MP 7,1 Intel Optane SSD 905P as bootable SSD Drive in Mac Pro 7,1

[h9826790]

But on the scratch disk are a lot of little video and audio previews

Little video and audio previews are considered large files, not small files. They are nowhere near 4k size.

 

[7572994]

You probably right with that. So if you have one to use for something in the new Mac Pro would you use it for a scratch disk, the system, or for the lightroom catalogue. Where would it play out it strength the most?

 

[h9826790]

You probably right with that. So if you have one to use for something in the new Mac Pro would you use it for a scratch disk, the system, or for the lightroom catalogue. Where would it play out it strength the most?

Not sure about LR, but use it for OS should be very good.

 

[7572994]

Not sure about LR, but use it for OS should be very good.

Thanks. Do you think it will have an advantage over the native 1TB? I have the 480 GB Optane here and want to put it to good use, when the Mac Pro arrives. The 1TB from Apple could housing a few media files, like Lightroom...for the work with videos I plan on going with the Sonnet 4x4 silent and 4 2TB modules.
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@ rxs0
How is your system running? You happy you went that route with the Optane?

 

[TrumanLA]

Most of the time you are doing 4K transfers, just a very low percentage of all disk access is QD32 sequential. Optane advantage is low latency and very good 4k transfers.

As always, your explanations are excellent & thus far, accurate summaries of what really matters.

Are Optane compatible with:
• MP5,1 -- (updated NVMe bootable BootROM, obviously)
• A1398 MBPr L-2013 thru Mid 2015 and equivalent 13" MBPr with NVMe support
• iMacs (A1418 / A1419 which have the PCIe interface)
• iMacs (A2115 / A2116 which I believe use the same interface)
(if there's actually any difference in the BootROM's supported NVMe protocols)..?


Have you tried using a U.2 (NVMe) SSD in an iMac..? Via a U.2 to M.2 adapter via the PCIe SSD slot?

• Though I'd assume the motivations self explanatory to you, for others reading, they include: Size, Price, Reliability, etc. ...
• Until recently, U.2 SSDs provided exclusive access to capacities < 2TB, and still provide exclusive access to capacities over 4TB.
• Even though 4TB M.2 now exist, U.2 SSD price variance per-TB, meant I found 4TB NVMe SSDs for $85 x TB in 2018, or $340 each!
• SSD capacities greater than 4TB still require U.2 & at that, are usually cheaper than M.2 options.
• And ostensibly (to the extent that Enterprise devices are actually) more reliable vs. consumer devices.

I'd assume a Sintech ver. C (long) adapter + an M.2-to-U.2 adapter... (see pictures)
To whichever U.2 SSDs BootROMs are compatible with (likely similar to 2013-2015 process...
And augmenting power from the iMac's SATA port for 15p SATA power.


Thunderbolt 3 to U.2 SSD (NVMe)
U.2 to M.2 Adapter + M.2 (NVMe) to Thunderbolt (2 & 3) Adapters:
(As no External, Thunderbolt to U.2 NVMe SSD interface exists excluding G-RAID's $400-per-TB option)

- U.2 to M.2 adapter
- M.2 to TBx (2 or 3)

Failed power method:
- Supplying power from a USB3 to SATA (data and power) & trying to use the SATA power-port.

Instead, I used a DC to 4-pin molex, and went from 4-pin Molex to 15p SATA Power.

And now, have access to my PM983 3.84TB NVMe SSDs via a Sonnett TB3 with results shown below:


That said, it has ejected at times, so I can't report the reliability yet -- but still, the performance is much higher than even my EVO 970 Plus as an M.2 ... probably because this is powered (as powered vs unpowered is a huge factor for all protocols: USB 3.1, TB, etc)


The 4k performance seems pretty abysmal, but, I'm going to purchase a Samsung X5 to see if that TB3 controller offers superior performance.

 

[tsialex]

As always, your explanations are excellent & thus far, accurate summaries of what really matters.

Are Optane compatible with:
• MP5,1 -- (updated NVMe bootable BootROM, obviously)
• A1398 MBPr L-2013 thru Mid 2015 and equivalent 13" MBPr with NVMe support
• iMacs (A1418 / A1419 which have the PCIe interface)
• iMacs (A2115 / A2116 which I believe use the same interface)
(if there's actually any difference in the BootROM's supported NVMe protocols)..?


Have you tried using a U.2 (NVMe) SSD in an iMac..? Via a U.2 to M.2 adapter via the PCIe SSD slot?

• Though I'd assume the motivations self explanatory to you, for others reading, they include: Size, Price, Reliability, etc. ...
• Until recently, U.2 SSDs provided exclusive access to capacities < 2TB, and still provide exclusive access to capacities over 4TB.
• Even though 4TB M.2 now exist, U.2 SSD price variance per-TB, meant I found 4TB NVMe SSDs for $85 x TB in 2018, or $340 each!
• SSD capacities greater than 4TB still require U.2 & at that, are usually cheaper than M.2 options.
• And ostensibly (to the extent that Enterprise devices are actually) more reliable vs. consumer devices.

I'd assume a Sintech ver. C (long) adapter + an M.2-to-U.2 adapter... (see pictures)
To whichever U.2 SSDs BootROMs are compatible with (likely similar to 2013-2015 process...
And augmenting power from the iMac's SATA port for 15p SATA power.


Thunderbolt 3 to U.2 SSD (NVMe)
U.2 to M.2 Adapter + M.2 (NVMe) to Thunderbolt (2 & 3) Adapters:
(As no External, Thunderbolt to U.2 NVMe SSD interface exists excluding G-RAID's $400-per-TB option)

- U.2 to M.2 adapter
- M.2 to TBx (2 or 3)

Failed power method:
- Supplying power from a USB3 to SATA (data and power) & trying to use the SATA power-port.

Instead, I used a DC to 4-pin molex, and went from 4-pin Molex to 15p SATA Power.

And now, have access to my PM983 3.84TB NVMe SSDs via a Sonnett TB3 with results shown below:


That said, it has ejected at times, so I can't report the reliability yet -- but still, the performance is much higher than even my EVO 970 Plus as an M.2 ... probably because this is powered (as powered vs unpowered is a huge factor for all protocols: USB 3.1, TB, etc)


The 4k performance seems pretty abysmal, but, I'm going to purchase a Samsung X5 to see if that TB3 controller offers superior performance.

I've used Optane (HHHL and U2) only with a MacPro5,1, works fine and it's excellent for any low latency application, never used with any other Mac. Can't answer about other Macs Optane or NVMe usage.

 

[TrumanLA]

Did you see the part of about getting that U.2 drive to work using the M.2 to TB3 with U.2 to M.2 ..?
I'd bet that a U.2 will work in an iMac in the manner described (might test it on a Mid-2015 I have to replace the display on and just found one at a price that doesn't negate all potential profit).

Can you believe how fast the new 980 Pro is..? Great news for consumers -- it's barely outperformed by the 905p.
(obviously, the optane P5800X is ridiculous, both in performance & price)...

Would you ever recommend something like a 905p in a 5,1 ..? Do you remember which optane you tested..?

Oh -- one more question: Whats the fastest (unpowered) TB3 to NVMe adapter..?
Til recently I thought it was the Sonnett Fusion ... but now think it might be the Samsung X5 (over 2,000)..

Thanks again dude.

 

[tsialex]

Did you see the part of about getting that U.2 drive to work using the M.2 to TB3 with U.2 to M.2 ..?

Sorry, can't help you with that.

I'd bet that a U.2 will work in an iMac in the manner described (might test it on a Mid-2015 I have to replace the display on and just found one at a price that doesn't negate all potential profit).

Can you believe how fast the new 980 Pro is..? Great news for consumers -- it's barely outperformed by the 905p.
(obviously, the optane P5800X is ridiculous, both in performance & price)...

Would you ever recommend something like a 905p in a 5,1 ..? Do you remember which optane you tested..?

Like I've wrote, I only tested with MacPro5,1 and I don't recommend it unless you have a serious motive to use one or get one stupidly cheap. It's very expensive, HHHL models are limited to 1450MB/s, U2 models require a PCIe switched card to overcome the PCIe v2.0 limitation that is also not cheap.

I've tested several models over the years, from 900p 280G to 905p 1,5TB.

Oh -- one more question: Whats the fastest (unpowered) TB3 to NVMe adapter..?
Til recently I thought it was the Sonnett Fusion ... but now think it might be the Samsung X5 (over 2,000)..

Thanks again dude.

Sorry, can't help you with that.

 

[TrumanLA]

Sorry, can't help you with that.

Re: U.2 NVMe SSD via Thunderbolt 3 (ext access via MacBook Pro to SFF-8639)
No no, no help needed. got it working.

SETUP / CONNECTION​

POWER: 12v AC to 4p molex + 4p molex to 15p (SATA power out)
DATA: U.2 (8639) to M.2 adapter / cable with 15p SATA power (for SATA power in)
ADAPTER: M.2 to Thunderbolt 3

BENCHMARKS (Samsung PM983 U.2, 3.86TB which I paid $360/SSD ~3 years ago)​

Write: ~1,100 MB/s
Read: ~2,800 MB/s

The U.2 to M.2 KITS via Amazon were $20 ..! (including cable, M.2 to SFF-8643 to SFF-8639 (U.2) SATA power in.)
(the item I bought was out of stock; check the above "U.2 to M.2 Kits" link to see if they're back in stock)...

The cheapest kit I found in my search results (lowest-to-highest in the category so they don't show COFFEE, etc).
Is now $36, and the M.2 to to SFF-8643 is soldered / one piece on one side of the cable...
And the same SFF-8639 + SATA power in on the other.

Best result I found on eBay ... within these search results.

The below option is with virtually the same, except instead of the 15p SATA power, it uses 4p Molex FEMALE**

20 inch U.2 (SFF-8639) to HD Mini-SAS (SFF-8643) Cable with Molex Power 4-Pin - PI Manufacturing

20 inch U.2 (SFF-8639) to HD Mini-SAS (SFF-8643) Cable with Molex Power 4-Pin

www.pimfg.com

If unfamiliar with the appearance associated with 4pin molex genders are defined, take a quick look to avoid my errors.

Like I've wrote, I only tested with MacPro5,1 and I don't recommend it unless you have a serious motive to use one or get one stupidly cheap. It's very expensive, HHHL models are limited to 1450MB/s, U2 models require a PCIe switched card to overcome the PCIe v2.0 limitation that is also not cheap.

I've tested several models over the years, from 900p 280G to 905p 1,5TB.

GOOD info, thank you. (Saves me the 'data cost' of coming to the same conclusion no doubt).

 

[dabotsonline]

(As no External, Thunderbolt to U.2 NVMe SSD interface exists excluding G-RAID's $400-per-TB option)

@TrumanLA , what about the OWCHELIOS3STRY 810586033145 OWC U.2 NVMe Interchange System for Mercury Helios 3S: https://www.owcdigital.com/products/u-2-nvme / https://www.owcdigital.com/assets/dealer/slicks/Product_Spec_Sheets/owc-u2-nvme-spec-sheet.pdf / https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/HELIOS3STRY/?fullDetails via https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-u2-nvme-interchange-system / https://www.owcdigital.com/reseller/resellers ?

The Mercury Helios 3S uses the Titan Ridge JHL7440 Thunderbolt 3 Controller, as confirmed by https://amplify.nabshow.com/company-products/mercury-helios-3s-thunderbolt-3-pcie-expansion-solution and shown in detail by https://djtopy.pixnet.net/blog/post/358917626

OWC's Thunderbay Flex 8 [ https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbay-flex-8 ] uses the same controller but with more flexible mounting, as explained by https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/author/arthur-ditner :

The Thunderbay Flex 8 can mount U.2 storage natively.
The Mercury Helios requires an adapter to mount the U.2 carrier.

However, a U.2 drive can still be mounted in the U2CARS00OWC / OWCU2CARS00 carrier (therefore the HELIOS3SISSOWC / OWCHELIOS3SISS system bay insert won't be being used) and then installed if additional protection is required:

By installing an OWC U.2 NVMe Interchange System carrier tray (sold separately) with a built-in U.2 connector into a ThunderBay Flex 8 drive tray, you can protect the U.2 SSD drive’s connector from repeated install/removal wear for improved drive longevity and investment.

https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/75379-u2-drives-for-your-dit-workflow

Just be aware of the speed limitations with multiple U.2 drives:

Bay 1 - PCIe x4 lane

Bay 2, 3, 4 - PCIe x1 lane

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB3F80C000/?fullDetails

The forthcoming OWC Mercury Pro U.2 Dual should also allow direct mounting but I'm unsure whether the drive tray will be supported, and of the PCIe lane distribution: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-mercury-pro-u2-dual