In a quandary: M1 Mac Mini, or base model 2013 Mac Pro?

[PinkyMacGodess]

I was looking at the Mac Mini, and switched to a local reseller and they have a (several?) base model quad-core 'trash can' Mac Pros. The price difference is only $100.

Comments on those pros have run from 'GREAT!' to 'Bought 3 and they are all dead!'.

Sure, tech gets old. I'm just tied up with the idea of owning The Most Incredible Design For A Mac Since The Cube, and getting the first Apple silicone system in the house. I could replace my Mac Pro with it, but would need to get an array or other large drive(s) to get all of the stuff to it and have it accessible. Yeah the trash can wouldn't actually solve many of my issues currently, but it would scratch an itch, and still might end up having to get a Mini later on. Hmm...

Yeah, I know. I have a collection of neurons that are screaming 'BUY IT!!!'. But having to recap or deal with age related technological issues wouldn't be fun. Hmm... Maybe sell my existing Mac Pro? Decisions decisions...

There certainly were tradeoffs with the trash can. Can the SSD be upgraded (easily) in them?

 

[jdb8167]

The M1 Mac mini is going to be faster than the 2013 MP. My M1 MacBook Air is twice the speed of my 6 core/12 thread 2013 MP.

Edit: The SSD can be upgraded but you need an adapter or an SSD designed for the MP. It isn’t a standard M.2 connection. OWC sells compatible 2 TB SSD.

 

[darngooddesign]

Nothing wrong with getting the MP if you really like its design, but even the base Mini is faster. Get the 16GB RAM version and an external drive.

 

[jdb8167]

Nothing wrong with getting the MP if you really like its design, but even the base Mini is faster. Get the 16GB RAM version and an external drive.

Unless you really need 32 or 64 GB I guess.

 

[darngooddesign]

Unless you really need 32 or 64 GB I guess.

Sure, but if your work requires that much RAM, you're not buying a 2013 computer to do it on. There are better and faster Macs, Intel and AS, which will give you that much RAM. That being said, it sounds like Pinky is considering the MP because they really like the computer's design, rather than its pure performance.

 

[Mikael H]

I'm just tied up with the idea of owning The Most Incredible Design For A Mac Since The Cube,

If you can afford one computer to look at and one to use, it’s a no-brainer: get both. Put the Mac Pro on the desk without plugging it in, and actually use the Mini (or Studio, if you need more grunt).

If you simply need a new computer, don’t get one that’s a decade old.

 

[jdb8167]

If you simply need a new computer, don’t get one that’s a decade old.

Believe it or not my 2013 Mac Pro is still very usable in 2022. I bought it in the summer of 2014 and later upgraded it to 64 GB RAM for use with VMs. I just worked on a project where I used it to run an ancient version of CentOS Linux in a VM and as my main development environment. Worked like a champ.

Of course you are right and no one should buy one today unless your needs are pretty specific and odd.

 

[Mikael H]

Believe it or not my 2013 Mac Pro is still very usable in 2022.

I know - even my MacBook Pro from 2013 was completely usable for my needs except for a battery issue until I switched it out last autumn - but as we seem to agree, such an old computer is not a good choice for production use, especially from the perspective that it either already is or may become unsupported any second now, meaning no new security updates and no official spare parts.

 

[Martyimac]

If you are doing mundane things, email, websurfing, etc. the 3013 MP is fine. I know if I hadn't killed mine I would still be using it.

If you plan on ANYTHING else, go with the mini and get the RAM upgrade and as big an SSD as you can afford.

 

[jdb8167]

I know - even my MacBook Pro from 2013 was completely usable for my needs except for a battery issue until I switched it out last autumn - but as we seem to agree, such an old computer is not a good choice for production use, especially from the perspective that it either already is or may become unsupported any second now, meaning no new security updates and no official spare parts.

I expect that the 2013 Mac Pro will be supported for the upcoming MacOS version. Apple was still selling it in 2019. I don’t expect it to get any MacOS updates except security after this year though.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

I was looking at the Mac Mini, and switched to a local reseller and they have a (several?) base model quad-core 'trash can' Mac Pros. The price difference is only $100.

Comments on those pros have run from 'GREAT!' to 'Bought 3 and they are all dead!'.

Sure, tech gets old. I'm just tied up with the idea of owning The Most Incredible Design For A Mac Since The Cube, and getting the first Apple silicone system in the house. I could replace my Mac Pro with it, but would need to get an array or other large drive(s) to get all of the stuff to it and have it accessible. Yeah the trash can wouldn't actually solve many of my issues currently, but it would scratch an itch, and still might end up having to get a Mini later on. Hmm...

Yeah, I know. I have a collection of neurons that are screaming 'BUY IT!!!'. But having to recap or deal with age related technological issues wouldn't be fun. Hmm... Maybe sell my existing Mac Pro? Decisions decisions...

There certainly were tradeoffs with the trash can. Can the SSD be upgraded (easily) in them?

Buying an almost 10 year old computer is never a good choice unless it's your only one and the machine can run the latest OS update and is extremely cheap.

And I wouldn't even do it if you can patch it to run later-than-supported MacOSs.

Depending on your budget, you should get a base M1 mini if you're just a casual user. Get M1 mini with 16GB RAM and at least 512GB internal SSD if you're more serious but still budget conscious. And then opt for a Mac Studio if you have a much bigger budget. Or one of the new 16" M1 MBP, if it has to be portable.

-There are no guarantees for how long Apple supports any Intel product or how third party devs are going to treat Intel Macs once they have transitioned to Apple Silicon. I wouldn't do it.

 

[eicca]

I vote M1. I own both a 2010 Mac Pro with upgrades and an M1 Air.

Within minutes of using the Air I was contemplating replacing the Mac Pro with an M1 Mini or Studio.
(I ultimately will not simply because of cost and migration effort, but the M1s are infinitely superior machines)

 

[iObama]

The only Intel Mac I would remotely consider purchasing at this point are the 2020 27" iMac or the 2019 Mac Pro, and even those would be a tough, tough sell against any M1 machine.

Go with the mini. You will absolutely not be disappointed.

 

[darkpaw]

As someone who has a 1TB/16GB M1 Mac mini and a 1TB/16GB 2013 Mac Pro, the Mini runs rings around the MP so much that the MP now just sits on the desk looking gorgeous.

Go with the M1 Mac mini.

 

[goldpin]

Would be wonderful for some enterprising soul to design and build a kit to put the innards of an Apple Silicon Mac Mini or Mac Studio into the 2013 Mac Pro.

 

[vddobrev]

I was looking at the Mac Mini, and switched to a local reseller and they have a (several?) base model quad-core 'trash can' Mac Pros. The price difference is only $100.

Comments on those pros have run from 'GREAT!' to 'Bought 3 and they are all dead!'.

Sure, tech gets old. I'm just tied up with the idea of owning The Most Incredible Design For A Mac Since The Cube, and getting the first Apple silicone system in the house. I could replace my Mac Pro with it, but would need to get an array or other large drive(s) to get all of the stuff to it and have it accessible. Yeah the trash can wouldn't actually solve many of my issues currently, but it would scratch an itch, and still might end up having to get a Mini later on. Hmm...

Yeah, I know. I have a collection of neurons that are screaming 'BUY IT!!!'. But having to recap or deal with age related technological issues wouldn't be fun. Hmm... Maybe sell my existing Mac Pro? Decisions decisions...

There certainly were tradeoffs with the trash can. Can the SSD be upgraded (easily) in them?

Very easy choice - do you need more than 16GB RAM; Do you need to run boot camp Windows? Then get the MP6,1 - but the base model does not come with 32GB RAM, and you will have to upgrade it. If you can get by 16GB by all means get the M1 mini. I have both, a 16GB M1 mini and a MP6,1 but not the base - 6core, 32GB, 1TB SSD. While the M1 can get me in almost all cases, I still use my MP6,1 for projects that need RAM and/or Windows.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I do have an old BIG BOX Mac Pro, as I said, and it's still usable. Somewhat. I used it to rip DVDs and it was a workhorse. Did amazing work. My IMP would do more, but the MP was 'set it and forget it', and it just worked.

Yeah, the trash can would be an impulse (long unfulfilled impulse) decision, but I can see the M1 Mini being a capable tool, maybe more so than my IMP which would be embarrassing. I'll have to look if they have the 16G, and how much, if available, the 1TB would be. Paying more than the MP would sting a little, but...

Thanks for all the comments. In a perfect world...

But I STILL WANT A TRASH CAN! Maybe I can get one DOA with a perfect case, and use the case for 'office art'. It might have sucks on some levels, but introducing it, with a straight face, was impressive. Like the 'Cube'. Loved the Cube look, but finding out about the cracking case was a downer.

 

[Argoduck]

I bought the base model 2013 MP years ago and - about 2-3 years ago - found it getting a bit long in the tooth even after upgrading to 32GB memory.

At that time I upgraded to a 1TB SSD (easy) and replaced the 4 core processor with the 8 core (nerve racking but doable with care and patience), both from OWC. I also upgraded memory to 64GB (very easy). I run Xcode and write apps that execute intensive computations including simulations with sometimes millions of multi-dimensional nodes with complex interactions.

The revised MP performs ‘quite well’ in Xcode overall, though with moderately deep SwiftUI schemas performance of the IDE sags enough to be frustrating at times.

As for the simulations…these take from hours to a day or more. It is to the MP’s credit that it remains useable while crunching these and completes these tasks without fail, which is more than can be said for an earlier windows machine.

Generally, I would describe the MP as very acceptable - even snappy - for general use.

However, it’s been obvious to me that for continued serious use the MP must to replaced. Having a desktop and multi-monitor requirement, the ‘right’ M1 Mac only materialized for me recently (the Studio Ultra).

Had my only (main) need been Xcode based, I would have jumped on any form of M1 in an instant, expecting much snappier response within the IDE when spending hours in my development workflow.

I get your reaction to the 2013 MP. I love mine. I love its look (contentious I know) and I love that it‘s consistently quiet even under high load and doesn’t throttle in most scenarios. Somehow the original 4 core version outperformed the windows machine it replaced when - on paper - it should have lagged. That just shows the advantage of having a company control their ‘stack’ all the way from hardware to OS.

But now this company has even more control over this stack! Their M-based machines are the most truly Apple we have seen in many, many years.

I don’t have advice about what you should do - that’s up to you. I offer the above thoughts as they may help with your decision process even though our use cases may be quite different.

One final thought: at this point I fully intend to keep my MP alongside the studio, which perhaps speaks to another’s suggestion "you get both" ? However, I do know it will be so hopelessly outclassed - by factors of 2 had I got a base M1 right up to about 7 in the case of the Ultra - that I suspect it will get redeployed very quickly, perhaps honorably crunching away at lighter tasks elsewhere in my study…

 

[theorist9]

If your motivation to get the Trash Can is that you've always wanted one, that's just a personal desire that I can't speak to.

But if your motivation is to get a powerful older machine instead of an entry-level newer one, and you could also benefit from a 27" 5k Retina display, then I think the better choice would be a 27" 2019 iMac. Unlike with the 2020 (which has upgradeable RAM but not SSD), you can get a min-spec one (Fusion drive or small SSD and low RAM) for about the same price as a Mini, and upgrade both (plus you get the display!)

You can upgrade both SSD and RAM easily, and for relatively little $—a top-end 2 TB SSD is ~$250*, and 128 GB RAM is ~$400. With Apple Silicon, the only way you can get that much RAM is to buy an Ultra; plus you're paying ~$1600 for the RAM alone; yes, the Ultra is a different beast, with a different type of integrated RAM, and far more processing power (which you may or may not need). But still: With Apple Silicon, the minimum you'd need to pay to get a 2 TB SSD, 128 GB RAM, and a 5k display is $5200+$1600=$6800.

Also, if you like lots of monitors, the M1 is limited to two. But with the iMac you can drive two 4k's plus the iMac's own 5k.

*The SSD upgrade requires opening the machine, but that can be done for ~$100 by an Apple Authorized Service Center.

 

[darngooddesign]

I do have an old BIG BOX Mac Pro, as I said, and it's still usable. Somewhat. I used it to rip DVDs and it was a workhorse. Did amazing work. My IMP would do more, but the MP was 'set it and forget it', and it just worked.

Yeah, the trash can would be an impulse (long unfulfilled impulse) decision, but I can see the M1 Mini being a capable tool, maybe more so than my IMP oops which would be embarrassing. I'll have to look if they have the 16G, and how much, if available, the 1T?B would be. Paying more than the MP would sting a little, but...

Thanks for all the comments. In a perfect world...

But I STILL WANT A TRASH CAN! Maybe I can get one DOA with a perfect case, and use the case for 'office art'. It might have sucks on some levels, but introducing it, with a straight face, was impressive. Like the 'Cube'. Loved the Cube look, but finding out about the cracking case was a downer.

I still think about buying 12" PB or TiBook, both of which I owned in the past, but I would probably buy the final boss versions, with max RAM because those upgrades are hard to find now and in most cases it's cheaper to buy them with the computers. Other people feel the same way about the lamp iMac (I bought one of those, but made sure the one I bought had the Apple speakers, as a music player for my bedroom) and G4 Cube so go for it.

I found an upgrade guide which should tell you what to try get with the computer and what you can upgrade later.

The Definitive Trashcan Mac Pro 6.1 (Late 2013) Upgrade Guide

A guide with every conceivable Mac Pro 2013 upgrade, from SSD hacks, CPU upgrades, to eGPUs.

blog.greggant.com

I think comments are centered around the MP being a main work computer, rather than office art.

Maybe hang a small framed "Can't innovate my ass!" needlepoint over it. ?

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Short of "I want one!!11!!" I don't see any compelling reasons to buy a trash can, short of IO ports or some specific random Intel-CPU requiring software. It is slower, software will soon be outdated and thus can't run on it, it uses way more power (Save up for a second M# Mac quicker!), takes up more space. It also needs to be polished more often, so you need to shelve out 20$ for an Apple Cloth!

 

[pshufd]

Get an M1-based Mac Pro when they come out. I'm sure that the design, power and longevity will be fantastic. I personally don't need more than a base M1 (though I have an M1 Pro MacBook Pro), but I understand that lots of other people do.

 

[Stene]

Owner of a upgraded 2013 MP (128 GB RAM, 12 core, 2 TB SSD) which functions both as a server for my developed systems and as a workstation for my wife. Before the desktop M1 Max and Ultra MP would still be a good option depending on use-case depending on needs for IO and upgradability of disk and memory. The Xeons are built for continuous, high load use which I appreciate. The ability to run Windows, Linux etc. with good performance and maintained compatibility is a great plus...

 

[Bug-Creator]

Get an M1-based Mac Pro when they come out.

OP is cross shopping between a M1 Mini (no specs mentioned) and an old MPro for 100$ more. I don't think bringing up something that will be 10x the price (if not more) is really helpful.

 

[GMShadow]

The GPUs in the trash can loved to die (though I think it was confined to one of the three types - maybe the D500 variants).

I definitely get the appeal of owning one, but if you're actually planning to seriously use the machine, I'd look more at the Mini, and possibly hold out for the M2 Mini, which should be soon. Even if the upgrades don't appeal to you you'll be able to get an M1 unit cheaper after the fact.