Intersted in Classic Mac Pro

[nudoru]

I picked up a base 5,1 locally for $200 and have spent a few hundred upgrading it over the past few months. It's a great computer and it's been fun to tinker with one again. Keep an eye on local sales apps (got mine from Nextdoor) and you may find a good deal. There are a few local on Craigslist but they've been upgraded modestly and are >$600 - but they have a full suite of pirated Adobe apps

I picked up set of x5690's from ebay for $150. The cpu's in mine were lidded and I didn't need to delid them. Multicore Geekbench score almost matches my '18 MacBook pro. Bought an Rx 580 4gb from Ebay for $125 and it's working great too. The rest I bought new from Amazon (NVMe, Ram, USB 3.0 card, web cam, etc.)

 

[weezin]

Well, you can always just spend the time to search for a cheaper one on ebay etc., pray it runs, looks as good as prescribed and isn't severly damaged in shipping due to poor packacking .
Saves you maybe 100 bucks, if that .

Thats a good point. For less than $100, probably better to get something I know will be good and how I want it. I hate that I'm so cheap!
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I picked up a base 5,1 locally for $200 and have spent a few hundred upgrading it over the past few months. It's a great computer and it's been fun to tinker with one again. Keep an eye on local sales apps (got mine from Nextdoor) and you may find a good deal. There are a few local on Craigslist but they've been upgraded modestly and are >$600 - but they have a full suite of pirated Adobe apps

I picked up set of x5690's from ebay for $150. The cpu's in mine were lidded and I didn't need to delid them. Multicore Geekbench score almost matches my '18 MacBook pro. Bought an Rx 580 4gb from Ebay for $125 and it's working great too. The rest I bought new from Amazon (NVMe, Ram, USB 3.0 card, web cam, etc.)

Wow, that is a freaking deal! I've been searching CL and Letgo, but didn't think about Nextdoor. Good tip, thanks!

 

[octoviaa]

Try www.aliexpress.com for CPU.
X5675: 27USD, while X5690: 60USD.
I've just order two X5675 for 54 USD.

 

[barmann]

Thats a good point. For less than $100, probably better to get something I know will be good and how I want it. I hate that I'm so cheap!

I hear you, I'm the same .

The thing is, one has to get very lucky or spend a lot of time and effort ( including working in the business or being a nerd ) to get a great deal on an MP 4.1/5.1 .

If you want one in decent shape and factor in average upgrade costs for good performance - without getting lucky, excessive research etc. - you are looking at roughly 1k for a single core cMP with a somewhat decent GPU, fast CPU, RAM and a current SSD .
And 1k would be a pretty good deal for that .

Some numbers people throw around here don't include all the necessary upgrades , repurposed parts and time/money wasted on bad purchases or research and hacking to get things running .

 

[weezin]

Try www.aliexpress.com for CPU.
X5675: 27USD, while X5690: 60USD.
I've just order two X5675 for 54 USD.

Thanks!

I hear you, I'm the same .

The thing is, one has to get very lucky or spend a lot of time and effort ( including working in the business or being a nerd ) to get a great deal on an MP 4.1/5.1 .

If you want one in decent shape and factor in average upgrade costs for good performance - without getting lucky, excessive research etc. - you are looking at roughly 1k for a single core cMP with a somewhat decent GPU, fast CPU, RAM and a current SSD .
And 1k would be a pretty good deal for that .

Some numbers people throw around here don't include all the necessary upgrades , repurposed parts and time/money wasted on bad purchases or research and hacking to get things running .

Yeah, that's probably more than I want to spend total, but I'd probably be doing upgrades slowly. SSDs have come way down in price and I don't need an amazing video card.

I'm seriously considering a single-cpu 4,1 that are at a local Mac repair/resale shop for $400. 30 day warranty and they're local if I need them. I'm finding through my searches that I'd have to get really lucky to get a 4,1 under $400.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

get a 4,1. Do the 5,1 firmware upgrade.

If you really want to stay on a budget, drop in an X5677 for $25. 3.46GHz quad-core. Same cache size and clocks as W3690/X5690, with 2 cores disabled. For any normal task, it'll perform the exact same.

 

[weezin]

get a 4,1. Do the 5,1 firmware upgrade.

If you really want to stay on a budget, drop in an X5677 for $25. 3.46GHz quad-core. Same cache size and clocks as W3690/X5690, with 2 cores disabled. For any normal task, it'll perform the exact same.

Thanks for that. I think that's my plan.

As it turns out, I went to the local Mac resale shop yesterday that I had been to a few days ago (when they told me they had a ton of 4,1s and that I could just pick one). Well, turns out, they had 2 4,1s, one of which was a single-cpu (which is what I want) with a banged up case, the other of which was a dual-cpu that had been upgraded and had a nicer case. Not wanting to spend more than $400 (even that is stretching it for me at the moment), I left empty handed.

One of the guys wondered whether we could swap cases on the single-cpu one with the dual-cpu one. Is that possible? If so, how much work would it be? They seemed like they'd be happy to do it (they're a well respected mac repair shop as well, but just wasn't sure about doing that specific job).

 

[Slash-2CPU]

Thanks for that. I think that's my plan.

As it turns out, I went to the local Mac resale shop yesterday that I had been to a few days ago (when they told me they had a ton of 4,1s and that I could just pick one). Well, turns out, they had 2 4,1s, one of which was a single-cpu (which is what I want) with a banged up case, the other of which was a dual-cpu that had been upgraded and had a nicer case. Not wanting to spend more than $400 (even that is stretching it for me at the moment), I left empty handed.

One of the guys wondered whether we could swap cases on the single-cpu one with the dual-cpu one. Is that possible? If so, how much work would it be? They seemed like they'd be happy to do it (they're a well respected mac repair shop as well, but just wasn't sure about doing that specific job).

Below what I talk about only works if both machines are 4,1.

Cases are interchangeable, but it’s unnecessary. The CPU tray slides out and it’s a simple plug-in swap. Same with drive sleds. Anything in PCIe slots as well can be swapped over. After those 3, you’ve essentially swapped the machines around. Last would be if there’s any difference in optical drives. Those can also be swapped without tools.

You need a #2 Philip’s for the PCIe hold down. Everything else is tool less. 10 minutes tops.

 

[pl1984]

One of the guys wondered whether we could swap cases on the single-cpu one with the dual-cpu one. Is that possible? If so, how much work would it be? They seemed like they'd be happy to do it (they're a well respected mac repair shop as well, but just wasn't sure about doing that specific job).

Yes, it's possible and very easy to do. Just pull the CPU trays and swap them. Should take no more than 5 minutes.

 

[weezin]

Below what I talk about only works if both machines are 4,1.

Cases are interchangeable, but it’s unnecessary. The CPU tray slides out and it’s a simple plug-in swap. Same with drive sleds. Anything in PCIe slots as well can be swapped over. After those 3, you’ve essentially swapped the machines around. Last would be if there’s any difference in optical drives. Those can also be swapped without tools.

You need a #2 Philip’s for the PCIe hold down. Everything else is tool less. 10 minutes tops.

Yes, both machines are 4,1. That's a great point, that would be easily swapable. Hmmmm....

I also just found one of these for sale locally for $400 that looks to be in nice shape: https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_pro/specs/mac-pro-quad-core-2.8-mid-2010-nehalem-specs.html

Looks to me like a 5,1 even though I'm a bit confused that it has the same A1289 number as the 4,1 2009. Is that a "full fledged" 5,1 where I wouldn't need to flash the firmware and could upgrade as wanted?

 

[Slash-2CPU]

If it is the system you linked, then it is a 5,1. No firmware needed to run any of the newer CPUs.

Still requires an Apple-official firmware update if you want to boot from a NVMe PCIe drive.

 

[tsialex]

If it is the system you linked, then it is a 5,1. No firmware needed to run any of the newer CPUs.

Still requires an Apple-official firmware update if you want to boot from a NVMe PCIe drive.

Or to use any macOS version after 10.12.6.

 

[weezin]

If it is the system you linked, then it is a 5,1. No firmware needed to run any of the newer CPUs.

Still requires an Apple-official firmware update if you want to boot from a NVMe PCIe drive.

Or to use any macOS version after 10.12.6.

Gotcha, thanks.

Okay, getting complicated for me and my limited knowledge. Aside from not having to flash firmware and having generally newer components, what is the advantage of a 5,1 over a 4,1? Would there be any reason for me to get a 4,1 single-cpu over the one linked to above given the same price and condition?

I really appreciate all the responses and feedback here...I'd be lost without you all

EDIT: Just realized that the 5,1 I'm looking at is also a single-cpu. It doesn't seem like there's any reason to get a 4,1 single-cpu over this 5,1 I just found. It looks as if there are some marks on the removeable side panel, but is clean elsewhere. I can just swap that out with another one depending on how bad it is.

 

[jscipione]

Unfortunately you're about 4 years late to the optimum Mac Pro lifetime right around 2014 was the right time to buy just after the cylinder Mac Pro had shown to be a market failure. The 5,1 is still the last and most powerful Mac to include full real optical drive slots and PCIe slots and for that reason it will always be a unique and great Mac. The 4 SATA drive slots with no cables is also unique to the tower Mac Pro compared to almost any other Mac or PC. It seems like Mojave will be the last version of macOS for this machine though and pretty soon you'll need a T-series chip just to run macOS. I say save your money for next Mac Pro and its industrial design and God help us that it doesn't suck.

 

[pl1984]

EDIT: Just realized that the 5,1 I'm looking at is also a single-cpu. It doesn't seem like there's any reason to get a 4,1 single-cpu over this 5,1 I just found. It looks as if there are some marks on the removeable side panel, but is clean elsewhere. I can just swap that out with another one depending on how bad it is.

The only reason I can think of is the 5,1 Mac Pro is the only cMP officially supported by Apple with macOS. Otherwise a 4,1 upgraded to 5,1 essentially behaves as a true 5,1. IMO, since cost is a concern, buy a 4,1 as they tend to be less expensive than a true 5,1. You lose nothing by doing so.

 

[weezin]

Unfortunately you're about 4 years late to the optimum Mac Pro lifetime right around 2014 was the right time to buy just after the cylinder Mac Pro had shown to be a market failure. The 5,1 is still the last and most powerful Mac to include full real optical drive slots and PCIe slots and for that reason it will always be a unique and great Mac. The 4 SATA drive slots with no cables is also unique to the tower Mac Pro compared to almost any other Mac or PC. It seems like Mojave will be the last version of macOS for this machine though and pretty soon you'll need a T-series chip just to run macOS. I say save your money for next Mac Pro and its industrial design and God help us that it doesn't suck.

Haha, yeah, I hope that the 7,1 will be great as well. Having said that, I won't be in the market for one until they come down to $400

The only reason I can think of is the 5,1 Mac Pro is the only cMP officially supported by Apple with macOS. Otherwise a 4,1 upgraded to 5,1 essentially behaves as a true 5,1. IMO, since cost is a concern, buy a 4,1 as they tend to be less expensive than a true 5,1. You lose nothing by doing so.

Yeah, good point.

As luck would have it, I purchased the 5,1 I found for $400 (32 gb of ram, SSD installed) on eBay and will be picking it up this week. Literally 30 minutes after I bought that, a 5,1 with 16gb of ram and a 23" Cinema Display showed up locally on craigslist in *perfect* cosmetic shape, also for $400. Well ****. So I decided to buy that one too. I figure I'll pick the one I want, perhaps swap some items and sell the other one.

Being that all the 4,1s I found were $400 or needed shipping, I figured these two 5,1s were a good deal. Yikes!

 

[Slash-2CPU]

32GB of RAM is probably 4x 8GB sticks. All 4,1 / 5,1 Mac Pros have triple-channel memory. You’ll get slightly better performance with 3 sticks in slots 1, 2, and 3 with slot 4 left open.

When all 4 slots are in use, the system changes to dual-channel memory mode. Memory latency stays the same, but bandwidth changes by 33% or 50%.

 

[weezin]

32GB of RAM is probably 4x 8GB sticks. All 4,1 / 5,1 Mac Pros have triple-channel memory. You’ll get slightly better performance with 3 sticks in slots 1, 2, and 3 with slot 4 left open.

When all 4 slots are in use, the system changes to dual-channel memory mode. Memory latency stays the same, but bandwidth changes by 33% or 50%.

Thanks! When you say slightly better performance, I assume you don't mean that taking one of the 8gb sticks out (for a total of 24gb) would be better than leaving the 32gb in?

 

[Slash-2CPU]

I'm running my dual X5690's with 3 sticks per CPU. When I was running a W3690, I ran 3x8GB.

If you're not using more than 8-16GB, then you'll see better performance with 3x8GB. If you're routinely pushing into 19+GB used, then run with 4x8GB. 3x8GB in triple-channel mode will have 50% higher memory bandwidth than 4x8GB. Stated the other way around, 4x8GB in dual-channel mode has 33% less bandwidth than 3x8GB.

Difference is 3-7% in most tasks from what I remember reading.

 

[pl1984]

Thanks! When you say slightly better performance, I assume you don't mean that taking one of the 8gb sticks out (for a total of 24gb) would be better than leaving the 32gb in?

The casual users should put absolutely zero thought into dual versus triple channel memory configurations. For the vast majority of users the appropriate amount of memory, not channel configuration, is beneficial.
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Yeah, good point.

As luck would have it, I purchased the 5,1 I found for $400 (32 gb of ram, SSD installed) on eBay and will be picking it up this week. Literally 30 minutes after I bought that, a 5,1 with 16gb of ram and a 23" Cinema Display showed up locally on craigslist in *perfect* cosmetic shape, also for $400. Well ****. So I decided to buy that one too. I figure I'll pick the one I want, perhaps swap some items and sell the other one.

Being that all the 4,1s I found were $400 or needed shipping, I figured these two 5,1s were a good deal. Yikes!

Very wise to purchase something you could pick up instead of having shipped. Shipping is very problematic for these systems. The prices seem reasonable for a genuine 5,1 (are you certain they're genuine and not upgraded 4,1s?)

 

[weezin]

I'm running my dual X5690's with 3 sticks per CPU. When I was running a W3690, I ran 3x8GB.

If you're not using more than 8-16GB, then you'll see better performance with 3x8GB. If you're routinely pushing into 19+GB used, then run with 4x8GB. 3x8GB in triple-channel mode will have 50% higher memory bandwidth than 4x8GB. Stated the other way around, 4x8GB in dual-channel mode has 33% less bandwidth than 3x8GB.

Difference is 3-7% in most tasks from what I remember reading.

Good to know, thanks!

The casual users should put absolutely zero thought into dual versus triple channel memory configurations. For the vast majority of users the appropriate amount of memory, not channel configuration, is beneficial.
[doublepost=1543849164][/doublepost]
Very wise to purchase something you could pick up instead of having shipped. Shipping is very problematic for these systems. The prices seem reasonable for a genuine 5,1 (are you certain they're genuine and not upgraded 4,1s?)

Yes, they are both legitimate 5,1 machines and I agree, the prices seemed reasonable. Picked up the first one today but haven't had a chance to play with it yet. It's in slightly worse cosmetic condition than I had hoped, but I think some of the marks on it can be removed with some cleaning. Is there a best way to clean these things? It's just aluminum so I would guess almost anything would work.

I'll get the second one on Wednesday most likely.

How did I get myself into this? I'm excited to play around with them and see what they can do.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

Is there a best way to clean these things? It's just aluminum so I would guess almost anything would work.

Exterior, I'd start with a damp terry cloth(wash cloth). Maybe a *tiny* bit of dish soap on the rag if you're dealing with real crud buildup.

It's aluminum, but it's anodized or painted, so no chemicals and definitely no abrasives.

 

[adam9c1]

I’ve heard good success cleaning MacBooks (including screens) with 3M electronics cleaner.

 

[weezin]

Exterior, I'd start with a damp terry cloth(wash cloth). Maybe a *tiny* bit of dish soap on the rag if you're dealing with real crud buildup.

It's aluminum, but it's anodized or painted, so no chemicals and definitely no abrasives.

Thanks!

I’ve heard good success cleaning MacBooks (including screens) with 3M electronics cleaner.

Good to know.

I put a little water on it and it seemed to clean up okay. I'm going to give it a better shot this weekend to see if I can clean it up even more.

Stupidly, I didn't have the correct cable to plug it into my tv to check it out, so I should be getting one today.

I'm going to pick up the other machine today, so I hope that turns out well. Its supposed to be in better shape than the one I already have, so I'm guessing I'll be keeping this one.

 

[weezin]

Okay, so I picked up the second Mac Pro and 23" Cinema Display yesterday and just got it fired up today. It's great!

Turns out it has a 60GB OWC Mercury SSD boot drive and 3 other 1TB drives. RAM is 16gb of OWC. All else is stock.

The cosmetic condition of this machine is significantly better than the other machine I bought, so I think I'll be keeping this one and selling the other one.

I set the Mac Pro up with a clean install of El Capitan (what my other machines are running). Anything I need to do from here? Firmware updates, etc?

So now I want to be thinking about upgrades (although its running quite well as-is). I would love for any upgrade that I do to be without compromise. As an example, a video card that doesn't provide a boot screen or an SSD that can't be booted from are not options for me.

So, in light of that, I think I want to upgrade the following items eventually:

Video Card - What can I get that will run games fairly well (like Battlefield 3/4) but will also work natively with the Mac and is supported under Mojave? Don't want to spend over ~$200 here ideally.

SSD - I'd like a bigger SSD. I know there are NVMe options, etc etc, but frankly, I don't know that it would matter to me (or would it?). The current SSD is mounted in the 2nd optical drive bay and perhaps thats fine for me. Assuming that, what would you recommend? 256gb or around should be good.

Thunderbolt - yes, I know this isn't possible

I'll eventually upgrade the processor I'm sure and perhaps add more ram. For now I think those are good.

I'm stoked to have my first Mac Pro! I sincerely appreciate all of the help you guys have provided.

PS. I love the design of these old Cinema Displays with the white sides and the matte screens. Cool!

Crappy photo: