Intel & AMD MacBook Pro had better monitor support than M-Series MacBooks

[unrigestered]

a lot of this is not cost cutting though, it is simply to separate their products and get more money from people who need more features.
this is not new.
not sure how it is now, but back in the Photoshop days before CS, etc. the inexpensive Photoshop Elements that went for maybe $80 or so instead of the ca. $1000 for the fully featured Photoshop flagship, was actually the very same product that just had many features locked away or gimped for the consumer version.
If you knew what you were doing, you could easily unlock the full Photoshop by some alternations in some of it's config files.

 

[JPack]

Yeah forcing people to go with the M1 Pro which is ridiculous in my book, why don't they let M2 users connect to dual 1080p & 1440p.

With M1, there was a 5% chance it was because Apple had to get the chip out the door. With M2, it became 0% and it’s clear what the reason is.

Everyone uses dual monitors. My local Costco has been dual packs of 24-inch for at least the past two years. Every decent dock has at least two DP out.

 

[bobcomer]

With M1, there was a 5% chance it was because Apple had to get the chip out the door. With M2, it became 0% and it’s clear what the reason is.

Everyone uses dual monitors. My local Costco has been dual packs of 24-inch for at least the past two years. Every decent dock has at least two DP out.

I wouldn't say everyone uses more than 1 monitor, but more and more people do. I do find it odd that the M2 has that limitation...

 

[bcortens]

With M1, there was a 5% chance it was because Apple had to get the chip out the door. With M2, it became 0% and it’s clear what the reason is.

Everyone uses dual monitors. My local Costco has been dual packs of 24-inch for at least the past two years. Every decent dock has at least two DP out.

They really don’t, if I look at my coworkers - at a company that does predominantly coding - only a few people use more than 1 external monitor. I expect most people only use their laptops monitor, then a small group that use 1 external monitor and then an even small vocal minority that use more than 1 external monitor…

I don’t know how hard it would be for Apple to support more than 1 external display on the M(n) series, if is relatively easy they should do it just to make the people who actually need multiple monitors happy (since they are so loud).

 

[JPack]

They really don’t, if I look at my coworkers - at a company that does predominantly coding - only a few people use more than 1 external monitor. I expect most people only use their laptops monitor, then a small group that use 1 external monitor and then an even small vocal minority that use more than 1 external monitor…

I don’t know how hard it would be for Apple to support more than 1 external display on the M(n) series, if is relatively easy they should do it just to make the people who actually need multiple monitors happy (since they are so loud).

Probably comes down to the organization and available resources. In my org, even the receptionist has a pair of monitors, and it's been like that for at least 5 years. Since the pandemic, everyone has been issued a notebook and hotdesks. How do you work with less than two monitors at eye level?

A typical 24-inch Dell monitor is $150 a piece. That's less than the cost of an office chair, but offers much more productivity for the user. It's a no-brainer for office managers to buy that.

If 2 external monitors weren't so ubiquitous, why would Apple add that feature to MacBook Air in 2018? They only took it away with M1. What happened? It is likely people are running fewer monitors today?

 

[bcortens]

Probably comes down to the organization and available resources. In my org, even the receptionist has a pair of monitors, and it's been like that for at least 5 years. Since the pandemic, everyone has been issued a notebook and hotdesks. How do you work with less than two monitors at eye level?

A typical 24-inch Dell monitor is $150 a piece. That's less than the cost of an office chair, but offers much more productivity for the user. It's a no-brainer for office managers to buy that.

If 2 external monitors weren't so ubiquitous, why would Apple add that feature to MacBook Air in 2018? They only took it away with M1. What happened? It is likely people are running fewer monitors today?

I’m fairly certain we could request second monitors if we wished. I have a 27” ultra fine 5K and whiles I sometimes wish it was a bit larger I don’t want a second display. Generally I think people both overestimate the usefulness of second monitors in terms of efficiency, and in terms of demand.

I know there are jobs where a second monitor matters but I don’t think it’s as many as people believe.

Productivity as measured how? There are often times when i feel that my single iPad Pro screen is more productive than a large desktop display.

I’d love to see long term studies to see if second screens increase measured tasks completed or just perception of task efficiency.

They added it because it came with the chip they were using. They took it away because they didn’t care to invest the silicon in providing the feature… I think if it is not difficult to offer they should add more display outputs, if the silicon trade off is better spent elsewhere they shouldn’t bother.

 

[wyrdness]

I mostly work from home and have gone from a dual monitor setup to a single ultra-wide. When I'm in the office, we have dual monitors connected to a DisplayLink hub, which connects to our Macs using a single usb-c cable (and also provides network and charging/power). I much prefer working with an ultra-wide to using dual monitors. However, DisplayLink works well for general office / software development use. It's not an ideal solution but would probably meet many people's needs.

 

[JPack]

They added it because it came with the chip they were using. They took it away because they didn’t care to invest the silicon in providing the feature… I think if it is not difficult to offer they should add more display outputs, if the silicon trade off is better spent elsewhere they shouldn’t bother.

Intel Atom processors ($18 MSRP) supports 3 displays. Those processors are for netbooks and use an architecture a decade old.

Apple's decision to support 1 external display isn't related to silicon. It's marketing. It's the same as Apple choosing to not allow ProRes for 128GB iPhones.

 

[exoticSpice]

I

What happened? It is likely people are running fewer monitors today?

If anything more people would use external monitors today with all the WFH thing.

 

[bcortens]

Intel Atom processors ($18 MSRP) supports 3 displays. Those processors are for netbooks and use an architecture a decade old.

Apple's decision to support 1 external display isn't related to silicon. It's marketing. It's the same as Apple choosing to not allow ProRes for 128GB iPhones.

It is silicon, it’s how they design the M1 chip and the number of display output channels they build into it. Intel chooses to support more display out channels on their chip’s GPU, that is a choice.
Apple’s decision is a silicon choice, they could allocate more silicon to output channels but they don’t: you believe they should add more output channels, I actually agree.

 

[darngooddesign]

Intel Atom processors ($18 MSRP) supports 3 displays. Those processors are for netbooks and use an architecture a decade old.

Apple's decision to support 1 external display isn't related to silicon. It's marketing. It's the same as Apple choosing to not allow ProRes for 128GB iPhones.

Apple supports a total of 2 displays on the M1/2. On the Mini it's two external, and on the laptops it's one internal and one external.

 

[JouniS]

I’m fairly certain we could request second monitors if we wished. I have a 27” ultra fine 5K and whiles I sometimes wish it was a bit larger I don’t want a second display. Generally I think people both overestimate the usefulness of second monitors in terms of efficiency, and in terms of demand.

I know there are jobs where a second monitor matters but I don’t think it’s as many as people believe.

Productivity as measured how? There are often times when i feel that my single iPad Pro screen is more productive than a large desktop display.

I’d love to see long term studies to see if second screens increase measured tasks completed or just perception of task efficiency.

The thing is that office monitors are extremely cheap. Discussing about the need for a second monitor may already be more expensive than just buying it. If the second monitor increases productivity by 1% (which would disappear in noise in individual performance), it's obviously worth buying. And if the user is more comfortable with two monitors, they will make fewer mistakes and are less likely to leave.

Office jobs often involve working with two documents at the same time, for example by using one as a reference while writing another. People used to print a lot of documents, because all the necessary things didn't fit on screen at the same time. Today it's cheaper and more convenient to simply use dual monitors.

 

[bcortens]

The thing is that office monitors are extremely cheap. Discussing about the need for a second monitor may already be more expensive than just buying it. If the second monitor increases productivity by 1% (which would disappear in noise in individual performance), it's obviously worth buying. And if the user is more comfortable with two monitors, they will make fewer mistakes and are less likely to leave.

Office jobs often involve working with two documents at the same time, for example by using one as a reference while writing another. People used to print a lot of documents, because all the necessary things didn't fit on screen at the same time. Today it's cheaper and more convenient to simply use dual monitors.

Two documents side by side are easier to work with on one very large screen than on two separate screens…
I, and others I know, have found multi monitor to be more trouble than its worth. You assert that it increases productivity and I don’t think that assertion is necessarily true. People ‘feel’ more productive but I don’t know that that feeling is true. People also ‘feel’ more productive when multitasking but the task switching can often make them slower.

Besides if all you need is an office monitor you can use the various streaming technologies to get multiple displays via software… making the complaint that Apple is doing something horrible here moot… if you actually need dedicated external display lanes you’re probably not buying cheap office monitors and can afford to step up to the Pro/Max series of chips.

 

[JouniS]

Two documents side by side are easier to work with on one very large screen than on two separate screens…

I think it's the opposite. With dual screens, you have two separate spaces, and you can use maximized windows or full-screen apps in them. If you have one big screen, you have to resize windows and place them side by side. Even after all these decades of computer use, I'm still not big enough power user to do that comfortably.

People also ‘feel’ more productive when multitasking but the task switching can often make them slower.

That's exactly what happens when you are using a single monitor. You switch apps, you lose the context, and your productivity suffers.

 

[perplx]

Here are the minimum price for a laptop by display count.

1 displays $999 macbook air m1
2 displays $1999 macbook pro 14
4 displays $2899 macbook pro 14 Max

 

[UBS28]

The biggest issue with M1 is only 2 USB-C ports. My 10nm Intel 13” 2020 MBP has 4 USB-C ports. So why only 2 on the M1? That is really a no-go for me.

 

[BanditoB]

I think that we need to keep in mind that the M1 and M2 chips are based on the A-series chips which only needed to support one external display. In keeping with the same overall design it probably wasn’t practical to add the additional circuitry necessary to drive additional displays. It also may be an issue related to the chip’s layout. There could simply be no real estate left on the die for adding the additional circuitry.

 

[bcortens]

I think it's the opposite. With dual screens, you have two separate spaces, and you can use maximized windows or full-screen apps in them. If you have one big screen, you have to resize windows and place them side by side. Even after all these decades of computer use, I'm still not big enough power user to do that comfortably.


That's exactly what happens when you are using a single monitor. You switch apps, you lose the context, and your productivity suffers.

The Magnet utility is what I use, easy snapping to keep windows where I want them.
Generally I know people might like to see everything at once - I don’t I want to see only the windows I need to do my work. If you would rather a collection of small screens each with one or two items that’s fine and you can use one of those USB software multi screen things - I generally prefer to have a big monitor with only 2 or 3 things on screen at a time.
I also don’t use macOS fullscreen and split screen because it is too rigid, it doesn’t let you drag things in and out of split screen, you have to manually move things around too much where within a space using magnet I can quickly use edge dragging to snap windows into position.

 

[bcortens]

I think that we need to keep in mind that the M1 and M2 chips are based on the A-series chips which only needed to support one external display. In keeping with the same overall design it probably wasn’t practical to add the additional circuitry necessary to drive additional displays. It also may be an issue related to the chip’s layout. There could simply be no real estate left on the die for adding the additional circuitry.

I suspect they could make the chip bigger (The M2 is larger than the M1) but I also suspect that large numbers of screens on the base models is a niche use case - Apple probably has the numbers but I suspect the number of people using more than 1 external screen at a time was low enough not to warrant additional display lanes.

 

[JPack]

I think that we need to keep in mind that the M1 and M2 chips are based on the A-series chips which only needed to support one external display. In keeping with the same overall design it probably wasn’t practical to add the additional circuitry necessary to drive additional displays. It also may be an issue related to the chip’s layout. There could simply be no real estate left on the die for adding the additional circuitry.

No, Snapdragon, Atom, Celeron are much smaller and cheaper with a fraction of the transistor count. M2 has more transistors than anything comparable.

 

[MiamiBeach]

As I have a need for a dual display setup, would I be okay with purchasing the 2020 MacBook Air Intel version? Would that give me the ability to have the MacBook Air closed but drive two external monitors? I’m seeing a MacBook Air 9,1 which I guess is the 2020 version and is the last Intel one before M1 was released.

I was ready to purchase one of the M versions, however just happened to see this thread before making a purchase.

 

[JPack]

As I have a need for a dual display setup, would I be okay with purchasing the 2020 MacBook Air Intel version? Would that give me the ability to have the MacBook Air closed but drive two external monitors? I’m seeing a MacBook Air 9,1 which I guess is the 2020 version and is the last Intel one before M1 was released.

I was ready to purchase one of the M versions, however just happened to see this thread before making a purchase.

Yes, it’ll work. But you’d be buying a low performance MacBook Air that will be obsolete in a few short years. Best bet remains to get an $1,800 base model MacBook Pro 14, which is also what Apple wants you to do. You’ll get proper HDMI out and enough USB-C to output to two monitors.

 

[jav6454]

As I have a need for a dual display setup, would I be okay with purchasing the 2020 MacBook Air Intel version? Would that give me the ability to have the MacBook Air closed but drive two external monitors? I’m seeing a MacBook Air 9,1 which I guess is the 2020 version and is the last Intel one before M1 was released.

I was ready to purchase one of the M versions, however just happened to see this thread before making a purchase.

An Intel MBA will drive those two displays. But please, don't buy an Intel MBA. Apple is quickly phasing out Intel support and Intel CPUs are not holding that great in terms of performance on older models.

 

[pshufd]

The Magnet utility is what I use, easy snapping to keep windows where I want them.
Generally I know people might like to see everything at once - I don’t I want to see only the windows I need to do my work. If you would rather a collection of small screens each with one or two items that’s fine and you can use one of those USB software multi screen things - I generally prefer to have a big monitor with only 2 or 3 things on screen at a time.
I also don’t use macOS fullscreen and split screen because it is too rigid, it doesn’t let you drag things in and out of split screen, you have to manually move things around too much where within a space using magnet I can quickly use edge dragging to snap windows into position.

The problem with the USB to display adapters is that it's another device that can fail. I bought one of those back in the High Sierra days and a maintenance release of High Sierra broke the DisplayLink drivers. They said that it would be fixed in the next maintenance release so I waited for the next maintenance release and it wasn't fixed. Then they said wait one more maintenance release. It wasn't fixed. Then they said that it would be fixed in the next major release. I gave up at that point.

So you may depend on these things for multi-monitor support but it's one more thing that can go wrong. I wasn't able to upgrade to the next major release at the time because our workplace hadn't evaluated it yet. The evaluation process normally took about 9 months.

 

[MiamiBeach]

Yes, it’ll work. But you’d be buying a low performance MacBook Air that will be obsolete in a few short years. Best bet remains to get an $1,800 base model MacBook Pro 14, which is also what Apple wants you to do. You’ll get proper HDMI out and enough USB-C to output to two monitors.

An Intel MBA will drive those two displays. But please, don't buy an Intel MBA. Apple is quickly phasing out Intel support and Intel CPUs are not holding that great in terms of performance on older models.

Thanks to you both for the replies. Was all set to order the new M2 Air thinking it would be able to drive two external screens however was surprised to see this wasn’t the case.

The MacBook Pro would be overkill for my basic office application needs.

I thought about a Mac mini as a possibility but then wouldn’t have the portability to move between offices.

If I can get a used Intel 2020 MacBook Air for around $600-$700 would that be worth it? If not then back to the drawing board.