iPhone not a standalone GPS device!

[aristobrat]

Precisely.

Precisely what? Visual voicemail and push messages do not work when DATA ROAMING is set to "OFF".

As you pointed out, there is ALWAYS an international charge for voicemail (or even a call you ignored that didn't leave voicemail), unless you have the carrier disable voicemail before you leave. That is nothing specific to AT&T, the iPhone, or visual voicemail.

If you're paranoid, reset your usage on the iPhone right before you leave so that data shows all zeros. Watch the usage and it'll be very apparent if any data is used after that.

 

[ccer]

... Each country requires GB's of data for the maps,

Rubbish!

All of Europe = 1.3Gb
All of Australia = 110Mb

 

[akadmon]

[...]there is ALWAYS an international charge for voicemail (or even a call you ignored that didn't leave voicemail), unless you have the carrier disable voicemail before you leave. That is nothing specific to AT&T, the iPhone, or visual voicemail.

In that case, I will be calling ATT tomorrow to turn all incoming calls off. A family member, who lives in Europe, is lending me one of his cellphones, so screw you ATT -- I'm not paying your ridiculous roaming fees!

 

[yg17]

Data Roaming turned off is simply not enough. You also have to turn off all push notifications including push email and visual voicemail. Apparently, those things bypass data roaming and charges can accrue.

That's 100% not true. I spent a week in Europe and just had data roaming off (push and everything was still on) and didn't have any roaming fees, except for a few cents when I knowingly turned on data to download an important email I needed. Turning data roaming off stops all data transfer over EDGE/3G. Period. Including visual voicemail. When you get a voicemail with roaming off, you'll get the notification but when you try to go to your voicemail, it will dial in the old fashioned way, it will not be visual. With data roaming off, when overseas the only roaming charges you will get hit with are for calls and text.

In that case, I will be calling ATT tomorrow to turn all incoming calls off. A family member, who lives in Europe, is lending me one of his cellphones, so screw you ATT -- I'm not paying your ridiculous roaming fees!

That's how every carrier works. If I'm over in the UK roaming on Vodafone or whatever and someone calls my phone, the call is first routed to the exchange my phone number belongs to, which for me is in St. Louis. The switch looks me up to find out what AT&T tower my phone is connected to so it can route it, but sees that I'm not on AT&T right now and roaming on Vodafone in the UK. It will then route the call across the pond, into Vodafone's network, which will then figure out what tower I'm on in the UK, and send the call to my phone. Whether I answer the phone or not, that's a minute of usage right there that Vodafone bills AT&T who then in turn bills the customer.

If I choose to send the call to voicemail, my phone will then forward the call to AT&T's voicemail system number. But it's not quite that simple, as the forwarded call to voicemail will route back through Vodafone's network, back across the pond in the other direction, and into AT&T's network where it will finally get to the voicemail system, and Vodafone bills AT&T for each minute the caller spends leaving a message, who then in turn bills the customer. So if someone calls you while you're roaming and leaves a voicemail, the call is routed to your location and then back to your home location. It's a horribly inefficient system, but it's just limitations of the PSTN which was designed 100 years ago when the thought of anyone having a portable phone they could use anywhere in the world was Alexander Graham Bell's wet dream. It's not the fault of one specific carrier, it's the fault of an inefficient telephone network. The carrier you're roaming on understandably wants compensation for your usage, they're not going to just give out free rides to roamers, and you're the one who gets stuck with the charges because you're the one using your phone in a foreign country.

 

[firewood]

Wrong.

A-GPS or ASSISTED GPS just means that it can ALSO leverage cell phone towers to increase the speed and accuracy of your position IN ADDITION to standard GPS.

No cell phone network nearby? Then it just switches back to good old GPS.

Has anyone actually tested this on a 3GS (on a freshly booted device well out of cell and wifi coverage range)?

There are reports that if a 3G never had a cell or wifi connection near the current location since boot-up, location services would never start up.

 

[kdarling]

There are reports that if a 3G never had a cell or wifi connection near the current location since boot-up, location services would never start up.

From reported experiences, the inability to use standalone mode turned out to have a simple explanation:

The phone will usually shut off (or Maps will stop looking) long before the non-assisted GPS can download the necessary satellite information on its own.

So the trick is to use a third party GPS app that's willing to wait, and make sure your phone doesn't go to sleep while you're waiting. It can take ten or more minutes for the information to be obtained.

 

[locust76]

I have to chime in here, because I see a lot of bullsh*t and misconceptions about GPS flying around here.

First of all, between GPS devices and satellites, there is NO communication. Communication = two-way comms. GPS Satellites simply broadcast constant beacons containing information about the satellite (ID number, for example) and the current time. The GPS device is programmed with the locations of these satellites and can calculate, based on the delay of the signal and the ID number of the signals incoming, where each satellite is in relationship to the device and therefore where the device is on the globe. There is no coordinate downloading. There are no maps on the satellites. They're just dumb beacons. The devices are smart.

Second, the iPhone 3G and 3GS have full GPS receivers and can calculate coordinates based on the signals they receive. Since it takes a long time to get a fix on the satellites, the iPhone uses cell towers to get an approximate location first before searching for satellites. This will, at least, tell the phone which satellites it should be looking for, as dozens may be in "view" at any given time, only 3 of which are really required for an accurate fix.

GPS, even with only 3 satellites, is far more accurate than cell tower location, as you're not always guaranteed to be in range of 3 towers, in addition to the fact that signal reflections occur much more often using terrestrial radio. GPS signals come down from space pretty much straight to the device, whereas cell tower signals are often bounced off buildings and terrain features.

GPS: it's not voodoo magic!

 

[yg17]

From reported experiences, the inability to use standalone mode turned out to have a simple explanation:

The phone will usually shut off (or Maps will stop looking) long before the non-assisted GPS can download the necessary satellite information on its own.

So the trick is to use a third party GPS app that's willing to wait, and make sure your phone doesn't go to sleep while you're waiting. It can take ten or more minutes for the information to be obtained.

My experience was a bit similar. I went over to London and was using the London A-Z map app and the locator on it was never able to find me because it timed out before the GPS could figure out where I was. I wandered over to the Regent Street Apple Store and hopped on their WiFi network and it found me instantly based off that. I turned WiFi off, went out of range of the Apple Store, and GPS continued to work.

My theory, and I don't know how accurate it is, is this: GPS location requires that the GPS knows where the satellites are in the sky. A receiver can either look for the satellites all over the sky, which can take awhile, or, using your last known location and the current time, it can calculate the approximate position of the satellites based off their orbit, narrow down the search area, and lock on in a much quicker timeframe. Some portable car GPSes do this now, I know my Garmin nuvi 765 does that, it usually takes no more than 30 seconds for sat lock assuming it hasn't moved much while powered off. (My older Garmin took awhile to lock if it was off for several hours at a time). So, my theory is that when aGPS is unavailable (such as when roaming and data is off) the iPhone uses the latter method. In my case, it's last known location was back home in St. Louis yet I was in London. The iPhone was looking for the satellites that it calculated should've been visible from St. Louis at that time, but of course halfway around the world, it won't locate them, and the app got impatient and timed out. Once I used WiFi to locate me, the iPhone knew I was now in London and was able to calculate where the satellites were located at over the UK and knew where to look. Once I arrived back in the US, GPS was able to quickly locate me since it could use aGPS. This is one single observation from one single person, so I don't know if that's what the iPhone does, but my experience does seem to show that's the case. It seems like first it will use aGPS, if that fails, it will guesstimate the sat position, and if that fails, it will use the old fashioned method of looking around for the sats until it finds them.

 

[apfhex]

This is one single observation from one single person, so I don't know if that's what the iPhone does, but my experience does seem to show that's the case. It seems like first it will use aGPS, if that fails, it will guesstimate the sat position, and if that fails, it will use the old fashioned method of looking around for the sats until it finds them.

I've had the opportunity to test out the GPS outside of cell coverage and can say my experience seems to confirm this. Was within probably 20 miles of where I drove outside of the coverage area. Opened up Maps and the GPS was able to locate me almost as quickly as normal (a few seconds). Of course I couldn't get any map data but there was enough in the cache to determine it was showing my correct location.

 

[gotrees]

Ok. The solution has been given multiple times.

1. Data Roaming off (which is the DEFAULT setting) absolutely works. You will not be able to use any data connections.

2. If you want the exact position of every photo taken, use one of the Eye-Fi cards. If you have a big beefy Canon that only takes CompactFlash, get an SD to CF adapter card -- they work just fine.

 

[aristobrat]

2. If you want the exact position of every photo taken, use one of the Eye-Fi cards. If you have a big beefy Canon that only takes CompactFlash, get an SD to CF adapter card -- they work just fine.

Doesn't Eye-Fi work by trying to guess your location soley by the wifi networks nearby? It doesn't do GPS or anything with cell towers does it?

 

[MadGoat]

Doesn't Eye-Fi work by trying to guess your location soley by the wifi networks nearby? It doesn't do GPS or anything with cell towers does it?

Yes, yes it does.. I was looking into it, wondering how they got a GPS into a memory card... but alas, all they do is connect to wi-fi and get location based on a skyhook partnership.

 

[akadmon]

I will be calling ATT tomorrow to turn all incoming calls off. A family member, who lives in Europe, is lending me one of his cellphones, so screw you ATT -- I'm not paying your ridiculous roaming fees!

I just got off the phone with AT&T, and it seems thee is no way to turn off incoming calls on an iPhone to avoid unwanted roaming charges while traveling outside of the US.

Can anyone confirm that if I set up call forwarding (to a landline in the US), the call will go directly to the forwarded number, without an attempt to locate my phone first (which probably would trigger charges)? I'm hoping this is the case, because it would solve all my problems. Removing or locking the SIM card is not a good option for me, since it also disables WiFi.

 

[PNutts]

Can anyone confirm that if I set up call forwarding (to a landline in the US), the call will go directly to the forwarded number, without an attempt to locate my phone first (which probably would trigger charges)? I'm hoping this is the case, because it would solve all my problems. Removing or locking the SIM card is not a good option for me, since it also disables WiFi.

LOL. I was going to suggest that! Since this is more of a billing question you may want to give AT&T a call. As the other posters mentioned, it can be a nasty surprise. (My brother-in-law came back from Italy to an $800 phone bill.)

 

[chox99]

My 3GS finds exact location WITHOUT simcard and wifi. A-GPS doesn't mean you have to have some kind of data connection to lock-in your location.

 

[whooleytoo]

A bit OT, but the Seadragon Mobile applet has higher resolution, and more recent, satellite images than Google Maps on the iPhone. It still requires a data connection though.

Incidentally, does anyone know if the Navigon Europe app has the same maps for UK and Ireland as the Navigon "British Isles" (booooooh!) app? It seems odd that it costs 70 euros for UK and Ireland, and just another 20 euros for all the rest of Europe.

 

[alexmadison]

the iPhone’s G.P.S. antenna is much too small to emulate the turn-by-turn navigation of a G.P.S. unit for a vehicle, for example.

 

[Snoopy67]

So I'm going to Europe for a few weeks and was hoping to use my iPhone to find my way around and geotagging my photos. However, it turns out that any iPhone app that does GPS (Maps, PlaceTagger, MotionX) requires the iPhone to be on some kind of a network connection in order to work. What's up with that? My Garmin communicates directly with the GPS satellites, so why does the frogging iPhone need to access a data network? I'm so bummed about this At $5.00 per MB, I'd be a thousand dollars in debt to ATT by the time I got back home!

Have you tried OffMaps?

HTH,
Gabriel.

 

[dacreativeguy]

I just got off the phone with AT&T, and it seems thee is no way to turn off incoming calls on an iPhone to avoid unwanted roaming charges while traveling outside of the US.

Can anyone confirm that if I set up call forwarding (to a landline in the US), the call will go directly to the forwarded number, without an attempt to locate my phone first (which probably would trigger charges)? I'm hoping this is the case, because it would solve all my problems. Removing or locking the SIM card is not a good option for me, since it also disables WiFi.

Can't you just turn on airplane mode (which disables everything) and then turn wifi back on manually? That will give you wifi, but all cellular services (which are affected by international roaming) are disabled. I did this in Mexico and it worked fine.

 

[dccorona]

I already have a portable Garmin unit (the 680) with maps of Europe on it, but it's pretty much useless for walking around town, because it can't hold the charge for more than 1 hour.

well neither would an iPhone running a TBT app...
ok so maybe it'd last a but longer. But those kinds of apps EAT battery

 

[Steve686]

I don't have a 3G S, and besides, what you suggest is just too tedious. I'm going take at least a couple thousand photos while in Europe.

And as for previous suggestions to take an "anchor" photo with the iPhone and use its geotag to tag the photos taken with my Canon, that's not much better. I want to know the exact location the photo was taken, not just the name of the city, and to accomplish this I would have to remember to take an "anchor" photo every 100 feet or so, and then spend time copying the tags. Possible - yes. Efficient use of my time - no.

If you DID have a 3GS, then a screen shot of the compass's lat/lon before a major location change would take the tedious out of equation.

 

[vwDavid]

Also, abroad you will want to be in airplace mode to shut off the data/voice perhaps. But, doesn't airplane mode shut off the GPS too?

How can one use the GPS with the cell radio's off?

The new version of motionX allows you to pre-cache open source maps on the phone up to a couple hundred megs..

 

[aristobrat]

I think the best advice I've seen is to call AT&T before you leave and have them disable voicemail while you're gone.

When you're overseas, you can then leave your phone on like normal. By default, it won't use data when roaming, and since you've turned off voicemail, if someone calls you and you don't answer it, you won't be billed for that call (like you are normally, when voicemail is enabled).

GPS on my phone has worked in airplane mode, but it took forever for it to get a lock on the satellites. With your cell's radio on, it uses local towers to more quickly determine your position. But GPS itself doesn't require a cell radio.

 

[gloss]

the iPhone’s G.P.S. antenna is much too small to emulate the turn-by-turn navigation of a G.P.S. unit for a vehicle, for example.

Tell that to my iPhone.

 

[daihard]

Are you serious? It's a phone, not a GPS-only device. Each country requires GB's of data for the maps, and how would Apple even know which country you might need. Not to mention, how much each of these maps cost. Do you have a stand-alone GPS device like Garmin or Tom Tom? If you do, then you'd know just how difficult it would be to do what you ask.

In terms of storage space, it may be solved by Apple adding an SD card slot to the iPhone (and providing a way for an application to store its data on the SD card instead of the built-in SSD). Just a thought.