iPhones and iPads are heavily discounted in China as per my personal experience. There are too many retailers who try to sell with various discounts.
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iPhone 15 Sales in China Increasingly Dependent on Promotions
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Are you talking about ChatGPT 4.0 and actually properly using it like it's suppose to? I doubt it.
I don't think time is on Apple's side in respects to AI.
This is true for almost all products. Except for some imported luxury goods, everything is cheaper in China. A basic VW vehicle could be 40-50% cheaper in China for the end-customer compared to the US or Europe. The Chinese customers are one of the most demanding in the world (in terms of value for bugs), and if you add the fact that the market is extremely competitive, you end up with companies operating on extremely thin margins in China in order to get any meaningful market share. There are even westerns companies that operate on losses in China and offset such losses with profits from western market where the rich and stupid customers are willing to pay more for goods and services. The brand loyalty of the Chinese customer is also significantly lower compared to customers in western countries.
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No offense but that's actually what you did.Way to focus on one tiny tree and ignore the forest.
Your accusations that Huawei is making cheaper phones because they use "Stolen IP" don't make any logical sense.
After Huawei was hit by the sanctions their ability to work with western suppliers, business partners and high end fabs was basically neutered. Even so they are still making competitive hardware in every category. Isn't that surprising? maybe it wasn't because of the "stolen IP" that Huawei was so competitive before the sanctions, because if they were, why are they able to still build this competitive hardware? Just check out the Mate 60 Pro+ or the Mate X5.
The same thing can be said about of the other big Chinese Smartphone companies. I know apple fans think that because a Chinese phone implements the same software feature found in iphones or make their interface very similar with iOS that they "stole IP" and didn't had to make any actual R&D investments but that's not true because what they actually stole was just the idea, an idea they had to implement and build from scratch themselves as Android is a totally different platform, its not like you can take iOS code and simply paste it in Android and voila.
I was speaking generally about China's long history of IP theft, that is why I specifically mentioned (or any other company) and (such as Huawei). A simple web search will show a plethora of examples.
It sounds like UK customers can more easily get new “unlocked” (no particular carrier commitment) iPhones for a fair amount less (before VAT and sales tax) than the same phones in the U.S.
A £100 discount on a 128GB iPhone 15 would bring the pre-VAT price down to £583 which at the current exchange rate is around $736 USD. The same phone in the U.S. is $829 retail (before sales tax) with discounts harder to come by here without carrier commitments.
While true I also disagree with part of this. Here in the U.S. we have no choice but to bend the knee to Apple, Google, Samsung, and the carriers with their BS "discounts". I am visiting China in 7 weeks, if the latest Oppo or Xiaomi phones worked on all bands in the U.S. I'd throw my S24+ in the trash over there and buy one of those devices. The carriers and "big 3" companies will do everything they can to prevent that from happening. I don't buy the political excuses for one minute. Apple, Samsung, Google, carriers (and their investors, boards, regulators and everyone else who are in their pockets) will all lose a ton of money if those Chinese brands worked here and they know it.
People are slowly wising up. Hisense is (arguably) making better TVs than Samsung or Sony and selling at half the price. Chinese EVs will be sold for cheap in Chile and other S. American countries, offering superior features. Tesla and others should be worried.
*Edit- Huawei I wouldn't trust and despise them.
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I don't know you mentioned Huawei specifically.
We reached a maturity point for the Smartphone market in which "IP theft" doesn't get you anywhere, in order to be competitive you need to invest in R&D. This is obvious for anybody.
Yeah but right now for the present and the latest hardware they are building, what Huawei did years ago is irrelevant anyway.
Your point is moot.
Yes, but I also included (or any other company), it is there in black and white yet you choose to ignore it.
I disagree. If you stole IP for the base you are years ahead in terms of R&D versus starting from ground zero.
Again I disagree, see above. If getting to today, in terms of product maturity, is a 10 step process then stealing IP gets you to step 5 with zero effort then it is easier to get to step 10 than if you started at step 1. Or if you prefer a race analogy, it is easier to finish a marathon if you start at the half way point.
My point is not moot, that is your opinion, you are entitled to it but it does not negate mine.
I think we are in agree to disagree territory but here you go:
Huawei Just Copied the iPhone—Down to the Last Screw
The only reason Huawei would use Apple's star-shaped security screw is because it's what Apple uses, and Huawei wants its phone to look like an iPhone.
New report shows the lengths to which Huawei has gone to copy Apple
An engineer for the China-based smartphone maker Huawei recently sent a photo of some product design material to an Apple supplier. The Huawei engineer’s note …
bgr.com
Bombshell report accuses Huawei of using questionable tactics to copy Apple's technology
Huawei is using questionable methods in order to copy Apple's technology according to a new report published today. The Chinese manufacturer has already been indicted for stealing tech secrets from T-Mobile.
www.phonearena.com
In brief: Huawei has regularly tried to steal Apple IP, report claims
The detailed allegations come at a time when the Chinese company is already under the spotlight.
www.techinasia.com
Huawei's Efforts to Steal Apple Trade Secrets Include Employee Bonus Program and Other Dubious Tactics
Last month, the United States Justice Department announced a series of criminal charges against Chinese smartphone maker Huawei for stealing trade...
www.macrumors.com
Shall I go on?
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Yeah and the Huawei example you gave(don't forget you suggested Huawei's current smartphones are cheap because they stole IP years ago) disqualifies your argument anyway and shows you don't really know what you are taking about.
You can disagree al you want but the reality is clear, smartphones are a mature market, you can't cheat you way up. Anyway you only make generalizations you don't even know specifically what IP they stole, how valuable it was how helpful it was and so on. You also don't have a clear example to give of IP theft that propelled a Chinese manufacturer, just bits and pieces and a heavy dose of assumptions to connect them.
In the past there were a lot more Chinese smartphone manufacturers. Why didn't they all get to point 10 if all they did was steal IP which made it super easy for them to succeed, like you are suggesting? Why the market in China has settled between only a few big domestic manufactures?
And first of all I'm curious what IP they had to steal to get to that point 5 like you are suggesting? I bet you don't know.
Yeah it is, you just focus on one tiny tree and ignore the forest.
For example let's take the Mate 60 Pro+ or the Mate X5. What IP did Huawei steal from Apple in order to be able to develop these smartphones? come on, you said Huawei's smartphones are cheaper because they steal IP so you must have some examples, you didn't just assume that. Noo?
I mean you 100% searched online for "Huawei stole Apple IP" an all you could come up with was a few articles about the same thing(so you could have posted 1 link) that suggest they tried to steal IP from Apple. You basically made my case for me, if directly searching for it this was all you were able to find.
Anyway have you seen what smartphones the big Chinese OEM's launched this year? Most likely you didn't but I would still ask the question, can you give precise examples of stolen IP that made these smartphones possible?
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Major carriers have already been selling Chinese brand phones in the U.S. for a while e.g., OnePlus and TCL. Those, and others, have long worked on networks here. Many carriers/MVNOs also offer other Chinese brand (or re-branded) phones as cheap (if not free) options.
Getting U.S. customers to potentially pay $400-$500 or more for a good Chinese-brand phone can be a lot more difficult than getting them to pay $100 or less for an entry one. Customers buying cheap phones don't necessarily know or care about "brand" (company origin) but can become a lot more particular as prices move into the hundreds of dollars.
I don’t know anybody who regularly upgrade their iPhone in Western Europe so I’d imagine China is a slower market even if it has a lot my sales due to population. Apple doesn’t run promotions ever in the UK and trade ins are dreadful compared to the US. It’s been driving most to keep iPhones much longer for quite a few years now and £1k for the standard iPhone 15 is rather ridiculous considering the amount of features that are held back in favour of the Pro.
According to another poster in this thread, it sounds like discounts on new unlocked (no contact) iPhones are common in the UK (post #68) unlike here in the U.S. where new iPhone discounts are rare unless tied to a carrier commitment.
They’re not common, they pop up on Amazon occasionally half way through a cycle but the iPhone tends to hold its full retail cost until a couple of weeks before the next release.
I've seen them on deal more than once on amazon/currys/John Lewis throughout the year in the UK.
Reason being, they know everyone HAS to have one in the US or be ostracised while the UK, they want you to have one over the other choices you have and know you don't give a rats buttocks about iMessage or bubbles.
Reason being, they know everyone HAS to have one in the US or be ostracised while the UK, they want you to have one over the other choices you have and know you don't give a rats buttocks about iMessage or bubbles.
1. Labor in China is not cheap (it was a few decades ago). What companies need is efficient manufacturing at scale. If you suddenly need to increase the output of a factory with a few millions units, China vast logistic network can help you with that. If you are short on certain components, there is long list of suppliers next door ready to ship overnight. If you need extra 2-3,000 workers in the factory for the holiday season, China can handle that with no problem.
2. China just don't respect IP. It is cultural thing. If you want to be on the top and stay there, you need to constantly innovate and stay one step in front of the competition. Not just relying on 20 years old patent for example. By the time someone has copied your product or technology, you should have already developed even more advanced technology. It is a constant game of "catch me up if you can".
3. Again, there is no cheap labor in China. What China has is a vast amount of workforce that is proficient in manufacturing, while in most western countries you can hardly find sufficient workers for large manufacturing facilities. If you want to bring all iPhone manufacturing in the US today, you want be able to assemble even half of what the market is demanding, regardless of price.
Instead of crying about the unfair competition from China, what the US and Europe should do is beat China in its own game. This requires changing completely the mindset of the existing and next generation, and undertake some large scale reforms in the economy in general, the educational system, the regulatory frameworks, etc.
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