iPad Pro

[macduke]

how old are you? you are dreaming...

“Society often forgives the criminal; it never forgives the dreamer.”

- Oscar Wilde

"Here's to the crazy ones..."

- Apple

"I'm 25."

- A.C. Duke

That will never happen. Even Apple have realized that a tablet cannot be used as a main computing device and that's why they came up with all that 3rd category thing.

I'm really surprised at the lack of imagination in here from a lot of people. At least 90% of computers will be touch screen "tablets" in some form by the end of the decade. Be it multitouch iMacs that tilt down, or replacements for Macbooks in future, more powerful iPad variants that run a more full-featured OS, it's going to happen, so lets move beyond that point. I'll repost this thread in 2020. I'll put the alert in iCal. It will be funny to look back on how close-minded people are, just like the iPod, just like the first iPhone. Two words: runaway success, but people doubted and figured Apple would never make them better or improve them in any way to conform to the demands of the market. Ridiculous.

The iPhone would have blown the hell out of our minds in 1997. Let me set the stage: You're sitting at your 75mhz Pentium MMX Packard-Bell on Windows 95 running VB, Photoshop 5, and AOL on a 14.4kbps modem, 3EB's "Semi-Charmed Life" playing in the background over an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Suddenly some emo kid from the future appears and gives you an iPhone. After you beat him up you immediately start bleeding out of your eyes at the wonder of the iPhone. After a doctor's visit, you recover, and instantly become the most famous person in the world. Steve Jobs comes back to Apple, hires you, and then we get iPhone in the year 2000 instead.

Of course, your individual results may vary...haha. This hell week getting no sleep is making me loopy.

I like cheese. I like gum.

Therefore, cheese gum must be even better.

Don't be so dense. First of all, everyone needs to understand that this is my long term vision of what might happen. This is more of a pro option for those who need it all, not mainstream. Just like not everyone buys a Mac Pro. Second of all, take this design, give it 5-10 years of Apple engineering, and it will be unimaginably tasty and delicious. Third of all, I primarily made this thread to get some reactions and provoke dialogue about how this would work and to gauge the feeling of the community, which seems to be fairly mixed. That was a horrible run-on sentence. Time for bed!

 

[guycross]

iPhone OS + OSX = ?

deleted because I am so dumb i should be allowed online

 

[SteveSparks]

The best understanding I have with the Lenovo device is that the resources between Tablet and PC mode are not shared.

This means that the content you have on the tablet is not the same as that on the PC. The tablet it really just the monitor, that can be removed and used as a seperate device. When you have problem with the tablet, what happends to all your data on the 1/2 of a system?

 

[anthonymoody]

That will never happen. Even Apple have realized that a tablet cannot be used as a main computing device and that's why they came up with all that 3rd category thing. People want to watch videos, video-chat and generally interact with their computers while keeping both of their hands free for the important work - it's almost impossible to do that with tablets, not to mention the screen space that gets lost when there's a need to type something with the virtual keyboard.

See below.

I'm really surprised at the lack of imagination in here from a lot of people. At least 90% of computers will be touch screen "tablets" in some form by the end of the decade. Be it multitouch iMacs that tilt down, or replacements for Macbooks in future, more powerful iPad variants that run a more full-featured OS, it's going to happen, so lets move beyond that point. I'll repost this thread in 2020. I'll put the alert in iCal. It will be funny to look back on how close-minded people are, just like the iPod, just like the first iPhone. Two words: runaway success, but people doubted and figured Apple would never make them better or improve them in any way to conform to the demands of the market. Ridiculous.

This.

Apple knows precisely what they're doing. If they'd simply stopped selling 'laptops' as we think of them and replaced them with the iPad, the universe would have imploded. So instead they plant the seed in a smart way.

I for one will not be remotely surprised when that seed grows extremely rapidly into a giant forest that eats the laptop market alive within 5 years. Think how far the iPhone has come in only 3 years. 5 years from now the iPad and its ilk will dominate.

 

[wiliamjoan]

I like a case that hides the name of the device I’m using. I’m not paid to endorse any product, and I’m not going to give it away. I always remove all tags and labeling from my clothing.I hate that most iPhone cases cover the Apple logo but put their logo in its place.

 

[AJsAWiz]

Lenovo already has one:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/lenovo-ideapad-u1-hybrid-hands-on-and-impressions/

Saw the video . . . thanks for posting the link.
Nice effort on Lenovo's part (A+ for innovation) however the stand alone tablet doesn't come close, in comparison, to the iPad

 

[darngooddesign]

Except for windows 7 it does look pretty neat, good job lenovo!

I agree that the Lenovo is really neat.

To the rest:
Dual screen laptops or a la courrier devices are bigtime failures for a lot of reasons I don't have the time to elaborate.

How successful were eBook readers before the Kindle? How successful have iPad-type devices been before the iPad? I think its short-sighted to rule out the Courier until its out and we can see how useful the device and OS is.

 

[zipa]

When you have problem with the tablet, what happends to all your data on the 1/2 of a system?

Nothing. You wait for the onsite service to pick up the tablet and either bring a replacement with them, or hook up the laptop side of it to an external monitor and keep working.

 

[oneeach]

While the Lenovo IdeaPad U1 is a nice idea, it is more gimmicky then usable. Specifically, the keyboard/win 7 portion is useless unless the tablet screen is attached. That seems like a complete waste. This is not the direction Apple is headed.

I expect that that iOS and OS X will merge and allow universal applications that are designed to be split along the View and Controller lines. It will be very similar to how a web application works except it will have the native look and feel of whatever device is used to access the application. A desktop will use a keyboard and mouse, an iPad will have a touch based interface and an iPhone will provide a different UI due to the smaller screen size.

 

[ViViDboarder]

The best understanding I have with the Lenovo device is that the resources between Tablet and PC mode are not shared.

This means that the content you have on the tablet is not the same as that on the PC. The tablet it really just the monitor, that can be removed and used as a seperate device. When you have problem with the tablet, what happends to all your data on the 1/2 of a system?

I'm not positive, but my guess is HDD storage from the tablet portion is shared. Probably a secondary storage device in the keyboard though too.

Saw the video . . . thanks for posting the link.
Nice effort on Lenovo's part (A+ for innovation) however the stand alone tablet doesn't come close, in comparison, to the iPad

I don't see why not really... I want that way more than I want the iPad.

While the Lenovo IdeaPad U1 is a nice idea, it is more gimmicky then usable. Specifically, the keyboard/win 7 portion is useless unless the tablet screen is attached. That seems like a complete waste. This is not the direction Apple is headed.

You used the U1? It seems immensely useful to me. What can you use the iPad keyboard attachment for without the iPad? Seems like it's exactly the direction Apple was going except Lenovo went there AND made the keyboard part portable AND gave it a spec boost.

The keyboard portion houses a separate CPU than the tablet so it can run more powerful applications and function as a netbook and not a tablet when you are seated. If you're doing anything other than walking around with it you can set up the keyboard and be using a much more capable device than either the iPad or the screen portion.

 

[Mactagonist]

“Society often forgives the criminal; it never forgives the dreamer.”

- Oscar Wilde

"Here's to the crazy ones..."

- Apple

"I'm 25."

- A.C. Duke



I'm really surprised at the lack of imagination in here from a lot of people

...

Don't be so dense. First of all, everyone needs to understand that this is my long term vision of what might happen. This is more of a pro option for those who need it all, not mainstream. Just like not everyone buys a Mac Pro. Second of all, take this design, give it 5-10 years of Apple engineering, and it will be unimaginably tasty and delicious. Third of all, I primarily made this thread to get some reactions and provoke dialogue about how this would work and to gauge the feeling of the community, which seems to be fairly mixed. That was a horrible run-on sentence. Time for bed!

I think the reason you are getting a mixed reaction is that you are taking a backwards looking approach to technology.

Why should a new development (minimal, simple tablet computer for media consumptions and apps) 'develop' into a worse version of the last generation (notebooks)?

Clamshell notebooks have advantages right now for text input and durability (screen is protected when closed). Once these issues are solved in tablet style devices why go back?

 

[ViViDboarder]

I think the reason you are getting a mixed reaction is that you are taking a backwards looking approach to technology.

Why should a new development (minimal, simple tablet computer for media consumptions and apps) 'develop' into a worse version of the last generation (notebooks)?

Clamshell notebooks have advantages right now for text input and durability (screen is protected when closed). Once these issues are solved in tablet style devices why go back?

These issues can't be "resolved" because of the nature of a tablet style device... It's ergonomically ill designed. It's fine for casual use like reading and media consumption, as you said, but for any kind of extended use or typing a clam-shell design is optimal. You can manipulate HID without having to cover any of the screen or stare straight down. Your arms can lie even keeping your wrists at a proper angle while requiring minimal head movement.

Basically what I'm saying is... Tablets/Slates are not a Step Forward, but more of a Step Sideways. A tablet can't replace a notebook and a notebook can't replace a tablet (for all tasks).

The U1 has an innovative design that does try to combine the best of both worlds but I doubt it will be well received. Especially on MacRumors.

 

[Mactagonist]

These issues can't be "resolved" because of the nature of a tablet style device... It's ergonomically ill designed. It's fine for casual use like reading and media consumption, as you said, but for any kind of extended use or typing a clam-shell design is optimal. You can manipulate HID without having to cover any of the screen or stare straight down. Your arms can lie even keeping your wrists at a proper angle while requiring minimal head movement.

Basically what I'm saying is... Tablets/Slates are not a Step Forward, but more of a Step Sideways. A tablet can't replace a notebook and a notebook can't replace a tablet (for all tasks).

The U1 has an innovative design that does try to combine the best of both worlds but I doubt it will be well received. Especially on MacRumors.

Do you think the clamshell notebook form factor can ever be replaced for extended use and data entry? If so, how?

 

[ViViDboarder]

Do you think the clamshell notebook form factor can ever be replaced for extended use and data entry? If so, how?

I don't. Read a little closer.

These issues can't be "resolved" because of the nature of a tablet style device... It's ergonomically ill designed. It's fine for casual use like reading and media consumption, as you said, but for any kind of extended use or typing a clam-shell design is optimal. You can manipulate HID without having to cover any of the screen or stare straight down. Your arms can lie even keeping your wrists at a proper angle while requiring minimal head movement.

Basically what I'm saying is... Tablets/Slates are not a Step Forward, but more of a Step Sideways. A tablet can't replace a notebook and a notebook can't replace a tablet (for all tasks).

The U1 has an innovative design that does try to combine the best of both worlds but I doubt it will be well received. Especially on MacRumors.

See

But just because you asked...

The only possible way would be to have a really good (and I mean REALLY GOOD) voice recognition and dictation system. We're a long ways away from dictation software replacing keyboards though.

 

[Mactagonist]

I don't. Read a little closer.



See

But just because you asked...

The only possible way would be to have a really good (and I mean REALLY GOOD) voice recognition and dictation system. We're a long ways away from dictation software replacing keyboards though.

If I asked you to repeat yourself it was because I wanted to be sure you really though that the clamshell laptop design was the pinnacle of design and would never be surpassed except in some nebulous future. I now understand that you do indeed believe that.

I dont think the mechanical keyboard will hold out that long personally. There are so many other ways to enter text from Swype like touch keyboard improvements to typing on the back of the tablet as you hold it to voice control ranging even to direct thought control. A clamshell laptop design is inherently inflexible. No matter what you cant do anything with half of its user facing real estate but enter text. That is a significant compromise.

The number of people who really 'need' to bang out reams of text at 70+wpm is much smaller then the overall market. I think mechanical keyboards will persist in those positions for much longer then they do in the general market. But they are all on the way out in the coming decade.

 

[zipa]

I dont think the mechanical keyboard will hold out that long personally.

It has held out for some 150 years, and there's nothing on the horizon to replace it, so I'd say that's a pretty bold statement.

There are so many other ways to enter text from Swype like touch keyboard improvements to typing on the back of the tablet as you hold it to voice control ranging even to direct thought control.

None of which come even anywhere close to the speed, accuracy, and most importantly, the ergonomics of a physical keyboard. Unless human evolution radically changes our physiology, you cannot overcome the fact that the clamshell is pretty much an optimal design. Sure, it doesn't need to be a clamshell, but the angle between the keyboard and the screen needs to be pretty much as it is now. Having a keyboard on the back does make sense from an ergonomic standpoint, but I'm afraid that it'll be way to hard for "normal" people to use. Most people can't even type on a regular keyboard without looking at their fingers.

Virtual keyboards are just a joke, they are horrible to use and the lack of physical feedback makes them a non-option for anything resembling productive use. Now, there are some technologies that would allow for this, but those are not expected in the near future.

Voice recognition might become and option for strictly typing human readable text, but trying to use it for programming or a command line interface is simply painful and slow. Also the voice recognition needs a foolproof way of determining whether or not you want to input texts or issue commands, such as changing fonts, underlining etc.

Thought control is interesting, but according to what I've read, accurate and more specifically affordable technologies aren't expected before 2050 or so.

 

[diabolic]

Voice recognition might become and option for strictly typing human readable text, but trying to use it for programming or a command line interface is simply painful and slow.

It won't be long before programming and command line interfaces will become specialized uses for specific computers rather than something that needs to be accessible on every system for everyone.

 

[zipa]

It won't be long before programming and command line interfaces will become specialized uses for specific computers rather than something that needs to be accessible on every system for everyone.

Oh, they are that already. It doesn't change the fact that doing it via voice control would be as well received as going back to punch cards.

 

[applesupergeek]

I agree that the Lenovo is really neat.



How successful were eBook readers before the Kindle? How successful have iPad-type devices been before the iPad? I think its short-sighted to rule out the Courier until its out and we can see how useful the device and OS is.

Well I am not ruling out the courier, which I think is typical MS vapourware , but I am expressing an informed (least that's what I think) opinion on the user interface of such devices in general.

There were quite a few succesfull readers before the kindle btw, not for the masses, but for the informed few, I had an eink device a good two years before the kindle. This is a really good site for all ebook reader stuff www.mobileread.com

 

[Mactagonist]

It has held out for some 150 years, and there's nothing on the horizon to replace it, so I'd say that's a pretty bold statement.


...

You do realize that the mechanical keyboard is tiny blip in the history of human writing right?

Think about how people have written for thousands of years, on a wax tablet, a scroll, paper etc. Just because the iPad of today cant interpret written input doesnt mean they never will.

 

[ViViDboarder]

You do realize that the mechanical keyboard is tiny blip in the history of human writing right?

Think about how people have written for thousands of years, on a wax tablet, a scroll, paper etc. Just because the iPad of today cant interpret written input doesnt mean they never will.

Yea, but there's nothing on the horizon really that's set to replace it... So it's safe to say that it's not going to show up one day and everyone is going to pack up their keyboards and be done with it. It will take a very long time for a new technology to transition in.

Think about it, even with touch screen devices now they vibrate to simulate being a physical button... The cheaper and more accurate solution is to actually use physical buttons. The other benefit of what the physical keyboard has to offer is that you can feel where your fingers are BEFORE pressing the buttons down. This allows one to "touch type" and reach very high word/minute ratios. Each finger knows where it is by feel of the keyboard and not by hoping your hand is still on the home row.

I'm not saying this is why physical keyboards will be there forever, but it's why they'll be hard to replace.

 

[anthonymoody]

Yea, but there's nothing on the horizon really that's set to replace it... So it's safe to say that it's not going to show up one day and everyone is going to pack up their keyboards and be done with it. It will take a very long time for a new technology to transition in.

Think about it, even with touch screen devices now they vibrate to simulate being a physical button... The cheaper and more accurate solution is to actually use physical buttons. The other benefit of what the physical keyboard has to offer is that you can feel where your fingers are BEFORE pressing the buttons down. This allows one to "touch type" and reach very high word/minute ratios. Each finger knows where it is by feel of the keyboard and not by hoping your hand is still on the home row.

I'm not saying this is why physical keyboards will be there forever, but it's why they'll be hard to replace.

I think voice recognition is closer than we generally think. It's getting better at an exponential rate. Play around with the latest Google stuff if you haven't...

 

[ViViDboarder]

I think voice recognition is closer than we generally think. It's getting better at an exponential rate. Play around with the latest Google stuff if you haven't...

I have. I used Goog411 and I have Google Voice. It's nice and it's getting pretty good.

I'm also a software developer... There is just no good way to do that with dictation.

Also, another MAJOR issue...

People like to work with laptops and tablets on the go. That's why they are portable. You can't really dictate while in an office surrounded by other people using microphones all talking at once. Or on the train, or a bus, or an airplane or in any room with more than just you.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I think voice recognition is closer than we generally think. It's getting better at an exponential rate. Play around with the latest Google stuff if you haven't...

Voice recognition as a supplementary way to control a machine in a private setting I think would be cool. Telling your computer what to play in iTunes, for example. As a primary way of interacting w/a computer it would suck balls. Can you imagine an office, or coffee shop, full of people all dictating to their computers endlessly? People always cite Star Trek as to how cool this would be but if you pay attention the voice interaction w/the computer is minimal. The crew primarily inputs data on pads or at workstations.

Another HID that people like to go ga-ga for is the video editing machine that Tom Cruise's character has in Minority Report. It looks cool, but if you've actually spent any serious amount of time editing you know that that kind of human interface is slow, limited, and an ergonomic nightmare for the task he is doing.


Lethal

 

[anthonymoody]

Yup for sure private settings are part of the key. So too though are point-directional mics, background filtering, etc. etc. etc. So I don't office/public use cases are impossible. More difficult for sure

Re: coding...yeah anything with crazy syntax that can't be 'read' other than character by character is a non-starter.

However, here's food for thought. Imagine an SDK environment wherein you don't need to learn that kind of syntax at all (let alone have to type it in). Maybe instead call up APIs and modules by name, and manipulate them. In other words, "real" object oriented programming wherein the objects are so high level that they can be referred to and manipulate using plain English

I'm not a coder though, so what do I know? Last language I learned was Pascal!