a title and strategy? Why does the writer of the article believes Mirage must sell 1.9 million copies in just two weeks to be successful? Until somebody who actually has worked on these projects at/with Capcom, Kojima Productions, Ubisoft or Apple provides facts or insights you should take such speculations with a large grain of salt.

Capcom said in a press release that RE Village’s release on new devices like iPhone has increased sales. The article says ”those ports have bombed” but it also says ”Apple is likely paying developers like Ubisoft and Capcom to port these games to iPhone knowing they are doomed to fail.” So if Apple is paying what difference does it really make if the sales bomb or not? Apple wants the games and pays for them for different reasons. Microsoft still loses up to $200 on every sold Xbox after 23 years apparently so Apple has still a few years left to test the waters. Epic’s loss for its game store will reach $965 million by 2027.

Everybody says Apple has the money and should pay so here you are. If that’s the case the devs haven’t lost anything. On the contrary they make some revenue too for free. In the end does it even matter? Even if only one person has bought the games Apple seems to be supposedly willing to pay for more games every year. People say they rather have many buggy PC games than fewer Mac games. Then I too rather have more games sponsored by Apple than none. Isn’t that the same thing all the experts on Apple’s gaming strategy complain about all the time? That Apple should buy and pay for this and that? Besides they used sale prices in their estimate. The normal prices are higher which means even fewer buyers but higher download rate per buyer which makes less sense. Why would each buyer download a game 60-100 times? Is it a matter of huge families with huge number of apple devices using family sharing and universal purchase? Doesn’t make sense.
 
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Good news, everyone!

Steam Hardware Survey now says Apple Silicon accounts for ... checks notes ... 112%* 😂

*on macOS
 
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And nobody has ever shown that the reason was money directly sent from Apple.
Nobody believes that macOS is profitable for gaming even now. If not, tell me how many games especially AAA games became available on day 1 along with PC and console platform? What about constant supports which BG3 lacks?

I doubt it at this point.
 
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Nobody believes sunny5 doesn't believe that macOS is profitable for gaming even now. If not, tell me how many games especially AAA games became available on day 1 along with PC and console platform? What about constant supports which BG3 lacks?

I doubt it at this point.

Of 22 games mentioned in my previous post only 7 are released ”several years later”. Most of them either have simultaneous releases or very close release dates, one or few months apart, like Farming Simulator 25, Football Manager 2024/25, Civ VII, Lies of P, Frostpunk 2, AC Shadows, Riven Remake, Myst remake, Layers of Fear, Fort Solis, X-plane 12, Baldur’s Gate 3, RE 4 Remake, Humankind and Total War: Warhammer III. So yes, you can definitely tell that these facts are proof of macOS being both profitable and good for gaming.

A platform is either profitable or not. Later release time of games is not a sign of the platform being unprofitable. Games would never get released on unprofitable platforms because no developer wants to lose money. Games get released later all the time on different platforms like PC, consoles and Mac for different reasons. Game developers also do extensive market research before deciding to port a game, especially when the market share is much smaller on Mac and the risks are higher. Developers always prioritize the largest market with the biggest profit. When they have earned their costs and made profit they have more time and resources for other platforms if possible. It’s not about macOS not being profitable, but other platforms being MORE profitable. Just take a look at Cities: Skylines II. It was released in October 2023. The console port was supposed to be released early 2024. Because of all the problems it was delayed until October 2024 but now it’s been delayed indefinitely. One of the developers said in a video that they were considering a Mac port too but that wouldn’t happen before consoles. So no wonder Mac ports are released sometimes ”years later”.

I fixed that for you. This has already been all explained to you but you keep showing a lack of understanding of gaming business despite previous answers. Your myths have been debunked but you keep repeating the same narrative because you simply don’t seem to have any logical answers. If you really want to know how many indie/AA/AAA games have had day-and-date release on Mac you can visit Wikipedia, Steamdb and news articles and find out for yourself. We’re not going to run pointless errands for you when you keep repeating the same agenda but there are literally thousands of games that have simultaneous release on Mac, especially indie and AA.

macOS is more profitable for gaming now than ever and one safe sign is exactly the fact that more AAA games have simultaneous release on Mac together with other platforms. I answered this exact question just recently but since you don’t seem to be interested in answers you missed it again. Some examples are Lies of P, Frostpunk 2, Farming Simulator 25, Football Manager 2024/25, Riven Remake, Myst remake, Layers of Fear and X-plane. Baldur’s Gate 3 was released one month later, Humankind and Total War: Warhammer III three months later and RE 4 Remake 9 months later. The upcoming Civ VII and Assassin’s Creed Shadows will have day-and-date release on Mac.

Baldur’s Gate 3 was released in early access at the same time for macOS and Windows in October 2020. The development took three years. If it wasn’t profitable Larian would have cancelled the Mac development any time during those years but they kept going and released it because it is profitable. Regardless of what you believe they and other developers are the only ones who know their market best and can decide if it’s profitable or not after years of experience of Mac game development. The Mac version is as updated as the other platforms. The latest patch 7 was released for all platforms. They’re now working on patch 8 which will add cross-play for all platforms, Mac included.
 
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I fixed that for you. This has already been all explained to you but you keep showing a lack of understanding of gaming business despite previous answers. Your myths have been debunked but you keep repeating the same narrative because you simply don’t seem to have any logical answers. If you really want to know how many indie/AA/AAA games have had day-and-date release on Mac you can visit Wikipedia, Steamdb and news articles and find out for yourself. We’re not going to run pointless errands for you when you keep repeating the same agenda but there are literally thousands of games that have simultaneous release on Mac, especially indie and AA.

macOS is more profitable for gaming now than ever and one safe sign is exactly the fact that more AAA games have simultaneous release on Mac together with other platforms. I answered this exact question just recently but since you don’t seem to be interested in answers you missed it again. Some examples are Lies of P, Frostpunk 2, Farming Simulator 25, Football Manager 2024/25, Riven Remake, Myst remake, Layers of Fear and X-plane. Baldur’s Gate 3 was released one month later, Humankind and Total War: Warhammer III three months later and RE 4 Remake 9 months later. The upcoming Civ VII and Assassin’s Creed Shadows will have day-and-date release on Mac.

Baldur’s Gate 3 was released in early access at the same time for macOS and Windows in October 2020. The development took three years. If it wasn’t profitable Larian would have cancelled the Mac development any time during those years but they kept going and released it because it is profitable. Regardless of what you believe they and other developers are the only ones who know their market best and can decide if it’s profitable or not after years of experience of Mac game development. The Mac version is as updated as the other platforms. The latest patch 7 was released for all platforms. They’re now working on patch 8 which will add cross-play for all platforms, Mac included.
For BG3 Larian has kept content the same, but game features (namely FSR2/MetalFX) are missing from the macOS version.
 
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From 2023-


Mac vs. PC Gaming: Verdict​

The battle between Mac and PC gaming remains simple to summarize. PC gaming is better, period.

PC gamers can enjoy a wider variety of hardware and games, and can purchase them at lower prices. There’s entire genres of games, like VR games and flight simulators, that have little or no community on the Mac. The hardware and software support just isn’t there.

Mac gaming is rapidly improving, however, and now presents a viable alternative to the PC for some gamers. There’s fewer games, and fewer peripherals, but some popular titles are now officially supported on the Mac, and high-end Mac hardware can play compatible games at smooth, fluid framerates.

PC gaming is the clear victor and the preferred platform for most gamers—but if you’re happy to stick with a more limited library, or simply prefer the look and feel or MacOS, you’ll find plenty to keep you entertained.
 
It’s best imo, when debating the merits of Mac vs PC gaming to stick to the realities of the market place, and the prevalent manner in which video games are created. If you want to compare the two platforms from a gaming perspective, the simple question can be asked, what % of AAA games make it to the Mac? 🤔 As a gaming platform a big issue is the Mac price tag as compared to a gaming PC.
 
What happened here with January Steam Hardware Survey? Mass migration?

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Nah, the numbers are busted for the % change numbers are just busted. Look at the Windows numbers for confirmation.
Yeah, December had some negative percentages, and some >100%, causing the percentage point change between Dec & Jan to be screwy.
 
Windows doesn't show that drastic of a change at +/- <1% that could be attributed to people offloading GPUs for new.

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DX12 Systems is busted though. As is the mixed Video Card Description.
Yeah, his comparison is flawed. He's comparing the all-card list for Apple with the DX12 list for Windows. If you look at the all-card list for Windows, you'll see they're all negative as well, same as Apple's, indicating both are screwed up:
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That's repeating what I said regarding Windows +/- <1% but doesn't explain the delta difference between that vs -10% and not so much the color.
 
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As I already mentioned, the numbers from December are screwed up:
Yeah, December had some negative percentages, and some >100%, causing the percentage point change between Dec & Jan to be screwy.

For instance, here it says that, in December 2024, DirectX 12 GPU's constituted 112.34% of all PC cards, while the DirectX 8 and below constituted -13.60%. These are obviously impossible figures, and thus any percent changes between December and January that are based on such nonsensical numbers will likewise be nonsense.

This indicates there is something wrong with the their calculations, and that any %changes for January that don't make sense are most likely erroneous and should not be taken seriously.
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