iPhone-NOT for foreign use!

[riverfreak]

Unless you want to neuter any email, browser or data use of the iPhone, do NOT plan to use it outside the US!! Apple advertises the phone as providing "unlimited" data (email and browser) use at no extra charge once you are signed up with ATT. And Apple advertises the iPhone as appropriate for "international" use. Not so! ATT (which also says its plans include "unlimited" data use) will kill you with extra charges out of the country if you access email or the browser. Four days in Mexico netted me a $660 bill for only occasionally checking email and looking at a few news pages each day. ATT customer reps were rude and insulting ("you should have asked what charges would be leveled before traveling to Mexico!"--of course, there is nothing in the ATT promotional materials to indicate that there is any reason to inquire). After long conversations, an ATT supervisor reluctantly and imperiously "granted" a 50% discount for the outrageous ($20 per meg) data charges.
In short, don't use this thing abroad for any purpose other than as a simple cell phone!!!
Be warned!
BB

This is exactly the same with every other carrier and cell phone (Blackberrry global plans excluded). You'll run into the exact same customer service situation with any other company.

The iPhone is a PERFECT device for overseas. I just walk around with it in my pocket. Periodically it picks up open WiFi networks and fetches my mail for free. What could be better than that?

 

[Noeld]

There is a lot of uniformed bashing going on here. Making a call from Canada or Mexico does not cost a penny extra. There is free roaming within these countries. If you are calling a non-US number, you will be charged long distance, but there is no aditional fee just to use your phone. But with data (especially when it is set to automatically check e-mail) you can rack up hundreds of dollars in data fees within days without even taking your phone out of your pocket.

The phone companies are being misleading and predatory.

I'm glad you got half of your charges back. They should have given you more.

 

[BWhaler]

Did you assume your included minutes would work in Mexico?

No?

Did you think you could call your friends for as long as you wanted after 9pm?

No.

That's what I thought. So why did you think you had unlimited data?

Look, sorry you had a huge bill, but it's your fault.

You don't see experienced global business travelers with their new iPhones making these mistakes.

Why?

Because every single carrier on the planet has terms like this. Every phone on the planet is subject to these charges.

International execs understand this and manage their costs accordingly.

You went on vacation--high school or college break--with your shiny new iPhone and rang-up huge charges. Now you have to pay the bill. It's really that simple.

Welcome to being an adult. If you make dumb assumptions, you will have to pay. Be thankful that AT&T showed pitty on you and gave you a 50% discount.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, and I know this is a lot of money for you, but it's your fault. Don't come here complaining about. Learn for the experience, pay your bill and move on.

 

[flashy-cat]

easy guys...

He just wanted to tell you what happened to him while traveling. We dont need to crucify him for that. I thought this was a friendly community.

Anyways... Have a great day guys!

Agreed.

Unless you're perfect and have never made a mistake then ****.

 

[ntrigue]

Ultimately, there isn't a reasonable way to quantify how much data a Google Maps route will require. One cannot meticulously measure the impact of checking e-mail or sending an email with embedded images.

When traveling in Australia I did my best (sans Computer Science Degree) to measure the data I was using. My estimate $130.00; actual bill $510.00! This was very casual personal use.

How do I place a value on getting lost and using Google Maps to guide me back to my hotel? Was it $1...$5...$50?!

 

[method525]

There is a lot of uniformed bashing going on here. Making a call from Canada or Mexico does not cost a penny extra. There is free roaming within these countries. If you are calling a non-US number, you will be charged long distance, but there is no aditional fee just to use your phone. But with data (especially when it is set to automatically check e-mail) you can rack up hundreds of dollars in data fees within days without even taking your phone out of your pocket.

The phone companies are being misleading and predatory.

I'm glad you got half of your charges back. They should have given you more.

I'm not following you. You are making a lot of assumptions that you are using to support your argument. Making calls from inside Canada and Mexico does incur charges. If you are charged for voice calls why should data be free? How are companies being misleading? Most of the people who have posted these topics never called into Customer Service to find out what the cost of international roaming. They just run off to another country without even thinking that they may be charged for roaming. Also don't give me "Well they said data was unlimited, so its true everywhere" line. Going out of the country changes everything. Every company has website that gives details about international roaming for data.

 

[MovieCutter]

OMG, Apple is trying to screw me and I'm too damn lazy to read a contract that I signed...BE WARNED

If you can't learn what it is you're signing up for...please go away.

 

[robvia]

Well, I'll post a positive story. I just got my bill and the extra charges were only $5.62.
Each text message received in the UK costed me 25 cents in data usage. To send a text message it was 50 cents.
A 3 minute phone called made from London to Florida costed $3.87 ($1.29 times 3).

My total phone bill for the month was $77.32. ($59.99 plus $5.62 roaming data, plus 10.14 tax, plus 1.55 misc tax).

In my case, I left the phone in airplane mode, and had the e-mail account turned off. The phone was off most of the time. So you can take your phone overseas if you know what to do.

 

[Noeld]

I'm not following you. You are making a lot of assumptions that you are using to support your argument. Making calls from inside Canada and Mexico does incur charges. If you are charged for voice calls why should data be free? How are companies being misleading? Most of the people who have posted these topics never called into Customer Service to find out what the cost of international roaming. They just run off to another country without even thinking that they may be charged for roaming. Also don't give me "Well they said data was unlimited, so its true everywhere" line. Going out of the country changes everything. Every company has website that gives details about international roaming for data.

But you are incorrect about roaming in Canada and Mexico. There is free voice roaming in those countries. I was just in Canada for 5 days (win a non- iPhone on ATT). There was absolutely no extra charge for any of the calls I made or received while there. I did however forget to turn off auto mail and RSS check and rang up $240 just by having my phone sit in my pocket. I looked into what was going on and sure enough, voice roaming is free in Canada and Mexico but data is not. Which with edge is ridiculous. If your data was 3g and therefor accessing a separate signal, it could possibly make a bit of sense. Not the case though. The exact same signal has no additional charge in one case and an exorbitant charge in the other.

 

[edoates]

At some point in time, you called ATT to enable "international roaming." It is NOT on by default. When I called (about 5 years ago with my older phone) and enabled it, the service person cautioned me about per minute charges ($1.29 in most of Europe) and data charges. But my old phone had extremely limited data capability, so I was not concerned.

When I got my iPhone, I called to make sure my international roaming was still active after activation, and it was. And the service person again cautioned me about data charges and offered to sell me the the $29.95 per month (one year contract) for limited data, and 20 cents per kilobyte after that. I declined, but I was informed.

So, "Business Bob," (I doubt the business part of you moniker, since "business" people check costs routinely and assume nothing; socialists assume everything is paid for by someone else), you were likely informed and chose to ignore the information. The rates are also published by ATT on their web site as part of the explanations for international roaming.

Note also, that it is not ATT who sets these rates, but the monopolistic PTTs in many countries. They know who they can rob, and it is travelers.

EddieO

Unless you want to neuter any email, browser or data use of the iPhone, do NOT plan to use it outside the US!! Apple advertises the phone as providing "unlimited" data (email and browser) use at no extra charge once you are signed up with ATT. And Apple advertises the iPhone as appropriate for "international" use. Not so! ATT (which also says its plans include "unlimited" data use) will kill you with extra charges out of the country if you access email or the browser. Four days in Mexico netted me a $660 bill for only occasionally checking email and looking at a few news pages each day. ATT customer reps were rude and insulting ("you should have asked what charges would be leveled before traveling to Mexico!"--of course, there is nothing in the ATT promotional materials to indicate that there is any reason to inquire). After long conversations, an ATT supervisor reluctantly and imperiously "granted" a 50% discount for the outrageous ($20 per meg) data charges.
In short, don't use this thing abroad for any purpose other than as a simple cell phone!!!
Be warned!
BB

 

[edoates]

My point is, that the iPhone has no way to only use the phone for phone calls and not for data. I just went on a cruise to Mexico and while I was gone I just removed my SIM Card (just in case I wanted to use WiFi on the ship which I did not). If I left my SIM Card in and then turned my phone on it would immediately start using EDGE (if available) and start downloading email. Of course removing the SIM turned off my ability to make and receive phone calls. For me this is pretty crazy. I should be able to use my phone for phone calls but turn off the data part.

You can leave your SIM card in if you remember to turn OFF automatic email checking. Then NEVER run the email, safari, stock, google, youtube, or weather applications.

Many have given FEEDBACK to Apple suggesting that we be able to selectively turn OFF Edge, cell phone, Wifi (already present), and Bluetooth (already present). Airplane mode to too crude (all radios off), and whilst traveling, I'd still like to use the cell phone for calls and WIFI where available, but disable Edge so that expensive data services of all types are disabled.

The problem with just getting a prepaid phone in the country in which you are traveling is that many of use don't stay in one country for more than a few days at a time; there is no Europe wide pre-paid as far as I can tell.

EddieO

 

[tpete]

Can't you just not sign up for "international roaming" when you activate your phone, then just rely on hotel WiFi and other open connections for occasionally getting you emails, etc? And use a VOIP like Jajah for calls? That way, you'd never accidently incur the additional charges.

 

[d21mike]

Can't you just not sign up for "international roaming" when you activate your phone, then just rely on hotel WiFi and other open connections for occasionally getting you emails, etc? And use a VOIP like Jajah for calls? That way, you'd never accidently incur the additional charges.

No. The "international roaming" option just makes it a bit cheaper. I called before I left on my trip to check.

 

[MazingerZ]

You can leave your SIM card in if you remember to turn OFF automatic email checking. Then NEVER run the email, safari, stock, google, youtube, or weather applications.
EddieO

Part of the problem is even if those features are turned off, the iPhone still connects to gprs or Edge for other items such as visual voicemail etc. So its also about passive data going back and forth that you have no control over. That's why a switch is needed to turn off the gprs/edge connection.

 

[robvia]

Hotel Wi-Fi is not free. The "access" might be free, but once you connect, you get a page that says pay $5 for an hour of use. Same thing in the airports.

So basically, you can use your phone in the American airport and surf until the plane door closes. Then it's Airplane mode until you get back to the states. If you need to make a call or send a message, do it, but then shut it off until you get back to the states.

 

[tpete]

I just called ATT and they told me that my phone won't even pick up a signal overseas. That corroborates my experience. I really do think it's something you can choose not to activate. More importantly, I've travelled with it through Europe and the former Soviet Union, and I've never picked up Edge. Even _more_ importantly, I've never been charged for roaming. Because I've never been charged more than my standard plan rate, I don't think it's checking in with Edge overseas every now and then when I'm not looking.

I have used the WiFi function overseas. I use hotel WiFi for my laptop, so I've just used that to collect emails on my iPhone.

 

[tpete]

Hotel Wi-Fi is not free. The "access" might be free, but once you connect, you get a page that says pay $5 for an hour of use. Same thing in the airports.

You're talking about what the hotel charges, right? Not AT&T/Apple. Hotel WiFi charges vary by hotel. A lot of Radissons -- maybe all -- are free. There are plenty of other free access points out there.

 

[Business Bob]

Thanks for the confirmation

Stripped of invective from the fine print aficionados, all these messages seem just to confirm what I said: the iPhone is not good for international use--as an iPhone. If you take away all the features that make it the revolutionary device it is, that is, if you remove use of email, browser, maps, stock quotes, messaging, etc, then you no longer have an iPhone, you have a simple, uninteresting cell phone. And you must take these features away, unless you want to get hit with ridiculous data charges. Whether these rates are imposed on AT&T by the foreign carriers is immaterial. The point is that for foreign use, the thing is no more useful than a cheap cell phone, since one can't expect to enjoy the special features without paying a fortune. I thought some people may not be aware of that, and that perhaps not everyone religously sought out the fine print on the AT&T site. Seems like that shouldn't be necessary. (Does everyone on this site read all those terms and conditions every time there is a software update? Do you have time for this?) The upfront advertising should at least provide a footnote about "unlimited" data use and "international" effectiveness coming only at a prohibitive cost. Apparently many have been caught in this bind, as shown by some of the comments in this thread. Someone pointed out that Walt Mossberg even ran a column to warn the apparently many unaware potential customers of this problem. Wish I had seen it earlier.
In short, as I said before, the iPhone is NOT for foreign use, save as a run-of-the-mill cell phone.
You're all wonderful, I don't care what they say.

BB

 

[edoates]

If you didn't activate international roaming, then you get NO charges while overseas. If you called ATT to activate international roaming, then you were likely told of the charges, especially for data. I just spoke with a friendly and knowledgeable ATT rep who confirmed that if you have not activated roaming or purchased a special international calling plan, the iPhone will not connect while overseas, nor will edge work.

The way this works is that when you attempt a connection while overseas, the provider gets your iPhone ID and tries to find out who to bill for service. If you have not turned on international roaming, then there is no one to bill and the connection is refused.

While true that the charges for data are NUTS, it is not true that you have to incur them. Your statement that the phone is basically a cool looking black brick without the data part working is sadly true. If you find a WIFI site, at least you can connect to the internet.

I think if the iPhone information from Apple is read correctly, it just says that the phone is quad band and works internationally (it does); it doesn't say you would necessarily want to do that.

EddieO

Stripped of invective from the fine print aficionados, all these messages seem just to confirm what I said: the iPhone is not good for international use--as an iPhone. If you take away all the features that make it the revolutionary device it is, that is, if you remove use of email, browser, maps, stock quotes, messaging, etc, then you no longer have an iPhone, you have a simple, uninteresting cell phone. And you must take these features away, unless you want to get hit with ridiculous data charges. Whether these rates are imposed on AT&T by the foreign carriers is immaterial. The point is that for foreign use, the thing is no more useful than a cheap cell phone, since one can't expect to enjoy the special features without paying a fortune. I thought some people may not be aware of that, and that perhaps not everyone religously sought out the fine print on the AT&T site. Seems like that shouldn't be necessary. (Does everyone on this site read all those terms and conditions every time there is a software update? Do you have time for this?) The upfront advertising should at least provide a footnote about "unlimited" data use and "international" effectiveness coming only at a prohibitive cost. Apparently many have been caught in this bind, as shown by some of the comments in this thread. Someone pointed out that Walt Mossberg even ran a column to warn the apparently many unaware potential customers of this problem. Wish I had seen it earlier.
In short, as I said before, the iPhone is NOT for foreign use, save as a run-of-the-mill cell phone.
You're all wonderful, I don't care what they say.

BB

 

[d21mike]

No. The "international roaming" option just makes it a bit cheaper. I called before I left on my trip to check.

Based on a recent post by "edoates", I decided to again call AT&T and verify the answer I gave before. I was told by this person that I was wrong and that my phone would NOT have been able to used while I was in Mexico because it was not provised for International Use. However, there are International "Plans" that are cheaper.

Sorry for my prior post.

 

[method525]

But you are incorrect about roaming in Canada and Mexico. There is free voice roaming in those countries. I was just in Canada for 5 days (win a non- iPhone on ATT). There was absolutely no extra charge for any of the calls I made or received while there. I did however forget to turn off auto mail and RSS check and rang up $240 just by having my phone sit in my pocket. I looked into what was going on and sure enough, voice roaming is free in Canada and Mexico but data is not. Which with edge is ridiculous. If your data was 3g and therefor accessing a separate signal, it could possibly make a bit of sense. Not the case though. The exact same signal has no additional charge in one case and an exorbitant charge in the other.

No I'm right. The only time you are not charged for roaming is when you are in the US Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. If you go into Mexico and Canada you are suppose to see roaming charges. Here is the link from our website that gives you the rates that are suppose to be charged. http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/international/roaming/abroad-frequent.jsp As for why you didn't see any charges for roaming in Canada I can't explain it. You got lucky i guess.

 

[DeathChill]

How come people can get away with this? People KNOW that international data is quite expensive and yet they continue to use it and get pissed when they get a huge bill.

I can understand if someone knew not to use data but the phone was automatically doing it (e.g. email or whatever) but when people knowingly use it and then STILL complain...Gah I say!

 

[Silencio]

Hey Business Bob, is this you?

Apple Inc. is facing yet another class-action lawsuit over its iPhone, this time from a New York State resident who claims the company failed to adequately disclose to consumers that the handset is locked to AT&T's network and that using the device internationally would result in substantial data roaming charges.

Herbert H. Kliegerman's 9-page complaint, filed Monday in a New York Supreme Court, accuses Apple of engaging in deceptive and misleading practices by failing to properly disclose to iPhone buyers that their phones would be locked to only work with AT&T SIM cards and that the unlock codes would not be provided.

Approximately two weeks after purchasing his iPhone, Kliegerman traveled to Mexico for a week where he continued to use his iPhone to check emails and surf the web. He did so, according to the suit, after reading a statement on Apple's iPhone website stating that "[y]ou can browse the Internet and send emails as often as you like without being charged extra."

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ew_class_action_suit_over_locked_iphones.html

 

[Business Bob]

Nope

Hey Business Bob, is this you?



http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ew_class_action_suit_over_locked_iphones.html

I figured something like this was inevitable, but taint me; I'm on the West Coast, and don't believe in class actions. Public discourse is to be preferred. And, yes, I did call AT&T to activate international calls. I told the rep that I wanted to be able to make phone calls outside the US. They went through the authorization and price drill but nothing was said about data use or cost. I'm neither experienced in foreign phone use nor clairvoyant. I suspect there are many others like me.

 

[edoates]

I figured something like this was inevitable, but taint me; I'm on the West Coast, and don't believe in class actions. Public discourse is to be preferred. And, yes, I did call AT&T to activate international calls. I told the rep that I wanted to be able to make phone calls outside the US. They went through the authorization and price drill but nothing was said about data use or cost. I'm neither experienced in foreign phone use nor clairvoyant. I suspect there are many others like me.

Just to be contrarian, I'm going to stand with "B-BOB" on this one. If he called ATT to activate international roaming, and was told about the voice charges, but not the data charges, then ATT was not doing its job. The data rates are published on the international page, but at least two page clicks away, and not obvious at that.

This thread has convinced me that there are a large number of in-frequent international travelers who've not had any experience with international roaming, especially for data. Neither Apple nor ATT are reasonably informing their customers about the exorbitant data pricing. The iPhone is constantly using Edge data services even if you don't click anything, and the data charges are close to thievery if you do ($20 for the Apple main web page? Yikes!). With essentially no means to control this activity, such as disabling Edge while keeping phone and wifi active, the "international phone" aspect of the iPhone is in fact useless or worse.

I don't like class actions either, but in this case, it may be justified: Apple and ATT need to be joined into the suit and the settlement should AT LEAST be providing better disclosure and a "disable Edge" option on the phone. If I were an Apple software designer, I'd make that part of the international roaming provider selection process: pick a network, and if for the first time, ask if you want data with a price list attached. Then you could say, Yes or No, Always NO, or yes, and don't ask me this again. In addition, I'd make it a setting right by Wifi on / off.

A fair monetary part of the settlement (beside the lawyers getting all the money... ;-) would be to refund all international data prior to data "x" and make the charge as if the users had the global data plan: $29 for the first 20 megabytes, and $.005/kbyte ($5 per megabyte) after that.

But, I won't hold my breath; sometimes class actions are the only way to get a company's attention.

Eddie O