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BIGSHOTT

macrumors newbie
Apr 7, 2022
23
5
I just did the calibration and listened to some spatial tracks... No front back, just side to side. It sounds nice, but it isn't surround by any stretch of the imagination. I have a lot of this music in 5.1 and know what the surround mix sounds like. This ain't it. I think this ear scan is a placebo device.

Without scanning shoulders, head and ear canal, this isn't an HRTF calibration. It's a gimmick.
 
Last edited:

paulchiu

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 26, 2009
423
355
nyc
I just did the calibration and listened to some spatial tracks... No front back, just side to side. It sounds nice, but it isn't surround by any stretch of the imagination. I have a lot of this music in 5.1 and know what the surround mix sounds like. This ain't it. I think this ear scan is a placebo device.
Try listening to Blackpink's Pink Venom track on either Apple Music lossless or Youtube straight.
Rotate your head 180 degrees.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,256
7,280
Seattle
I just did the calibration and listened to some spatial tracks... No front back, just side to side. It sounds nice, but it isn't surround by any stretch of the imagination. I have a lot of this music in 5.1 and know what the surround mix sounds like. This ain't it. I think this ear scan is a placebo device.

Without scanning shoulders, head and ear canal, this isn't an HRTF calibration. It's a gimmick.
But were you listening to a track with lossless compression? 😆
 

paulchiu

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 26, 2009
423
355
nyc
I just did the calibration and listened to some spatial tracks... No front back, just side to side. It sounds nice, but it isn't surround by any stretch of the imagination. I have a lot of this music in 5.1 and know what the surround mix sounds like. This ain't it. I think this ear scan is a placebo device.

Without scanning shoulders, head and ear canal, this isn't an HRTF calibration. It's a gimmick.
Now that you added HRTF. I will share that for over 2 decades, I have enthusiastically searched for refined out of the head headphone experiences. First, a British company came out with the Smyth Research Realiser A8. (There were never any A1 or A7)

It includes some mikes and software for the user to measure and establish personal HRTF figures for the environment they’re in. With their personal gear, room dimensions, and distances from source to each ear.

It was revolutionary for audiophiles in the late 1990s - early 00s when this became available for sale. I was one of the early clients. I went around recording different HRTF at churches. Concert halls, recital rooms, etc.

But there were a lot that was lacking.

Later Smyth remedied a few of the issues with the A16. I bought the 8th unit off the line. It provided adjustments for ear differences and now works with ATMOS and other current systems.

Still, what is lacking is an actual scan of the outer ear. Head and middle ear.

Where this Apple gimmick venture into is a further addition to the quest for the ultimate headphone experience. One that allow for any headphones to provide the sound of music in a room, a concert hall, or any place where music is performed.

Those Smyth gear are north of $5,000 base and add-ons can take it over $8,500. Then, you need to get high end headphones and amplifiers. Easily topping $15 to $20K.

Apple in their efforts is bringing audiophile sound reproduction for the masses at reasonable prices.

I hope they continue improving.
 

BIGSHOTT

macrumors newbie
Apr 7, 2022
23
5
But were you listening to a track with lossless compression? 😆
Nothing played through AirPods are lossless. They don't support lossless, and they are the only things that support spatial audio.

Lossless is as useless as teats on a bull hog. High data rate lossy and 16/44.1 are completely transparent. Any superiority of lossless is due to mastering, not the file format.
 
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Apleeseed84

macrumors 6502a
Oct 22, 2020
902
644
Spatial audio for music sucks but Spatial audio for video and movies is where i hear and see the difference night and day, I’m weird i will use my AirPods Pro for movie content but i will use my shure’s aonic for music, granted some people like the music 360 and all around of them but for me it’s unrealisti, the whole gimmick is pretending that you are in the middle of a live recording of a song with instruments all around you but in reality in a concert the entire band is playing in front of you, hence why i don’t really care about dolby atmos in music but i do care about spatial audio in movies, you can hear the difference night and day for sure!!
 

BIGSHOTT

macrumors newbie
Apr 7, 2022
23
5
Surround music isn't necessarily music all around you. The quality of anything depends on the mix. A really good mono mix can sound better than a multichannel mix. Multichannel, in particular Atmos can add depth to the front soundstage. It isn't just front/back. It can create a sound field that can place a sound object anywhere in the room. That way you can hear that the drums are behind the vocalist, even though they are both coming from the center.

That said, Spatial Audio is NOT the same as multichannel sound with speakers. It is absolutely nothing like the presentation that speakers give. It's just potting right and left as you turn your head with a little delay on the middle. It may work OK for TV, but it's still a gimmick.
 

zmrt69

macrumors newbie
May 11, 2022
2
1
It's the definition of gimmick.

A well recorded and produced stereo recording gives you spatial awareness of the audio. All this function (and functions like this) do is trying to add information that simply isn't there.

It also makes stuff that is a fairly proper stereo recording sound really really really weird since it tries to enhance the spatialness (in lack of better word) to a recording that already is spatial.

Most studio music recordings really don't have that much spatialness to begin with but are mixed with levels moved between right and left channel to have a the sound that the producer wants (and you will never be able to recreate that without having exactly the same speakers and room layout as the producer).
Amen to that! LOL. Gotta have something to sell the new gadget, though. Think of all the people who will get a great pair of Air Pods or Air Pods Pros when the gotta have it gadgeteers get the latest and greatest.
 

zmrt69

macrumors newbie
May 11, 2022
2
1
I wanted to write a short explanation but this quickly became a wall of text... I'm not very knowledgeable about this but I'm going to explain it the way I understood it. I'm sure someone will correct me if I say something wrong on the internet anyway.

Every human has a unique ear shape. Sound waves that reach your ears will bounce on the shape of your external ears before reaching your eardrums. The frequency of a sound wave will change when the wave bounces in your ear. Even the size/shape of your head and other factors play a role here. This means that every person is going to experience music in a different way.

Spatial awareness is also affected by the shape of the ears. The reason we can tell if a sound is coming from above or below is because sound waves bounce in our ears in a particular way depending on the direction. Headphones (especially in-ear) usually ignore the shape of your ears and deliver audio directly to the eardrums. This means that the sound frequency will be slightly off. Usually stereo audio has horisontal spatial awareness by having different sound volume for each ear but that's far from perfect.

It's worth mentioning here that binaural microphones exist. These are basically two microphones placed inside the ears of a doll that has a generic shape of a person. Sounds that are recorded with these will bounce inside the artificial ears which means even if you have normal headphones you'll be able to hear spatial audio. These microphones are used for ASMR stuff you can find online.

Apple introduced Spatial Audio as a way to emulate how sound is received by generic human ears. Sound sources can be placed in a virtual space and a Head-related transfer function (HRTF) is used to compensate for headphones ignoring the shape of our ears. Apple even added head tracking into AirPods so these audio sources stay where they are if you move your head.

The problem with using binaural microphones or spacial audio with a generic HRTF is that your ears are unique. By letting your iPhone's TrueDepth camera scan your head and ears, Apple can create a personalized HRTF just for you. Spacial audio will just be more accurate than before and you will be able hear sound closer to how it would be if you had speakers playing sound all around you.

My favorite way of testing that this works is by enabling head tracked spatialized stereo and turning my head around to see if I can track where the sound is coming from in 3D.
Directionality is not really based on the shape of the exterior ear. The brain determines directionality by detecting the phase shift that occurs in the sound waves between the time the signal arrives at either the right or left ear firstly and the other ear secondly. With low frequencies, there isn't enough of a phase shift for the brain to detect because the wavelengths of low frequency signals are too long. This is why we have difficulty discerning the location of a low frequency sound source (like a subwoofer reproducing sub 100 Hz signals). I have to admit that I can hear a difference after scanning my ear shape. But, I'm still skeptical as to how much this is incorporated in the "magic" of this spatial personalization feature. I think it would be interesting to listen to spatial recordings on another individual's device where they had scanned their own ears in conjunction with their Air Pods Pro. I suspect that as with all things Apple it is a marketing stunt intended to fuel sales of the newer grossly over priced Air Pods Pro.
 
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GubbyMan

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2011
448
2,095
Directionality is not really based on the shape of the exterior ear. The brain determines directionality by detecting the phase shift that occurs in the sound waves between the time the signal arrives at either the right or left ear firstly and the other ear secondly. With low frequencies, there isn't enough of a phase shift for the brain to detect because the wavelengths of low frequency signals are too long. This is why we have difficulty discerning the location of a low frequency sound source (like a subwoofer reproducing sub 100 Hz signals). I have to admit that I can hear a difference after scanning my ear shape. But, I'm still skeptical as to how much this is incorporated in the "magic" of this spatial personalization feature. I think it would be interesting to listen to spatial recordings on another individual's device where they had scanned their own ears in conjunction with their Air Pods Pro. I suspect that as with all things Apple it is a marketing stunt intended to fuel sales of the newer grossly over priced Air Pods Pro.
Yes that is something I didn’t mention in my comment. The brain can tell which ear sound reaches first even if it’s a sub-millisecond difference. However it also uses volume and frequency-change to determine the direction, both of which are affected by the shape of your ears.

Here’s a video by SmarterEveryDay explaining this.
 
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gjamesm48

Suspended
Sep 17, 2022
14
30
It's the definition of gimmick.

A well recorded and produced stereo recording gives you spatial awareness of the audio. All this function (and functions like this) do is trying to add information that simply isn't there.

It also makes stuff that is a fairly proper stereo recording sound really really really weird since it tries to enhance the spatialness (in lack of better word) to a recording that already is spatial.

Most studio music recordings really don't have that much spatialness to begin with but are mixed with levels moved between right and left channel to have a the sound that the producer wants (and you will never be able to recreate that without having exactly the same speakers and room layout as the producer).
And your post is the defection of nonsense.
 
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