Phones iOS & Blackberry dropping - Windows phone booming!

[freddiecable]

The latest "news":

http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/01/a...ry-down-81-and-windows-phone-up-a-massive-52/

Quite clear that corporate/business users are trying Windows phone.

I still strongly believe that Apple needs to differentiate their mobile phone offer much better! You simply can not fight off the tidal wave of competitors with one or two phones.

 

[MRU]

The latest "news":

http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/01/a...ry-down-81-and-windows-phone-up-a-massive-52/

Quite clear that corporate/business users are trying Windows phone.

I still strongly believe that Apple needs to differentiate their mobile phone offer much better! You simply can not fight off the tidal wave of competitors with one or two phones.

Oh yes iOS with 43% needs to really really sit down and think to itself I'm doing something seriously wrong because windows mobile is just sky-rocketing on 4.3%

Seriously - iOS is just dead. Its quite clear that if you have the biggest selling smartphone in the USA and the second highest OS inside the US despite being beaten by Android which is more than a dozen manufacturers, then you must be failing and now must pay heed to these clever 'self-analysts' that perpetuate the myth of your great demise on forums.

That tidal wave you predict is a veritable sunami (in a goldfish bowl)......

 

[TheHateMachine]

Oh yes iOS with 43% needs to really really sit down and think to itself I'm doing something seriously wrong because windows mobile is just sky-rocketing on 4.3%

Seriously - iOS is just dead. Its quite clear that if you have the biggest selling smartphone in the USA and the second highest OS inside the US despite being beaten by Android which is more than a dozen manufacturers, then you must be failing and now must pay heed to these clever 'self-analysts' that perpetuate the myth of your great demise on forums.

That tidal wave you predict is a veritable sunami (in a goldfish bowl)......

It is Kantar Worldpanel too! One of the biggest Apple loyalists when it came to reporting market share. Everyone would bring forth data and Kantar would always be the only ones offering up highly contradictory data in favor of Apple. I guess they must have rid themselves of their stake in Apple shares because they aren't trying to paint rosy pictures about Cupertino anymore.

 

[Liquorpuki]

The BB Z10 wasn't even out in Feb 13. Kinda dumb to include BB and act like it means something when their flagship phone didn't even hit the market yet.

Between Feb 12 and Feb 13, WP8 launched, which is the main reason WP went up 50%. Nothing to do with corporate penetration.

iPhones are the most differentiated phones on the market - nobody confuses them with other phones. Their problem isn't differentiation - it's that the OS has gotten stale. If they don't fix this by iOS 7, the brand will take a hit.

 

[0dev]

The BB Z10 wasn't even out in Feb 13. Kinda dumb to include BB and act like it means something when their flagship phone didn't even hit the market yet.

Between Feb 12 and Feb 13, WP8 launched, which is the main reason WP went up 50%. Nothing to do with corporate penetration.

iPhones are the most differentiated phones on the market - nobody confuses them with other phones. Their problem isn't differentiation - it's that the OS has gotten stale. If they don't fix this by iOS 7, the brand will take a hit.

This is basically it in a nutshell.

And while sales of older generation BlackBerries fell, they sold a million Z10's in just a couple of months. Gotta give them credit there.

 

[Peterg2]

This is basically it in a nutshell.

And while sales of older generation BlackBerries fell, they sold a million Z10's in just a couple of months. Gotta give them credit there.

People continue confusing *shipped* vs "sold". When Thorsten Heins was quizzed on what quantity was actually *sold* he opined somewhere between 2/3 to 3/4 of them. Still decent.

 

[samab]

It is Kantar Worldpanel too! One of the biggest Apple loyalists when it came to reporting market share. Everyone would bring forth data and Kantar would always be the only ones offering up highly contradictory data in favor of Apple. I guess they must have rid themselves of their stake in Apple shares because they aren't trying to paint rosy pictures about Cupertino anymore.

Yup, read the fine print and all you get is Kantar Worldpanel's numbers came from their "surveys" and not based on any actual sales numbers.

 

[.macbookpro.]

iPhones are the most differentiated phones on the market - nobody confuses them with other phones. Their problem isn't differentiation - it's that the OS has gotten stale. If they don't fix this by iOS 7, the brand will take a hit.

I've never heard anyone say "is that an samsung?" or "is that an iPhone?" when they see my HTC 8x. Windows Phones are the most unique and different. Nobody can confuse a windows phone for something else.

 

[0dev]

I've never heard anyone say "is that an samsung?" or "is that an iPhone?" when they see my HTC 8x. Windows Phones are the most unique and different. Nobody can confuse a windows phone for something else.

Probably because no one cares about Windows Phone

In all seriousness, Windows Phones all look the same. HTC is just copying Nokia's multicoloured designs now. Which, yes, do stand out a little, but putting some different colours on a phone isn't exactly unique.

 

[.macbookpro.]

Probably because no one cares about Windows Phone

In all seriousness, Windows Phones all look the same. HTC is just copying Nokia's multicoloured designs now. Which, yes, do stand out a little, but putting some different colours on a phone isn't exactly unique.

Do you mean the hardware or the software? I'm talking about the software, which is very different and unique. The hardware between manufacturers of windows Phones is also unique. Nokia's are heavier, thicker, bigger and shinier than HTCs, which are much taller, thinner, lighter, have a matt finish. Samsungs are just obvious, boring, look like android devices.

 

[0dev]

Do you mean the hardware or the software? I'm talking about the software, which is very different and unique. The hardware between manufacturers of windows Phones is also unique. Nokia's are heavier, thicker, bigger and shinier than HTCs, which are much taller, thinner, lighter, have a matt finish. Samsungs are just obvious, boring, look like android devices.

I was referring to the hardware. The software is unique yes. I quite like the software actually, and Nokia's hardware too, I just don't think the hardware is unique.

 

[Irishman]

The BB Z10 wasn't even out in Feb 13. Kinda dumb to include BB and act like it means something when their flagship phone didn't even hit the market yet.

Between Feb 12 and Feb 13, WP8 launched, which is the main reason WP went up 50%. Nothing to do with corporate penetration.

iPhones are the most differentiated phones on the market - nobody confuses them with other phones. Their problem isn't differentiation - it's that the OS has gotten stale. If they don't fix this by iOS 7, the brand will take a hit.

The Z10 won't help BB's bottom line that much. People have passed on it, and are waiting on the Q10.

----------

The latest "news":

http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/01/a...ry-down-81-and-windows-phone-up-a-massive-52/

Quite clear that corporate/business users are trying Windows phone.

I still strongly believe that Apple needs to differentiate their mobile phone offer much better! You simply can not fight off the tidal wave of competitors with one or two phones.

I'm trying to figure out why the headline doesn't match the news here.

Windows Phone 8 is now available to try out. There are a tiny number of people who are trying it out. Could it be that Venture Beat is trying to attract more readers/fish with a little click bait?

----------

This is basically it in a nutshell.

And while sales of older generation BlackBerries fell, they sold a million Z10's in just a couple of months. Gotta give them credit there.

They sold 1 million Zed 10s but lost 3 million customers in the last quarter (the second straight quarterly drop).

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/blackberry-sells-1m-z10s-loses-3m-subscribers/2013-03-28

Their balance sheet ain't looking that encouraging.

Is the Z10 worth it??

 

[0dev]

They sold 1 million Zed 10s but lost 3 million customers in the last quarter (the second straight quarterly drop).

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/blackberry-sells-1m-z10s-loses-3m-subscribers/2013-03-28

Their balance sheet ain't looking that encouraging.

Is the Z10 worth it??

That's because sales of old BlackBerries are dropping, which is to be expected.

Why don't you think their balance sheet is encouraging? They made a decent profit and sales will only improve when the Q10 drops.

 

[Irishman]

That's because sales of old BlackBerries are dropping, which is to be expected.

Why don't you think their balance sheet is encouraging? They made a decent profit and sales will only improve when the Q10 drops.

I can't imagine the Z10 will reach 2 million units, ESPECIALLY once the Q10 comes out. BB hasn't just lost sales of their other phones, that article linked to BB users who aren't BB users anymore - at all. They find nothing compelling in BB's stable of phones to keep them there for 2 more years.

So they're going elsewhere.

Two consecutive quarters of user loss just as you're bringing out your new OS and flagship phone? That SHOULD be enough to avoid losing 3 times as many users as you're selling of the Z10.

But it's not. That's the scary spot BB is in now.

 

[samab]

I can't imagine the Z10 will reach 2 million units, ESPECIALLY once the Q10 comes out.

Even the Playbook has sold more than 2.3 million units now.

 

[Irishman]

Even the Playbook has sold more than 2.3 million units now.

Most of those did not happen within the past 2 quarters.

 

[samab]

Most of those did not happen within the past 2 quarters.

They sold a million Playbooks in the last year (500K in the last 2 quarters).

Your claims are wildly exaggerated.

 

[Irishman]

They sold a million Playbooks in the last year (500K in the last 2 quarters).

Your claims are wildly exaggerated.

My "wildly exaggerated claims" are that the Playbook sales have little in common with Z10 sales because one is a tablet and one is a smartphone running BB10.

What is your point in introducing the Playbook as though is communicates something important to the discussion about the Z10??

 

[0dev]

I can't imagine the Z10 will reach 2 million units, ESPECIALLY once the Q10 comes out. BB hasn't just lost sales of their other phones, that article linked to BB users who aren't BB users anymore - at all. They find nothing compelling in BB's stable of phones to keep them there for 2 more years.

What are you basing these claims on? They have already sold a million Z10's in the past two months and around 50% of Z10 buyers are new BlackBerry customers. They've managed to do this without even releasing a BB10 device with a physical keyboard, which is basically their signature feature.

Two consecutive quarters of user loss just as you're bringing out your new OS and flagship phone? That SHOULD be enough to avoid losing 3 times as many users as you're selling of the Z10.

But it's not. That's the scary spot BB is in now.

Again, the users are defecting from older generation BlackBerries.

Let me use pictures since you don't seem to understand the difference.

People are buying less of these:

But, instead, they're buying more of these:

 

[samab]

My "wildly exaggerated claims" are that the Playbook sales have little in common with Z10 sales because one is a tablet and one is a smartphone running BB10.

What is your point in introducing the Playbook as though is communicates something important to the discussion about the Z10??

Even the most criticized product, a product that was penned to be a major failure --- managed to sell more than 2 million units. That's my point.

H.e.l.l. they managed to sell the first million units without a native email client.

 

[Irishman]

What are you basing these claims on? They have already sold a million Z10's in the past two months and around 50% of Z10 buyers are new BlackBerry customers. They've managed to do this without even releasing a BB10 device with a physical keyboard, which is basically their signature feature.



Again, the users are defecting from older generation BlackBerries.

Let me use pictures since you don't seem to understand the difference.

People are buying less of these:

Image

But, instead, they're buying more of these:

Image

Incorrect. The article I linked to above clarifies the reality that BB sold 1 million Z10s, BUT, and here's the oh-so-important part - they LOST 3 million subscribers. This cannot be spun into a victory for BB, those 3 million people did NOT throw their old Bolds away and resubscribe with the Z10!

 

[0dev]

Incorrect. The article I linked to above clarifies the reality that BB sold 1 million Z10s, BUT, and here's the oh-so-important part - they LOST 3 million subscribers. This cannot be spun into a victory for BB, those 3 million people did NOT throw their old Bolds away and resubscribe with the Z10!

Subscribers means people using the BIS network. You do realise that the Z10 does not require people to use the BIS network, yes?

Plus, in terms of the company performance as a whole, they just made a $98m profit in the last quarter. Considering they've done that despite making a massive loss just a year earlier, I'd say they're already recovering very well and as long as developers put out BB10 apps I have full confidence BlackBerries will be around for some time yet.

And like I said, over 50% of Z10 customers are new to BlackBerry. They're bringing in new customers with BB10 already.

 

[Tinmania]

Again, the users are defecting from older generation BlackBerries.

Yes and a disturbing number--for Blackberry--are not choosing Blackberry at all for their next device.

I think even BB knows the race they are in is for 3rd place.



Michael

 

[0dev]

Yes and a disturbing number--for Blackberry--are not choosing Blackberry at all for their next device.

I think even BB knows the race they are in is for 3rd place.



Michael

No one's claiming they're about to overtake Apple and Samsung, that absolutely won't happen anytime soon, but they still have a place in the market.

The smartphone market, however, is very fickle. It used to be owned by BlackBerries, then it was Apple, now it's Samsung, and eventually it'll be someone else. Mainly this is because all these companies fall into the trap of sticking to what they know and not innovating until they're forced to due to increasing competition (iOS is the same as it was in 2007, BlackBerries were same as they were in 2004 until recently, the S4 is functionally the same as the S3).

No one stays at the top for long in this game anyway. Staying at the top forever doesn't matter - what matters is still serving your customers and making money, both of which BlackBerry is currently doing.

 

[Tinmania]

No one's claiming they're about to overtake Apple and Samsung, that absolutely won't happen anytime soon, but they still have a place in the market.

The smartphone market, however, is very fickle. It used to be owned by BlackBerries, then it was Apple, now it's Samsung, and eventually it'll be someone else. Mainly this is because all these companies fall into the trap of sticking to what they know and not innovating until they're forced to due to increasing competition (iOS is the same as it was in 2007, BlackBerries were same as they were in 2004 until recently, the S4 is functionally the same as the S3).

No one stays at the top for long in this game anyway. Staying at the top forever doesn't matter - what matters is still serving your customers and making money, both of which BlackBerry is currently doing.

The problem for BB is they didn't build an empire of the willing. Apple and Samsung did. The backbone of BB's success was that it was sold to enterprise, and given to users with little choice. The consumer chosen market of BB didn't hold up to competition. Apple at least is still holding their own--certainly they are profit-wise.

As for 3rd place I would say that has a lot riding on how much MS is willing to throw into it.



Michael