Other iPhone in 2027: will we get user-replaceable batteries?

[surferfb]

White I totally understand your argument that governments cannot dictate private entities what to do, we have probably entered new post-corporate age.

Companies nowadays are not simply private entities, they have certain degree of social responsibility. Tight OS lock-ins, artificial barriers in what you can do all create that responsibility. People get tied to certain brands because they have their rules.

In my opinion, USB-C mandate was much-needed push. Who knows how many years it would have taken Apple to implement that already mature connector.

Apple was clearly moving to USB-C, might have taken then a year or two more, but they were clearly moving there.

I am just mad at EU they didn’t do it back in 2019 when many major Android phones have already switched to USB-C (example: abovementioned Galaxy S10+ for example which I sold due to stupid edge scree that I honestly couldn’t use).

Wrong? Sure, maybe. Good? Absolutely!

When time comes and they invent some sort of “USB-X”, EU will simply mandate everyone use that one and make USB-C obsolete. Overregulation? Yes, but what else to do if these companies milking their users for as long as they want.

The flaw in this argument is that now no one has any incentive to spend the money to develop a new port if it can’t be used in the EU. That is what the EU and defenders of these regulations miss.

It will be much harder for a new port will to be invented because who is going to spend $100m+ to design and popularize a port that can’t be used in the EU?

And we’ve already seen a phone manufacturer say “we can’t make the phone thinner because of the port” - so the EU has already negatively impacted product design.

Regulations exists so users will be able to get a better product. For same reason there are multiple regulations about power requirements, safety requirements and so on

Safety is a good use of government regulation. Making product design decisions that chill innovation is not. The free market was perfectly capable of solving that problem on its own.

Remember the EU wanted to mandate Micro-USB! I will never understand why anyone thinks the government mandating the port is a good idea after hearing that. Maybe we would have been laughing at thick, clunky USB-C in 5-10 years.

Back to the subject at hand, same deal for batteries. Government should be regulating the safety of batteries, not their design and removability. Who knows what sort of amazing designs will be prevented due to this government overreach.

 

[cjsuk]

White I totally understand your argument that governments cannot dictate private entities what to do, we have probably entered new post-corporate age.

Companies nowadays are not simply private entities, they have certain degree of social responsibility. Tight OS lock-ins, artificial barriers in what you can do all create that responsibility. People get tied to certain brands because they have their rules.

In my opinion, USB-C mandate was much-needed push. Who knows how many years it would have taken Apple to implement that already mature connector.

I am just mad at EU they didn’t do it back in 2019 when many major Android phones have already switched to USB-C (example: abovementioned Galaxy S10+ for example which I sold due to stupid edge scree that I honestly couldn’t use).

Wrong? Sure, maybe. Good? Absolutely!

When time comes and they invent some sort of “USB-X”, EU will simply mandate everyone use that one and make USB-C obsolete. Overregulation? Yes, but what else to do if these companies milking their users for as long as they want.

Regulations exists so users will be able to get a better product. For same reason there are multiple regulations about power requirements, safety requirements and so on

I think you are missing a lot of history here.

The EU has literally nothing to do with the USB-C standard or implementing it. That's the USB-IF which Apple is a board member on and worked with Intel heavily on with regards to Thunderbolt and USB4 etc. They were literally part of the design team for the USB-C standard in the first place. They also had nearly the first devices on the market.

The delay was, I suspect as they said it was, a completely user-centric choice and not related to pressure from the EU on this front at all. There was a slow rollout on their most popular device. As per many users I had Lightning accessories that I still needed. The EU however did seem to like taking credit for this transition.

----

Going back to the original point, iPhone batteries have always been user replaceable. The problem is that most users do not have the skills, patience or knowledge to do it. It's not even hard. I've done several going back to the iPhone 5. It's just people have absolutely zero mechanical or material dexterity or knowledge at all. But they have an engineering opinion, which they are probably not entitled to if you ask me.

In my experience it is the same people who routinely moan about this who drive around in some Mercedes and pay 2x new iphones in cash in service every year, yet never perform the maintenance themselves.

I just got the battery replaced this weekend on my old 13 Pro which my daughter has. That is 4 years old now. I paid Apple £85 to do it and they had it for 2 hours and it's as good as new, the work was done professionally and the equipment used to seal/unseal it was the right stuff.

Does the EU really need to regulate that scenario?

No it's missing the point.

It should be regulating the trash end of the market. If you bring a product to market in the EU you should have a presence and a supply chain set up to offer repairs and to repair it for a reasonable lifetime. And you should dispose of it when the time comes as well.

Other companies need to step up and be more Apple, not hold Apple to account. They're sitting there hoping no one will notice them while everyone is complaining about Apple.

(that includes things down to childrens toys which arguably have a higher environmental impact on the use-once and throw in the trash scale)

 

[uacd]

And we’ve already seen a phone manufacturer say “we can’t make the phone thinner because of the port” - so the EU has already negatively impacted product design.

I think the next frontier would be no ports at all🙂
Wireless data transfer (or even magsafe-like) is the way to go. I don’t believe Apple cannot do that and probably they will ditch the port in iPhones in future, same as in Apple Watch (which are tethered to an iPhone tho)

Remember the EU wanted to mandate Micro-USB! I will never understand why anyone thinks the government mandating the port is a good idea after hearing that. Maybe we would have been laughing at thick, clunky USB-C in 5-10 years.

Yeah, forgot to mention that back in 2019 while some flagships adopted back-then fresh and new USB-C, many cheaper devices were still micro USB, especially cameras and such. And I was like “umm and what am I supposed to buy, a port that goes obsolete in a year??”.

Despite that I still love there are companies eager to bring innovations to the market despite anything. I didn’t buy my GoPro Hero 5 back in 2016 for USB-C but it was like some stolen alien tech, yeah it is kinda non practical and probably easy to break (so I always charge my Mac with extra caution), but I liked the prospects of being able to charge everything with one single cable

 

[TracerAnalog]

So it looks like we’re getting a waterproof iPhone. I’m OK with that. It’ll probably add to some bulk but I think that’s a fair trade off for some.

No, we’re not going to go back to the batteries that were held with a plastic cover. When you drop the phone, the battery and cover would go flying. I’m nostalgic for some things, but not that 🗑️. Apple and every other flagship smartphone maker got it right with the sealed battery

Also... self replaceable batteries might pose a bit of a (legal and PR) problem for phone manufacturers. What if more and more of your brand's phones catch fire due to cheap and badly manufactured replacement batteries ordered on eg. Alibaba? The most safety critical part of a phone will be out of control of the manufacturer, and low cost alternatives will become available to users. Low cost is fine, but how do you check the quality as a consumer? There are after market batteries today as well, but the scale of aftermarket battery sales will be much much larger.
I'm curious how this will pan out 😊

 

[ayephoner]

Also... self replaceable batteries might pose a bit of a (legal and PR) problem for phone manufacturers. What if more and more of your brand's phones catch fire due to cheap and badly manufactured replacement batteries ordered on eg. Alibaba? The most safety critical part of a phone will be out of control of the manufacturer, and low cost alternatives will become available to users. Low cost is fine, but how do you check the quality as a consumer? I'm curious how this will pan out 😊

It sounds like you just invented MFi.

 

[TracerAnalog]

It sounds like you just invented MFi.

Yup, but that will go the way of the Dodo. Phones typically need new batteries after the warranty has expired, so consumers will not care about MFi certified parts. They'll go for the $25 battery on sale...

 

[wyliej]

Also... self replaceable batteries might pose a bit of a (legal and PR) problem for phone manufacturers. What if more and more of your brand's phones catch fire due to cheap and badly manufactured replacement batteries ordered on eg. Alibaba? The most safety critical part of a phone will be out of control of the manufacturer, and low cost alternatives will become available to users. Low cost is fine, but how do you check the quality as a consumer? There are after market batteries today as well, but the scale of aftermarket battery sales will be much much larger.
I'm curious how this will pan out 😊

Not my problem as a consumer. The existence of third-party batteries doesn't eliminate my ability to buy an OEM battery. And the competition will help to keep the prices of OEM batteries at a sane level.

I've never bought third-party printer toner, either, but I'm happy that it exists.

(Again, I don't think that product design should be legislated, but there is an undeniable consumer benefit in this case.)

 

[azhava]

By the time my battery needs replacement I'm usually ready to trade the phone in for a new one, so a user replaceable battery ranks right around zero in my priorities. I've had iPhones since the 3G, never had a battery replaced in any of them.

 

[Mrbobb]

User-replaceable batteries will go down with USB-C port. I never understood why iPhones batteries need to be glued, machine a battery-sized cavity like a SIM tray but larger, ION polymers can be shaped in any thickness one desires. With China saying no to iPhones, Apple doesn't dare to lose the U.S. or E.U. markets.

 

[AlexESP]

A user replaceable battery is only an engineering solution away. It can be done whilst maintaining IP68 integrity, it’s just manufacturers don’t want to because they’d rather customers buy a whole new device and contribute to the ewaste mountain.

Something simple like a bottom plate that unscrews allowing the battery to slide out wouldn’t be too hard.

Sure, it can be done while maintaining the IP68 rating, but then adding some other compromises. Unless there’s some magical solution, adding screws and a removable part (which is not such an easy solution) will bring some compromises. I often hear “X phone had a removable battery and was waterproof”, so of course, you can do it, but you need to ask yourself why they sold way worse than their counterparts. Customers seem to think that their trade-offs are not worth it.

 

[AlexESP]

With the case of shifting from Lighning to USB-C, a far more important factor for end users was transfer speed and the ubiquity of USB-C compared to Lightning, not legislation. The shift to USB was better for everyone except the division of Apple which controlled licenses for making Lightning connectors.

The problem with the change to USB-C is that we don’t really know how important it was to users, it was just forced. For example, I strongly think transfer speeds were irrelevant for >95% of users, and ubiquity depends on the kind of devices you have - I’m sure many people have been pissed off because their old lightning accessories now need an adaptor.

So the shift was not “better for anyone”, and we have no way to know for how many people. Also, there are some “hidden consequences” that are definitely relevant for users. For example, lightning was smaller, which means Apple could use more internal space for things that might be more interesting for users than higher transfer speeds. It’s similar to the battery discussion: I think people don’t realise that choosing compromises carefully is critical on a device like a phone, and usually the compromise the market would choose is not the same as you could infer based on MacRumors comments.

 

[ofarlig]

I really hope they don’t, it is impossible to make the battery user replaceable while keeping everything else exactly equal (price, weight, size, durability, other components). And I can’t see a world where replacing the battery myself instead of just letting Apple do it ever becomes relevant for me.

With foldable on the horizon where batteries have to be divided up into two it just makes the problem bigger with no gains to be made for me

 

[maerz001]

I really hope they don’t, it is impossible to make the battery user replaceable while keeping everything else exactly equal (price, weight, size, durability, other components). And I can’t see a world where replacing the battery myself instead of just letting Apple do it ever becomes relevant for me.

With foldable on the horizon where batteries have to be divided up into two it just makes the problem bigger with no gains to be made for me

Just think of countries where no Apple store exists. South America, Africa, many Asian and European.

And in most of this countries the majority of people don’t have the money to buy a new phone every 2 years.

Apple could also just bring an additional home serviceable model without affecting the other glued together devices.

You are just limiting yourself cutting ideas.

 

[ofarlig]

Just think of countries where no Apple store exists. South America, Africa, many Asian and European.

And in most of this countries the majority of people don’t have the money to buy a new phone every 2 years.

Apple could also just bring an additional home serviceable model without affecting the other glued together devices.

You are just limiting yourself cutting ideas.

I don’t like the idea of making products worse because some people don’t live in countries where there’s no support from the manufacturer or they cannot afford to buy the product.

Other people will see it differently but as I said, the idea has no gains for me whatsoever but there’s downsides so I hope Apple somehow can go around it.

 

[Happy_John]

I don’t like the idea of making products worse because some people don’t live in countries where there’s no support from the manufacturer or they cannot afford to buy the product.

Other people will see it differently but as I said, the idea has no gains for me whatsoever but there’s downsides so I hope Apple somehow can go around it.

This has been tried with many products and types of products over the year - it doesn't really work outside of very specific use-cases, ( essential items and /or items specifically for the educational market, say).

You can have a range of lower cost to higher cost items, but there's something wrong with(in my opinion) with, say, not offering iPhone Pros but only offer iPhones and iPhone e in a market because you don't this the market is wealthy enough for the high end.

Offer the whole range, give people the choice. Simply keep a lower amount of the high-end, appropriate to what really will sell.

I don't agree with a supplier reducing customer choice because the supplier thinks the consumers shouldn't be able to buy anitem because either is too expensive. That is the consumer's choice.

That phone's should be more easily repairable by the user has nothing to do with how wealthy the user is, and that shouldn't be a justification to segment the market like this.

 

[ofarlig]

That phone's should be more easily repairable by the user has nothing to do with how wealthy the user is, and that shouldn't be a justification to segment the market like this.

It has to do with that because the product inevitably becomes worse when the battery has to be able to be replaced by the average idiot, and the only benefit is a very small cost savings for the select few that keep their phones for a long time. So I get a worse product without any benefit, which is why I think this is a terrible suggestion.

A better way to fulfil the goal of phones being used longer is to mandate manufacturers to both have a battery replacement program for X amount of years at a reasonable cost as well as sell OEM batteries for a reasonable cost during that time. This doesn’t hamper product quality while still making sure people can keep their phones for a long time at a reasonable cost if they want to.

 

[maerz001]

It has to do with that because the product inevitably becomes worse when the battery has to be able to be replaced by the average idiot, and the only benefit is a very small cost savings for the select few that keep their phones for a long time. So I get a worse product without any benefit, which is why I think this is a terrible suggestion.

A better way to fulfil the goal of phones being used longer is to mandate manufacturers to both have a battery replacement program for X amount of years at a reasonable cost as well as sell OEM batteries for a reasonable cost during that time. This doesn’t hamper product quality while still making sure people can keep their phones for a long time at a reasonable cost if they want to.

The definition on worse product here is in your head.
For me a worse product is a non repairable.
You said that the product would suffer in price, durability and so on. There is no physical rule for that. Its in the engineering to solve these problems.

Yet we will get a folding phone with delicate hinge and display for $2000 but not a couple of screws and a gasket costing $1 to change the battery…

 

[ofarlig]

The definition on worse product here is in your head.
For me a worse product is a non repairable.
You said that the product would suffer in price, durability and so on. There is no physical rule for that. Its in the engineering to solve these problems.

Yet we will get a folding phone with delicate hinge and display for $2000 but not a couple of screws and a gasket costing $1 to change the battery…

Yeah you can have a different opinion, but the product gets worse for me so therefore I think it is bad. Screws and a gasket would be terrible for me, ugly and creates more failure points for water penetration as well as screws demanding more space and weight than glue does.

That’s the problem, in the real world any easily openable and closable solution will demand more space or weight than glue does (with todays knowledge). And I see no point in having it easily openable so even making the device 1g heavier means the product gets worse for me without any benefit.

 

[Ctrlos]

Sure, it can be done while maintaining the IP68 rating, but then adding some other compromises. Unless there’s some magical solution, adding screws and a removable part (which is not such an easy solution) will bring some compromises. I often hear “X phone had a removable battery and was waterproof”, so of course, you can do it, but you need to ask yourself why they sold way worse than their counterparts. Customers seem to think that their trade-offs are not worth it.

In the case of the Samsung devices, they’re aimed at site work rather than the general consumer. Devices like the Fairphone are made by a small, niche company.

The point is that if they can do it, it’s a walk in the park for Apple. It’s a design decision they ultimately choose not to make, not an immovable object they cannot overcome.

 

[eoblaed]

I think the next frontier would be no ports at all🙂

Frontiers are disallowed when governments dictate technical details.

I wouldn't mind if there was a user-replaceable battery scheme ... provided it was an option. I've never once had a phone battery replaced. It's a non-issue for me and I really don't want to compromise on battery capacity, structural integrity, weather/dust proofing, or aesthetics to get a feature I don't need, ever.

That said, if there was a check box during ordering where a user could opt to get a user-replaceable battery configuration, that's fine. I really don't want to be forced to accept compromises into my most frequently used piece of tech for a feature that has zero value for me.