Interested in Mirrorless replacement for Nikon D800

[kenoh]

Ye Gods - one of the many reasons I gave up watching TV!
[doublepost=1493021459][/doublepost]

Bad news I am afraid. I do actually have a certificate to prove my generalised madness so Mr Cervantes, in this case, is probably correct. Don't be too concerned, the certificate does say "not a danger to the public""just himself" so no problems for you lot then.

Most guys should have a certificate saying that no? do you not get one the day you take ownership of your first powertool?

 

[Reality4711]

Most guys should have a certificate saying that no? do you not get one the day you take ownership of your first powertool?

Got mine after thirty+ years of not knowing - came as a shock/relief to finally be told the reason for the past fifty odd years of struggling in my head. Sorry of piste there.

Back to the safe world of camera chat. The Nikon stuff is all cleaned up, actuator count recorded and awaiting the sales teams return through the falling snow.

Yes, 'snow'. Out doing my last pano with the Nikon two days ago and today, where I set up, is no longer covered in glorious sunshine but heavy, wet snow!

Regards. Sharkey

 

[MCAsan]

Bad news I am afraid. I do actually have a certificate to prove my generalised madness so Mr Cervantes, in this case, is probably correct. Don't be too concerned, the certificate does say "not a danger to the public""just himself" so no problems for you lot then.

I fully understand. I just ordered my second E-M1 II.

Though this be madness there is method in it.

 

[Reality4711]

XT-2 + VG + 18/55 f2.8/4 lens reserved for pickup 11th May. This may change as the sale of the Nikon stuff progresses.

Ideal lens list would seem to be - 10/24mm WA Zoom, 27mm pancake, and then I get a bit grey/confused and cost starts to exact its pressures.

One thought is to sell the 18/55 as soon as (second-hand price is roughly the same as cost when bought with camera) and purchase the 55/135 giving a total of 15mm to 202.5mm with arguably the quality on the wide end.

First thoughts please gentlemen. The long end is likely used the least mid and wide shots are my tendency.

Regards. Sharkey

 

[Mark0]

The XF 10-24mm f4 is absolutely stellar from what I see/hear so you can't go wrong with that. I don't have it because I don't like a compressed background and stretched foreground scene too much with my landscape work. I use the XF 16-55mm f2.8 but may look at adding the Samyang 12mm f2.0 NCS purely for the odd occasion and it's low light capability / coma performance for night sky photography.

The 18-55mm f2.8-4 is often wrongly deemed a 'kit' lens and it is often unfairly dismissed due to this moniker. It is far from 'kit lens' quality and is a really, really good lens. I went for the 16-55mm over it because I wanted the constant aperture and the wider focal length.

You'll love the grip purely for the fact it gives the system 3 batteries (2 in grip, 1 in body) which lasts ages. Boost mode is very good too for extra FPS and nippier AF.

I think you're in for a treat I've never looked back since changing from Canon 5D FF. I've never once thought 'man, I wish I had the Canon right now.'

P.S. One thing I might add is get a set of fast memory cards for the dual slots. I use the backup function (which has come in handy!) and have Sandisk 280Mb/s cards in mine so they aren't a bottleneck when shooting RAW bursts etc...

 

[steve123]

XT-2 + VG + 18/55 f2.8/4 lens reserved for pickup 11th May. This may change as the sale of the Nikon stuff progresses.

Ideal lens list would seem to be - 10/24mm WA Zoom, 27mm pancake, and then I get a bit grey/confused and cost starts to exact its pressures.

One thought is to sell the 18/55 as soon as (second-hand price is roughly the same as cost when bought with camera) and purchase the 55/135 giving a total of 15mm to 202.5mm with arguably the quality on the wide end.

First thoughts please gentlemen. The long end is likely used the least mid and wide shots are my tendency.

Regards. Sharkey

Ok, I have gone and taken a close look at the X-T2 and I am seriously considering this as well now. The more I look at it, the more I am impressed with what I am reading as I am sure you are. I have been patiently waiting for a Nikon mirrorless camera to upgrade my D7000. I was disappointed to learn the recently announced D7500 is not mirrorless (this is 2017 after all). Having followed this thread and done a bit of research I think I may jump ship. This camera looks darn good. I have some travel planned in a couple weeks so I need to make my mind up fast.

I am looking at the lenses and not sure what to do. I currently almost always use the 18-135mm lens I got with my D7000. It's not a particularly great lens and I hate the variable aperture but it usually does the trick outdoors. When shooting indoors, I find I almost always need to have my flash close by when using this lens because its too slow. I have a 35mm 1.8 DX and 50mm 1.8 FX lenses as well but I generally only pull those out indoors and when I have a low light situation. And because I need to switch them out, I usually default to my zoom.

I was reading Ken Rockwell's review and he mentioned a couple things. He said DSLR's are "faster" at autofocus. From what I have been reading, it sounds like the X-T2 has a good autofocus system. Certainly *sounds* better than my D7000. I do not recall reading about this issue in other reviews. Looking further into the review at DPR, I found these comments in the "CONS":

• Subject tracking, while good, is not dependable enough for professional use
• AF performance drops significantly in low light
• Phase detection region is somewhat small by contemporary standards

Does anyone have any comments on this?

The second thing he said was that for landscape photography, the DSLR's were better at colour. He suggested colour saturation was better for the DSLR's. I am not sure how to judge this comment myself. Looking at the review over at DPR did not suggest to me that the X-T2 lacked in saturation.

Also, DPR seems to consistently rank the D500 better than the X-T2. I am not sure why. For instance, if I compare the noise performance it seems to my eye the X-T2 out performs the D500. Anyone else notice that?

I can now see why you chose the X-T2 ... excellent choice.

 

[steve123]

XT-2 + VG + 18/55 f2.8/4 lens reserved for pickup 11th May. This may change as the sale of the Nikon stuff progresses.

Ideal lens list would seem to be - 10/24mm WA Zoom, 27mm pancake, and then I get a bit grey/confused and cost starts to exact its pressures.

One thought is to sell the 18/55 as soon as (second-hand price is roughly the same as cost when bought with camera) and purchase the 55/135 giving a total of 15mm to 202.5mm with arguably the quality on the wide end.

First thoughts please gentlemen. The long end is likely used the least mid and wide shots are my tendency.

Regards. Sharkey

Hi, it's me again. Have you seen this:

http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2016/07/25/fujifilm-x-pro2-grid-artefacts/


Seem's like there is some sort of sensor artifact issue for certain types of shots. Weird thing is if you scroll down the comments section, a guy posted an image that doesn't appear to have any backlight but the artifact definitely appears.

Any other reports of this and how to avoid it?

 

[steve123]

Here is some more info on the grid artifact:

https://petapixel.com/2017/02/23/fuji-cameras-produce-strange-purple-flaregrid-artifact/

 

[Mark0]

@steve123 I have an X-T2 and love it. Like every camera, it has things people don't like or problem stuff like the artefacts issue. No camera is 100% perfect. I've not experienced the artefact issue with backlighting but it's due to the sensor design with ML Cameras.

Also, Ken Rockwell is an idiot. I cannot fathom why people put so much faith in his "reviews". The bit about landscapes and colour makes me laugh. He shots Fuji cameras on the Velvia sim (saturated enough as it is) but at +4 Colour. His shots look terrible.

My advice to you is, go and try it or rent one to see what YOU think. That is more important than what anyone else does.

My own experience is that I switched from the Canon 5D series and haven't looked back. The X-T2 is 95% perfect for me - but what I'm looking for could be vastly different from anyone else.

 

[steve123]

@steve123 I have an X-T2 and love it. Like every camera, it has things people don't like or problem stuff like the artefacts issue. No camera is 100% perfect. I've not experienced the artefact issue with backlighting but it's due to the sensor design with ML Cameras.

Also, Ken Rockwell is an idiot. I cannot fathom why people put so much faith in his "reviews". The bit about landscapes and colour makes me laugh. He shots Fuji cameras on the Velvia sim (saturated enough as it is) but at +4 Colour. His shots look terrible.

My advice to you is, go and try it or rent one to see what YOU think. That is more important than what anyone else does.

My own experience is that I switched from the Canon 5D series and haven't looked back. The X-T2 is 95% perfect for me - but what I'm looking for could be vastly different from anyone else.

Thanks @Mark0, I think I will go take a closer look at one if these.

 

[steve123]

@Mark0, Took your advice and scheduled a 3 day test drive. Funny, the guy at the shop I visited had similar sentiments about Ken Rockwell.
[doublepost=1493682469][/doublepost]One other observation. Somewhere I read that the X T2 was not suitable for action shots because of the EVF lag. In my quick test at the shop today, I noticed no appreciable lag so it is not likely something I will ever encounter. I did ask if there was a spec but the guy at the shop did not know what the lag actually was and could find no spec for it. Has anyone ever measured the lag?

 

[steve123]

Found this evaluation of lag. Not quite scientific but I think the approach looks sound and the result confirms that for my style of shooting, lag will not be a problem.

http://www.thewanderinglensman.com/2017/01/timing-photograph-shutter-lag-evf-lag.html

 

[Mark0]

Thanks @Mark0, I think I will go take a closer look at one if these.

@Mark0, Took your advice and scheduled a 3 day test drive. Funny, the guy at the shop I visited had similar sentiments about Ken Rockwell.
[doublepost=1493682469][/doublepost]One other observation. Somewhere I read that the X T2 was not suitable for action shots because of the EVF lag. In my quick test at the shop today, I noticed no appreciable lag so it is not likely something I will ever encounter. I did ask if there was a spec but the guy at the shop did not know what the lag actually was and could find no spec for it. Has anyone ever measured the lag?

Found this evaluation of lag. Not quite scientific but I think the approach looks sound and the result confirms that for my style of shooting, lag will not be a problem.

http://www.thewanderinglensman.com/2017/01/timing-photograph-shutter-lag-evf-lag.html

Actually using the camera is what makes or breaks a decision to buy. I had been waiting for the successor to the X-T1 and when the rumors came out that the X-T2 would be essentially 95% similar to the X-PRO 2, I went and played with it even though it had a different form factor etc.
I had already tried the X-T1 but tried them side by side. I decided I'd seen enough to place a pre-order for the X-T2. The X-T1 has a noticeable lag, the X-T2 has improved so much it's barely noticeable. The only thing I notice is how much more fluid and smooth the EVF becomes when I engage Boost mode on the grip. The AF becomes a fraction quicker too.

I shoot fast stuff from time to time and have found the X-T2 to be capable. Obviously, a DSLR will AF quicker, especially expensive ones but for my casual use, I'm happy with it. People who depend on their camera for fast action / sport to make a living generally wouldn't pick an X-T2. There are reasons why a Canon 1DX or Nikon D5 take over on this front. The bodies and availability of fast telephoto primes are what's needed at that level. For me, taking photos of my wee boy running about the garden, the odd school show or school football match - the X-T2 and my fast 2.8 zooms seem to do just fine.

 

[Reality4711]

Vertical Grip, 27mm pancake lens and third party battery charger ordered from Amazon.

Thursday sees me going to Invernes for an MRI scan (don't ask) followed by a trip to Fffordes to spend the remainder of the Nikon eBay monies.

There is not a lot to play with so I will get the XT-2, two(2)extra batteries for the VG and the 10-24mm lens.

Hopefully Ffordes will look on my eight ovesized filters as sufficient inducement to supply one ore two filters for the 10-24.. You never know I may get lucky. If not 67/72&77mm filters going cheap (not cheep)

Then 35/55/(maybe 60) and 90mm primes to follow as money falls from the heavens.

Comments as always welcome.

Regards Sharkey

 

[Reality4711]

Actually using the camera is what makes or breaks a decision to buy. I had been waiting for the successor to the X-T1 and when the rumors came out that the X-T2 would be essentially 95% similar to the X-PRO 2, I went and played with it even though it had a different form factor etc.
I had already tried the X-T1 but tried them side by side. I decided I'd seen enough to place a pre-order for the X-T2. The X-T1 has a noticeable lag, the X-T2 has improved so much it's barely noticeable. The only thing I notice is how much more fluid and smooth the EVF becomes when I engage Boost mode on the grip. The AF becomes a fraction quicker too.

I shoot fast stuff from time to time and have found the X-T2 to be capable. Obviously, a DSLR will AF quicker, especially expensive ones but for my casual use, I'm happy with it. People who depend on their camera for fast action / sport to make a living generally wouldn't pick an X-T2. There are reasons why a Canon 1DX or Nikon D5 take over on this front. The bodies and availability of fast telephoto primes are what's needed at that level. For me, taking photos of my wee boy running about the garden, the odd school show or school football match - the X-T2 and my fast 2.8 zooms seem to do just fine.

Using an EOS1V/300mmf2.8 with 100asa film on a good bright day I would fire off the 36 frames quite happily in the knowledge that at least 30 frames would be tack sharp and two or three still usable for reportage. In fact if I was using a 200f2.8 or 135f2 the hit rate would be higher still with pretty much any subject; BIF, football, theatre work whatever.

We do not seem, from comments I read, to have improved much.

Its probably 'rose tinted specticals'.

Hey Hoy.

Regards. Sharkey

 

[Reality4711]

UPDATE & DOWNDAY

Just Instructed Amazon to refund my card for "lost order"!

So no 27mm, no VG and no spare batteries arriving.

This is the first time Amazon has let me down in any way; boy what a way to do it.

The poor girl on the 'so-called' help line actually suggested I buy somewhere else .

I suppose it may be a message of some sorts. Time to rethink what next while I wait for the money to return; get to know the camera (which I now have+10/24 lens) and maybe even chang e my mind on direction to take with lenses etc.. Sometimes these things are jus t meant to be.

Amazon have no reason at all to be of help to just one customer. Have they?

Regards. Sharkey

 

[Mark0]

UPDATE & DOWNDAY

Just Instructed Amazon to refund my card for "lost order"!

So no 27mm, no VG and no spare batteries arriving.

This is the first time Amazon has let me down in any way; boy what a way to do it.

The poor girl on the 'so-called' help line actually suggested I buy somewhere else .

I suppose it may be a message of some sorts. Time to rethink what next while I wait for the money to return; get to know the camera (which I now have+10/24 lens) and maybe even chang e my mind on direction to take with lenses etc.. Sometimes these things are jus t meant to be.

Amazon have no reason at all to be of help to just one customer. Have they?

Regards. Sharkey

See about buying those items from ffordes.co.uk. They deal with new and used gear. They are very reputable and that's where I got my XT2 gear.

If not, MPB have a few used XT2 grips in stock at a cheaper price than new.

There are 3rd party batteries but I use genuine Fuji ones, even though the prices are eye-watering!

How are you enjoying the camera so far? If you have any questions, feel free to ask me and I'll see what I can do to help.

 

[Reality4711]

See about buying those items from ffordes.co.uk. They deal with new and used gear. They are very reputable and that's where I got my XT2 gear.

If not, MPB have a few used XT2 grips in stock at a cheaper price than new.

There are 3rd party batteries but I use genuine Fuji ones, even though the prices are eye-watering!

How are you enjoying the camera so far? If you have any questions, feel free to ask me and I'll see what I can do to help.

Your not on a 'cut' are you?

Always bought my stuff, since staying in Scotland, from Ffordes. It is really the price difference that has forced the change this time round.

OK. in retrospect (hindsight) buying from them would have been more reliable but £50 more for a VG, £50 more for a 27mm lens and £15 more for a battery on the surface would seem a little diffecult to ignore. As it stands, the budget is unchanged but the direction maybe re-thought as of now.

Having had a day at my puppies first dog show with only a 10/24 lens I am sure a longer. lens is required. 18/135mm may be the answer but my perfectionist nature still pushes me towards multiple primes. Oh for £500 more in the kitty!

The 27mm 'pancake' has always been a dream for a walkabout but with the showing on my wifes mind I may have to put that off for the next few months.

MPB?

Sorry a bit slow this evening.

The camera - so far - without the VG is a little hard to handle from the EVF point of view - not too smooth but I think with a bit more delving into the menu i may just get it right. Adjusting the EVF image will give me a better idea of the colour content than the default settings did.

I will report on images so far later. Handling is a memory jerk. I started my pro. work with a Canon AE1 and the feel is remanicent.

I am very hopeful that when the feel is there the speed will appear. Unlike yourself i take pictures quickly and instinctively. I tried the look, consider and commit method but in the end I am a look click man of old and hope this little machine will give me the feel I used to have - and profit from. The digital cameras have not bought me into their realm as much as I would have liked and this is my last chance to get that feel back.

Regards. Sharkey

 

[Mark0]

Your not on a 'cut' are you?

Always bought my stuff, since staying in Scotland, from Ffordes. It is really the price difference that has forced the change this time round.

OK. in retrospect (hindsight) buying from them would have been more reliable but £50 more for a VG, £50 more for a 27mm lens and £15 more for a battery on the surface would seem a little diffecult to ignore. As it stands, the budget is unchanged but the direction maybe re-thought as of now.

Having had a day at my puppies first dog show with only a 10/24 lens I am sure a longer. lens is required. 18/135mm may be the answer but my perfectionist nature still pushes me towards multiple primes. Oh for £500 more in the kitty!

The 27mm 'pancake' has always been a dream for a walkabout but with the showing on my wifes mind I may have to put that off for the next few months.

MPB?

Sorry a bit slow this evening.

The camera - so far - without the VG is a little hard to handle from the EVF point of view - not too smooth but I think with a bit more delving into the menu i may just get it right. Adjusting the EVF image will give me a better idea of the colour content than the default settings did.

I will report on images so far later. Handling is a memory jerk. I started my pro. work with a Canon AE1 and the feel is remanicent.

I am very hopeful that when the feel is there the speed will appear. Unlike yourself i take pictures quickly and instinctively. I tried the look, consider and commit method but in the end I am a look click man of old and hope this little machine will give me the feel I used to have - and profit from. The digital cameras have not bought me into their realm as much as I would have liked and this is my last chance to get that feel back.

Regards. Sharkey

No, I don't get a cut! I'm not good enough to try and even attempt to blag free stuff from manufacturers or get discounts ha!

I'd far rather see an independent shop like ffordes or Merchant City Cameras get people's business rather than the likes of WEX or Jessops. The independents are far friendlier, give better customer service, have a deeper knowledge and won't push a sale compared to my experiences with these other faceless firms. Jessops has to be the worst, they will actually tell a potential buyer any old rubbish just to get a sale. Obviously, independents like ffordes can't bulk buy and yes prices may be a bit higher, but £50 seems a lot higher. Try making them an offer if you are buying a lot of gear? Don't ask, don't get

It saddens me when I see small independents being forced out of business. Vennal cameras in Ayr is a shadow of it's former self due to the downturn and internet competition. That used to be a fantastic shop. Another closed up in Perth a few years ago but as far as I know, there is still an independent shop open up there. Obviously, there may be more, but a lot of knowledge and passion for photography is being lost as these small shops succumb to the internet sales and prices.

I really do hope you enjoy the camera and you may find that you'll adapt rather quickly. I left the EVF as it is. Didn't touch any settings and don't read too much into it as I think it fairly accurate and with any doubt, the histogram helps. The grip will help with handling and should allow you to be faster / more tactile with changing settings. as a former Canon shooter, I was pleasantly surprised how well I adapted. This may be due to using old film SLRs around 15-20 years ago when I was in my early teens. It will probably be alien to those who have never handled an analogue, MF 35mm SLR!

 

[Reality4711]

No, I don't get a cut! I'm not good enough to try and even attempt to blag free stuff from manufacturers or get discounts ha!

I'd far rather see an independent shop like ffordes or Merchant City Cameras get people's business rather than the likes of WEX or Jessops. The independents are far friendlier, give better customer service, have a deeper knowledge and won't push a sale compared to my experiences with these other faceless firms. Jessops has to be the worst, they will actually tell a potential buyer any old rubbish just to get a sale. Obviously, being independent, they can't bulk buy and yes prices may be a bit higher, but £50 seems a lot higher. Try making them an offer if you are buying a lot of gear? Don't ask, don't get

It saddens me when I see small independents being forced out of business. Vennal cameras in Ayr is a shadow of it's former self due to the downturn and internet competition. That used to be a fantastic shop. Another closed up in Perth a few years ago but as far as I know, there is still an independent shop open up there. Obviously, there may be more, but a lot of knowledge and passion for photography is being lost as these small shops succumb to the internet sales and prices.

I really do hope you enjoy the camera and you may find that you'll adapt rather quickly. I left the EVF as it is. Didn't touch any settings and don't read too much into it as I think it fairly accurate and with any doubt, the histogram helps. The grip will help with handling and should allow you to be faster / more tactile with changing settings. as a former Canon shooter, I was pleasantly surprised how well I adapted. This may be due to using old film SLRs around 15-20 years ago when I was in my early teens. It will probably be alien to those who have never handled an analogue, MF 35mm SLR!

Did not really think so

"Confusion reigned and we all got wet"!

My wife purchased a 27mm replacement for me last night - she is beyond brilliant - to kind of perk me up.

This morning the lens, batteries and VG arrived.

So the lens just delivered will be returned as my wife managed (I did say she was brilliant did I not), to purchase from a reputable dealer the same 'New Lens' for £20 less than I had.

The batteries and VG. will remain and the overall savings will be spent at Ffordes as and when. So all good; I think.

With the VG in place, the XT2 has the feel of my old AE1 with the added film drive bolted on. If I get as quick and intuitive with it as I was with the AE1 there will be smiles and smiles to come!

You are right of course about the local dealer demise being regrettable. The competition on price is very difficult for them, I agree. They do tend to recoup that profit margin in the second-hand market with quite large markups on PX stuff but I suppose a profit has to be made somewhere or go bust.

I will not post the shots from yesterday (far too embarrassing) but I can say without a doubt they are impressive examples of a good camera helping out a dodgy photographer. Enlarging to 200% gives the impression that a 6"x4" would still be viable which, the image being taken from 20/30 feet at 24mm is nat too shabby!

Soon as I feel confident in an image I'll stick it up to be ripped apart.

Regards. Sharkey