iPhone iOS 13.1 Beta and 2019 iPhones

[Dwalls90]

iOS 13.1 will be available as a Day Zero Update for all new iPhones. iOS 13 beta 8 will be the version that is installed on new iPhones on launch day, and you will have to update your phone to iOS 13.1 when activating it.

iOS 13.1 will not be released as a zero day update to the public on the same day iOS 13 is released. I agree we may see a zero day update when iOS 13 is released, but it will be either in the form of 13.0.1, or the actual GM of 13.0.0 (which is what's being loaded onto the new iPhones now) will be a different build from beta 8. Keep in mind Apple is internally many builds ahead of what is released even to developers.

It’s highly likely that Apple will make the latest dev beta available for iPhone 11 devices ON launch day just like they did with iPhone X back in November 2017

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/03/apple-releases-ios-11-2-beta-2-iphone-x/

Many of hope so, but Apple isn't obligated to do this.

Fyi regarding beta 8 being Gm: Apple has released a beta as a GM before. I remember times where I ran e.g. beta 9 of a release and the GM did not show up for me because it was the same build as b9. So it can very well be that b8 is this years GM.

What‘s new is the fact that they pushed out the .1 beta before the keynote / GM is available. That‘s a first.

The GM never has a letter attached to the end of the build number, as a letter attached to the end of the build indicates it's a beta. I don't recall Apple releasing betas without a letter at the end of the build number, but if they have, then it was the GM/public release disguised (and likely by mistake).

Apple could of course drop the letter from the beta 8 build, and that could then be the GM build, but in that case, your device would see this an a software update and prompt you to update OTA. GM/public release also strips the feedback app as well as logging files. In summary, beta 8 is not the exact same software as the GM, but I agree it could be more or less a similar build.

 

[TimFL1]

iOS 13.1 will not be released as a zero day update to the public on the same day iOS 13 is released. I agree we may see a zero day update when iOS 13 is released, but it will be either in the form of 13.0.1, or the actual GM of 13.0.0 (which is what's being loaded onto the new iPhones now) will be a different build from beta 8. Keep in mind Apple is internally many builds ahead of what is released even to developers.



Many of hope so, but Apple isn't obligated to do this.



The GM never has a letter attached to the end of the build number, as a letter attached to the end of the build indicates it's a beta. I don't recall Apple releasing betas without a letter at the end of the build number, but if they have, then it was the GM/public release disguised (and likely by mistake).

Apple could of course drop the letter from the beta 8 build, and that could then be the GM build, but in that case, your device would see this an a software update and prompt you to update OTA. GM/public release also strips the feedback app as well as logging files. In summary, beta 8 is not the exact same software as the GM, but I agree it could be more or less a similar build.

I remember one beta update that turned out to be the GM (can‘t recall which one though) and no one on that beta got any OTA update. The letter at the end of the build (including the 5 in the middle that denotes betas), vanished quietly on it‘s own.

 

[one more]

Chances are the iOS 13 GM will release on the day of the event, that’s usually what happens.

I stayed on DB8/PB7 hoping that this would be the case, but it buffles me how will this be possible to install iOS 13.0 GM when currently Apple are actively pushing iOS 13.1 beta to everybody, including the PB testers. How do they expect a PB tester to figure out not to install iOS 13.1 beta, especially if automatic updates were turned on? Unless Apple miraculously come up with a perfectly polished iOS 13.1 by 17-20 Sep, they have an iOS 13.1 time bomb on their hands. The idea that you had to remove a beta profile after installing iOS 13.0 betas 8/7 would not occur to 90% of the public beta testers, the evidence floats everywhere on these forums. It’s going to be quite a tricky iOS launch this year.

 

[poool88]

You are without question wrong. As I said before, its absolutely not a risk of running beta software so stop trying to paint that picture. We signed up to run the beta software of 13.0. If the release software is 13.0 then Apple has without a doubt screwed up here because you are going to have a plethora of people who won't be able to use their backups on their new phone if they've upgraded to iOS 13.1. They are going to have to use 13.1 (which is a buggy mess) until Apple makes it final and then they will be able to restore and use a backup. You can do it on a computer before hand but most people will have no clue how to do that using iTunes and XCode. Stop trying to explain their actions here because they do not make sense and they have without a doubt messed up here.
[doublepost=1567086719][/doublepost]

I understand that, but you don't start on the next version until the first version is complete, which is the entire point. Beta 8 should not be classified as a GM. It still needs a lot of work and its baffling to me that Apple has decided that that is the final software.

you signed up to the ios 13 beta profile, stop

if you used to run beta previous years you would remember that when an official build is released, if you don’t delete the beta profile you will get the next .x beta

one profile -> multiple beta versions

when apple thinks that the 13.1 is ready to the beta seed they release it. if you know what are you doing, when you see 13.1 instead of 13.0 you think if is the case to install it or wait the release of the 13.0, instead of install everything is pushed in the beta seed without thinking.

p.s. sorry for my english
[doublepost=1567098995][/doublepost]

I wouldnt be surprised if the newer phones come with 12.4.1

in my opinion at some point they saw that 13.0 was behind expectations for the bugs remained to solve, and because there was no estimated time left to fix all for the public release they anticipated the date of the release of 13.1 to the beta seed, so they could collect much feedback possible in order to release it in a shorter time after 13.0

 

[Dwalls90]

I remember one beta update that turned out to be the GM (can‘t recall which one though) and no one on that beta got any OTA update. The letter at the end of the build (including the 5 in the middle that denotes betas), vanished quietly on it‘s own.

I think you're right and I recall that one snafu as well. But that was likely someone messing up, and a one-off likely shouldn't be necessarily indicative of what's to come.

 

[poool88]

I think you're right and I recall that one snafu as well. But that was likely someone messing up, and a one-off likely shouldn't be necessarily indicative of what's to come.

if I remember correctly that was an emergency release because of a timezone related bug

 

[Donnation]

you signed up to the ios 13 beta profile, stop

if you used to run beta previous years you would remember that when an official build is released, if you don’t delete the beta profile you will get the next .x beta

one profile -> multiple beta versions

when apple thinks that the 13.1 is ready to the beta seed they release it. if you know what are you doing, when you see 13.1 instead of 13.0 you think if is the case to install it or wait the release of the 13.0, instead of install everything is pushed in the beta seed without thinking.

p.s. sorry for my english
[doublepost=1567098995][/doublepost]
in my opinion at some point they saw that 13.0 was behind expectations for the bugs remained to solve, and because there was no estimated time left to fix all for the public release they anticipated the date of the release of 13.1 to the beta seed, so they could collect much feedback possible in order to release it in a shorter time after 13.0

When Apple releases 13.0 (which is what is going to be released) it is not going to be backward compatible to restore your backup to. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand. It doesnt' matter if you delete the beta profile. You are going to be stuck on 13.1 regardless.

Apple skipped over giving beta testers a final release of 13.0. They moved forward to 13.1. So anyone who buys an iPhone 11 will not be able to restore from backup because the iPhone 11 will come with 13.0.

 

[DeanL]

So anyone who buys an iPhone 11 will not be able to restore from backup because the iPhone 11 will come with 13.0.

That will probably not be true. Last year and the year of the iPhone X, the β profile enabled the iPhone users to download the β although the IPSW was not posted so they could restore their backup on the newly released iPhone.

 

[poool88]

When Apple releases 13.0 (which is what is going to be released) it is not going to be backward compatible to restore your backup to. It doesnt' matter if you delete the beta profile. You are going to be stuck on 13.1 regardless.

Apple skipped over giving beta testers a final release of 13.0. They moved forward to 13.1. So anyone who buys an iPhone 11 will not be able to restore from backup because the iPhone 11 will come with 13.0.

When apple push the 13.1 into the beta seed you can CHOOSE to install it or remove the profile (and stay with 13.0) if you are CONCERNED about the final iOS 13 release.

the profile tells exactly "iOS and iPadOS 13 Beta profile" not 13.1 or 13.0, so that profile enable your device to fetch ALL iOS 13 betas, 13.0 13.1 13.1.X...all of them.

Apple decides what version is ready to enter the beta seed and what version is ready to exit it. if they removed 13.0 from the beta seed is because they think that they need no more feedback about that version, so IF you want to stay with the 13.0 you remove that profile, stay with 13.0 b8 an wait the GM seed / final release.
IF you want to send feedback about 13.1 you maintain the profile and install that version.

p.s. I downgraded from 13.1 to 13.0 in my iPad, too unstable. I think I will install 13.0 final when it will be released.
[doublepost=1567146286][/doublepost]

That will probably not be true. Last year and the year of the iPhone X, the β profile enabled the iPhone users to download the β although the IPSW was not posted so they could restore their backup on the newly released iPhone.

yep, it is a possibility.

I also think that if someone want to buy a new iPhone, maybe he can spend a minute or two in thinking before install a 13.1 in this moment.

 

[n-evo]

I understand that, but you don't start on the next version until the first version is complete, which is the entire point. Beta 8 should not be classified as a GM. It still needs a lot of work and its baffling to me that Apple has decided that that is the final software.

At this point we don't actually know whether or not Beta 8 is the GM. They might as well have a team working on putting the finishing touch on iOS 13, with another one working on 13.1. That said I don't particularly like the way Apple is handling this either. They should be clear about what they plan on doing.

 

[Donnation]

When apple push the 13.1 into the beta seed you can CHOOSE to install it or remove the profile (and stay with 13.0) if you are CONCERNED about the final iOS 13 release.

the profile tells exactly "iOS and iPadOS 13 Beta profile" not 13.1 or 13.0, so that profile enable your device to fetch ALL iOS 13 betas, 13.0 13.1 13.1.X...all of them.

Apple decides what version is ready to enter the beta seed and what version is ready to exit it. if they removed 13.0 from the beta seed is because they think that they need no more feedback about that version, so IF you want to stay with the 13.0 you remove that profile, stay with 13.0 b8 an wait the GM seed / final release.
IF you want to send feedback about 13.1 you maintain the profile and install that version.

p.s. I downgraded from 13.1 to 13.0 in my iPad, too unstable. I think I will install 13.0 final when it will be released.
[doublepost=1567146286][/doublepost]
yep, it is a possibility.

I also think that if someone want to buy a new iPhone, maybe he can spend a minute or two in thinking before install a 13.1 in this moment.

Of course I understand that you don't have to install it, but many people won't. When Apple seeds a beta, especially a public beta, people are just going to download it thinking its the next version of the software to download. There are going to be tons of people who don't realize that they are locking themselves into the beta program until Apple releases 13.1. Its not what people signed up for and Apple should be clear about this when they release a major software release (13.1) when they've never notified people that they were on the final beta of 13.0.

And p.s. You've already installed 13.0 final on your iPad. Beta 8 now has to be the final because Apple isn't doing any more development work on 13.0. What you have is what the final release is so please try and understand that.

 

[m.wttfld]

I don't understand the problem here, iOS 13.1 is fully downgradable to iOS 13.0 without any data loss.

 

[poool88]

Of course I understand that you don't have to install it, but many people won't. When Apple seeds a beta, especially a public beta, people are just going to download it thinking its the next version of the software to download. There are going to be tons of people who don't realize that they are locking themselves into the beta program until Apple releases 13.1. Its not what people signed up for and Apple should be clear about this when they release a major software release (13.1) when they've never notified people that they were on the final beta of 13.0.

we go back to the fact that who installs a beta software has to know what is doing, because is not released/finished software.

And p.s. You've already installed 13.0 final on your iPad. Beta 8 now has to be the final because Apple isn't doing any more development work on 13.0. What you have is what the final release is so please try and understand that.

what you don't understand is that "pulled out from beta seed" is totally different to "Apple isn't doing any more development work". they could finish to fix some issues and test it internally. they send to the beta seed only the software on which they want to collect feedback.
we see only a release every two weeks (one week in late development), but they can potentially release internally a build every day.
[doublepost=1567166962][/doublepost]

At this point we don't actually know whether or not Beta 8 is the GM. They might as well have a team working on putting the finishing touch on iOS 13, with another one working on 13.1. That said I don't particularly like the way Apple is handling this either. They should be clear about what they plan on doing.

I agree

 

[Donnation]

we go back to the fact that who installs a beta software has to know what is doing, because is not released/finished software.


what you don't understand is that "pulled out from beta seed" is totally different to "Apple isn't doing any more development work". they could finish to fix some issues and test it internally. they send to the beta seed only the software on which they want to collect feedback.
we see only a release every two weeks (one week in late development), but they can potentially release internally a build every day.
[doublepost=1567166962][/doublepost]
I agree

Knowing what one is doing has absolutely nothing to do with this. Apple absolutely should not have stopped 13.0 and started 13.1. There is no defending it. 13.0 is what people signed up for with the beta program and Apple has done it the same way every year. Release betas up until the GM on release day and THEN given developers and public beta testers the option of continuing with the dev program for the next release. Its always been that way and thats the ONLY way that makes sense.

Apple isn't collecting feedback on 13.0 anymore and it is done. Whether or not they make some internal changes to it doesn't change the fact that anyone on the dev program will not be able to load that software without downgrading to iOS 12 and then upgrading to iOS 13, and losing everything that they had in between. They cannot seed another 13.0 beta out to the public or developers because they've already pulled the trigger on 13.1. 13.1 is the ONLY build anyone in the dev or public beta program will see moving forward. You won't get some special seed of 13.0 because its not possible now at this point due to the absolute incompetency of Apple in how they handled this.

 

[poool88]

Knowing what one is doing has absolutely nothing to do with this. Apple absolutely should not have stopped 13.0 and started 13.1. There is no defending it. 13.0 is what people signed up for with the beta program and Apple has done it the same way every year.

again again again, you signed up to iOS 13 beta seed, no 13.0, no 13.1..the fact that you continue to repeat it doesn't make is true.

Release betas up until the GM on release day and THEN given developers and public beta testers the option of continuing with the dev program for the next release. Its always been that way and thats the ONLY way that makes sense.

you work in apple dev team? no, so you can't understand what make sense in their release cycle.

Apple isn't collecting feedback on 13.0 anymore and it is done. Whether or not they make some internal changes to it doesn't change the fact that anyone on the dev program will not be able to load that software without downgrading to iOS 12 and then upgrading to iOS 13, and losing everything that they had in between.

the testers can hod the installation of 13.1 and stay on 13.0b8, waiting for the official release.
if you loose data is your problem, not apple's. Apple say that before you start beta testing you have to backup your data (I hope I don't have to explain you why).

They cannot seed another 13.0 beta out to the public or developers because they've already pulled the trigger on 13.1. 13.1 is the ONLY build anyone in the dev or public beta program will see moving forward. You won't get some special seed of 13.0 because its not possible now at this point due to the absolute incompetency of Apple in how they handled this.

they don't seed any more 13.0 because they don't need/want to.
they probably will release 13.0 GM via ipsw on keynote date, if you have 13.0b8 you can update, if you have 13.1 you can also manually downgrade (because we saw that the procedure is *safe enough*).

apple enabling public beta testing is not doing a favor to you, is you that are doing a favor to apple testing unfinished software...so you have to stay to their rules. if you don't like their rules, well next time wait the official release.

 

[Donnation]

again again again, you signed up to iOS 13 beta seed, no 13.0, no 13.1..the fact that you continue to repeat it doesn't make is true.

you work in apple dev team? no, so you can't understand what make sense in their release cycle.

the testers can hod the installation of 13.1 and stay on 13.0b8, waiting for the official release.
if you loose data is your problem, not apple's. Apple say that before you start beta testing you have to backup your data (I hope I don't have to explain you why).

they don't seed any more 13.0 because they don't need/want to.
they probably will release 13.0 GM via ipsw on keynote date, if you have 13.0b8 you can update, if you have 13.1 you can also manually downgrade (because we saw that the procedure is *safe enough*).

apple enabling public beta testing is not doing a favor to you, is you that are doing a favor to apple testing unfinished software...so you have to stay to their rules. if you don't like their rules, well next time wait the official release.

Hahahah ok pal.

 

[n-evo]

Don’t sign up for the betas next time around, Donnation. It’s obvious you’re unable to deal with the slight risks involved.

 

[bmansc]

I don't understand the problem here, iOS 13.1 is fully downgradable to iOS 13.0 without any data loss.

How?