iPhone 6(S)/Plus iPhone 6S Plus: stay at iOS 10.1.1 or upgrade to iOS 15.5?

[Andeddu]

Honestly… because I like it this way. I don’t even need the battery life: Full day uses of my Xʀ frequently finish with 4 hours of screen-on time, which drop the Xʀ to… 80%. On LTE, if the screen-on time is similar, battery life drops to… 70-75%.

I use the 6s as a phone too, and I do need iOS 10 there. iOS 15 would‘ve been a hassle many times and it is likely that I would have needed a charger on heavier usage days (I do not need it with iOS 10), but yeah, on the Xʀ? My own estimates show it gets me about 12 hours of full LTE use. Let’s assume it drops a third on iOS 16, maybe a little more. To 7 hours. Is that not enough? Nope, it is. I don’t have a single day in which I need 7 hours of screen-on time. It is highly likely that iOS 16 would be enough for my uses… but I don’t need iOS 16 and I like the battery life and the performance. So I keep it there.

One of the main reasons I wanted to buy the Air 5 is because battery life dropped from 14 hours on iOS 9 to 10.5 hours on iOS 12 on my favourite iPad ever, the 9.7-inch iPad Pro. Is 10 hours not enough? Nope, it is. But I knew it wasn’t as good it should be. So I didn’t like that part as much anymore. It might be a little odd, I acknowledge it. But I like iOS devices, otherwise I wouldn’t be on this forum. So I bought the Air 5. Now we are cool. It gets me like 23 hours of screen-on time. I don’t want iPadOS 16, because it might drop that to 20 hours. Or 18. And I don’t want 20. I don‘t want 18. I want 23. Not a second less. 23. Always. Furthermore, performance, unlike what I thought would happen before being forced to update my 9.7-inch iPad Pro, is perfect. So there’s no reason there. Also, another very important reason is that I wanted the full-screen design. I love it now that I have it, and it’s perfect. But my main annoyance with the 9.7-inch iPad Pro was a battery life I didn’t even need. But like I said, I like it this way. I like it when it works properly. My Air 5 is perfect on iPadOS 15. Performance and battery life-wise, and the screen is amazing. So I will leave it there.
I will say, however, that in spite of it being forced to iOS 12 and in spite of the battery life drop, my 9.7-inch iPad Pro is still my favourite iPad ever. Even if it isn’t perfect. It would be perfect on iOS 9, like it was before Apple forced me to update it. But it’s okay, you can’t have everything.

Battery health is irrelevant to me, because it doesn’t impact battery life. I don’t follow any preservation techniques, I change it when I want it, to what I want. 100%, let it drop to 0%, I don’t care. As long as actual battery life is okay, I’m fine with it. My 6s is at 63% health. And it is great.

So you’re basically using numerous devices on various iOS versions because you like it that way. Right, that’s fine. It’s really odd but it’s fine.

You have more battery life than you know what to do with and you are trying to brute force remaining on a device’s original iOS version and circumventing the challenges by adding more and more devices as a workaround. When iOS 15 eventually loses app functionality on your iPad Air 5, for example, rather than updating, you will purchase a completely new device to add to your current chain of devices. It’s still mind boggling and definitely not normal, but I am starting to understand. I don’t agree with it, but I understand what you are trying to do.

As long as you are happy, I guess, lol. I don’t see how it’s making your life easier in any way, shape or form. Surely it makes sense to have one iPhone along with an optional device such as an iPad rather than multiple iPhones and iPads. It just seems like you’re being stubborn. Nobody does what you’re doing… I have seen people 2 iOS versions behind but they eventually update when they lose app compatibility, you don’t.

 

[FeliApple]

So you’re basically using numerous devices on various iOS versions because you like it that way. Right, that’s fine. It’s really odd but it’s fine.

You have more battery life than you know what to do with and you are trying to brute force remaining on a device’s original iOS version and circumventing the challenges by adding more and more devices as a workaround. When iOS 15 eventually loses app functionality on your iPad Air 5, for example, rather than updating, you will purchase a completely new device to add to your current chain of devices. It’s still mind boggling and definitely not normal, but I am starting to understand. I don’t agree with it, but I understand what you are trying to do.

As long as you are happy, I guess, lol. I don’t see how it’s making your life easier in any way, shape or form. Surely it makes sense to have one iPhone along with an optional device such as an iPad rather than multiple iPhones and iPads. It just seems like you’re being stubborn. Nobody does what you’re doing… I have seen people 2 iOS versions behind but they eventually update when they lose app compatibility, you don’t.

Yeah, basically it’s because I like it when they work properly in terms of both performance and battery life. I try to allow nothing to impact that. And I am pretty intolerant to issues with those two key factors.

Trust me, if Apple allowed me to move freely between iOS versions, I’d at least try. Have Apple sign everything all the time, and I’d start testing every iOS version: with my device, what’s the most updated I can be with perfect performance and battery life? Then I’d update to that. Unfortunately, Apple doesn’t do that. If they did, I’d be the first person to update.

It’s honestly less annoying on iPads, I just use them for content consumption. I use my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12 for the exact same things I use the iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15. Staying behind on iPads is far less annoying, like I said.

But yes, that is essentially what I am doing. When it stops working, I’ll see what I do. For now, it’s okay. I can circumvent it like that, whilst maintaining (almost) perfect performance and battery life.

Two iPhones and two iPads, 3 perfect (iPhone 6s, iOS 10; iPhone Xʀ, iOS 12; iPad Air 5, iPadOS 15), one far better than a fully updated device on iPadOS 16, but not so perfect, it could be on iOS 9. At least I could keep it on iOS 12, that device is the 9.7-inch iPad Pro. Good enough for me, now that I have the Air 5 as the perfect iPad.

I agree, it doesn’t make my iOS experience easier... it makes it better. I am willing to put up with these minor support annoyances just to have a perfect experience. Nobody with a device updated far enough can say their experience is perfect. At most, it’s “good enough for me”. But it could be better. If they can tolerate the drawbacks, it is a better experience.

Ever since I started using iOS devices, my version was either too new to have issues, or I had other devices to circumvent issues. All advantages, no drawbacks.

If my Xʀ on iOS 12 loses support to a level in which it bothers me? I have a 6s on iOS 13 in a drawer, I’ll update that to iOS 15. With my requirements, it will last a while. Battery life and performance have been obliterated by iOS 13, anyway.

People don’t tolerate app compatibility issues. Many, many people would like to stay behind for the same reasons I stay behind, but app compatibility issues push them to update, and like I said... it makes perfect sense. Yeah, at the third major update more things start being a little annoying. iOS 12 is still perfect for me though. Maybe my requirements are less demanding.

PD: Also, a little something about the 6s on iOS 10: Apple obliterated 3D Touch on iOS 13. It's the coolest feature Apple ever released, in my opinion, and they deliberately broke it on iOS 13. Peek and Pop doesn't work, and it's far inferior in many ways. Like I said, it's my favourite feature ever, and I have a 6s on iOS 13. They broke it.

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, basically it’s because I like it when they work properly in terms of both performance and battery life. I try to allow nothing to impact that. And I am pretty intolerant to issues with those two key factors.

Trust me, if Apple allowed me to move freely between iOS versions, I’d at least try. Have Apple sign everything all the time, and I’d start testing every iOS version: with my device, what’s the most updated I can be with perfect performance and battery life? Then I’d update to that. Unfortunately, Apple doesn’t do that. If they did, I’d be the first person to update.

It’s honestly less annoying on iPads, I just use them for content consumption. I use my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12 for the exact same things I use the iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15. Staying behind on iPads is far less annoying, like I said.

But yes, that is essentially what I am doing. When it stops working, I’ll see what I do. For now, it’s okay. I can circumvent it like that, whilst maintaining (almost) perfect performance and battery life.

Two iPhones and two iPads, 3 perfect (iPhone 6s, iOS 10; iPhone Xʀ, iOS 12; iPad Air 5, iPadOS 15), one far better than a fully updated device on iPadOS 16, but not so perfect, it could be on iOS 9. At least I could keep it on iOS 12, that device is the 9.7-inch iPad Pro. Good enough for me, now that I have the Air 5 as the perfect iPad.

I agree, it doesn’t make my iOS experience easier... it makes it better. I am willing to put up with these minor support annoyances just to have a perfect experience. Nobody with a device updated far enough can say their experience is perfect. At most, it’s “good enough for me”. But it could be better. If they can tolerate the drawbacks, it is a better experience.

Ever since I started using iOS devices, my version was either too new to have issues, or I had other devices to circumvent issues. All advantages, no drawbacks.

If my Xʀ on iOS 12 loses support to a level in which it bothers me? I have a 6s on iOS 13 in a drawer, I’ll update that to iOS 15. With my requirements, it will last a while. Battery life and performance have been obliterated by iOS 13, anyway.

People don’t tolerate app compatibility issues. Many, many people would like to stay behind for the same reasons I stay behind, but app compatibility issues push them to update, and like I said... it makes perfect sense. Yeah, at the third major update more things start being a little annoying. iOS 12 is still perfect for me though. Maybe my requirements are less demanding.

PD: Also, a little something about the 6s on iOS 10: Apple obliterated 3D Touch on iOS 13. It's the coolest feature Apple ever released, in my opinion, and they deliberately broke it on iOS 13. Peek and Pop doesn't work, and it's far inferior in many ways. Like I said, it's my favourite feature ever, and I have a 6s on iOS 13. They broke it.

At least your honest insofar that you are a battery and performance extremist who is willing to lose almost all functionality on your device if it means keeping it “perfect”.

I have never spoken to anyone like you which is why I have been so baffled and confused with your rationale. I can absolutely assure you that 99.9% of the population update their phones with no thought in relation to battery life or performance. I think you have been badly burned before with older phones performing horribly after having their useful lives overextended.

Devices such as the 4, 4S and 5 were perhaps dragged an iOS update too far resulting in unacceptable performance. I can assure you that the A9 phones perform suitably well on iOS 15.7.2, perhaps because of the additional RAM. You are aware of this due to the lack of complaints from users on these forums.

Your idea or working properly and mine are completely separate. For me, my device is not working properly if I come across compatibility issues. If, for instance, my device has reached its iOS limit and app compatibility becomes a problem, I retire it. I have no use for technology that is unable to perform the required tasks. You, on the other hand, are willing to prematurely allow your device to become obsolete by refusing to update it and are thereafter willing to purchase a completely separate device to carry out the tasks you had for the original device which, had it been updated, would have been perfectly capable of carrying out those tasks!

Look at the mental gymnastics that I have to go through to understand why you do what you do, haha.

And yes, it’s sad to see unique functionality like 3D Touch disappear after iOS 13. I thought it was a nice feature at the time and it would have been great if Apple had kept it going in their later iOS versions.

 

[FeliApple]

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At least your honest insofar that you are a battery and performance extremist who is willing to lose almost all functionality on your device if it means keeping it “perfect”.

I have never spoken to anyone like you which is why I have been so baffled and confused with your rationale. I can absolutely assure you that 99.9% of the population update their phones with no thought in relation to battery life or performance. I think you have been badly burned before with older phones performing horribly after having their useful lives overextended.

Devices such as the 4, 4S and 5 were perhaps dragged an iOS update too far resulting in unacceptable performance. I can assure you that the A9 phones perform suitably well on iOS 15.7.2, perhaps because of the additional RAM. You are aware of this due to the lack of complaints from users on these forums.

Your idea or working properly and mine are completely separate. For me, my device is not working properly if I come across compatibility issues. If, for instance, my device has reached its iOS limit and app compatibility becomes a problem, I retire it. I have no use for technology that is unable to perform the required tasks. You, on the other hand, are willing to prematurely allow your device to become obsolete by refusing to update it and are thereafter willing to purchase a completely separate device to carry out the tasks you had for the original device which, had it been updated, would have been perfectly capable of carrying out those tasks!

Look at the mental gymnastics that I have to go through to understand why you do what you do, haha.

And yes, it’s sad to see unique functionality like 3D Touch disappear after iOS 13. I thought it was a nice feature at the time and it would have been great if Apple had kept it going in their later iOS versions.

I agree, my position is quite extreme and statistics show that.

Performance is better but the difference is noticeable, and battery life is poor enough so as to lose its usefulness, at least for me.

Because of what you said about you preferring compatility, statistics show that people are willing to sacrifice performance and battery life to extend compatibility as far as it can go, then they just sell their device and get a new one. I keep devices, I want them to work fine forever.

You summarised it pretty well. While I wouldn't say "an updated device is perfectly capable of performing the tasks", because it isn't perfect, it can perform all of the tasks. My 6s on iOS 10, objectively, cannot.

 

[Andeddu]

I agree, my position is quite extreme and statistics show that.

Performance is better but the difference is noticeable, and battery life is poor enough so as to lose its usefulness, at least for me.

Because of what you said about you preferring compatility, statistics show that people are willing to sacrifice performance and battery life to extend compatibility as far as it can go, then they just sell their device and get a new one. I keep devices, I want them to work fine forever.

You summarised it pretty well. While I wouldn't say "an updated device is perfectly capable of performing the tasks", because it isn't perfect, it can perform all of the tasks. My 6s on iOS 10, objectively, cannot.

I keep my devices, for the most part, too. I won’t, for instance, be selling my 6S, SE and 8 because they are all practically worthless and I would rather keep them as part of a small collection than sell them for a small sum or throw them away.

I place physical condition above performance and battery life. As long as the device is perfect to the eye with no dents or chips, it is worth keeping rather than liquidating. A ‘perfect’ device to me is one that passes the eye test and looks as good as a new one that is fresh out of the box.

Your devices are not ‘perfect’ as they are incompatible with apps and have lost a substantial amount of functionality. True perfection can only be obtained when the device is new, running on its original intended iOS and is fully compatible with the app suite. After that, perfection is unattainable as compromises must be made in one shape or another. True perfection is temporary on all smartphone devices.

I would also personally prefer to have my devices updated even if I had the option to downgrade. Like I mentioned previously, I upgraded my 8 from iOS 13 to 16 for no reason other than I could. I have no intention of using my iPhone 8 again unless something happened to my 13.

 

[FeliApple]

I keep my devices, for the most part, too. I won’t, for instance, be selling my 6S, SE and 8 because they are all practically worthless and I would rather keep them as part of a small collection than sell them for a small sum or throw them away.

I place physical condition above performance and battery life. As long as the device is perfect to the eye with no dents or chips, it is worth keeping rather than liquidating. A ‘perfect’ device to me is one that passes the eye test and looks as good as a new one that is fresh out of the box.

Your devices are not ‘perfect’ as they are incompatible with apps and have lost a substantial amount of functionality. True perfection can only be obtained when the device is new, running on its original intended iOS and is fully compatible with the app suite. After that, perfection is unattainable as compromises must be made in one shape or another. True perfection is temporary on all smartphone devices.

I would also personally prefer to have my devices updated even if I had the option to downgrade. Like I mentioned previously, I upgraded my 8 from iOS 13 to 16 for no reason other than I could. I have no intention of using my iPhone 8 again unless something happened to my 13.

I think that the main difference we have in our view is that you don’t mind if a device has worse battery life and performance as long as it’s compatible, good enough for you, and in a good physical condition. That… makes me the odd one out. Those requirements are the requirements which, like you alluded to, are shared by the vast majority of the population. Which is why people update. I agree in one way: I like perfect physical condition too. I take care of my devices, so if, for instance, a tempered glass on an iPhone breaks, I replace it immediately. Regardless of the extent of the damage. One small chip on the side, which doesn’t affect anything? I replace it immediately. On performance and battery life, correct me if I’m mistaken, but based on what you’ve said, is it true that you don’t mind any decreases incurred by iOS updates as long as they’re good enough for you?

I agree that absolute, theoretical perfection can only be achieved by being on an original iOS version when that version is the latest (I phrased it like that because non-updated devices as long as they’re on a recent enough version do everything I want them to, so they’re perfect in my eyes, but they aren’t theoretically perfect, because they technically cannot do everything they could do). Which is funny. Because of chance and sheer randomness, I’ve purchased my four main devices I alluded to earlier late in their lifecycle, which meant that they lost that perfection in mere days, sometimes immediately:

iPhone 6s and 9.7-inch iPad Pro: bought with iOS 9 when iOS 10 had been out for a couple of days: therefore they weren’t perfect immediately. Apple forced the 9.7-inch iPad Pro out of iOS 9 into iOS 12 mere days before iPadOS 13 was released. It was only fully updated for a couple of days. And it wasn’t perfect there anyway because battery life saw a 25% decrease, and very occasional keyboard lag that wasn’t present on iOS 9 only reinforced that lack of perfection. I will say, however, that barring that very occasional keyboard lag, performance is like-new. Which is why I said that after getting a new iPad, the battery life impact was muffled: I now have an iPad with truly perfect battery life and performance, and I can appreciate the 9.7-inch iPad Pro (my favourite iPad) a little more, whilst being grateful I can have it on iOS 12 instead of iPadOS 16, whose battery life and performance impact, according to what I’ve read, is utterly appalling and unacceptable, at least to me.

iPhone Xʀ and iPad Air 5 on iOS 12 and iPadOS 15, respectively: both purchased, again, mere days before the follow-up versions were released: both were on the latest versions of iOS for mere days, neither was ever updated.

Your decision with the iPhone 8 only reinforces the question I asked earlier: it’s okay if it drops as long as it’s good enough for you, right?

 

[Andeddu]

I think that the main difference we have in our view is that you don’t mind if a device has worse battery life and performance as long as it’s compatible, good enough for you, and in a good physical condition. That… makes me the odd one out. Those requirements are the requirements which, like you alluded to, are shared by the vast majority of the population. Which is why people update. I agree in one way: I like perfect physical condition too. I take care of my devices, so if, for instance, a tempered glass on an iPhone breaks, I replace it immediately. Regardless of the extent of the damage. One small chip on the side, which doesn’t affect anything? I replace it immediately. On performance and battery life, correct me if I’m mistaken, but based on what you’ve said, is it true that you don’t mind any decreases incurred by iOS updates as long as they’re good enough for you?

I agree that absolute, theoretical perfection can only be achieved by being on an original iOS version when that version is the latest (I phrased it like that because non-updated devices as long as they’re on a recent enough version do everything I want them to, so they’re perfect in my eyes, but they aren’t theoretically perfect, because they technically cannot do everything they could do). Which is funny. Because of chance and sheer randomness, I’ve purchased my four main devices I alluded to earlier late in their lifecycle, which meant that they lost that perfection in mere days, sometimes immediately:

iPhone 6s and 9.7-inch iPad Pro: bought with iOS 9 when iOS 10 had been out for a couple of days: therefore they weren’t perfect immediately. Apple forced the 9.7-inch iPad Pro out of iOS 9 into iOS 12 mere days before iPadOS 13 was released. It was only fully updated for a couple of days. And it wasn’t perfect there anyway because battery life saw a 25% decrease, and very occasional keyboard lag that wasn’t present on iOS 9 only reinforced that lack of perfection. I will say, however, that barring that very occasional keyboard lag, performance is like-new. Which is why I said that after getting a new iPad, the battery life impact was muffled: I now have an iPad with truly perfect battery life and performance, and I can appreciate the 9.7-inch iPad Pro (my favourite iPad) a little more, whilst being grateful I can have it on iOS 12 instead of iPadOS 16, whose battery life and performance impact, according to what I’ve read, is utterly appalling and unacceptable, at least to me.

iPhone Xʀ and iPad Air 5 on iOS 12 and iPadOS 15, respectively: both purchased, again, mere days before the follow-up versions were released: both were on the latest versions of iOS for mere days, neither was ever updated.

Your decision with the iPhone 8 only reinforces the question I asked earlier: it’s okay if it drops as long as it’s good enough for you, right?

I guess I am slightly in the minority also as I cannot stand cosmetic imperfections in relation to dents and chips. When I see other people’s phones, they have nasty scratches and scuffs which put me off. Little hairline scratches are tolerable and hard to avoid so they don’t bother me. Only actual visible damage to the cosmetics of the device causes me to bother. That’s why I am a pathological screen protector and case user.

You are correct in your assertion that I don’t mind performance dips as long as they do not render the device a chore to use, such as my iPad Mini on iPadOS 9. That’s why I am so pleased with my SE’s performance on iOS 15. I can have my cake and eat it too because the performance is good (in my opinion) and the entire app suite is compatible. I am using my SE to type this and I am noticing no input lag. I do agree that there is a noticeable performance drop between an A9 on iOS 9 and iOS 15. The experience is not buttery smooth as I recall my 6S being when I first purchased it on iOS 9. I reckon my SE’s performance will be similar to your 6S on iOS 13 as there appears to be little difference between how demanding each version is on the hardware.

I’ll be honest, I never really noticed any battery drop when updating because it appears to be a slow and gradual process. Like most consumers, I accept that my phone will not perform like it did 2-3 years after I purchased it. I told you before that I assumed I would lose 15-20% battery life by upgrading iOS versions. You have corrected me and it appears that the actual number may be closer to 30-40%.

For your note, I have had my SE’s non-OEM battery replaced today at an Apple store with a brand new OEM battery. I am pleased that the device is still cosmetically perfect after handing it over to their Genius team. When they were running diagnostics, the Genius was surprised that it looked brand new with no visible imperfections despite the manufacturing date being June 2016.

I am happy to run some battery tests for you on a 100% new OEM battery on LTE while I still have an active second line.

 

[FeliApple]

I guess I am slightly in the minority also as I cannot stand cosmetic imperfections in relation to dents and chips. When I see other people’s phones, they have nasty scratches and scuffs which put me off. Little hairline scratches are tolerable and hard to avoid so they don’t bother me. Only actual visible damage to the cosmetics of the device causes me to bother. That’s why I am a pathological screen protector and case user.

You are correct in your assertion that I don’t mind performance dips as long as they do not render the device a chore to use, such as my iPad Mini on iPadOS 9. That’s why I am so pleased with my SE’s performance on iOS 15. I can have my cake and eat it too because the performance is good (in my opinion) and the entire app suite is compatible. I am using my SE to type this and I am noticing no input lag. I do agree that there is a noticeable performance drop between an A9 on iOS 9 and iOS 15. The experience is not buttery smooth as I recall my 6S being when I first purchased it on iOS 9. I reckon my SE’s performance will be similar to your 6S on iOS 13 as there appears to be little difference between how demanding each version is on the hardware.

I’ll be honest, I never really noticed any battery drop when updating because it appears to be a slow and gradual process. Like most consumers, I accept that my phone will not perform like it did 2-3 years after I purchased it. I told you before that I assumed I would lose 15-20% battery life by upgrading iOS versions. You have corrected me and it appears that the actual number may be closer to 30-40%.

For your note, I have had my SE’s non-OEM battery replaced today at an Apple store with a brand new OEM battery. I am pleased that the device is still cosmetically perfect after handing it over to their Genius team. When they were running diagnostics, the Genius was surprised that it looked brand new with no visible imperfections despite the manufacturing date being June 2016.

I am happy to run some battery tests for you on a 100% new OEM battery on LTE while I still have an active second line.

View attachment 2150194

Yeah, I can understand the cosmetic requirements, I have them too.

I am confident after reading your replies that there is no reason for you to stay on older versions of iOS: you don’t find the advantages meaningful, therefore, why tolerate the actual tangible drawbacks for essentially nothing? It’s funny. Your situation is exactly mine, but in reverse: I have no reason to update my devices because I don’t mind losing support, and performance and battery life issues would render the device intolerable to me.
Which brings me to something else you said: you are 100% correct in your assessment that the degradation process is constant and gradual. Devices can have sharp decreases (if I am not mistaken, iOS 12 is significantly better than both iOS 13 and iPadOS 13, and many forum members report that iPadOS 13 incurred a heavy performance and battery life penalty on 2GB iPads), but barring specific cases, the overall pattern is clear: the degradation is constant, but not too sharp so as to be able to assert that, for example, iOS 14 is a million times worse on A9 devices than iOS 13, because the truth is… it probably isn’t. It’s my prime theory to explain why people keep updating: if you don’t track it, it is very easy to underestimate differences, especially on battery life. I’ve seen this a million times: it is why I am not surprised that your initial assessment of battery life impact is low: if I didn’t track it, my assessment would be that the impact is more muted than it actually is, too! Like I said, assuming it severely worsened by iOS 13, that’s four years. Too much for people who don’t track it to remember what iOS 9 was like.


My 6s is on iOS 10 with 63% health. Battery life is probably slightly inferior to that on iOS 9 back when I got it. Which brings me to the way I know this: I have hundreds of battery life screenshots back when my other 6s - the one that’s now on iOS 13 - was on iOS 9. I have the numbers right from my first charge cycle. So, we can compare them directly, iOS 9 (original version) vs iOS 15 (final version), both with new batteries. I’m interested in your numbers. It would be interesting for you, if you can, not to mix Wi-Fi and LTE. I track battery life on either full Wi-Fi tests or full LTE tests. It is less variable that way. I can share iOS 9 results with a new battery once you have your results on iOS 15 with a new battery. I reckon the difference will still be on the 30 to 40% range.

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, I can understand the cosmetic requirements, I have them too.

I am confident after reading your replies that there is no reason for you to stay on older versions of iOS: you don’t find the advantages meaningful, therefore, why tolerate the actual tangible drawbacks for essentially nothing? It’s funny. Your situation is exactly mine, but in reverse: I have no reason to update my devices because I don’t mind losing support, and performance and battery life issues would render the device intolerable to me.
Which brings me to something else you said: you are 100% correct in your assessment that the degradation process is constant and gradual. Devices can have sharp decreases (if I am not mistaken, iOS 12 is significantly better than both iOS 13 and iPadOS 13, and many forum members report that iPadOS 13 incurred a heavy performance and battery life penalty on 2GB iPads), but barring specific cases, the overall pattern is clear: the degradation is constant, but not too sharp so as to be able to assert that, for example, iOS 14 is a million times worse on A9 devices than iOS 13, because the truth is… it probably isn’t. It’s my prime theory to explain why people keep updating: if you don’t track it, it is very easy to underestimate differences, especially on battery life. I’ve seen this a million times: it is why I am not surprised that your initial assessment of battery life impact is low: if I didn’t track it, my assessment would be that the impact is more muted than it actually is, too! Like I said, assuming it severely worsened by iOS 13, that’s four years. Too much for people who don’t track it to remember what iOS 9 was like.


My 6s is on iOS 10 with 63% health. Battery life is probably slightly inferior to that on iOS 9 back when I got it. Which brings me to the way I know this: I have hundreds of battery life screenshots back when my other 6s - the one that’s now on iOS 13 - was on iOS 9. I have the numbers right from my first charge cycle. So, we can compare them directly, iOS 9 (original version) vs iOS 15 (final version), both with new batteries. I’m interested in your numbers. It would be interesting for you, if you can, not to mix Wi-Fi and LTE. I track battery life on either full Wi-Fi tests or full LTE tests. It is less variable that way. I can share iOS 9 results with a new battery once you have your results on iOS 15 with a new battery. I reckon the difference will still be on the 30 to 40% range.

You are right as upgrading is like the frog in the boiling pot scenario. I, along with almost everyone else, are ignorant of the level of degradation as it’s so gradual over a long period of time with other factors on show such as battery health. Without tracking the numbers, it’s almost impossible to know what is going on. At least with my 100% new OEM battery, I can give an honest representation of an A9 device on 15.7.2. I will not mix WiFi and LTE as I am aware 4G is a battery killer compared to WiFi. I will carry out my test on full LTE only and will do exactly as before which is mostly video streaming with some light web browsing. You have to remember that video steaming on LTE is a battery killer and will drop battery life faster than normal usage. The 3 hour 40 minute quote I gave before would actually be much longer if I hadn’t tanked the battery via 3 hours of solid media streaming. I am expecting over 4 hours on my new battery and would be satisfied with 4.5 hours. It’s no skin off my teeth either way as the 13 is my daily driver and this SE is just a side device.

At some point this coming week I’ll run LTE only and post my results here as I did before.

 

[FeliApple]

You are right as upgrading is like the frog in the boiling pot scenario. I, along with almost everyone else, are ignorant of the level of degradation as it’s so gradual over a long period of time with other factors on show such as battery health. Without tracking the numbers, it’s almost impossible to know what is going on. At least with my 100% new OEM battery, I can give an honest representation of an A9 device on 15.7.2. I will not mix WiFi and LTE as I am aware 4G is a battery killer compared to WiFi. I will carry out my test on full LTE only and will do exactly as before which is mostly video streaming with some light web browsing. You have to remember that video steaming on LTE is a battery killer and will drop battery life faster than normal usage. The 3 hour 40 minute quote I gave before would actually be much longer if I hadn’t tanked the battery via 3 hours of solid media streaming. I am expecting over 4 hours on my new battery and would be satisfied with 4.5 hours. It’s no skin off my teeth either way as the 13 is my daily driver and this SE is just a side device.

At some point this coming week I’ll run LTE only and post my results here as I did before.

Cool! Looking forward to reading your results!

 

[Andeddu]

Cool! Looking forward to reading your results!

Seems good so far. I watched a 24 minute episode of Vox Machina on Prime using LTE. I normally go from 100% to 87%. With the new battery, I went from 100% to 96%.

The above numbers relate to the SE on release. I am wary of these numbers due to LTE and WiFi providing the same return when we all know better. Video playback is non-streamed video and probably on the lowest volume also which consumes much less battery.

 

[FeliApple]

Seems good so far. I watched a 24 minute episode of Vox Machina on Prime using LTE. I normally go from 100% to 87%. With the new battery, I went from 100% to 96%.

View attachment 2150303

The above numbers relate to the SE on release. I am wary of these numbers due to LTE and WiFi providing the same return when we all know better. Video playback is non-streamed video and probably on the lowest volume also which consumes much less battery.

Apple’s numbers are unreachable. These are their numbers for the 6s:

• Internet use: Up to 10 hours on 3G, up to 10 hours on LTE, up to 11 hours on Wi-Fi (like I said, the 6s is a little worse than the SE. Although sometimes Apple’s specs didn’t translate into the real world, this time they did: iOS 9/10 numbers of the SE are slightly better than the 6s).

My record with the 6s on iOS 9 and a new battery was 10 hours on Wi-Fi... once. I was never able to repeat that result. On LTE, the record is probably 8 hours. I was never anywhere close to 10, with the real world figures being close to 7 hours, maybe a little higher on both counts, but not 10. Definitely not 10, not even close.

24 minutes to 87% sounds pretty poor honestly, to 96% sounds a lot better. That said, I’ve never denied that replacing the battery helped if the device is updated. I’ve only said that it can never reach iOS 9/10 numbers. Looking forward to the end results!

 

[Andeddu]

Apple’s numbers are unreachable. These are their numbers for the 6s:

• Internet use: Up to 10 hours on 3G, up to 10 hours on LTE, up to 11 hours on Wi-Fi (like I said, the 6s is a little worse than the SE. Although sometimes Apple’s specs didn’t translate into the real world, this time they did: iOS 9/10 numbers of the SE are slightly better than the 6s).

My record with the 6s on iOS 9 and a new battery was 10 hours on Wi-Fi... once. I was never able to repeat that result. On LTE, the record is probably 8 hours. I was never anywhere close to 10, with the real world figures being close to 7 hours, maybe a little higher on both counts, but not 10. Definitely not 10, not even close.

24 minutes to 87% sounds pretty poor honestly, to 96% sounds a lot better. That said, I’ve never denied that replacing the battery helped if the device is updated. I’ve only said that it can never reach iOS 9/10 numbers. Looking forward to the end results!

So I charged up my OGSE last night and ran it flat on LTE video streaming on Netflix and YouTube along with 43 minutes of web-browsing and reached 4 hours 53 minutes. This result is better than I thought as video streaming on LTE noticeably killed the battery faster than web-browsing did.

Like I said, even on 15.7.2, close to 5 hours of non-stop streaming on LTE is more battery than most people would require over a day. I even had the volume on via the built in speakers and they were at the second highest setting. If I were to use this phone normally as my daily driver, I would have hours of non-intensive WhatsApp chat and light web-browsing along with 1/3 of the day connected to WiFi. I could easily stretch the battery life to at least 7 hours if I weren’t purposely trying to tank it.

I have personal experience of this phone lasting me the entire day when I first picked it up back in April 2022 and updated it to iOS 15. My average screen on time is around 7 hours and I never felt like the battery was dictating my phone usage or behaviour. I used this thing for 8 months so I know that most people, other than really heavy users or gamers, would get by on this thing. You have to remember that the SE2 has worse battery life and plenty people get by on that.

 

[FeliApple]

View attachment 2152455View attachment 2152453View attachment 2152454

So I charged up my OGSE last night and ran it flat on LTE video streaming on Netflix and YouTube along with 43 minutes of web-browsing and reached 4 hours 53 minutes. This result is better than I thought as video streaming on LTE noticeably killed the battery faster than web-browsing did.

Like I said, even on 15.7.2, close to 5 hours of non-stop streaming on LTE is more battery than most people would require over a day. I even had the volume on via the built in speakers and they were at the second highest setting. If I were to use this phone normally as my daily driver, I would have hours of non-intensive WhatsApp chat and light web-browsing along with 1/3 of the day connected to WiFi. I could easily stretch the battery life to at least 7 hours if I weren’t purposely trying to tank it.

I have personal experience of this phone lasting me the entire day when I first picked it up back in April 2022 and updated it to iOS 15. My average screen on time is around 7 hours and I never felt like the battery was dictating my phone usage or behaviour. I used this thing for 8 months so I know that most people, other than really heavy users or gamers, would get by on this thing. You have to remember that the SE2 has worse battery life and plenty people get by on that.

I did not deny that your first result was better than I expected, I won’t deny it now. Yes, that battery life is probably good enough for a moderate user. 5 hours of LTE with a new battery sounds perfectly usable.

I ran a partial streaming test on Wi-Fi to my 6s on iOS 10 and it matches regular web browsing, standing at close to 2 hours on 80% (1h 50 min). That matches my iPads: I have seen no significant difference in battery consumption between streaming and web browsing, although it might be slightly worse while streaming.

I found an LTE screenshot of my 6s on iOS 9 when it was a couple of months old and it stands at 7 hours 28 minutes with 5% remaining: social media, web browsing, texting was its usage, according to the screenshot. So, 8 hours. I did say my current 6s had a negligible drop (probably due to battery health and probably due to the same factors which made my 9.7-inch iPad Pro’s battery life see a 30-45 min drop when it dropped to 85% health), and after running many tests, I doubt my current 6s on iOS 10 would be there: it’s probably at 6.5-7 hours, give or take some minutes, like I said (again, it has 63% health). Then again, other screenshots show that 6s at 7 hours with 3% left, so we can say it’s around 7.5 hours. A half an hour drop, perhaps a bit more. Not bad for a 6.5-year-old battery running iOS 10 instead of iOS 9 (I cannot ascertain a difference, if any, between iOS 9 and iOS 10. I don’t have the conditions to compare them and I never had them, unfortunately). Also, like I said, the SE was better than the 6s, by about an hour on iOS 9.

Which brings us back to our original conclusion: Even factoring that the SE is better than the 6s, we still hover around the same overall range: around a 40% drop. Which confirms that both of our initial assessments are wrong: you underestimated iOS updates’ impact, at 20%, and I overestimated it: it is simply better than the 2.5 hours I had assessed. That would imply a 67% drop with a new battery, and it is better than that.

Thanks for running the tests and sharing the results with me!

There is something I don’t understand though: My 9.7-inch iPad Pro was forcibly updated to iOS 12 from iOS 9. It immediately saw a 3.5-hour drop from 14 hours to 10.5 hours, so, a 25% drop. My question is… if an iPhone with a smaller battery drops 40% from iOS 9 to iOS 15 (three more major updates, which is a LOT), why is iOS 12’s impact on my iPad so high? Occasionally it even strains to get to those 10.5 hours, so it might even be a little more than 25%, maybe 30%. Why? It should be far better than that, going by your iPhone results. I have tried everything. I‘ve tweaked every setting I could think of. It won’t get better than that. I can’t try restoring because thanks to Apple’s pathetic policy it would update it… so I can’t try much, but why is it so poor when compared to A9 iPhones three iOS versions ahead? The A9X is even more powerful, so the processor shouldn’t be as strained. So it should be even better. I am stumped.

 

[Andeddu]

I did not deny that your first result was better than I expected, I won’t deny it now. Yes, that battery life is probably good enough for a moderate user. 5 hours of LTE with a new battery sounds perfectly usable.

I ran a partial streaming test on Wi-Fi to my 6s on iOS 10 and it matches regular web browsing, standing at close to 2 hours on 80% (1h 50 min). That matches my iPads: I have seen no significant difference in battery consumption between streaming and web browsing, although it might be slightly worse while streaming.

I found an LTE screenshot of my 6s on iOS 9 when it was a couple of months old and it stands at 7 hours 28 minutes with 5% remaining: social media, web browsing, texting was its usage, according to the screenshot. So, 8 hours. I did say my current 6s had a negligible drop (probably due to battery health and probably due to the same factors which made my 9.7-inch iPad Pro’s battery life see a 30-45 min drop when it dropped to 85% health), and after running many tests, I doubt my current 6s on iOS 10 would be there: it’s probably at 6.5-7 hours, give or take some minutes, like I said (again, it has 63% health). Then again, other screenshots show that 6s at 7 hours with 3% left, so we can say it’s around 7.5 hours. A half an hour drop, perhaps a bit more. Not bad for a 6.5-year-old battery running iOS 10 instead of iOS 9 (I cannot ascertain a difference, if any, between iOS 9 and iOS 10. I don’t have the conditions to compare them and I never had them, unfortunately). Also, like I said, the SE was better than the 6s, by about an hour on iOS 9.

Which brings us back to our original conclusion: Even factoring that the SE is better than the 6s, we still hover around the same overall range: around a 40% drop. Which confirms that both of our initial assessments are wrong: you underestimated iOS updates’ impact, at 20%, and I overestimated it: it is simply better than the 2.5 hours I had assessed. That would imply a 67% drop with a new battery, and it is better than that.

Thanks for running the tests and sharing the results with me!

There is something I don’t understand though: My 9.7-inch iPad Pro was forcibly updated to iOS 12 from iOS 9. It immediately saw a 3.5-hour drop from 14 hours to 10.5 hours, so, a 25% drop. My question is… if an iPhone with a smaller battery drops 40% from iOS 9 to iOS 15 (three more major updates, which is a LOT), why is iOS 12’s impact on my iPad so high? Occasionally it even strains to get to those 10.5 hours, so it might even be a little more than 25%, maybe 30%. Why? It should be far better than that, going by your iPhone results. I have tried everything. I‘ve tweaked every setting I could think of. It won’t get better than that. I can’t try restoring because thanks to Apple’s pathetic policy it would update it… so I can’t try much, but why is it so poor when compared to A9 iPhones three iOS versions ahead? The A9X is even more powerful, so the processor shouldn’t be as strained. So it should be even better. I am stumped.

Very interesting. Yes, we were both mistaken in our initial beliefs. I am just glad that I was able to show that the SE, with a new battery, on iOS 15 is a usable phone in 2023 with a suitable battery life and performance for non-power users.

I personally do not understand why battery health does not affect your 6S in the way it affects other users. I gained an entire hour of LTE by replacing my battery from 89% to 100% which means you’d supposedly obtain the same relative increase were you to replace your battery. I suspect you have a top 0.1% battery which has aged far better than the rest.

I don’t know why your iPad Pro was hit so hard. I suppose iOS 12 and iOS 15 are similarly demanding on the hardware. I have heard other people speak about the A9 becoming noticeably slower on versions iOS 12 and after. I don’t believe you’d see a massive performance and battery hit if you were to upgrade your iPadOS to 15. It’s a shame you are unable to downgrade to iPadOS 11 because I think you would see a proportionally smaller battery drop than on iPadOS 12.

 

[FeliApple]

Very interesting. Yes, we were both mistaken in our initial beliefs. I am just glad that I was able to show that the SE, with a new battery, on iOS 15 is a usable phone in 2023 with a suitable battery life and performance for non-power users.

I personally do not understand why battery health does not affect your 6S in the way it affects other users. I gained an entire hour of LTE by replacing my battery from 89% to 100% which means you’d supposedly obtain the same relative increase were you to replace your battery. I suspect you have a top 0.1% battery which has aged far better than the rest.

I don’t know why your iPad Pro was hit so hard. I suppose iOS 12 and iOS 15 are similarly demanding on the hardware. I have heard other people speak about the A9 becoming noticeably slower on versions iOS 12 and after. I don’t believe you’d see a massive performance and battery hit if you were to upgrade your iPadOS to 15. It’s a shame you are unable to downgrade to iPadOS 11 because I think you would see a proportionally smaller battery drop than on iPadOS 12.

Yeah, it’s significantly worse, but it remains usable for light users. The difference only becomes crucial when a user would otherwise strain a 6s on iOS 9 or 10: a user on iOS 15 wouldn’t be able to get to the end of the day. I’ve only had those days occasionally. For a moderately heavy user, a 6s on iOS 10 would be severely strained, and one on iOS 15 would be useless, but the device’s battery life was never intended for power users, anyway. You can see some of those users struggling on the original iPhone 6s battery life thread even on iOS 9. Many chose the 6s Plus instead.

I’ve seen some abhorrent 6s Plus results on iOS 15, but I don’t quite know what to believe anymore. Some users reported 5 hours after replaced batteries, but going by your results, that kind of seems way too low: it would mean that the drop is nearly 60%. Regardless, the impact on heavy users is probably far higher: the more you strain the processor, the more iOS updates matter: because they already strain the processor by themselves, so it is possible I guess that there is a 50% reduction or even more for heavy users.

I would even go as far as to argue that regardless of whether the Plus got the short end of the stick, the battery life impact on Plus models is more impactful: even if it is the same in terms of percentage, as battery life is better, it lost more hours of screen-on time: a similar issue to that of my iPad. Which would render a plus useless. Why carry a larger device when battery life will only be slightly better anyway? Heavy users can be seen on the thread, repeatedly putting 8 hours of SOT or more, with some battery leftover (many hover around the 11 to 12-hour range, and that’s what I saw when I used my 7 Plus on iOS 10) a 6s Plus on iOS 15 can’t get to that number, so it would punish usability whilst boosting its main disadvantage: portability. Why carry a Plus if I’m going to need a charger anyway?

As to why it doesn’t impact me, I guess it is exclusively due to iOS 10’s efficiency. iOS 10 doesn’t strain the processor, so it can cope with a reduced battery capacity far better than iOS 15 can. Which is why you don’t see that similar relative increase you mentioned: iOS 10’s requirements simply aren’t enough so as to feel the impact of the battery’s degradation.

That’s the issue with the iPad: performance on iOS 12 is fine, and many users of 9.7-inch iPads with 2GB of RAM have stated that performance only saw a significant drop starting when the iPad’s software changed to iPadOS (it is only called like that starting with iPadOS 13, when iOS and iPadOS were separate. In other words: the iPad’s iOS 12 = the iPhone’s iOS 12; iPadOS 13 != iOS 13). Which means that performance-wise, iOS 12 is far better than iPadOS 13 onwards.

So, if performance is fine, why isn’t battery life? And if battery life isn’t fine because iOS 12 strains it, why can’t I notice a performance difference when compared to iOS 9? Performance is way too good on iOS 12 relative to iOS 9 for battery life to be this poor on iOS 12, again, relative to iOS 9. Frankly, I’d love to have it on iOS 10 like my 6s.

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, it’s significantly worse, but it remains usable for light users. The difference only becomes crucial when a user would otherwise strain a 6s on iOS 9 or 10: a user on iOS 15 wouldn’t be able to get to the end of the day. I’ve only had those days occasionally. For a moderately heavy user, a 6s on iOS 10 would be severely strained, and one on iOS 15 would be useless, but the device’s battery life was never intended for power users, anyway. You can see some of those users struggling on the original iPhone 6s battery life thread even on iOS 9. Many chose the 6s Plus instead.

I’ve seen some abhorrent 6s Plus results on iOS 15, but I don’t quite know what to believe anymore. Some users reported 5 hours after replaced batteries, but going by your results, that kind of seems way too low: it would mean that the drop is nearly 60%. Regardless, the impact on heavy users is probably far higher: the more you strain the processor, the more iOS updates matter: because they already strain the processor by themselves, so it is possible I guess that there is a 50% reduction or even more for heavy users.

I would even go as far as to argue that regardless of whether the Plus got the short end of the stick, the battery life impact on Plus models is more impactful: even if it is the same in terms of percentage, as battery life is better, it lost more hours of screen-on time: a similar issue to that of my iPad. Which would render a plus useless. Why carry a larger device when battery life will only be slightly better anyway? Heavy users can be seen on the thread, repeatedly putting 8 hours of SOT or more, with some battery leftover (many hover around the 11 to 12-hour range, and that’s what I saw when I used my 7 Plus on iOS 10) a 6s Plus on iOS 15 can’t get to that number, so it would punish usability whilst boosting its main disadvantage: portability. Why carry a Plus if I’m going to need a charger anyway?

As to why it doesn’t impact me, I guess it is exclusively due to iOS 10’s efficiency. iOS 10 doesn’t strain the processor, so it can cope with a reduced battery capacity far better than iOS 15 can. Which is why you don’t see that similar relative increase you mentioned: iOS 10’s requirements simply aren’t enough so as to feel the impact of the battery’s degradation.

That’s the issue with the iPad: performance on iOS 12 is fine, and many users of 9.7-inch iPads with 2GB of RAM have stated that performance only saw a significant drop starting when the iPad’s software changed to iPadOS (it is only called like that starting with iPadOS 13, when iOS and iPadOS were separate. In other words: the iPad’s iOS 12 = the iPhone’s iOS 12; iPadOS 13 != iOS 13). Which means that performance-wise, iOS 12 is far better than iPadOS 13 onwards.

So, if performance is fine, why isn’t battery life? And if battery life isn’t fine because iOS 12 strains it, why can’t I notice a performance difference when compared to iOS 9? Performance is way too good on iOS 12 relative to iOS 9 for battery life to be this poor on iOS 12, again, relative to iOS 9. Frankly, I’d love to have it on iOS 10 like my 6s.

Yes, my point is that the average person in USA/Europe requires around 5-6 hours of SoT and the iPhone SE on iOS 15 provides around 7 hours of SoT when the battery is not purposely tanked. Furthermore, anyone who uses an SE is unlikely going to spend too much time streaming apps due to the small screen which means the device is perfectly suitable as a daily driver. I consume a lot of streaming media on numerous apps but normally only consumed around an hour per day on the SE when I used it as my main phone. The 13 I have now is a far superior experience due to its size and QoL upgrades. The SE or 6S are obviously unsuitable for power users who are likely going to opt for the Plus or Max versions of iPhones.

I would be surprised if users were only getting 5 hours of LTE on the 6S Plus with a new battery. I doubt they were constantly streaming media on the second highest volume setting like I did too. Perhaps they were using non-OEM batteries which are known to very wildly in quality.

At the end of the day, I don’t think it’s a big issue that phones provide much less battery life on the latest iOS version as I almost never see an A9 phone out in the wild anymore. The lowest model of iPhone I commonly see is the 11. I can’t remember the last time I saw someone use a 6S or an OGSE. When I used my OGSE last year, people were asking my why I was using such an old device because it stuck out like a sore thumb.

That’s a strange issue you have on your iPad Pro. I can’t recall how A9 chips perform on iOS 12 but if it’s as good a performance as on iOS 9 or 10 then I see no reason for the additional battery drain. I highly doubt Apple have purposely built in a -25% battery life penalty with iOS 12. I suppose it’s unexplained but there must be a valid reason for it.

 

[FeliApple]

Yes, my point is that the average person in USA/Europe requires around 5-6 hours of SoT and the iPhone SE on iOS 15 provides around 7 hours of SoT when the battery is not purposely tanked. Furthermore, anyone who uses an SE is unlikely going to spend too much time streaming apps due to the small screen which means the device is perfectly suitable as a daily driver. I consume a lot of streaming media on numerous apps but normally only consumed around an hour per day on the SE when I used it as my main phone. The 13 I have now is a far superior experience due to its size and QoL upgrades. The SE or 6S are obviously unsuitable for power users who are likely going to opt for the Plus or Max versions of iPhones.

I would be surprised if users were only getting 5 hours of LTE on the 6S Plus with a new battery. I doubt they were constantly streaming media on the second highest volume setting like I did too. Perhaps they were using non-OEM batteries which are known to very wildly in quality.

At the end of the day, I don’t think it’s a big issue that phones provide much less battery life on the latest iOS version as I almost never see an A9 phone out in the wild anymore. The lowest model of iPhone I commonly see is the 11. I can’t remember the last time I saw someone use a 6S or an OGSE. When I used my OGSE last year, people were asking my why I was using such an old device because it stuck out like a sore thumb.

That’s a strange issue you have on your iPad Pro. I can’t recall how A9 chips perform on iOS 12 but if it’s as good a performance as on iOS 9 or 10 then I see no reason for the additional battery drain. I highly doubt Apple have purposely built in a -25% battery life penalty with iOS 12. I suppose it’s unexplained but there must be a valid reason for it.

Yeah, it would be good enough for a light to moderate user, as long as the battery is new. If the battery is old, only one on iOS 10 would be useful. Many have upgraded their devices because of that: if the device is updated, the battery tanks as it degrades, and it isn’t useful anymore. They get tired of replacing batteries. 40% below iOS 9 or 10 is certainly usable, like we’ve stated. But that number is only achievable if the battery is new. Many people have replaced the battery on the iPhone 6s 5 times before upgrading.

Yeah, that’s why I was surprised by your number: every other number I’ve seen, replaced battery or not, is lower than yours on A9 devices on iOS 15. Like I said, I’ve repeatedly seen the 2.5 to 3-hour number being quoted. You are the first person ever to reliably report 5 hours. Which might be 40% below iOS 9, but it isn’t unusable. A plus model if the number is 40% might be at 6-7 hours of LTE with a new battery. Which yes, might be possible. Wouldn’t be too bad. Although like I said, subjectively, it would lose its usefulness: why carry a Plus around for 6-7 hours? Battery life is its main advantage and iOS 15 took it away.

I do reckon an A9 device with 63% health like mine is unusable on iOS 15, even based on your numbers: if you saw a full hour increase from 89% to 100%, especially considering that 89% should be near perfect, 63% would render a device unusable, again, likely due to increased power requirements.

The devices probably remain in use as second phones in the majority of cases (note: this is a full-on conjecture, I have absolutely no data to back this up), likely because of what I stated earlier, and because of what prompted this discussion: Android is far more fragmented; therefore, app support is better, at least in a couple of apps I’ve seen (WhatsApp supports the 2012 release, and on iOS, it supports iOS 12, the 2018 release. Pathetic if you ask me: a non-updated iPhone 8 and X can’t use it? Abhorrent). Performance and battery life suffer enough for people to consider upgrading, so they upgrade. This is all in the US. iPhones are far more expensive on other countries so they use older devices but that’s not a topic I want to get into; I digress.

I’ve seen many, on iPads too, that when the device loses support they upgrade... and that leaves a whole lot of phones behind: only the iPhone 8 onwards receive support. Therefore, older iPhones are probably kept as backup, maybe because of what you stated once: they aren’t worth enough on the used market to sell them. For secondary devices, battery life loses relevance: this brings me back to what I stated about my iPad: its battery life obliteration on iOS 12 lost importance when I got the Air 5. Yeah, I can’t explain it either.

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, it would be good enough for a light to moderate user, as long as the battery is new. If the battery is old, only one on iOS 10 would be useful. Many have upgraded their devices because of that: if the device is updated, the battery tanks as it degrades, and it isn’t useful anymore. They get tired of replacing batteries. 40% below iOS 9 or 10 is certainly usable, like we’ve stated. But that number is only achievable if the battery is new. Many people have replaced the battery on the iPhone 6s 5 times before upgrading.

Yeah, that’s why I was surprised by your number: every other number I’ve seen, replaced battery or not, is lower than yours on A9 devices on iOS 15. Like I said, I’ve repeatedly seen the 2.5 to 3-hour number being quoted. You are the first person ever to reliably report 5 hours. Which might be 40% below iOS 9, but it isn’t unusable. A plus model if the number is 40% might be at 6-7 hours of LTE with a new battery. Which yes, might be possible. Wouldn’t be too bad. Although like I said, subjectively, it would lose its usefulness: why carry a Plus around for 6-7 hours? Battery life is its main advantage and iOS 15 took it away.

I do reckon an A9 device with 63% health like mine is unusable on iOS 15, even based on your numbers: if you saw a full hour increase from 89% to 100%, especially considering that 89% should be near perfect, 63% would render a device unusable, again, likely due to increased power requirements.

The devices probably remain in use as second phones in the majority of cases (note: this is a full-on conjecture, I have absolutely no data to back this up), likely because of what I stated earlier, and because of what prompted this discussion: Android is far more fragmented; therefore, app support is better, at least in a couple of apps I’ve seen (WhatsApp supports the 2012 release, and on iOS, it supports iOS 12, the 2018 release. Pathetic if you ask me: a non-updated iPhone 8 and X can’t use it? Abhorrent). Performance and battery life suffer enough for people to consider upgrading, so they upgrade. This is all in the US. iPhones are far more expensive on other countries so they use older devices but that’s not a topic I want to get into; I digress.

I’ve seen many, on iPads too, that when the device loses support they upgrade... and that leaves a whole lot of phones behind: only the iPhone 8 onwards receive support. Therefore, older iPhones are probably kept as backup, maybe because of what you stated once: they aren’t worth enough on the used market to sell them. For secondary devices, battery life loses relevance: this brings me back to what I stated about my iPad: its battery life obliteration on iOS 12 lost importance when I got the Air 5. Yeah, I can’t explain it either.

Well it’ll soon be out of the question for A9 phone users to have their batteries officially changed by Apple. They’ve already discontinued providing battery replacements on the iPhone 6 so this could be the final year of the service for A9 phones.

I find it hard to believe anyone could hit 2.5-3 hours LTE usage on a new battery when my SE on an OEM battery does close to double that. I guess the 6S might reach 4 hours on LTE video streaming with a new OEM battery which, although not great, would be usable for a fairly large segment of the population.

I agree that your 6S on 63% battery health would be useless on iOS 15. My 6S was posting 2 hours of WiFi video streaming on an 82% OEM battery. The battery was so depleted that the phone was rendered pretty much unusable.

I agree with your take on app support however the culture of Apple users is that we continually upgrade our devices which is why support tends to be fleeting for any specific iOS version. The defence of app makers is that they are providing 9-10 years of support for any specific iPhone model. The caveat is that the user must upgrade to the latest iOS version.

This is a mostly a non-issue in the West where we all generally have at least an iPhone 11 or better as a main device. Ancient A9 iPhones are pretty much redundant now barring a small number of small form factor enthusiasts who swear by the SE. The sad fact is that once people move on from a device, the manufacturer stops giving a damn about it. That’s why the iOS 9 bug was never fixed… not enough people care to warrant the cost of releasing a patch.

 

[FeliApple]

Well it’ll soon be out of the question for A9 phone users to have their batteries officially changed by Apple. They’ve already discontinued providing battery replacements on the iPhone 6 so this could be the final year of the service for A9 phones.

I find it hard to believe anyone could hit 2.5-3 hours LTE usage on a new battery when my SE on an OEM battery does close to double that. I guess the 6S might reach 4 hours on LTE video streaming with a new OEM battery which, although not great, would be usable for a fairly large segment of the population.

I agree that your 6S on 63% battery health would be useless on iOS 15. My 6S was posting 2 hours of WiFi video streaming on an 82% OEM battery. The battery was so depleted that the phone was rendered pretty much unusable.

I agree with your take on app support however the culture of Apple users is that we continually upgrade our devices which is why support tends to be fleeting for any specific iOS version. The defence of app makers is that they are providing 9-10 years of support for any specific iPhone model. The caveat is that the user must upgrade to the latest iOS version.

This is a mostly a non-issue in the West where we all generally have at least an iPhone 11 or better as a main device. Ancient A9 iPhones are pretty much redundant now barring a small number of small form factor enthusiasts who swear by the SE. The sad fact is that once people move on from a device, the manufacturer stops giving a damn about it. That’s why the iOS 9 bug was never fixed… not enough people care to warrant the cost of releasing a patch.

Yeah, there comes a point in which they practically force you to upgrade, which is quite sad. People have no choice, it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation:

If Apple stops providing battery replacements and you don’t want to do it elsewhere, then if you update the phone is useless. Like you said, the iPhone 6s is unusable if updated with 82% health (which again, if updated it doesn’t even take too long to degrade a battery if the user is a heavy user), and if you don’t update battery health loses relevance... but you cannot do anything with the device, so you have to upgrade anyway. I wouldn’t be able to use my 6s on iOS 10 as my only phone because I don’t have the app support, and I’m not even a heavy user. I probably would if I could, it’s my favourite phone ever, like I said. But the conclusion of this segment is basically that even if you go for maximum performance and battery life longevity, support doesn’t let you use the device, and if you go for full compatibility, performance and battery life don’t let you use the device to its full potential. Like I said, it’s doomed either way, unfortunately. If you get 2 hours on iOS 15 with 82% health, I’d get... nothing. What, half an hour? A long shot from the 6.5-7 hours I’m getting now, probably the best example of “destroying a device into uselessness”. App support wouldn’t really matter because the device probably wouldn’t even stay on for me to use the apps.

Maybe the 2.5 to 3-hour estimate was too low, but like you said, a 6s maybe gets 4 hours, if that, with a new battery on iOS 15. As soon as it degrades (it won’t take long on iOS 15, like I said), it drops into uselessness, like you experienced, and replacing a battery every 5 minutes isn’t really feasible. A9 iPhones are almost obsolete as main devices, unfortunately, unless... you cope, honestly. Either the user’s requirements are so basic that they can make it work on iOS 10 (like me, at least as a second phone), in order to maintain a perfectly usable device, or they are forced to update, and its drawbacks will eventually force the person out regardless of their patience (like I said, it gets tiring to replace a battery a year, I’ve seen many users mention this).

The app support issue you mention is abhorrent, and the trend does not favour me, unfortunately. As devices’ iOS support longevity increase, the faster they drop support for older iOS versions, and that means that my own devices’ perfect longevity decreases. Which only leaves me with one choice (this is insane and I will never get tired of saying it): I fear I will eventually have to literally buy a sacrificial lamb: I’d have to buy a new iPhone (say, the SE 3), and update it as far as it goes in order to maintain the required compatibility. And I do not want to do that. My iPhone XR on iOS 12 works just fine, thank you. An example of this? Again, WhatsApp: WhatsApp dropped iOS 10 support last year... at the exact same moment, they dropped iOS 11 support. Together. Why? Because there’s no iPhone whose latest version is iOS 11. The iPhone 5 and 5c are stuck on iOS 10, and the iPhone 5s alongside the iPhone 6 both support iOS 12. It’s like just because no iPhone has iOS 11 as its latest version, then that version doesn’t matter. My message to WhatsApp is... you know there are people who don’t update, right? Unfortunately, and unlike Android’s fragmentation, there are so few of us that we don’t matter. Apple keeps bragging about hitting record iOS adoption rates, and unfortunately for me, the more people update, the more compatibility I lose.

This goes right into what you mention about the A9 on iOS 9 activation bug: why isn’t it solved? Because how many people care about it? Not enough. Many who do updated anyway (me), and the rest don’t make enough noise for Apple to fix it. Apple wants people to update (which is why they don’t allow downgrading), so in their view they think: “A9 users cannot run iOS 9 and they have to update unless jailbroken? Cool! Higher adoption rates!” They drool so much at their pathetic adoption rates graph that it’s the first thing they mention, every year, at every single WWDC. As my language implies... I’m not too happy with that.

Also, what you said is very important: people in first-world countries upgrade frequently... so they don’t care either. It’s like you said with the iPhone 11. And yeah, 4-inch iPhone fans use the SE, which works (kind of, and for now) on iOS 15. It won’t go much longer, and like me, they’ll be forced out. Which is a shame, if they like the device and Apple offers no alternative (which they don’t), who am I to say that their phone is too old? Yes, it’s not the latest, but... they like it? And that’s okay! Who am I to say they can’t use it anymore? To go even further: I like the SE 1st gen! I’d get one for myself honestly, I have a 5c and its portability and comfort is second-to-none, and: it is running iOS 10, which means it’s horribly slow, and it has 8GB of storage. But I like it.

About the A9 activation bug, one more thing:

Funnily enough, I am now using an iPad 6th-gen on the version it came with: iOS 12. Battery life matches my 9.7-inch iPad Pro, which means that one is fine? Well, no. It matches its battery life on iOS 9. I reckon it’ll end up giving me the 14 hours I got on iOS 9 (the 9.7-inch iPad Pro currently scrapes 10-11 hours, oftentimes even less).

That’s a good efficiency example: The 6th-gen iPad’s battery is larger (significantly larger, at 8827 mAh vs my 9.7-inch iPad Pro’s 7306 mAh), but iOS 9 is efficient enough alongside the A9X to match it. Of course, both on iOS 12, the 9.7-inch iPad Pro loses awfully, the battery size is too small to combat iOS 12’s abhorrent efficiency with an A9-based processor (in this case, the A9X).

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, there comes a point in which they practically force you to upgrade, which is quite sad. People have no house, it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation:

If Apple stops providing battery replacements and you don’t want to do it elsewhere, then if you update the phone is useless. Like you said, the iPhone 6s is unusable if updated with 82% health (which again, if updated it doesn’t even take too long to degrade a battery if the user is a heavy user), and if you don’t update battery health loses relevance... but you cannot do anything with the device, so you have to upgrade anyway. I wouldn’t be able to use my 6s on iOS 10 as my only phone because I don’t have the app support, and I’m not even a heavy user. I probably would if I could, it’s my favourite phone ever, like I said. But the conclusion of this segment is basically that even if you go for maximum performance and battery life longevity, support doesn’t let you use the device, and if you go for full compatibility, performance and battery life don’t let you use the device to its full potential. Like I said, it’s doomed either way, unfortunately. If you get 2 hours on iOS 15 with 82% health, I’d get... nothing. What, half an hour? A long shot from the 6.5-7 hours I’m getting now, probably the best example of “destroying a device into uselessness”. App support wouldn’t really matter because the device probably wouldn’t even stay on for me to use the apps.

Maybe the 2.5 to 3-hour estimate was too low, but like you said, a 6s maybe gets 4 hours, if that, with a new battery on iOS 15. As soon as it degrades (it won’t take long on iOS 15, like I said), it drops into uselessness, like you experienced, and replacing a battery every 5 minutes isn’t really feasible. A9 iPhones are almost obsolete as main devices, unfortunately, unless... you cope, honestly. Either the user’s requirements are so basic that they can make it work on iOS 10 (like me, at least as a second phone), in order to maintain a perfectly usable device, or they are forced to update, and its drawbacks will eventually force the person out regardless of their patience (like I said, it gets tiring to replace a battery a year, I’ve seen many users mention this).

The app support issue you mention is abhorrent, and the trend does not favour me, unfortunately. As devices’ iOS support longevity increase, the faster they drop support for older iOS versions, and that means that my own devices’ perfect longevity decreases. Which only leaves me with one choice (this is insane and I will never get tired of saying it): I fear I will eventually have to literally buy a sacrificial lamb: I’d have to buy a new iPhone (say, the SE 3), and update it as far as it goes in order to maintain the required compatibility. And I do not want to do that. My iPhone XR on iOS 12 works just fine, thank you. An example of this? Again, WhatsApp: WhatsApp dropped iOS 10 support last year... at the exact same moment, they dropped iOS 11 support. Together. Why? Because there’s no iPhone whose latest version is iOS 11. The iPhone 5 and 5c are stuck on iOS 10, and the iPhone 5s alongside the iPhone 6 both support iOS 12. It’s like just because no iPhone has iOS 11 as its latest version, then that version doesn’t matter. My message to WhatsApp is... you know there are people who don’t update, right? Unfortunately, and unlike Android’s fragmentation, there are so few of us that we don’t matter. Apple keeps bragging about hitting record iOS adoption rates, and unfortunately for me, the more people update, the more compatibility I lose.

This goes right into what you mention about the A9 on iOS 9 activation bug you mention: why isn’t it solved? Because how many people care about it? Not enough. Many who do updated anyway (me), and the rest don’t make enough noise for Apple to fix it. Apple wants people to update (which is why they don’t allow downgrading), so in their view they think: “A9 users cannot run iOS 9 and they have to update unless jailbroken? Cool! Higher adoption rates!” They drool so much at their pathetic adoption rates graph that it’s the first thing they mention, every year, at every single WWDC. As my language implies... I’m not too happy with that.

Also, what you said is very important: people in first-world countries upgrade frequently... so they don’t care either. It’s like you said with the iPhone 11. And yeah, 4-inch iPhone fans use the SE, which works (kind of, and for now) on iOS 15. It won’t go much longer, and like me, they’ll be forced out. Which is a shame, if they like the device and Apple offers no alternative (which they don’t), who am I to say that their phone is too old? Yes, it’s not the latest, but... they like it? And that’s okay! Who am I to say they can’t use it anymore? To go even further: I like the SE 1st gen! I’d get one for myself honestly, I have a 5c and its portability and comfort is second-to-none, and: it is running iOS 10, which means it’s horribly slow, and it has 8GB of storage. But I like it.

About the A9 activation bug, one more thing:

Funnily enough, I am now using an iPad 6th-gen on the version it came with: iOS 12. Battery life matches my 9.7-inch iPad Pro, which means that one is fine? Well, no. It matches its battery life on iOS 9. I reckon it’ll end up giving me the 14 hours I got on iOS 9 (the 9.7-inch iPad Pro currently scrapes 10-11 hours, oftentimes even less).

That’s a good efficiency example: The 6th-gen iPad’s battery is larger (significantly larger, at 8827 mAh vs my 9.7-inch iPad Pro’s 7306 mAh), but iOS 9 is efficient enough alongside the A9X to match it. Of course, both on iOS 12, the 9.7-inch iPad Pro loses awfully, the battery size is too small to combat iOS 12’s abhorrent efficiency with an A9-based processor (in this case, the A9X).

I can see the argument for both sides though as phones absolutely are consumable items which are designed to be replaced. You aren’t supposed to have the same phone for over 6 years. I don’t know anyone in my personal or work life who keeps the same phone for over 3 years. Older phones, such as 3 year old ones, are so cheap now in the refurbished or used market that there is no excuse to get caught out and placed into a position where you are unable to gain access to an app because you are using an unsupported version of iOS.

I like to collect older phones and other devices and so do you. That automatically places us into a very niche category as it is not normal to keep retired consumable devices. I now have numerous older phones, the newest of which being an iPhone 8. If my 6S battery becomes flat and the device is useless on iOS 15, I can easily use my iPhone 8 as a backup. When my iPhone 8 suffers the same fate as my 6S, my iPhone 13 will likely become the backup.

There is really no reason to maintain speed/functionality on a device forever. Why would Apple spend any energy trying to support the 0.001% of the population too stubborn to update to a relevant version of iOS? I am happy with the way things are done right now. If I were still using my SE, which is officially unsupported in 2023, I can continue to do so as apps will be functional for the next 2 or so years. After that then I simply MUST upgrade because Apple, along with app developers, are not obliged to keep very old devices viable if there is no financial gain in it. In fact, keeping such devices as the 5S, 6, 6S and SE relevant in 2023 would result in a guaranteed financial loss. The line has to be drawn somewhere especially given that we operate under the consumer based economic model where the economy is reliant on the public continually upgrading their technology year after year. This is different from, let’s say, the 60s-70s where a TV would last 15-20 years, kitchen appliances 20+ years and cars 15-20 years.

The only minor problem I have with this is the fact that they’re killing off a unique form factor in the original SE. I couldn’t care less about the 6, 6S and 8 because the form factor is still relevant today with the SE2/SE3. The SE1 is still the most powerful small phone in 2023 and we will never see anything like it again. I had the 12 Mini and it dwarfed the SE. It’s only considered small now because phones are so big!

 

[FeliApple]

I can see the argument for both sides though as phones absolutely are consumable items which are designed to be replaced. You aren’t supposed to have the same phone for over 6 years. I don’t know anyone in my personal or work life who keeps the same phone for over 3 years. Older phones, such as 3 year old ones, are so cheap now in the refurbished or used market that there is no excuse to get caught out and placed into a position where you are unable to gain access to an app because you are using an unsupported version of iOS.

I like to collect older phones and other devices and so do you. That automatically places us into a very niche category as it is not normal to keep retired consumable devices. I now have numerous older phones, the newest of which being an iPhone 8. If my 6S battery becomes flat and the device is useless on iOS 15, I can easily use my iPhone 8 as a backup. When my iPhone 8 suffers the same fate as my 6S, my iPhone 13 will likely become the backup.

There is really no reason to maintain speed/functionality on a device forever. Why would Apple spend any energy trying to support the 0.001% of the population too stubborn to update to a relevant version of iOS? I am happy with the way things are done right now. If I were still using my SE, which is officially unsupported in 2023, I can continue to do so as apps will be functional for the next 2 or so years. After that then I simply MUST upgrade because Apple, along with app developers, are not obliged to keep very old devices viable if there is no financial gain in it. In fact, keeping such devices as the 5S, 6, 6S and SE relevant in 2023 would result in a guaranteed financial loss. The line has to be drawn somewhere especially given that we operate under the consumer based economic model where the economy is reliant on the public continually upgrading their technology year after year. This is different from, let’s say, the 60s-70s where a TV would last 15-20 years, kitchen appliances 20+ years and cars 15-20 years.

The only minor problem I have with this is the fact that they’re killing off a unique form factor in the original SE. I couldn’t care less about the 6, 6S and 8 because the form factor is still relevant today with the SE2/SE3. The SE1 is still the most powerful small phone in 2023 and we will never see anything like it again. I had the 12 Mini and it dwarfed the SE. It’s only considered small now because phones are so big!

Yeah, they're definitely designed to be consumables. It's like I said earlier: if performance and battery life won't end a device's life (that will never kill my 6s. It will always be flawless on iOS 10, regardless of time elapsed), then app support will, unless I am such a basic user that I don't use anything (honestly, I think I'm there. I use my 6s for iMessage, some very light web browsing - those websites which still work, not all do - and music. For anything else, the device is useless).

And yes, nobody has any incentive to cater to us. We aren't enough to make the effort worthwhile, unfortunately. The only way that would happen is if iOS adoption rates plummeted to 10%, and users started to massively fragment iOS, which they won't, as much as I'd love to see that (my devices would gain a lot of lifespan if that were the case).

You are totally right about the SE 1st-gen, and I'd add another model: the 8 Plus. That one is also the best iteration of the Plus models, and it probably suffers iOS 16's impact severely. Should users refuse to update, they'll suffer the same fate as my 6s. Thing is, as they all run iOS, any attempts to support those iPhones require efforts to support the rest of the iPhones, so the conclusion is exactly the same: it isn't worth it.
But yes, the SE is even more relevant because of the fact that's the final truly portable and comfortable iPhone. It's a shame that flawless iterations of that model (on iOS 10, as it cannot run iOS 9 because it is affected by that A9 bug), are as useless as my 6s. It had no drawbacks for those who care about that device back when iOS 10 was fully supported: small, portable, comfortable, battery life was amazing. No disadvantages at all. Unfortunately, like you said, just because it's the best iteration of something, and just because it can be considered timeless it doesn't mean it's any less vulnerable to updates-induced obsolescence. The same fate will befall the best iterations of the original 9.7-inch iPad design language, unfortunately.

I'd say that users do like to keep older devices, but they don't care if they're obsolete as much as we do. You said you really liked the 1st-gen SE, and it's sad that there's no replacement, and not only that, but it will be obsolete eventually, even on iOS 15. Hopefully it remains useful to you for a very long time!

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, they're definitely designed to be consumables. It's like I said earlier: if performance and battery life won't end a device's life (that will never kill my 6s. It will always be flawless on iOS 10, regardless of time elapsed), then app support will, unless I am such a basic user that I don't use anything (honestly, I think I'm there. I use my 6s for iMessage, some very light web browsing - those websites which still work, not all do - and music. For anything else, the device is useless).

And yes, nobody has any incentive to cater to us. We aren't enough to make the effort worthwhile, unfortunately. The only way that would happen is if iOS adoption rates plummeted to 10%, and users started to massively fragment iOS, which they won't, as much as I'd love to see that (my devices would gain a lot of lifespan if that were the case).

You are totally right about the SE 1st-gen, and I'd add another model: the 8 Plus. That one is also the best iteration of the Plus models, and it probably suffers iOS 16's impact severely. Should users refuse to update, they'll suffer the same fate as my 6s. Thing is, as they all run iOS, any attempts to support those iPhones require efforts to support the rest of the iPhones, so the conclusion is exactly the same: it isn't worth it.
But yes, the SE is even more relevant because of the fact that's the final truly portable and comfortable iPhone. It's a shame that flawless iterations of that model (on iOS 10, as it cannot run iOS 9 because it is affected by that A9 bug), are as useless as my 6s. It had no drawbacks for those who care about that device back when iOS 10 was fully supported: small, portable, comfortable, battery life was amazing. No disadvantages at all. Unfortunately, like you said, just because it's the best iteration of something, and just because it can be considered timeless it doesn't mean it's any less vulnerable to updates-induced obsolescence. The same fate will befall the best iterations of the original 9.7-inch iPad design language, unfortunately.

I'd say that users do like to keep older devices, but they don't care if they're obsolete as much as we do. You said you really liked the 1st-gen SE, and it's sad that there's no replacement, and not only that, but it will be obsolete eventually, even on iOS 15. Hopefully it remains useful to you for a very long time!

Well nothing is ever timeless. All lithium ion batteries that are over 15 years old become useless. Keeping your 6S locked at iOS 10 will unfortunately not prevent the battery life from dropping to an unusable level. I have ancient 10-15 year old laptops with batteries that have barely been used and they dry up within 15 minutes or less. That’s just what happens. Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan (even when unused) and they aren’t particularly long.

The original Macintosh, which I have as my avatar pic, is more or less timeless though. It’s almost 39 years old, looks brand new, has no degradable batteries and still performs like it did on day one. The best part is that enthusiasts have made Wi-Fi serial modems allowing these old devices to go online wirelessly on Bulletin Boards which are still relatively well populated by retro enthusiasts. I still think it’s surreal speaking to someone across the Atlantic Ocean on a live chat using a computer from 1984.

I would say there aren’t many collectors around. Most people I know are happy to sell their old tech as long as it fetches them enough money. I sold my iPhone 12 Mini because it’s worth something today despite it having been an excellent companion for over 2 years. I, strangely enough, kept my iPhone 8 back in 2020 when I upgraded to the Mini. I can’t remember why exactly but I think the phone wasn’t fetching a high enough amount on the second hand or trade in market.

I agree that nobody will cater to people who are stuck on older versions of iOS or those who wish to keep an older legacy device as a daily driver. Apple is beholden to shareholders and, as such, are not going to needlessly spend money on maintaining old phones from 8 years prior because they’ve already went above and beyond the industry standard. You have to remember that Samsung phones provide 3 years of guaranteed updates whereas other brands only provide 1-2 years of updates. That’s why Android is so fragmented… it’s not that users don’t want to update, it’s that they can’t update.

 

[FeliApple]

Well nothing is ever timeless. All lithium ion batteries that are over 15 years old become useless. Keeping your 6S locked at iOS 10 will unfortunately not prevent the battery life from dropping to an unusable level. I have ancient 10-15 year old laptops with batteries that have barely been used and they dry up within 15 minutes or less. That’s just what happens. Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan (even when unused) and they aren’t particularly long.

The original Macintosh, which I have as my avatar pic, is more or less timeless though. It’s almost 39 years old, looks brand new, has no degradable batteries and still performs like it did on day one. The best part is that enthusiasts have made Wi-Fi serial modems allowing these old devices to go online wirelessly on Bulletin Boards which are still relatively well populated by retro enthusiasts. I still think it’s surreal speaking to someone across the Atlantic Ocean on a live chat using a computer from 1984.

I would say there aren’t many collectors around. Most people I know are happy to sell their old tech as long as it fetches them enough money. I sold my iPhone 12 Mini because it’s worth something today despite it having been an excellent companion for over 2 years. I, strangely enough, kept my iPhone 8 back in 2020 when I upgraded to the Mini. I can’t remember why exactly but I think the phone wasn’t fetching a high enough amount on the second hand or trade in market.

I agree that nobody will cater to people who are stuck on older versions of iOS or those who wish to keep an older legacy device as a daily driver. Apple is beholden to shareholders and, as such, are not going to needlessly spend money on maintaining old phones from 8 years prior because they’ve already went above and beyond the industry standard. You have to remember that Samsung phones provide 3 years of guaranteed updates whereas other brands only provide 1-2 years of updates. That’s why Android is so fragmented… it’s not that users don’t want to update, it’s that they can’t update.

Yeah, I know it will eventually be useless (although the basics will probably remain functional for a while), but I don’t expect anything to last forever, just maybe longer than many. I’ve seen people call the first-gen iPad Pros “completely obsolete, and too old by now” and I have to disagree, they work fine.

Also agree on devices not fetching enough: why would I sell the 6s by now? It’s just worth more like this than what people pay for it, I cannot buy anything with that.

Funny thing is that it isn‘t even Apple’s fault: developers choose not to support old iOS versions and the reason is understandable and obvious. Apple does support older devices! iMessage works on every iOS version it has ever been a part of (iOS 5 onwards), and that’s beautiful. I’ve tried iMessage on an iPod Touch 4G running iOS 5, and it is perfectly usable when creating a chat between that device and my iPad Air 5 running iPadOS 15. I’ve criticised Apple a lot throughout this conversation, this deserves unequivocal praise. I can use iMessage on iOS 5 to message users on any version of iOS, iPadOS, and MacOS that has ever had iMessage.

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, I know it will eventually be useless (although the basics will probably remain functional for a while), but I don’t expect anything to last forever, just maybe longer than many. I’ve seen people call the first-gen iPad Pros “completely obsolete, and too old by now” and I have to disagree, they work fine.

Also agree on devices not fetching enough: why would I sell the 6s by now? It’s just worth more like this than what people pay for it, I cannot buy anything with that.

Funny thing is that it isn‘t even Apple’s fault: developers choose not to support old iOS versions and the reason is understandable and obvious. Apple does support older devices! iMessage works on every iOS version it has ever been a part of (iOS 5 onwards), and that’s beautiful. I’ve tried iMessage on an iPod Touch 4G running iOS 15, and it is perfectly usable when creating a chat between that device and my iPad Air 5 running iPadOS 15. I’ve criticised Apple a lot throughout this conversation, this deserves unequivocal praise. I can use iMessage on iOS 5 to message users on any version of iOS, iPadOS, and MacOS that has ever had iMessage.

The Gen 1 iPad Pro is equipped with an A9X and is still officially supported by Apple as it has been updated to iPadOS 16. It is definitely not obsolete and is capable of almost anything a modern iPad is capable of.

In relation to pricing, old tech Apple tech is not worth selling as there is almost no demand in the market for outdated and near obsolete electronics.

The SE I use, which is in perfect condition, will only fetch £30-40 in the open market. It’s actually worth less than the cost of the battery replacement I organised a few weeks ago. My pristine 6S is probably worth slightly more at £50. These possessions are worth more to me sentimentally than the low amount of cash I would get for them so there is no realistic scenario in which I would part with them.

I am happy Apple have provided very basic usability with unsupported devices stuck on old iOS versions. I used my original iPad Mini 2-3 months ago, which has been updated to iOS 9, and was able to stream songs on Apple Music, FaceTime a family member, send iMessages, steam some podcasts and check e-mails. I wouldn’t say iOS 9 is website compatible because there are only a handful of websites that can format properly, such as Wikipedia, Google and BBC News/Sports. YouTube does play video however is prone to crashing so no normal person would use the device for that purpose. All in all, it was a horrific experience which resulted in me placing the device back in its original box and into the cupboard.

You are right about iPad batteries, due to their sheer battery capacity, being fine even after the devices have been updated to their iPadOS limit. There isn’t any realistic reason to stay on a particular iPadOS version on the iPad as the battery will last throughout the day regardless of which version it is on. My A8 iPad Mini 4, which is on iPadOS 15, doesn’t need charged very often because the battery is still usable despite being 8 years old and powering an underpowered device at its iPadOS limit.

All in all, like you said, Apple have been gracious to pretty much all users in the sense that updates are provided for 6+ years to their devices. They also support older iOS versions with security updates for 1-2 years and allow basic integrated functionality years after a device has been declared obsolete. I mean NO ONE uses an iPad Mini or a device from that era today but it can still FaceTime, steam audio media and send iMessages. That’s impressive in 2023!