iPad Pro iPad will never run macOS (and it shouldn’t)

[Digitalguy]

The more I think about it, the more I think full MacOS will never come to iPad, not even on an external monitor (which would be the easiest solution and solve all the issues mentioned in this thread).
FCP and Logic are coming to iPad pro 100%, and soon, that's more money for Apple and could push more developers to port to iPad. Apple considers the App Store revenues as very important (see the Epic saga), so they are not giving the ability to any app to run on iPad without getting a cent on it. Some may say you can already run many things via the browser without the store. True, but you can do that on a Surface too (which very few consider a good alternative), which has an even better browser. Apple would love for more Mac developers to port to iPad to get 30% there, and they will push iPadOS further to be more and more similar to MacOS where it makes sense and start putting all their full desktop apps on the iPad, but MacOS itself is not the most profitable way for them to do it...(whether it's in bootcamp mode or in external monitor only).

 

[one more]

I think using that with fingers would be terrible (in fact, in my opinion is already terrible in tablets that have it). You would need a small bar at the top, because you don’t want to take too much space, with a small close button. Then you need a way to resize it. That’s easy with a video, not with an app.

On top of that, iPadOS has different defined viewports, if you resize an app in the way you want, everything can happen (remember, we have the precision of a finger, not a mouse).

And size matters. I have a MBP 13 and MBP 16. On the 13 inch, even with an OS designed for windows and mouse, windows in my case are only used to change files and quick checks. Since Apple introduced full screen mode, I usually have Photoshop, FCP and Finder fullscreen and drag and swipe between them.

I do not see a problem there, since we can already run two apps side by side with a vertical divide in between.

Imagine a horizontal divide or a T-shaped one, for example. They will still be rectangular, just could be arranged in a more useful way, depending on a task at hand.

 

[one more]

1. iPad will never run macOS nor should it - The iPad Pro is not the iPad. It looks like the iPad Pro is being differentiated from the regular iPad line.

We are yet to see any real outcomes of this supposed differentiation. Remember, right now anything running on iPad Pro should also run reasonably well on iPad 8 and Air 4 (Apple’s current range). If this is not the case, it might just confuse/alienate customers. For example, I can understand and accept if Pixelmator runs slower on iPad Air 4 vs iPad Pro, yet it would be weird if the devs made it exclusive to iPad Pro only. After all, wider device support = bigger revenue for the developers and Apple.

 

[secretk]

We are yet to see any real outcomes of this supposed differentiation. Remember, right now anything running on iPad Pro should also run reasonably well on iPad 8 and Air 4 (Apple’s current range). If this is not the case, it might just confuse/alienate customers. For example, I can understand and accept if Pixelmator runs slower on iPad Air 4 vs iPad Pro, yet it would be weird if the devs made it exclusive to iPad Pro only. After all, wider device support = bigger revenue for the developers and Apple.

Indeed. This is why I do not expect anything revolutionary software wise in the next 2-3 years. Still to this day most iPad users use a device with no more than 4GB RAM. Apple and other companies would make apps that can work with 4GB RAM. Otherwise they use users base and money.

In a nutshell I do not think that we will see apps or workflow or iPadOS changes that take fully advantage of the power of the new iPPs. If they go in this direction, they would alienate 95 % of their user base (maybe even more).

 

[Digitalguy]

Indeed. This is why I do not expect anything revolutionary software wise in the next 2-3 years. Still to this day most iPad users use a device with no more than 4GB RAM. Apple and other companies would make apps that can work with 4GB RAM. Otherwise they use users base and money.

In a nutshell I do not think that we will see apps or workflow or iPadOS changes that take fully advantage of the power of the new iPPs. If they go in this direction, they would alienate 95 % of their user base (maybe even more).

I think they'll let pro apps run on all current line and 4GB devices, just with less features that require RAM (like less plugins for Logic etc). However some OS features, like a desktop mode with external monitor may be exclusive to M1 (it doesn't mean other iPads won't get monitor support but it may monitor only, not monitor and iPad at the same time for instance). Also M1 may support higher resolutions and framerates.

 

[secretk]

I think they'll let pro apps run on all current line and 4GB devices, just with less features that require RAM (like less plugins for Logic etc). However some OS features, like a desktop mode with external monitor may be exclusive to M1 (it doesn't mean other iPads won't get monitor support but it may monitor only, not monitor and iPad at the same time for instance). Also M1 may support higher resolutions and framerates.

It is a way to go, but it is a fine balance that they would have to be careful to not deviate from. Otherwise they might alienate users . That being said indeed this is why I want to see WWDC because I do not use Logic Pro or Final Cut Pro. I am not saying support for those apps would not be cool for people, but it means nothing to me as I would not use them anyway. So I would not be surprised if what you suggest is true and still for me to be no impact (positive or negative) because it might be about apps that I have never planned to use .

I would not reject the idea of Xcode though. I am former Developer, I like to play with stuff - Swift including but I do not want to buy Mac to play with it. It is way too expensive for exploration needs only.

 

[Digitalguy]

It is a way to go, but it is a fine balance that they would have to be careful to not deviate from. Otherwise they might alienate users . That being said indeed this is why I want to see WWDC because I do not use Logic Pro or Final Cut Pro. I am not saying support for those apps would not be cool for people, but it means nothing to me as I would not use them anyway. So I would not be surprised if what you suggest is true and still for me to be no impact (positive or negative) because it might be about apps that I have never planned to use .

I would not reject the idea of Xcode though. I am former Developer, I like to play with stuff - Swift including but I do not want to buy Mac to play with it. It is way too expensive for exploration needs only.

it's the same for me, I use lumafusion and Korg Gadget, I am not switching to Apple software because I don't need that kind of power nor I want to pay subscriptions. So no impact for me either.
Personally I am looking forward to monitor support, as I have quite a few monitors, including several portable USB C monitors. And to improvements in the UI (especially the taskbar) and the file app, that's what would impact me most

 

[jeremiah256]

We are yet to see any real outcomes of this supposed differentiation. Remember, right now anything running on iPad Pro should also run reasonably well on iPad 8 and Air 4 (Apple’s current range). If this is not the case, it might just confuse/alienate customers. For example, I can understand and accept if Pixelmator runs slower on iPad Air 4 vs iPad Pro, yet it would be weird if the devs made it exclusive to iPad Pro only. After all, wider device support = bigger revenue for the developers and Apple.

There is already a compatibility section in the Apps Store. This will be no different. Because having the latest iOS version doesn’t mean you have the cameras, or lidar, or the U-chip, NFC, etc., to run all the apps on the store.

 

[ericwn]

Yes, like Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro.

These are not advantages if the iPadOS version though.

 

[secretk]

it's the same for me, I use lumafusion and Korg Gadget, I am not switching to Apple software because I don't need that kind of power nor I want to pay subscriptions. So no impact for me either.

Yep, not a fan of the subscriptions model either.

Personally I am looking forward to monitor support, as I have quite a few monitors, including several portable USB C monitors. And to improvements in the UI (especially the taskbar) and the file app, that's what would impact me most

Yes, on this regard I do hope for improvements. I would not mind more efficient RAM management - not a fan of how iOS/iPadOS deals with this.

 

[ericwn]

Any of those would worsen my iPad experience. I may work on a laptop, but my personal computer usage is 100% iPad and has been for many years. And a big part of that is that I specifically don't have to contend with the extra hassle and tediousness of...

multi-user: This is solved. Everyone gets their own iPad. This isn't a family desktop you leave sitting on the community table. It is a high usage, personal computing device. Kids get last year's budget model cause I'm not letting them touch my expensive pro. Wife has her own cause chances are we'd otherwise be in contention over whose turn it is anyway. And I don't need the space wasted for profiles or confusion of logging in. You pick it up. It is tailored to you. It shows you your things.

file-system: Ug please no. Never. There is absolutely no reason I should ever have to look at or even know about any files whatsoever except for the content I created/downloaded. Yeah the Files app needs some tweaking, but its one job is and should only ever be the sharing of said content between the different apps that create/download/edit it. The sole thing related to files that would be a valid ask is accessing external drives. And those should be 100% viewed through the lense of the Files app interface. Not for offloading apps or anything like that. Just yet another directory in the Files app.

proper multitasking: Maybe the giant iPad Pro should enable 4x apps on screen at once, but otherwise, 2x apps is fine. And with how fast the iPad lets you switch back and forth between apps, I fail to see what it's even lacking here. I love the app centric interface of iOS. It is the top reason, alongside portability, that iOS is my 100% home operating system. Lots of open windows to manage would absolutely ruin the experience. Using an iPad would be a chore. Honestly my single beef with multitasking is just that it's inconsistent. The approach is great, but I don't get why literally every app doesn't work in every mode (full screen, side by side, floating overlay); that should be a requirement to be on the app store.

background services: No! I don't want to have to manage closing apps or worry about battery life, memory, or processor power being sucked up by rogue background apps. That ruins the way I interact with a tablet. I expect it to only be running what I'm actively using and giving that experience full power. That is its job. Videos in a pip or background music make sense only because I'm still in effect actively using those even if they aren't full screen. Seriously, what kind of background crunching do I need my tablet doing? That is literally the kind of thing you should instead connect to a server for or just be using a laptop for. And the real issue with making this available to those who want it is that then rogue apps will abuse it, and I will have to manually kill everything all the time to protect myself from it. I don't want to have to analyze Activity Monitor on my tablet every time it seems slow.

Front to back a great post from the tablet first user perspective, thanks much for sharing.

 

[ericwn]

Apple acknowledged and admitted that Microsoft was right about tablets with the Surface, they certainly were! This should be a learning experience for Apple to compete on that front against the Surface with a proper full OS/tablet, not the half baked iPad in it's current form.

Can you please link to Apple’s admission of defeat towards the design of the Surface?

 

[secretk]

Interesting perspective. I do have different point of view than yours on some of those aspects though.

Any of those would worsen my iPad experience. I may work on a laptop, but my personal computer usage is 100% iPad and has been for many years. And a big part of that is that I specifically don't have to contend with the extra hassle and tediousness of...

multi-user: This is solved. Everyone gets their own iPad. This isn't a family desktop you leave sitting on the community table. It is a high usage, personal computing device. Kids get last year's budget model cause I'm not letting them touch my expensive pro. Wife has her own cause chances are we'd otherwise be in contention over whose turn it is anyway. And I don't need the space wasted for profiles or confusion of logging in. You pick it up. It is tailored to you. It shows you your things.

Yeah, I don't need multi user support that much as to be honest I treat iPad as a phone. Meaning it is personal device and I do not want to expose it to other people. That being said I also do not have kids.

file-system: Ug please no. Never. There is absolutely no reason I should ever have to look at or even know about any files whatsoever except for the content I created/downloaded. Yeah the Files app needs some tweaking, but its one job is and should only ever be the sharing of said content between the different apps that create/download/edit it. The sole thing related to files that would be a valid ask is accessing external drives. And those should be 100% viewed through the lense of the Files app interface. Not for offloading apps or anything like that. Just yet another directory in the Files app.

I have few issues with Files app:

1. Sharing files between apps means multiplication of said file for every app. Why should I pay for iPad storage to store multiple copies of the same file? That for me is nonsense. I expect to be exactly one file that I can open in many apps as I want and would not lead to multiplication.
2. No progress bar when working with bigger files. As it is I need to wait doing nothing and just rely on my Intuition to know if something has been transferred completely or not. I find this rather bad User experience.

proper multitasking: Maybe the giant iPad Pro should enable 4x apps on screen at once, but otherwise, 2x apps is fine. And with how fast the iPad lets you switch back and forth between apps, I fail to see what it's even lacking here. I love the app centric interface of iOS. It is the top reason, alongside portability, that iOS is my 100% home operating system. Lots of open windows to manage would absolutely ruin the experience. Using an iPad would be a chore. Honestly my single beef with multitasking is just that it's inconsistent. The approach is great, but I don't get why literally every app doesn't work in every mode (full screen, side by side, floating overlay); that should be a requirement to be on the app store.

I cannot take seriously iPad multitasking to be honest. Switching between apps might be fast but at certain point of time you pay for transactional cost to switch between them. Also RAM has its limits and quite often it leads to reloading apps when I use apps in split screen. So they do need to improve the RAM management IMO. Otherwise multitasking is not really enjoyable experience.

background services: No! I don't want to have to manage closing apps or worry about battery life, memory, or processor power being sucked up by rogue background apps. That ruins the way I interact with a tablet. I expect it to only be running what I'm actively using and giving that experience full power. That is its job. Videos in a pip or background music make sense only because I'm still in effect actively using those even if they aren't full screen. Seriously, what kind of background crunching do I need my tablet doing? That is literally the kind of thing you should instead connect to a server for or just be using a laptop for. And the real issue with making this available to those who want it is that then rogue apps will abuse it, and I will have to manually kill everything all the time to protect myself from it. I don't want to have to analyze Activity Monitor on my tablet every time it seems slow.

Problem with this is that iPad feels like an ancient device. It is like 1990 era (maybe even worse). I work on Lumafusion video and I have to export it. As it is I need to wait for it, watch the ceiling and babysit the device. This is a waste of time. I cannot take seriously a machine that would require me to waste time and wait doing nothing until a task is finished.

 

[ericwn]

I prefer iOS to macOS tbh , much more stable , no bizarre unix commands when it all goes awry etc , just a hard restart , sorted .

Bizarre unix commands are uncommon on the Mac in the same fashion as forced restarts are not properly handling an iOS device.

 

[Falhófnir]

No it won't; the question is how much more like MacOS iPadOS will become. There was a point I didn't think a cursor was likely, yet here we are. In the future, floating window support? Finder? The full desktop version of Safari? Mac App support? It now seems clear Apple is repositioning the iPad Pros as a laptop alternative, but there's still a large functionality gap to plug so that they can be more than 'an iPad' to most people (and justify the price tags they now carry, particularly when looking at the higher configurations and fully kitted out with accessories).

 

[oldmacs]

Would be fantastic if the iPad was capable at managing files. the fact I still can't download an entire folder from iCloud Drive at once is just pathetic. So is the inability to do simple things the finder can do like rotate images.

 

[Rogifan]

The people who say they need macOS on an iPad…why do you need/want an iPad over a Mac laptop? I have an iPad Pro with MK as my personal computer. I type with the keyboard all the time. I sometimes use the trackpad but more often than not I touch the screen. It’s totally natural to me My work laptop is a Windows machine. I am never temped to touch the screen. To me they’re different tools for different purposes and they don’t need to be the same. I’m not saying Apple can’t improve the iPadOS experience but if I needed everything macOS had to offer I’d just buy a Mac.

 

[AutomaticApple]

These are not advantages if the iPadOS version though.

What do you mean? It would certainly make iPadOS more appealing to professionals.

 

[ericwn]

You literally have no clue what you're talking about. After this nonsense, I can no longer take anything you post seriously, ever again.

Oh the drama.

 

[ericwn]

We are yet to see any real outcomes of this supposed differentiation. Remember, right now anything running on iPad Pro should also run reasonably well on iPad 8 and Air 4 (Apple’s current range). If this is not the case, it might just confuse/alienate customers. For example, I can understand and accept if Pixelmator runs slower on iPad Air 4 vs iPad Pro, yet it would be weird if the devs made it exclusive to iPad Pro only. After all, wider device support = bigger revenue for the developers and Apple.

Good point I think. If a software doesn’t run on the mainstream iPads it’s probably it often worth porting if in the first place from a developer perspective.

 

[ericwn]

What do you mean? It would certainly make iPadOS more appealing to professionals.

They are apps. The post you quoted mentioned that iPadOS will be overhauled. Getting more apps might be a result of it but neither app is part of the OS - that’s how the post I quoted came across.

These apps will surely make iPad more attractive to a certain niche hence great for marketing and it’ll drag a few more users into the platform, always good to have.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

How is this even supposed to work, software-wise? Is Apple supposed to release some sort of pro-ipadOS just for M1 iPads, while the normal iPads receive standard iPadOS updates?

Honestly any iPad released in the past couple years has the power to support a full iPadOS rewrite IMO. Like Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X level change. Any iPad with USB-C would be ideal, but a lightning to USB dongle for external peripherals is fine for other iPads.

It doesn't need to be MacOS, but it should be capable of performing the functions that MacOS provides. We've seen a couple iterations of iPadOS since it got separated off from iOS. It's still pretty much the same thing as iOS. It needs a refresh from the ground up.

 

[Crow_Servo]

Honestly any iPad released in the past couple years has the power to support a full iPadOS rewrite IMO. Like Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X level change. Any iPad with USB-C would be ideal, but a lightning to USB dongle for external peripherals is fine for other iPads.

It doesn't need to be MacOS, but it should be capable of performing the functions that MacOS provides. We've seen a couple iterations of iPadOS since it got separated off from iOS. It's still pretty much the same thing as iOS. It needs a refresh from the ground up.

Agreed. iPadOS should utilize the power of today’s iPad more. If Apple doesn’t want MacOS on the iPad, at least make iPadOS a little closer to MacOS (more robust) than iOS. They’ve taken baby steps. We need to see a big step now that the specs of the new iPad Pro basically matches their latest Macbooks and iMac.

 

[007p]

The people who say they need macOS on an iPad…why do you need/want an iPad over a Mac laptop?

The iPad in tablet form is the best media consumption device. If I travel anywhere, I always have an iPad with me. End of story.

Nowadays, it’s not uncommon for me to need to do some work. No where near an amount where I could justify a laptop, but still a chance. It’s not about money though, I simply do not want to carry a whole other device, one now running identical hardware, just on the off chance I want to do something productive. Carrying a small mouse and keyboard for the iPad is so much more convenient.

Currently I just use a Remote Desktop app, but it still has limitations like external monitor support, lack of actually having local files, lack of external accessory support. I’d love to be able to plug my phone into my iPad Pro and compile an app onto it for example. I’d love iPad pro to be able to manage other iOS devices like the Mac can now. Xcode, Apple Configurator 2, backups etc.

This is obviously something you just can’t do over Remote Desktop. Again, not enough that I’d actually carry a laptop with me, that’s ridiculous. We are already in the situation where a lot can be done on phones, it seems crazy to me to carry around 3 devices that are theoretically all capable of doing the same thing. A phone and something else for now is fine, for me it’s a phone and iPad, I’m not adding a third in there with a laptop. Maybe if I can stand large phones, I could get away with a max and laptop, but I can’t ?

As primarily a desktop user, I’d also like to see much better external display support. This would only be for the times I actually require it, rather than having to buy a power limited laptop that I just wont want to carry around.

For me, the situation is clear. I don’t need to buy a new iPad pro until there’s significant software improvements to do so. And I won’t ever be buying a MacBook, well, unless they introduce one with a detachable keyboard that is more ideal for media consumption.

I don’t need any more power now to do the limited things I can do on iPadOS, it wouldn’t help Remote Desktop. If I could use VMs, terminal, plug an external display in things might be different. If I could jump into macOS, I wouldn’t even need to look at the price.

It quite easy to say “well iPad isn’t meant for you”, which is true right now. Though all technical reasons for that statement are now gone. Hopefully Apple decide to fill this gap some day.

I’m not asking to get rid of iPadOS, improvements would definitely be welcome. But these seem to be taking years. One feature every two years is horribly slow and unnecessary. I also find it incredibly annoying that the only reason we can’t also have macOS on an iPad that is more than capable of running it is because of ‘marketing’ or ‘profits’. Dual booting or hypervisor framework wouldn’t destroy iPad in its tablet form. I don’t think anyone wants to do that.

For now I’ll just continue to wait, not buying either an iPad pro or MacBook.

 

[Digitalguy]

I’m not asking to get rid of iPadOS, improvements would definitely be welcome. But these seem to be taking years. One feature every two years is horribly slow and unnecessary. I also find it incredibly annoying that the only reason we can’t also have macOS on an iPad that is more than capable of running it is because of ‘marketing’ or ‘profits’. Dual booting or hypervisor framework wouldn’t destroy iPad in its tablet form. I don’t think anyone wants to do that.

For now I’ll just continue to wait, not buying either an iPad pro or MacBook.

Apple is a for profit company, like others... So it's not surprising.... If they don't do it, it just means they don't think it would be a profitable choice. And knowing them, if they ever allow MacOS in bootcamp, they'll disable touch, otherwise people would start asking why not touch on Macs. And if they do via external monitor only (again non touch) it will be mainly a home solution because on the go it's even less convenient than carrying a laptop + iPad...