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Credit to @Dave-Z who does those network stuff. Fantastic.
Regarding Apple software and privacy claim, I notice that iOS has a remote assistant client built in, which can be activated by Apple support staff. This client is completely hidden from normal users, and I would never realise it if my Apple Watch did not act a bit funky. In summary, such tool could be hacked and someone would be able to see what you are doing on the screen, in real time, and end user would never get any notification or something similar.

Another pet peeve when using iOS devices is any sort of built in management software is woefully lacking. I can see the point that such software is hidden from normal user, but I cannot even fine tune settings and lock down certain features (disable pop ups requesting changing notification settings for example), let alone disabling software update completely. Windows has group policy editor to achieve the same goal, but no such tool in iOS, nor macOS provide any way to manage iOS devices like that.

In summary, maybe we should not just blindly believe “Apple cares about our privacy”. I know I would not “just believe” anymore.
 
I'm not talking about the software. I bought a phone. I must be able to make calls with it, because that's what a phone is for.
But Apple says no, we won't allow you to do anything unless you connect to the internet first and have your device registered with us. And if you don't want to register, then tough luck, you can cram that device up your arse for all we care, or use it as a door stop.
I'm sure there's some legal loophole that allows them to do that, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Of course, in practice that's no big deal - there are wi-fi hotspots everywhere, you just connect to one, and that's it. It's just annoying as a matter of principle - the seller imposing conditions on the use of your device.

Forget it. That's not how it works. I am convinced, if Apple wants to, they could disable and wipe the complete thing on the spot and you can't do anything about it. If you want to have full control over your device, you would need to create your own smartphone first, or atleast have your own software written for it. iOS itself would need to be jailbroken, otherwise it's not truly yours and cannot gain more control without jailbreaking it first, and i have never felt the need to jailbreak, mind you, and i use iOS devices for almost 7 years now.

You just use the phone at this point, you also have to agree to various Terms & Conditions after the expensive purchase of the phone.
 
In that case, which tech companies do care about privacy beyond their PR statements? Not rhetorical. Name them.
Red Hat, Inc.

The alternative are GNU/Linux systems from Red Hat. From the user's point of view there is Fedora, CentOS for the desktop.




 
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I like Debian, but RHEL is definitely solid.
Yes. :)

I myself don't like centralized systems like iOS. Which is also propietary. Of all current mobile operating systems, iOS is the worst. It cannot be set up without activation as some users have said here.

In case Apple no longer exists. Then the devices can no longer be used because the servers are off (activation error). I once read reports a few years ago. That some iOS users were already unable to activate their iOS devices because the servers were overloaded, the wifi chip was broken, or there were random bugs. You get stuck in the setup window.

I don't know of any other mobile operating system that is so centralized. even the computer from my old school (still running Windows 95) doesn't have this limitation.

It is very good that there are alternatives. But I think there won't be an alternative soon. It's the rule.

What do you think the future will be like?
 
What do you think the future will be like?
It would be a far more centralised world which everyone shares the same mind with Overmind, or something similar. I can already see Apple taking away options and choices from end users, essentially nullifying the fact that you “own” the hardware. I am not gonna be too surprised if Apple removes the ability to buy the device outright, and users can no longer restart or shutdown iPhone because there is no physical button.
 
Red Hat, Inc.

The alternative are GNU/Linux systems from Red Hat. From the user's point of view there is Fedora, CentOS for the desktop.

You realize that RHEL requires every server be registered and signed into RHSM to receive updates? And that analytics are uploaded to them (Red Hat Insights)?

It's worse than Microsoft because you have to tie it into an account. Thus they have the name and address of every RHEL user and their computer information. Windows activation is at least anonymous.

They do this for DRM/activation: they charge as much as $9800 per year for a single server.

And on top of that, you must pay per year for updates. You stop paying, you stop receiving updates.
 
You realize that RHEL requires every server be registered and signed into RHSM to receive updates? And that analytics are uploaded to them (Red Hat Insights)?

It's worse than Microsoft because you have to tie it into an account. Thus they have the name and address of every RHEL user and their computer information. Windows activation is at least anonymous.

They do this for DRM/activation: they charge as much as $9800 per year for a single server.
it depends on what you want to do. Fedora would probably be something for the consumers.

As a user you can download it normally on the website and copy it to a USB stick. Then install it on your hard drive as your main system or as a second system. As you like.
 
Of all current mobile operating systems, iOS is the worst. It cannot be set up without activation as some users have said here.

That is incorrect. Android since 5.1 requires you to sign in with a Google account to activate every time the phone is factory reset.

This is a result of California's 2015 smart phone anti-theft law, so all smartphones do this.
 
That is incorrect. Android since 5.1 requires you to sign in with a Google account to activate every time the phone is factory reset.

This is a result of California's smart phone anti-theft law, so all smartphones do this.
I don't know if you looked closely.

But every android version you can set up without google account. You just have to click on the "skip" button.

Most of the time it is at the bottom right.
 
I don't know if you looked closely.

But every android version you can set up without google account. You just have to click on the "skip" button.

Most of the time it is at the bottom right.

I'm going to be more specific: California law requires a smartphone kill switch. Thus all smartphones must check in and activate with a server, particularly after a factory reset. This includes Android.

Your argument that iOS requires activation does not hold water since all smartphones require centralized server activation since 2015.



 
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Here if don't want to use iOS and other Apple systems anymore.


 
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@konqerror
That's not an android problem. But the laws in california. if the peoples in california don't want the laws. Please change it. Otherwise everything will get restricted and dependent. You can also install android without google or buy an android device outside of california.

iOS is server dependent anywhere in the world because of its activation. regardless of the laws of different countries worldwide.
 
@konqerror
That's not an android problem. But the laws in california. if the peoples in california don't want the laws. Please change it. Otherwise everything will get restricted and dependent. You can also install android without google or buy an android device outside of california.

iOS is server dependent anywhere in the world because of its activation. regardless of the laws of different countries worldwide.

That's incorrect. While those laws only apply in specific states, Apple, Google, Samsung etc. implement the same activation feature worldwide. That feature does lead to lower smartphone thefts and increases user safety.

Most users want a reduction in theft and especially muggings over some theoretical if Google goes bankrupt concern.

This is the same with many other features. India required their phones have an alarm function for sexual assault prevention, and all phones implemented it worldwide (Emergency SOS on Apple).

Part of it is they simply can't have the supply chain for a CA-only phone.
 
That's incorrect. While those laws only apply in specific states, Apple, Google, Samsung etc. implement the same activation feature worldwide. That feature does lead to lower smartphone thefts and increases user safety.

Most users want a reduction in theft and especially muggings over some theoretical if Google goes bankrupt concern.

This is the same with many other features. India required their phones have an alarm function for sexual assault prevention, and all phones implemented it worldwide (Emergency SOS on Apple).

Part of it is they simply can't have the supply chain for a CA-only phone.
According to your report, this kill switch is in california and is enabled by default. But in the other countries it is not enabled by default. Because there are no laws there.

Your other answer about emergency SOS now has something to do with this topic?

It was about the setup that only iOS devices without internet activation cannot be used and supposedly android devices from california.

Besides, no one is forcing you to continue supporting these systems.

You can achieve more if you support decentralized systems. Android without google service and GNU/Linux.
 
According to your report, this kill switch is in california and is enabled by default. But in the other countries it is not enabled by default. Because there are no laws there.

No, there are no laws requiring kill switch in every place worldwide, but all the manufacturers implement it all the same. Go try it.

Your arguments are based on an anticipated problem, if Google and Apple go bankrupt. However, the real problem is phones get stolen, sometimes violently, and people even die.

Real problems are more important than imagined problems.

 
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@konqerror
I never said that it's only bankrupt when it comes to Apple or google. It was just my opinion and would be the worst situation.

i've also already said that i read reports years ago that some ios users can't activate their devices because of random bugs, wifi chip is broken etc..

there are a lot of reasons. The reasons are irrelevant. nevertheless iOS is a centralized system, no matter where you are in the world. Independent of the laws of the different countries.

Android with google not, only if the laws change. then all mobile systems must activate it by default (according to their report from california). But people don't have to accept the law. They can undo it again.

phones get stolen, sometimes violently and what you say is a problem of society.
 
@konqerror
I never said that it's only bankrupt when it comes to Apple or google. It was just my opinion and would be the worst situation.

i've also already said that i read reports years ago that some ios users can't activate their devices because of random bugs, wifi chip is broken etc..

there are a lot of reasons. The reasons are irrelevant. nevertheless iOS is a centralized system, no matter where you are in the world. Independent of the laws of the different countries.

Android with google not, only if the laws change. then all mobile systems must activate it by default (according to their report from california). But people don't have to accept the law. They can undo it again.

phones get stolen, sometimes violently and what you say is a problem of society.

I don't think the reasons are irrelevant. Without reasons the topic is pointless.

Google acquired Android to push their core business, marketing. Advertising with Google is effective because they put their services on everything. Windows, MacOS, iOS, Android etc....

Android doesn't need Google just like Windows does need Dell. Google services wouldn't work but like iOS you could download replacements.

Support is offered through the OEM's of the smartphone which all run their own versions/skins of Android. A manufacturer can stop supporting a device and if you can't/don't want to root/rom it then its left in the dust.

iOS and iPhones are specifically tailored for each other. iOS is specific to the device.

You can activate an iPhone with wifi, cellular or iTunes. If all the hardware is broken (cellular radio, wifi radio, and lightning port) then you have a smartphone that can't make phone calls, use the internet or even charge....so I'd say the activation issues are the least of your worries.

If you don't have the internet then a smartphone (smart meaning network supplemented) then you bought the wrong phone.

I have no doubt people have had bugs activating an iPhone however that is specifically why there is a network check. Device type and iOS validity is checked to make sure it will work. If iOS is corrupted or something that is the time it will fix it. They also want to offer the latest version of iOS, if iOS is too old apps won't even be compatible with it.

The next reason you need an internet connection is because your AppleID will likely require 2 factor device authentication for security. It will send your other devices a warning and location, you can agree to it which will then give you a passcode on your other devices to input into the new iPhone. This is very effective against identity theft. This also doesn't require two devices but it will utilize it.

At that point the device is activation locked to your AppleID. You have access to locate it, lock it and remote wipe it from anything including a web browser.

If Apple shut down the iOS servers or something crazy happened and they all went down (thousands around the planet) you would indeed have trouble using the phone if it was even usable at all. But so far the are doing leaps and bounds better than most Android OEM's with support.

I'm not knocking Android, I actually like it. I just prefer the iPhone with iOS and the overall experience it provides.
 
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I don't think the reasons are irrelevant. Without reasons the topic is pointless.

Google acquired Android to push their core business, marketing. Advertising with Google is effective because they put their services on everything. Windows, MacOS, iOS, Android etc....

Android doesn't need Google just like Windows does need Dell. Google services wouldn't work but like iOS you could download replacements.

Support is offered through the OEM's of the smartphone which all run their own versions/skins of Android. A manufacturer can stop supporting a device and if you can't/don't want to root/rom it then its left in the dust.

iOS and iPhones are specifically tailored for each other. iOS is specific to the device.

You can activate an iPhone with wifi, cellular or iTunes. If all the hardware is broken (cellular radio, wifi radio, and lightning port) then you have a smartphone that can't make phone calls, use the internet or even charge....so I'd say the activation issues are the least of your worries.

If you don't have the internet then a smartphone (smart meaning network supplemented) then you bought the wrong phone.

I have no doubt people have had bugs activating an iPhone however that is specifically why there is a network check. Device type and iOS validity is checked to make sure it will work. If iOS is corrupted or something that is the time it will fix it. They also want to offer the latest version of iOS, if iOS is too old apps won't even be compatible with it.

The next reason you need an internet connection is because your AppleID will likely require 2 factor device authentication for security. It will send your other devices a warning and location, you can agree to it which will then give you a passcode on your other devices to input into the new iPhone. This is very effective against identity theft. This also doesn't require two devices but it will utilize it.

At that point the device is activation locked to your AppleID. You have access to locate it, lock it and remote wipe it from anything including a web browser.

If Apple shut down the iOS servers or something crazy happened and they all went down (thousands around the planet) you would indeed have trouble using the phone if it was even usable at all. But so far the are doing leaps and bounds better than most Android OEM's with support.

I'm not knocking Android, I actually like it. I just prefer the iPhone with iOS and the overall experience it provides.
The reasons you give are irrelevant or wrong, because they have nothing to do with the activation. See below about Apple ID.

The activation is the biggest concern, because the first step is to use a device. This also applies to the other areas e.g Apps installation, file management. It shows what Apple always wanted. A centralized system.

The Apple ID and functions that need an Apple ID are only optional.

Best you read the posts of @Dave-Z and @Banglazed. They use Apple devices and know more about it.


 
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The reasons you give are irrelevant or wrong, because they have nothing to do with the activation. See below about Apple ID.

The activation is the biggest concern, because the first step is to use a device. This also applies to the other areas e.g Apps installation, file management. It shows what Apple always wanted. A centralized system.

The Apple ID and functions that need an Apple ID are only optional.

Best you read the posts of @Dave-Z and @Banglazed. They use Apple devices and know more about it.



There are irrelevant steps such as language, regions, Siri, FaceID/TouchID etc however when setting up and iPhone it ask you for internet via cellular, wifi, or iTunes via USB. That step can not be skipped and that is the step that lets Apple verify iOS.

Then it ask for your AppleID or to make a new one. This step can be skipped, at least temporarily. In this regard this is very similar to Android with Google services. You can skip the initial log in however you can not access any Apple or Google services.

What is the privacy concern? Even if someone stole/hacked your phone at that exact moment, there is nothing on it aside from the base apps. And until you put your AppleID in you won't have access to your Apple data, iMessage, iCloud data (photos, calendar, notes, etc etc). Once you do sign in with your AppleID the device and gain access to that information it will also be activation locked.

Screenshot 2019-11-01 at 3.49.56 AM.png


Your suggestion for me reading the thread brings up a good point about security and privacy. Dave mentioned mysterious servers collecting data. Apple does not release much (if any at all) information about their API severs such as api.smoot.apple.com for security reasons. Apple even goes as far as making it difficult to see what API it is and which app is using it.

API attacks can be very powerful. Remember when Equifax was hacked and near 150 million social security numbers were stolen? That was an API attack...

The end user doesn't need information about Apples API servers and its not worth attempting to just to satisfy someones curiosity. Banks don't let you in the fault to see where your deposits are going. However because of Apples control of everything (centralization?) they can minimize any/most methods of attack.

iOS isn't open source, locked down and verified (like on activation and on updates via checksum) which makes reversing engineering their API incredibly difficult (realistically impossible?). Their API servers are specifically built for security handling API data (I looked up api.smoot.apple.com's SSL here ,that will take about 90 seconds to completely load).

I'm fairly sure that Smoot API is related to getting your location for accurate local search results. This data is sent encrypted to Apple specifically for privacy. The data collected on you that is used for marketing is anonymized with a group of 5,000 other people with similar habits and traits as you. That anonymous identifier can be limited and/or reset in the Privacy settings on the iPhone. And if you are really concerned you can goto your account Name, Phone Numbers, Email, See how your data is managed and click on the link....

IMG_6870.png


Apple will send you all the data they collected from you. All this stuff is clearly explained on the device.

Privacy isn't better than not having a smartphone at all however they are very open about how your data is used, what the data is, how data is anonymized. Checking mysterious servers results and finding servers that are using good security for the specific task right at the gate. And when the opportunity arises for (activation and updates) the OS is verified (hash data like md5sum used to verify a Linux distro) to prevent manipulation of the OS to prevent even an attempt of accessing Apple servers in an unintended manor. This is why Apple patches jailbreaks referencing them as security updates btw.
 
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There are irrelevant steps such as language, regions, Siri, FaceID/TouchID etc however when setting up and iPhone it ask you for internet via cellular, wifi, or iTunes via USB.
I would like to add some details here. You also need to have an internet connection on iTunes for activate an iPhone.
If you do a factory reset on the device. It must be reactivated.

Then it ask for your AppleID or to make a new one. This step can be skipped, at least temporarily. In this regard this is very similar to Android with Google services. You can skip the initial log in however you can not access any Apple or Google services.
This is correct. Login with Apple ID or Google Account appears in setup screen. Both can be skipped.
You forgot something on an Android with or without Google services.

If you like, you can download and install the apps directly with your Android device from the f-droid or github page. If users miss some apps, they can download them from the Play Store.

You can also save the apps. You can transfer the apps to your PC or to a second Android device.

Nothing new like on a desktop operating system.

Your suggestion for me reading the thread brings up a good point about security and privacy. Dave mentioned mysterious servers collecting data. Apple does not release much (if any at all) information about their API severs such as api.smoot.apple.com for security reasons. Apple even goes as far as making it difficult to see what API it is and which app is using it.

API attacks can be very powerful. Remember when Equifax was hacked and near 150 million social security numbers were stolen? That was an API attack...
The end user doesn't need information about Apples API servers and its not worth attempting to just to satisfy someones curiosity.
Dave did not only mean the API server, but also the other Apple domains. And Microsoft has no problems keeping documentation about what their domains do and how to disable them.


The API attack from the report actually shows who is responsible for it.

" Yet those responsible for managing these risks have simply looked the other way instead of securing their APIs."

The report also states that very large companies (paypal, instagram, amazon) have already had these attacks.

It is very good that it is known and the security vulnerabilities has been fixed. Otherwise there are backdoors that would not only exploit the hackers.

It's not just about the end user. There are also developers, security researchers and other people. Also, these people are a user at the same time.

iOS isn't open source, locked down and verified (like on activation and on updates via checksum) which makes reversing engineering their API incredibly difficult (realistically impossible?). Their API servers are specifically built for security handling API data (I looked up api.smoot.apple.com's SSL here ,that will take about 90 seconds to completely load).

I'm fairly sure that Smoot API is related to getting your location for accurate local search results. This data is sent encrypted to Apple specifically for privacy. The data collected on you that is used for marketing is anonymized with a group of 5,000 other people with similar habits and traits as you. That anonymous identifier can be limited and/or reset in the Privacy settings on the iPhone. And if you are really concerned you can goto your account Name, Phone Numbers, Email, See how your data is managed and click on the link....
Yes iOS isn't open source. But still a Unix-like system. Android is also Unix-like systen.



I don't know of any other mobile operating system for the end user that requires activation in order to use the device.

Even macOS does not (yet) have this limitation. I guess Apple will also try to limit it here and bring macOS closer to iOS. You can only set up your Mac device if you do an internet activation.

The software will then only be available in the App Store. I don't think this with the App Store. Apple will rather discontinue the Mac section.






it is not only about this API server, but also about other servers from apple.

You can set options to off. but still it gets connected and other things. Read the posts and you see that the statements of Apple and the media etc... is not true. That's exactly what the end consumers take in marketing videos, statements and think Apple takes care of your privacy. If you turn off some options. But in the background it continues.

If you look at the privacy scandals, Apple has never solved the problems on its own before.

Probably it was reported (years ago) by developers or users, as you. But Apple never wanted to fix it before, because they also want to collect a lot of data for their services.

Even encryption won't do you any good. When quantum computers appear in the future and older encryption technologies can crack.

You yourself don't know if Apple has deleted the old encrypted data. You have to trust Apple blindly. Once you're affected, don't expect too much help from Apple. Apple has always wanted to build a centralized system.

This is why Apple patches jailbreaks referencing them as security updates btw.
That's not entirely correct. Apple is not patching the jailbreak. Apple patches security vulnerabilities.

A jailbreak is possible due to an existing vulnerability. The vulnerability makes the operating system insecure, not the jailbreak, because the vulnerability was present before the jailbreak or is still present without the jailbreak.
 
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