All iPads iPadOS Really Needs Its "Mac OS X" Release

[Zest28]

iPhones and iPads are different devices and different markets

I will ask a third time, where are your facts that you base your claims on?

Really, stop dodging and provide the facts.

 

[Digitalguy]

I will ask a third time, where are your facts that you base your claims on?

Really, stop dodging and provide the facts.

First, learn to talk more politely to people.

Second, I have read several reports, before Apple stopped breaking down iPad sales by model a couple of years ago, and I needed some time to find any of them, so no point in posting repeated messages one a few minute after the other asking for the same thing.
One is this https://www.phonearena.com/news/ipad-mini-world-best-selling-tablet-q1-2022_id140444
Where the base iPad and the iPad mini and first and second.
So these reports don't match.

You posted a report from 9to5mac, not from the orginal publication, which is paid. And we have no idea what they base the data on since Apple no longer gives official numbers.
These are not official data from Apple, regardless of what you claim.
They could be based on a sample of sales in the US, which means very little.

 

[NT1440]

Apple's most popular iPad shifted to this model in 2023 - 9to5Mac

In October 2022, Apple updated its tablet lineup with new iPad Pro models and the launch of the entry-level iPad...

9to5mac.com

It’s CIRP data which is a source that is used by investors, analyst and market participants.

Now where are your facts, you still haven’t posted it?

If we’re going to talk “facts”, have you ever drilled down enough to see how the likes of CIRP actually make their estimates?



Citing that the cesspool of market analysts use it doesn’t mean anything. Every few years that segment is trumpeting that Blockchain is going to change everything (no wait, Web3, no, NFT’s, no I’ve got it this time, AI…previously called machine learning) and convince fools to dump billions into the new hype cycle. You might as well read tea leaves.

Edit: I’ll never understand how image embedding has gotten so screwy here on mobile…

 

[Zest28]

First, learn to talk more politely to people.

Second, I have read several reports, before Apple stopped breaking down iPad sales by model a couple of years ago, and I needed some time to find any of them, so no point in posting repeated messages one a few minute after the other asking for the same thing.
One is this https://www.phonearena.com/news/ipad-mini-world-best-selling-tablet-q1-2022_id140444
Where the base iPad and the iPad mini and first and second.
So these reports don't match.

You posted a report from 9to5mac, not from the orginal publication, which is paid. And we have no idea what they base the data on since Apple no longer gives official numbers.
These are not official data from Apple, regardless of what you claim.
They could be based on a sample of sales in the US, which means very little.

I was polite, the one who wasn’t polite was you by not taking your responsibility of backing up your claim like I asked to. I even had to ask it 3 times.

So your source is some guy named Francisco Jeronimo? Ok fine.

”Completing the top 3 was another iPad — the iPad Pro (2021). Apple’s high-end tablet comes in two sizes and starts at $799, but that high price hasn’t dissuaded customers, with the latest iPad Pro outselling every Android tablet on the market”

So it doesn’t back up your claim that the iPad Pro is just a niche device as it is beating every single Android device out there even according to Francisco Jeronimo.

 

[NT1440]

I was polite, the one who wasn’t polite was you by not taking your responsibility of backing up your claim like I asked to. I even had to ask it 3 times.

So your source is some guy named Francisco Jeronimo? Ok fine.

”Completing the top 3 was another iPad — the iPad Pro (2021). Apple’s high-end tablet comes in two sizes and starts at $799, but that high price hasn’t dissuaded customers, with the latest iPad Pro outselling every Android tablet on the market”

So it doesn’t back up your claim that the iPad Pro is just a niche device as it is beating every single Android device out there even according to Francisco Jeronimo.

There’s a problem in your logic here though.

The tablet market, when you look at it holistically, is basically iPads…and then the rounding error of Android tablets. The iPad Pro specifically outselling the almost nonexistent “competition” in the space doesn’t bolster the notion that the Pro *isn’t* a niche product, because it is.

 

[Digitalguy]

I was polite, the one who wasn’t polite was you by not taking your responsibility of backing up your claim like I asked to. I even had to ask it 3 times.

So your source is some guy named Francisco Jeronimo? Ok fine.

”Completing the top 3 was another iPad — the iPad Pro (2021). Apple’s high-end tablet comes in two sizes and starts at $799, but that high price hasn’t dissuaded customers, with the latest iPad Pro outselling every Android tablet on the market”

So it doesn’t back up your claim that the iPad Pro is just a niche device as it is beating every single Android device out there.

Yes, an IDC analyist. For your information IDC one of the most reputable companies, together with Gartner and Statista, for these type of statistics.

I never talked about Android in my post.
But, as I said in a recent previous post, there are people on Macrumors that have very different opinions from mine, but I do appreciate the constructive dialogue with them. Unfortunately from your posts you don't seem one of them.

 

[Zest28]

There’s a problem in your logic here though.

The tablet market, when you look at it holistically, is basically iPads…and then the rounding error of Android tablets. The iPad Pro specifically outselling the almost nonexistent “competition” in the space doesn’t bolster the notion that the Pro *isn’t* a niche product, because it is.

Yeah, 45% market share that Android has in the tablet market with Samsung having 28% market share is really a rounding error. They are so insignificant really.

If the iPad Pro was so niche, Apple would have discontinued it like they did with the iPhone 13 Mini and the 27” iMac. So your logic is wrong, because this is what Apple does with such devices if what you claim that the iPad Pro is true.

 

[NT1440]

Yeah, 45% market share that Android has in the tablet market with Samsung having 28% market share is really a rounding error. They are so insignificant really.

If the iPad Pro was so niche, Apple would have discontinued it like they did with the iPhone 13 Mini and the 27” iMac. So your logic is wrong, because this is what Apple does with such devices if what you claim that the iPad Pro is true.

Niche doesn’t mean it’s not a major profit maker, you understand that right? It’s usually the super high end niche products that finance the ability to produce the “lower” tier models.

Also, when you get a chance take a look at the profit shares in the tablet industry instead of market share. There is no completion.

 

[Zest28]

Yes, an IDC analyist. For your information IDC one of the most reputable companies, together with Gartner and Statista, for these type of statistics.

I never talked about Android in my post.
But, as I said in a recent previous post, there are people on Macrumors that have very different opinions from mine, but I do appreciate the constructive dialogue with them. Unfortunately from your posts you don't seem one of them.

I am being constructive, I have used your source and pointed out to you that he acknowledge that the iPad Pro is a top 3 tablet.

Now you claim that being a top 3 tablet doesn’t mean anything and that the iPad Pro is still a niche device as Android is a rounding error, but I have given you numbers that this isn’t true as Android has 45% market share.

But I’m fine with ending conversation right now, as you have indicated not willing to continue with it. I got better things to do also.

 

[NT1440]

I am being constructive, I have used your source and pointed out to you that he acknowledge that the iPad Pro is a top 3 tablet.

Now you claim that being a top 3 tablet doesn’t mean anything and that the iPad Pro is still a niche device as Android is a rounding error, but I have given you numbers that this isn’t true as Android has 45% market share.

But I’m fine with ending conversation right now, as you have indicated not willing to continue with it.

You’re mixing up who you’re responding to…

 

[Zest28]

You’re mixing up who you’re responding to…

I see, I was having a conservation with Digitalguy and didn‘t realize that you decided to enter also.

In any case, it doesn’t matter. You guys are free to believe that Android is a rounding error and that the iPad Pro is a niche device. I’m all fine with that.

As me and Digitalguy already have established, we are ending this conversation now.

 

[NT1440]

I see, I was having a conservation with Digitalguy and didn‘t realize that you decided to enter also.

Yup, it’s a forum. I was the guy that took issue with CIRP and some of the logic behind your arguments.

Anywho, what’s your take on a macOS type environment on the iPad?

 

[Digitalguy]

I am being constructive, I have used your source and pointed out to you that he acknowledge that the iPad Pro is a top 3 tablet.

Now you claim that being a top 3 tablet doesn’t mean anything and that the iPad Pro is still a niche device as Android is a rounding error, but I have given you numbers that this isn’t true as Android has 45% market share.

But I’m fine with ending conversation right now, as you have indicated not willing to continue with it. I got better things to do also.

I didn't say or claim most of what you mentioned, however yes, not much point in discussing this further given the way the conversation is going

 

[Zest28]

I didn't say or claim most of what you mentioned, however yes, not much point in discussing this further given the way the conversation is going

Yes I know, I didn’t realize there was an other guy that was also replying to me.

In any case, let’s stop posting like what we discussed as there is no point to it.

 

[The Game 161]

It's never likely to happen as wouldn't be smart business decision from apple

They want you to buy a mac and an iPad

 

[Yebubbleman]

“iPadOS Really Needs Its "Mac OS X" Release”
No it doesn’t. What’s really needed is for people who want this to stop being cheap and just by a MacBook. With Walmart now selling M1 MacBook Airs for $699 and the 5th-gen iPad Air available on Amazon for as low as $449, it’s totally affordable to own both devices.
No kludgy OS adaptation required.

That's not the point being made here! A 12.9" iPad Pro costs MORE than a MacBook Air and doesn't do nearly as much. Incidentally, I'm not sure how many times I need to say this in this thread; taking the iPad Pro and iPad Air, giving them yet another more advanced fork of iPadOS doesn't equate to making some macOS/iPadOS abomination. Nor does it mean that the lower-end iPads have to change at all, seeing as they're already fragmented from M-series iPads (and have been allowed to be this way since iPadOS 16 was first demoed back in Summer 2022).

I am not sure if OP was being intentionally vague or not.
But I take his point being, the iPadOS needs the same kind of transformational treatment that happened for Macs, when going from OS 9 to OS X. This fundamentally changed and built how the future Macs interface with the user for the better. So his point is that the current iPadOS is akin to when OS 9 felt just a rehash of OS 8/7/6 and so on, just Xerox UI on steroids, with an ancient kernel as well. OS X with its BSD kernel along with the modern (at the time) UI/UX laid the groundwork of what we mostly see nowadays.

DING DING DING!!! You nailed my point! I don't want a macOS/iPadOS hybrid. I want an iPadOS that actually takes advantage of the fact that the iPad Air and iPad Pro use the same computing guts as what you find in MacBook Airs and two-Thunderbolt-ports models of MacBook Pro. The same OS that I'd find acceptable the 10th Generation iPad and the 6th Generation iPad mini is not an OS I currently find acceptable on the fifth generation iPad Air nor the third or fourth generation 11-inch iPad Pros. And it's REALLY not an OS I currently find acceptable on the 5th and 6th Generation 12.9-inch iPad Pros.

iPadOS is a content consumption and simple computing OS first and foremost. The iPad Pro is not designed nor marketed to be just for those things in the way that the standard model iPad is nor in the way that the iPad mini is at its core. Hell, I'm still not entirely sure why the iPad Air now has M-series chips (though I'm not about to look that gifthorse in the mouth; though I totally will lump it in with the iPad Pro in saying that iPadOS could stand to be more advanced on it).

Yeah, it’s a solution that is so simple and so easy to achieve that the extreme minority’s insistence is hilarious: sell the iPad, buy a Mac. Easy. But don’t obliterate the iPad due to the wishes of an extreme minority please, thank you.

If you need another device? Buy another Mac.

Who said anything about obliterating the iPad?

Standard iPad and iPad mini exist for those that like things as they are.

If you're buying an iPad Pro and are satisfied with what you're getting for the cost, you either have no choice (because the features are make or break for you and/or your use case) or you have enough money to not care that it isn't as good as an actual computer at the heavy tasks and nor as financially efficient at being what it is as the standard iPad or iPad mini is.

I think there are two categories of people.
1. People who just want macOS on their iPads, these people are just wrong, that would be a terrible user experience.
2. People who are frustrated by some of the limitations of iPadOS

I think people in camp 2 have a lot of legitimate points, I especially think the way Apple designed the system to handle file operations on iPadOS to be a problem. It isn’t so much that I can’t access the full file system, that I don’t care about, what I care about is the fact that trying to work on large files frequently leads to freezes as a result of iCloud doing some upload nonsense in the background. The fact that they designed the system to be cloud first is a bug not a feature. The system desperately needs a rethink.

For the record, the original post (as well as every single comment I've made on this thread) is in the spirit of the second category. I do not want macOS on iPad. And I don't see why both of these categories continued to be blurred by everyone commenting against the idea that iPadOS, (again) at least on M-series iPads, needs a massive advancement.

I think that a lot of people complaining are in a category that blurs the line between 1 and 2, or does not fit well either.
This is the category that I call "I want to bring only one device with me" or even "I want to have only one device other than my phone". And get a Mac is not an acceptable answer.

As that can mean:
I want the convenience of a tablet without a keyboard, the possibility to draw or takes handwritten notes, I want the convenience cellular, but at the same time the ability to use the desktop apps I need, generally for work.
That's where having just a Mac or just an iPad, even one with a better OS does not work and will never work, as those desktop apps are never coming to the iPad, some aren't even coming to the Mac, but on Mac you can use Parallels to run them resonably well.

These people need to bring a Mac and an iPad or get something like a surface pro, the only type of device that can do it all (but with all the X86 drawbacks, which might disappear with the new X Elite chips, but that's assuming these people are ok with Windows instead of MacOS)

People in the second category are people who do not need desktop apps and are only bothered by the app centric and cloud centric nature of the OS (and similar phone-like OS caracteristics)

I think a better way of thinking about this whole exercise is to try to figure ways in which a 12.9-inch iPad Pro cannot replace a MacBook Air (not in terms of running macOS, but in terms of getting certain things done) and then try to fill in the gaps while still having it be iPadOS at the end of the day and not macOS. Apple is clearly able to bring window management, a rudimentary form of virtual memory, and even trackpad and keyboard usage to iPadOS. It's not like they can't fill in those gaps to make iPadOS as powerful as macOS without making it macOS. And they're clearly not opposed to fragmenting iPads into this whole "M-series iPads vs. A-series iPads" feature set differences. Just keep the differences going and eventually, you'll be left with the modern equivalent of iPads as they were back in 2013 (e.g. the tenth Generation iPad and the sixth Generation iPad mini) with yet another category of advanced mobile computers designed for content creation and high-end content consumption (e.g. M-series iPads, be they "Air", "Pro", and/or otherwise). I don't see a problem with this. The "I want the iPad to stay as it is" crowd will be fine with A-series iPads. The "I want my iPad Pro to be a powerful Mac alternative" crowd can hop on board the evolution train.

This is a real annoyance, one that is less so with larger storage capacity iPads, which make it less necessary for iPadOS to be updating files to the cloud. To totally prevent this, I copy files over to Local Storage and work on them there.

As for the file system, it’s really frustrating that I don’t have access to my music files the way I do on Mac. Why shouldn’t I be able to change the metadata on my music tracks?

This is exactly the entire point.

Even so, I prefer iPad to run its simple and lightweight OS. I don’t mind reaching for my MacBook to do the heavyweight, crunchy stuff.

Who's to say that even with a more advanced version of iPadOS that can do more on M-series iPads that you won't still be able to have that particular cake and eat it too? The black-and-white thinking surrounding this topic is sort of mind-boggling to me.

So if you owned a company that was successfully selling two product lines you would combine them into one and thereby halve your revenue?

Not cowards, wise business people.

Again, not sure where you're reading "converge Mac and iPad" from "give iPadOS capability befitting the same M-series chips that are in MacBook Airs and 2-Thunderbolt-Port MacBook Pros". Like, that's a wild jump to be making.

The "leave the iPad alone" people are generally afraid that their iPad experience could change and become less "simple". Some might even prefer iOS to iPadOS.

Which:

(a) isn't what's being proposed by this topic

(b) wouldn't necessarily have to happen in making iPadOS more advanced a la Mac OS X compared to Mac OS 9; it's not like Mac OS X became HARDER to use than Mac OS 9

(c) probably wouldn't be a concern on the A-series iPads anyway

Not that Apple has any intention of letting MacOS run on iPad as a virtual machine or dual boot anytime soon if ever, but in an imaginary world were they had that intention, these people should welcome a MacOS option for power users instead of iPadOS becoming more desktop like, but they are not able to even realize that....

Kind of depends on the experience. 13-inch MacBooks are not the most comfortable for running VMs; I would assume that'd still be the case on any 11-inch or 12.9/13-inch iPad as well.

 

[prospervic]

Who's to say that even with a more advanced version of iPadOS that can do more on M-series iPads that you won't still be able to have that particular cake and eat it too? The black-and-white thinking surrounding this topic is sort of mind-boggling to me.

Again, not sure where you're reading "converge Mac and iPad" from "give iPadOS capability befitting the same M-series chips that are in MacBook Airs and 2-Thunderbolt-Port MacBook Pros". Like, that's a wild jump to be making.

I was reading into your thread title all of the previous comments here and elsewhere demanding that Apple port macOS onto iPad as the only solution to it’s limitations, something I find to be lazy thinking at best and ignores the virtues of the iPad physical form the elegance of iPadOS.

Reading your more detailed argument above I find myself agreeing with the notion of a transition “event” similar to what occurred when OSX took over from OS9. Perhaps Apple has something this significant in the works (or maybe they did, but it’s be derailed by the shift in emphasis to Vision Pro).

I’m wondering if iPadOS’s renaissance will involve generative AI at its core: ask the iPad to accomplish some Mac-only task, and it will do so without any of the jumping through hoops needed today. With this the very concept of an iPad will be fundamentally different.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Checklist of what's in place.
-Same silicone chip in iPad Pros and Mac
-External monitor support
-USB-C support for ethernet, external storage and peripherals.
-iOS apps on MacOS

Have I missed anything? It appears that everything is in place for iPad to run desktop applications. This could be activated when the device is connected to an external 16:10 display.

 

[sparksd]

Checklist of what's in place.
-Same silicone chip in iPad Pros and Mac
-External monitor support
-USB-C support for ethernet, external storage and peripherals.
-iOS apps on MacOS

Have I missed anything? It appears that everything is in place for iPad to run desktop applications. This could be activated when the device is connected to an external 16:10 display.

It is capable of running many desktop apps but it is up to developers to port those apps to the iPad and sell them through the App Store, something they'll do when they see a reasonable ROI.

 

[Macalicious2011]

It is capable of running many desktop apps but it is up to developers to port those apps to the iPad and sell them through the App Store, something they'll do when they see a reasonable ROI.

It's a shame that many apps on the iPad are nerfed. Essential features or workflows are more often not available, even for basic software like Docs, Sheets or Excel.

This can result in me wasting time and energy trying to make things work or find workarounds than actually getting stuff done.

I still love it though and it works fab with Logi combo touch and MX mouse. GF bought me a lap desk for Christmas which is a match made in heaven for the iPad. My 13 inch MacBook Pro also fits on it.

 

[sparksd]

It's a shame that many apps on the iPad are nerfed. Essential features or workflows are more often not available, even for basic software like Docs, Sheets or Excel.

This can result in me wasting time and energy trying to make things work or find workarounds than actually getting stuff done.

I still love it though and it works fab with Logi combo touch and MX mouse. GF bought me a lap desk for Christmas which is a match made in heaven for the iPad. My 13 inch MacBook Pro also fits on it.

View attachment 2364760

I often have a similar setup with M1 12.9, Magic Keyboard, and MX Master 3. I use it as a complement to my laptop and choose my device to use based on the task at hand. I understand the desire for a single device but it's not a necessity for me.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I was reading into your thread title all of the previous comments here and elsewhere demanding that Apple port macOS onto iPad as the only solution to it’s limitations, something I find to be lazy thinking at best and ignores the virtues of the iPad physical form the elegance of iPadOS.

Yeah, definitely not what I was going for. And yeah, I agree that people actually wanting to merge them rather than advance iPadOS a la Mac OS X compared to Mac OS 9 is lazy thinking that disregards Apple's marketing and anything other than a blind desire for a touch screen Mac (Touch Screen on Windows is a cool feature, but it's not necessary.)

Reading your more detailed argument above I find myself agreeing with the notion of a transition “event” similar to what occurred when OSX took over from OS9. Perhaps Apple has something this significant in the works (or maybe they did, but it’s be derailed by the shift in emphasis to Vision Pro).

I do think that Stage Manager and the other M-series-iPad-specific iPadOS features are definitely a start down this path. And again, I'd say that Apple doesn't want fragmentation here; but unless they release updated iPad minis and standard iPads that gain those features, they're pretty much fragmenting iPadOS between standard+mini and Air+Pro anyway.

I’m wondering if iPadOS’s renaissance will involve generative AI at its core: ask the iPad to accomplish some Mac-only task, and it will do so without any of the jumping through hoops needed today. With this the very concept of an iPad will be fundamentally different.

I could see that being an element. Then again, iOS and iPadOS generally don't entail the use of any discernable daemons, let alone trigger based scriptability. I feel like that'd need to be an element for AI to do more than the basics that you're able to use Shortcuts with now.

 

[dalestrauss]

This is a terrible solution to such an incredibly niche use case (people who want Mac apps on their iPad).

It's this kind of assumption that drives me batty. Even here, in the bastion of iPaddyness, there are many users asking for MacOS or a MacOS-like experience on their $2000 iPad Pros. And with writers like Monica Chin at The Verge calling out Apple as cowards for not bringing MacOS to the iPad, I think I'm more than just part of a niche demand.

 

[bcortens]

It's this kind of assumption that drives me batty. Even here, in the bastion of iPaddyness, there are many users asking for MacOS or a MacOS-like experience on their $2000 iPad Pros. And with writers like Monica Chin at The Verge calling out Apple as cowards for not bringing MacOS to the iPad, I think I'm more than just part of a niche demand.

People who comment on Internet forums about iPad are very niche.

If a lack of macOS on iPad was such a detriment Apple wouldn’t be selling millions of iPads every quarter even when it has been more than a year since they were last updated.

 

[prospervic]

And with writers like Monica Chin at The Verge calling out Apple as cowards for not bringing MacOS to the iPad, I think I'm more than just part of a niche demand.

Calling Apple "cowards" for not putting macOS on iPad is just as silly as Phil Schiller saying it was an act of "courage" when Apple removed the headphone jack from iPhone.