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rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,915
13,259
That's not the OS bloating as much as it is the "System Data" bloating. That happens over time. If you had, prior to installing the iPadOS 17 Beta OTA, done a DFU restore to whatever the then-current version of iPadOS 16, you wouldn't have had so much in "System Data" eating up that space. But yes, to your main point, you'll fill that space with "System Data" much faster when you have less storage to play with from the beginning.

It’s both. On the iPad 6th gen running iPadOS 14.8.1 is 6GB while 17.5.1 is 9GB.

On my devices, Other/System Data is often OS size +/- 1-2GB.
 

dfcacc

macrumors newbie
May 16, 2015
17
18
Help me decide, pretty please!

So, my budget is around 8000 SEK ($764). My options are the following:

Air 2022 5G 64gb brand new for 6639 SEK ($633)
Air 2024 wifi 128gb brand new for 7190 SEK ($686)
Pro 2022 wifi 256gb used but very good condition for 8000 SEK ($764)

Since both the Air 2022 and 2024 were short term deals I have already paid for both, to not lose out on the options. Air 2024 normally sells for $800 here in Sweden. The Pro 2022 I can buy next week when the seller is home from his travels.

Even if all 3 fall in my budget, I am undecided on how valuable certain functions/specs are for my needs. I will be using it for browsing the web, streaming video content and the occasional facetime to relatives. I will never write with a pen or doing content creation and/or media editing. So with that in mind, is it really worth paying extra for 120hz and bigger storage? Quad speakers is better of course, but $78 better over the Air 2024?

I think I can justify $53 for a better chip, bigger storage, landscape camera and longer software support (which translates into better resale value a few years down the road). That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
i have all of these. I’d go with MacBook Air for your use case unless you know you prefer an iPad. the m1 and m2 MacBook airs are my favorite casual around the house browsing devices - super light and portable for moving around the house (couch, kitchen, desk, bed) and battery lasts days.

form factor
a lot of people like the iPad for casual browsing but I prefer the computer form factor, I am used to it. Consider for yourself what you would like on this. do you want to touch the screen or not ?

battery life
BL on iPad is half of that on the MacBooks. You will probably get a whole day easily but an MacBook Air lasts me 3-4 days casual use and fast charges most of the way up in 30 minutes which feels magic.

product life
you can hang on to any of these products for a while but I think the expected life of the ipad is a little less than a MacBook.

Screen
they are all great for web browsing

speakers
the speakers and screen are great on the MacBook Air I have never noticed wanting more. The pro speakers are better but I don’t think it makes a meaningful difference. iPad speakers are going to be the weakest.
 

ChiLLon

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 2, 2018
291
193
It depends on how easy it is to deal with the retailer to get a replacement.

Personally, I keep monthly AppleCare+ on my iPad Pro (M1 1TB cellular) for the stress-free express replacement service. I often read on iPads before sleeping and mine have suffered a few drops to the floor so the extra insurance gives me peace of mind.
Very easy, although I suspect we do not mean the same thing when we talk about warranty.

Warranty in Sweden is when something is faulty with the product. Like when I got money back for my old Airpods Pro that were over 2 years old, due to the common crackling sound in one ear. A normal warranty won't replace a broken screen for example.

Home insurance is what people use for that, where you have a $150 ish deductible for accidental damage to your stuff. Then the insurance company pays for repair or replacement depending on damage, up to a valuation that is based on how old the unit is. This is why I never get AppleCare+ because I kinda already have this in my home insurance.
 

ChiLLon

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 2, 2018
291
193
i have all of these. I’d go with MacBook Air for your use case unless you know you prefer an iPad. the m1 and m2 MacBook airs are my favorite casual around the house browsing devices - super light and portable for moving around the house (couch, kitchen, desk, bed) and battery lasts days.

form factor
a lot of people like the iPad for casual browsing but I prefer the computer form factor, I am used to it. Consider for yourself what you would like on this. do you want to touch the screen or not ?

battery life
BL on iPad is half of that on the MacBooks. You will probably get a whole day easily but an MacBook Air lasts me 3-4 days casual use and fast charges most of the way up in 30 minutes which feels magic.

product life
you can hang on to any of these products for a while but I think the expected life of the ipad is a little less than a MacBook.

Screen
they are all great for web browsing

speakers
the speakers and screen are great on the MacBook Air I have never noticed wanting more. The pro speakers are better but I don’t think it makes a meaningful difference. iPad speakers are going to be the weakest.
I own 2 laptops already, one even having a touch screen. The iPad is for the smaller form factor, and mainly for my kids. I use the iPad for stuff like recipes while cooking, youtube while folding laundry, taking with me on travels, stuff like that. Laptop takes to too much space for that kind of use.
 

TechnoMonk

macrumors 68030
Oct 15, 2022
2,603
4,110
What yesterday’s keynote taught us was future-proofing is meaningless. iPhone 15 won’t even get the AI features. There is no point in massively over-buying the hardware specs.

iPad Air 128GB is $599.
iPad Pro 256 GB is $999.
iPad Pro 1TB is $1599.

By the time the current iPad Air misses out on the new AI features, one can simply sell the iPad Air and top up with the $1000 previously saved (+ interest) to buy the latest iPad which supports the new AI features, with huge change to spare.
Actually it taught the other way. What gets you most RAM will be key factor. OP iPad has 5 Gb per app limit, so 8 GB will likely be ok. Compare RAM for different iPad models. 16 GB may be overkill but can help. It’s more about minimum RAM than processor.
 

boak

macrumors 68000
Jun 26, 2021
1,632
2,825
Actually it taught the other way. What gets you most RAM will be key factor. OP iPad has 5 Gb per app limit, so 8 GB will likely be ok. Compare RAM for different iPad models. 16 GB may be overkill but can help. It’s more about minimum RAM than processor.
What are you talking about?
 

TechnoMonk

macrumors 68030
Oct 15, 2022
2,603
4,110
What are you talking about?
Meaning, buy the device with decent enough RAM. iPhone 15 Pro has 8 GB while other models are at 6GB. The Apple ML/AI models when using all adapters can take up to 3-4GB RAM. For iPhone 15 Pro or iPad Models with 8GB RAM it’s no big deal. I have an M1 IPad Pro and should easily handle the memory requirements. As a rule of thumb, you either have enough RAM or Don’t. My M1 Max with 64GB RAM runs any load I throw at it, People who skimped on RAM were forced to upgrade with changes.

My suggestion to OP is compare RAM on iPad Models. Pick one with at least 8 GB RAM.
 

boak

macrumors 68000
Jun 26, 2021
1,632
2,825
Meaning, buy the device with decent enough RAM. iPhone 15 Pro has 8 GB while other models are at 6GB. The Apple ML/AI models when using all adapters can take up to 3-4GB RAM. For iPhone 15 Pro or iPad Models with 8GB RAM it’s no big deal. I have an M1 IPad Pro and should easily handle the memory requirements. As a rule of thumb, you either have enough RAM or Don’t. My M1 Max with 64GB RAM runs any load I throw at it, People who skimped on RAM were forced to upgrade with changes.

My suggestion to OP is compare RAM on iPad Models. Pick one with at least 8 GB RAM.
The advice kind of only works with hindsight though. You didn't know 64GB was sufficient when you bought that device, as you never know what is sufficient for the future.

For example, those who heavily spec-ed out their 2019 MacBook Pros were screwed over big time, if they didn't need an Intel Mac.

Just get what you need for not plus maybe a bit more. Upgrade when your future needs change.
 

TechnoMonk

macrumors 68030
Oct 15, 2022
2,603
4,110
The advice kind of only works with hindsight though. You didn't know 64GB was sufficient when you bought that device, as you never know what is sufficient for the future.

For example, those who heavily spec-ed out their 2019 MacBook Pros were screwed over big time, if they didn't need an Intel Mac.

Just get what you need for not plus maybe a bit more. Upgrade when your future needs change.
It has always worked for me over past two decades. Buy most RAM I can afford, because RAM is binary, you either have memory or run out of memory. Those Intel Macs won’t stop working if you have enough memory. The newer models will have latest processors but doesn’t mean I need to upgrade. I upgrade every 5 years professionally,I would have been forced to upgrade if not for the RAM.If you are serial upgrader who wants to upgrade wvery 2 years, stick to lower end.
 

ChiLLon

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 2, 2018
291
193
Meaning, buy the device with decent enough RAM. iPhone 15 Pro has 8 GB while other models are at 6GB. The Apple ML/AI models when using all adapters can take up to 3-4GB RAM. For iPhone 15 Pro or iPad Models with 8GB RAM it’s no big deal. I have an M1 IPad Pro and should easily handle the memory requirements. As a rule of thumb, you either have enough RAM or Don’t. My M1 Max with 64GB RAM runs any load I throw at it, People who skimped on RAM were forced to upgrade with changes.

My suggestion to OP is compare RAM on iPad Models. Pick one with at least 8 GB RAM.
I will not be using the iPad for anything AI related. None at all.
 

TechnoMonk

macrumors 68030
Oct 15, 2022
2,603
4,110
I will not be using the iPad for anything AI related. None at all.
iPad OS will use it locally, apple is implementing it across the OS, be it text controllers, images and other API. Most of the developers and apps will be using the same API. Sure you may disable ChatGPT, but chatGPT is remote in the cloud anyways. Ofcourse you can buy a lower config device that may not support the New features.
 

ChiLLon

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 2, 2018
291
193
iPad OS will use it locally, apple is implementing it across the OS, be it text controllers, images and other API. Most of the developers and apps will be using the same API. Sure you may disable ChatGPT, but chatGPT is remote in the cloud anyways. Ofcourse you can buy a lower config device that may not support the New features.
I suspect I will be just fine, I am not worried in the slightest. AI is heaviest on the CPU, so even if it uses some RAM I am not worried.

For example, when playing games that support DLSS you basically take load off the GPU and instead put it on the CPU and use AI to render frames. I just tested this in Diablo 4 and I noticed no difference whatsoever in RAM usage. Of course it isn't the same thing, just saying that heavy AI usage does not have to be a RAM gobbling monster.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
How valuable is 5G? If not, you could rule that one out immediately, especially with only 64GB, which is kind of anemic.

How valuable is FaceID to you, vs Touch ID? Again, you could rule one out immediately, based on your answer.

For me, the Pro is tempting, but the Air 2024 is brand new. That's the one I would probably go with. Though personally, I bought the 1TB cellular model. I love lots of storage.
 

TechnoMonk

macrumors 68030
Oct 15, 2022
2,603
4,110
I suspect I will be just fine, I am not worried in the slightest. AI is heaviest on the CPU, so even if it uses some RAM I am not worried.

For example, when playing games that support DLSS you basically take load off the GPU and instead put it on the CPU and use AI to render frames. I just tested this in Diablo 4 and I noticed no difference whatsoever in RAM usage. Of course it isn't the same thing, just saying that heavy AI usage does not have to be a RAM gobbling monster.
Apple models are heavy GPU. They don’t use cpu except for io. MLX uses GPU and Core Ml uses both GPU and neural engine. For Apple silicon it doesn’t really matter as it leverages unified memory. RAM is the single most important factor in running models. Hence iPhone 15 pro and above with 8 GB can support. Anyways it’s moot point if you don’t care about that stuff. It all depends how long you want to keep the iPad.
 

ChiLLon

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 2, 2018
291
193
How valuable is 5G? If not, you could rule that one out immediately, especially with only 64GB, which is kind of anemic.

How valuable is FaceID to you, vs Touch ID? Again, you could rule one out immediately, based on your answer.

For me, the Pro is tempting, but the Air 2024 is brand new. That's the one I would probably go with. Though personally, I bought the 1TB cellular model. I love lots of storage.
Even if I have a cellular model I would still just hotspot my phone. So value is 0 to me. I do agree that the Air 2022 is the least attractive one even if it is the cheapest one. I couldn't care less about FaceID vs TouchID. Truly does not matter to me.

It all boils down to how much I value quad speakers over dual speakers and how much I value brand new vs used.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
Even if I have a cellular model I would still just hotspot my phone. So value is 0 to me. I do agree that the Air 2022 is the least attractive one even if it is the cheapest one. I couldn't care less about FaceID vs TouchID. Truly does not matter to me.

It all boils down to how much I value quad speakers over dual speakers and how much I value brand new vs used.

"used" depends on quality. To me, if it looks new, then it's good to go. Being a 2022, it may have some we are on it. But it depends pn the owner. I have stuff ten years old that looks like mint condition, I take care of my gadgets.
 
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