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iPhone maybe 3G!?

1

1996Mac

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 11, 2003
19
0
Chapel Hill, NC
Come to think of it....I think they maybe just a 3G chip inside the iphone. The chip inside the phone has been "dumb down" to work only as a "2.5G" chip. All Apple have to do is send out a "firmware" update...and there you go you have a 3G phone. Why do I say this? Well, I think this because, remember when Apple starting putting "N" cards in the new iMac and did not tell or posted the information about this? The only way we knew this, is because someone took it apart and posted the information and pictures to prove it. Apple did not say much about the "N" cards until they were ready to release the new airport extreme base station. There was some "noise" about people who had the new Mac, but did not have the new airport, had to pay $4.99 to release the "firmware" in order for the "N" card to work the way it should have. What Im trying to say...Cingular (at the time), about 9 or 10 months ago open up some of its 3G towers in large major metropolitan areas. Keep in mind, they do have 62 million users! There is no way you would just open up the flood gates, to allow this many people or even half amount, to hit yours towers. Remember what Steve Jobs said in Jan at the Macworld show, that the hardware is there....all you have to do is software updates. In addition, AT&T sells 3G phones at there B&M stores, and their web site, in NON "major metropolitan areas" where as you can only use the 2.5 G spectrum....think about it!

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/technology/3g-umts.jsp

https://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/09/apple-quietly-releases-802-11n-capable-airport-extreme/

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=212293773&s=143441
 
As has been said before 3G and Edge operate on different frequencies. Apple would have had to disclose the 3G frequencies to the FCC. No matter how secretive Apple likes to be, they wouldn't keep something like that from the FCC.

So no, there's little chance it's 3G.

That being said, we haven't seen all of the FCC documents yet, those won't be uncovered until July (i think).
 
chriswheat said:
As has been said before 3G and Edge operate on different frequencies. Apple would have had to disclose the 3G frequencies to the FCC. No matter how secretive Apple likes to be, they wouldn't keep something like that from the FCC.

So no, there's little chance it's 3G.

That being said, we haven't seen all of the FCC documents yet, those won't be uncovered until July (i think).
Click to expand...

When does the confidential status lift on the FCC documents? Tomorrow?
 
From a google search:

"The Apple Inc. A1203 GSM Cellular Telephone with Bluetooth and Wifi, FCC ID: BCGA1203, is in compliance with the limits for general population uncontrolled exposure specified in FCC 2.1093. The device was tested according to the measurement standards and procedures specified in FCC OET Bulletin 65, Supplement C (Edition 01-01) and IEEE p1528/D1.2, April 21, 2003."

Per Apple's request, the test report omitted the following for "short term" confidentiality reasons: Test Setup Photos, External Photographs, Internal Photographs, and the iPhone User Manual.

Permanent confidentiality omissions included the iPhone's Block Diagram, Operational Description, Radio Schematic, Radio Bill of Material, Radio Tune-up Procedure, and Exhibit notes.
Click to expand...

It appears that the Radio Schematic and Bill of Material are on the permanent confidentiality list. So we wouldn't know anyway once the "short term" confidentiality is lifted.

Also, the date the confidentiality will be lifted is 45 days after the approval of the device which happened around May 16th.
 
wishful thinking maybe. However, look at the picture realisticly. 3G is not an evolving thing, there is a standard, unlike 802.11n. Yes there were pre-n draft releases but not the same. I would imagine if they thought about being cool and putting a 3G chip in, not only would it be found in the FCC documents, i would imagine there is a 3G cert comitte that has to sign off on it, just the same as there is a bluetooth comitte. Just my thought
 
chriswheat said:
As has been said before 3G and Edge operate on different frequencies. Apple would have had to disclose the 3G frequencies to the FCC.
Click to expand...

I know they work on two different frequencies! To clear things up, The chip is hardware. Hardware is dumb! Software tells the hardware what to do. Thats why I said there will be a "firmware" update. The hardware will not change! The software could tell the hardware to work on a another frequency. What make you so sure they did not tell the FCC?

holla back
 
Obviously the chip is hardware and obviously they could update it with a firmware upgrade. My point is simply that they would have to tell the FCC. I haven't done the necessary research to prove that they haven't, but I'm sure that someone would've noticed it. You can look here: http://www.gsmworld.com/using/spectrum/frequencies.shtml for a list of 3G frequencies. Then go to the FCC approval and read the last PDF on the page. It shows all of the frequencies tested. See if those match up. I think what you'll see is that they didn't test 3G frequencies, and if that's the case, they would be in serious trouble for including them.
 
Stop worrying about 3G the future is wifi. Not 3g.

There is no secret 3g chip because there does not exist a 3g chipset that does not over-drain a battery.
 
Not even CLOSE to being possible.

Not just for all the technical reasons posted above.... but also for one big other reason: ATT does NOT even have a 3G network!
 
i'm not discounting the possibility, but considering almost all the reviews to date go something like this: it's a great phone, lives up to the hype, but the network sucks. from a PR perspective it seems that had the phone shipped with 3G, it would have been enabled by now.

unless they're being truly machiavellian and leaving the huge gaping flaw in the open to deflect from minor criticisms like keyboard issues, no ichat, no mms, etc... then updating 6 months from now.
 
marksman said:
Stop worrying about 3G the future is wifi. Not 3g.

There is no secret 3g chip because there does not exist a 3g chipset that does not over-drain a battery.
Click to expand...

wow good job with a completely unsupported comment.
#1 yeah wifi is the next big thing... wait you get it while you're driving and walking around 24/7?
#2 wtf? no. That is the dumbest thing i've ever heard. I get 3-4 days of battery life on my smartphone with Ev-Do. (which is a 3g network)
"EVDO, also known as EV-DO, 1xEvDO and 1xEV-DO, is a standard for high speed wireless broadband. The acronym is short for "Evolution, Data Only" or "Evolution, Data Optimized". The official name, defined by the Telecommunication Industry Association, is "CDMA2000, High Rate Packet Data Air Interface". It is one of two major Third Generation, or 3G, wireless standards. The competing standard is known as W-CDMA."

Good job trying to justify Apple's lack of 3g.

um btw my phone has wifi too. I can surf java enabled pages, run flash 7, and search for contacts =P
 
no no no .. but the only way the iphone could have a 3G chip is if the FCC is keeping that information confidential. otherwise, there isnt a 3G chip. they cant keep that from the FCC.
 
AHDuke99 said:
no no no .. but the only way the iphone could have a 3G chip is if the FCC is keeping that information confidential. otherwise, there isnt a 3G chip. they cant keep that from the FCC.
Click to expand...

How do you know they didn't report it to the FCC? The relevant documents are under permanent confidentiality, so there's no way you could know.

That said, I think its unlikely, but its certainly possible.
 
Steve said today that the 3G chip eats up too much battery...I doubt it's true.
 
Along with the GSM/GPRS/EDGE radio, the iPhone has a 3G/W-CDMA radio chipset in it. Each of these run off of a Qualcomm chipset with ARM cores. I assume this is why people were quoted as saying the iPhone has 3 ARM chips in it. However, only one of these 3 ARMs is used as the main CPU. The others are a part of the ASIC design.

However, due to the recent FTC embargo with Qualcomm, the units either had to ship with the W-CDMA radio disabled, or not ship at all until the matter is cleared up.

Apple is expected to release an enabler at a future date. The 3G chipset in the iPhone is the same one used in many Motorola units and it will be a major power drainer. YMMV.
 
hkb said:
Along with the GSM/GPRS/EDGE radio, the iPhone has a 3G/W-CDMA radio chipset in it. Each of these run off of a Qualcomm chipset with ARM cores. I assume this is why people were quoted as saying the iPhone has 3 ARM chips in it. However, only one of these 3 ARMs is used as the main CPU. The others are a part of the ASIC design.

However, due to the recent FTC embargo with Qualcomm, the units either had to ship with the W-CDMA radio disabled, or not ship at all until the matter is cleared up.

Apple is expected to release an enabler at a future date. The 3G chipset in the iPhone is the same one used in many Motorola units and it will be a major power drainer. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Wow, where do you get this information? Do you work in this industry? If this is true then perhaps a software update could enable 3G if Apple can figure out how to use the Qualcomm chipset in an energy efficient manner.

Also, what's the scoop with the FTC embargo of Qualcomm?
 
loudog40 said:
Wow, where do you get this information? Do you work in this industry? If this is true then perhaps a software update could enable 3G if Apple can figure out how to use the Qualcomm chipset in an energy efficient manner.
Click to expand...

I work for one of the companies mentioned above :D

It's a software issue, in that software can "flip a bit" in the iPhone firmware to enable to device on boot.

Also, what's the scoop with the FTC embargo of Qualcomm?
Click to expand...

I mistyped, I meant ITC. One of the main issues at hand is some of the power-saving microcode we use in our chips. Broadcom is alleging that we violate some of their patents related to power consumption.

We utilized some microcode in our drivers that significantly reduce the power draw of our 3G chipsets, enabling reasonable battery life on 3G devices.

I should've clarified earlier that it's unknown if Apple will enable the 3G radio. I have no idea, nor any such access to the answer. All I can say is that the capability is there, hibernating.

It's interesting to note that similar implementations of the microcode in question is present in the Linux source code. At some point, the community may figure this out on its own and enable it for use with the iPhone, in the event that Apple doesn't.
 
Sbrocket said:
How do you know they didn't report it to the FCC? The relevant documents are under permanent confidentiality, so there's no way you could know.

That said, I think its unlikely, but its certainly possible.
Click to expand...

well then they will be in a heap load of trouble with the FCC. i doubt they want to pay hefty fines. like i said, the only way it could be there is if they documents are under some sort of confidentiality so the public wouldn't know. the ones that are released says nothing about a 3G chip, nor is the iphone listed under 3G devices on the FCC's website.
 
hkb said:
Along with the GSM/GPRS/EDGE radio, the iPhone has a 3G/W-CDMA radio chipset in it. Each of these run off of a Qualcomm chipset with ARM cores. I assume this is why people were quoted as saying the iPhone has 3 ARM chips in it. However, only one of these 3 ARMs is used as the main CPU. The others are a part of the ASIC design.

However, due to the recent FTC embargo with Qualcomm, the units either had to ship with the W-CDMA radio disabled, or not ship at all until the matter is cleared up.

Apple is expected to release an enabler at a future date. The 3G chipset in the iPhone is the same one used in many Motorola units and it will be a major power drainer. YMMV.
Click to expand...

ok, i'll bite, for now.

sounds like you are confident on this, but if its true, then why isn't the 3G capability listed in the FCC documents? why was it not mentioned in january? was it part of apple's plan to please us with software updates?

i mean, i'd love 3G, IM, MMS, Mp3 rintones, etc ... to be enabled via software update in the future, but i dont see all that happening. if you aren't full of it, which i assume you are, then are you saying that the FCC kept those documents secret until apple wants it to be known? does apple really have that big a pull that the FCC will follow their instructions? i highly doubt it.
 
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