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I am 99% sure this new update won't be provided for the original iPhone. When Jobs announced 3.0 he said something along the lines of "We're even providing support for the original iPhone", which really seemed to suggest that they didn't plan on supporting the original for that long.

Also 3.0 already runs like a dog on the 3g, I like my iPhone less since 3.0 - it's just so slow. I really wish they hadn't kept offering the 3g alongside the 3gs, it gives people a bad experience with the newer firmware.
 
Meaningless specification arms race....

OK - so basically the jest of this thread is that, in spite of the constant whining about multitasking being absent from the iPhone's OS, it faces technical constraints and might not be so usable unless you have a 3GS.

I said it once before and I'll say it again. Multi-tasking: Zzzz.

I hope 4.0 has improvements to the user interface rather than being just another salvo in meaningless specification arms race. I hope that in 4.0 ToDo items can be synchronized. I hope that duplicate entries in the Calendar get pruned. Most of all, I hope for energy-use profiles that allow me to determine which network, screen and GPS features are turned on. I'd like the option to lock the screen in one orientation. I'd like to see 4.0 make the use of a stolen iPhone impossible, perhaps e-mailing the iPhone's GPS coordinates if the wrong passcode is entered. And, it would be nice if Apple optimized the system to get a little more from the battery. Just saying...
 
Ok.. not meaning to be doubtful.. but is it really confirmed that multi-touch is going to be implemented? I would love to see that being possible, but from the documentation... all it said was that multi-touch were just claims, but who officially made that claim?

I really dont want to build my hopes up too much:( I am planning on buying the new iPhone in a few months as my 3G is pretty slow compared to even my iPod Touch, which I bought 5 or 6 months ago.

But seriously.. I am quite anxious on what reports would stem from the 4.0 OS preview event


PS.. I also agree with VulchR on improvements with the user interface, and I would loveeeee more battery power! But we all know how smartphones deal with batteries, but at least am certain it is possible to have something which can withstand how much juice you use from it
 
its the other way around actually
because of the way its reported in their books, and due to some law, they HAVE to charge for iPod touch updates, and, one would assume, original iPhone updates now. They could charge for iPhone updates if they wanted, but don't have to because the revnue is reported over 2 years.
at least thats my understanding of it

This has been thrown around time and again ever since the 802.11n enabler fiasco. There is no consensus.

One camp (myself included) has generally settled on the interpretation that any software update which delivers new "features" to a device, rather than simply fixing bugs or flaws in features that were already there, constitute the device having been originally delivered in an "incomplete" state.

Apple's interpretation of generally accepted accounting procedures, allegedly in combination with the United States Sarbanes-Oxley Act, tell them that their annual regulatory filings cannot include recognition of revenue from the percentage of the device's total value associated with the "incomplete" features in the device. They can only recognize that revenue after the features that "complete" the device have actually been delivered to the customer. In effect, the new features have to be "paid for" somehow.

Apple has considerable leverage in deciding how to "pay for" the features. One common strategy, which it uses with major new versions of iPod touch software, is to charge for the new software. (Minor new versions of iPod touch software are not charged, because they do not add new features, but simply fix bugs in features that were already there.)

Another strategy, which they use in the iPhone and the Apple TV, is to hold back some of the up-front money they received when the device was first sold, and recognize the held back money gradually over the course of 2 years -- and this gradual recognition of income is meant to represent the gradual addition of new features into the previously incomplete device. The fact that Apple does, indeed, hold back some of their up-front revenue from the sales of iPhones and Apple TVs, to be gradually recognized over the course of 2 years has been repeatedly and objectively confirmed by Apple executives in their annual reports.

By this interpretation, it would be very easy to justify the position that the first generation iPhone, having been off the market for more than 2 years by the time OS 4.0 is likely to be released, may not receive OS 4.0 at all, or else it may be a paid upgrade for users of the original iPhone.

On the other hand, if Apple does proceed to make OS 4.0 available to first generation iPhone owners for free, and if OS 4.0 is released on or after the 2nd anniversary of the original iPhone's discontinuation, then it would act as fairly strong evidence to refute this interpretation.

Moe UK said:
I have never understood that about the updates either, even if it was law that law would only apply in teh US and not the rest of the world.
The revenue from that sale is eventually going to make it back into Apple's general operating funds regardless of the country in which the sale takes place. And Apple is headquartered on US soil and registered as a US company, so ultimately, the way in which it reports that revenue will fall under US jurisdiction.
 
I would not think that processor speed would be a significant issue for multi-tasking. The road-block for multi-tasking on iPhone is RAM.

If multi-tasking will be enabled only on some models, I would assume it would be only for 3GS (+ later models) and iPad. Both have 256M of RAM. Clearly, Apple did not feel that the iPad needed any more memory than that, and I also assume that they anticipated enabling multi-tasking.

Other non-apple phones that have similar ram constraints are able to multitask and the iPhone running the current OS3 is capable of multitasking. This multitasking is limited to apple apps but I can listen to my music via the ipod app and do other things.
 
Although there would be no reason, from a performance standpoint, to differentiate between the 2G and the 3G iPhone, I would not be at all surprised to see Apple limit 4.0 upgrades to the 3G and 3GS. I have no basis in evidence for this suspicion, but I have it nonetheless.
 
Ok.. not meaning to be doubtful.. but is it really confirmed that multi-touch is going to be implemented? I would love to see that being possible, but from the documentation... all it said was that multi-touch were just claims, but who officially made that claim?

I really dont want to build my hopes up too much:( I am planning on buying the new iPhone in a few months as my 3G is pretty slow compared to even my iPod Touch, which I bought 5 or 6 months ago.

But seriously.. I am quite anxious on what reports would stem from the 4.0 OS preview event


PS.. I also agree with VulchR on improvements with the user interface, and I would loveeeee more battery power! But we all know how smartphones deal with batteries, but at least am certain it is possible to have something which can withstand how much juice you use from it
In what sense are you talking about multi-touch? Multi-touch is already implemented widely on the iPhone, in almost any app.
 
Well OS4 probably will not support original iPhone since it is 3 years old and 3 years is like 70 in the technology world. However if they do not support iPhone 3G, they will make a lot of people mad. I hope they include 3G too. On the other hand i don't want it to be extremely slow on the 3G too. Maybe they do: OS4 and OS4:for slow phones.
 
I think the 3G can handle multi-tasking. When I used to jailbreak my phone, I used to run backgrounder pretty easily.

Here's my take:

Multi-tasking will be cut down for the 3G model. IE: Backgrounding on the 3GS will essentailly allow more programs to run in the background.

So maybe it will look something like this:

2G - 1 program multi-tasking
3G - 2 program mutli-tasking
3GS - 4 program mutli-tasking

It really all boils down to RAM. Both CPU's on the 3g, and 3gs are pretty peppy. But the 3gs has double the ram.

My main question is this: How will it work? double tap the home button? push and hold the home bottom? or perhaps, we will have an "open" programs tab on the home screen (kind of like the search pane)
 
It really all boils down to RAM. Both CPU's on the 3g and 3gs are pretty peppy. But the 3gs has double the ram.

But your forgetting the 2G iPhone and the 3G have the exact same CPU/GPU/RAM amount. The first iDevice to get updated hardware was the iPod Touch 2G and all it got was a faster CPU. Not more ram or a better GPU. Thus, if the 3G can do it the 2G can do it and vise versa.

On a personal note, I would hardly call the 3G CPU "peppy". I prefer crappy.
 
Well OS4 probably will not support original iPhone since it is 3 years old and 3 years is like 70 in the technology world. However if they do not support iPhone 3G, they will make a lot of people mad. I hope they include 3G too. On the other hand i don't want it to be extremely slow on the 3G too. Maybe they do: OS4 and OS4:for slow phones.

Hahaha.. 2 types of OS 4 huh... 3Gs is categorized for slow phones or not? :cool:
 
I REALY dont think the 3G will ever be able to multitask. My 3G wont even let my type a new tweet while it is updating the feed, so i have no idea how multiple apps will be able to run.

The problem isn't your 3G. The problem is your twitter client software, which apparently doesn't use multi-threading, or at least doesn't use it effectively.

Third-party applications written for iPhone OS are able to INTERNALLY multi-task, using a feature called multi-threading. An application can start multiple, independent threads.

When an app's UI "freezes" when it's performing some networking task, it's because the developer is a Dumbass. (You can quote me on that...) The app can't update the screen or respond to touches because it is busy waiting for some network data, or doing some computationally-intense task. But in properly-written software on an OS that is capable of multi-threading, this doesn't happen, because the background processing would be on a seperate thread from the UI.

Try another twitter app.
 
The problem isn't your 3G. The problem is your twitter client software, which apparently doesn't use multi-threading, or at least doesn't use it effectively.

Third-party applications written for iPhone OS are able to INTERNALLY multi-task, using a feature called multi-threading. An application can start multiple, independent threads.

When an app's UI "freezes" when it's performing some networking task, it's because the developer is a Dumbass. (You can quote me on that...) The app can't update the screen or respond to touches because it is busy waiting for some network data, or doing some computationally-intense task. But in properly-written software on an OS that is capable of multi-threading, this doesn't happen, because the background processing would be on a seperate thread from the UI.

Try another twitter app.

Very good explanation.
Im surprised many apps released by big name companys on the appstore are written very poorly and are very buggy.
 
Im surprised many apps released by big name companys on the appstore are written very poorly and are very buggy.

I'm not. They didn't sufficiently spec it out for the off-shore developers.

The most laughable meme that is still going around is the often-repeated notion that PCs (usually talking about Windows) can't effectively use multiple cores, because application developers haven't yet started taking advantage of multi-threading.

I'm long retired from Windows software development. But the stuff I worked on 10+ years ago was all massively multi-threaded. Look inside of any Microsoft internal app, and there can be 10's of threads. Most are just sitting there waiting on some signal or I/O completion and doing nothing until the OS says "go", so it's really quite efficient.

Applications didn't start getting multi-threaded because of multiple cores. It's because of the need or desire for UI responsiveness (as well as for multi-user server applications, web servers, etc.), and that happened way before multiple cores or even multiple CPU chips started becoming prevalent.

Windows become massively more responsive when multiple cores started appearing in desktop and notebooks, because now a poorly-written app can't hold up the whole OS and other apps.

iPhone development is a new game, with a new gold-rush of developers, many inexperienced. Many are no doubt afraid of multi-threading, because they think it is going to burden the poor little iPhone processor chip. (Never mind that the poor little iPhone processor chip is massively faster and has as much RAM as our campus-wide timesharing system - dual IBM 360/67's - from my college days that typically supported 100-200 simultaneous users) The irony is that their apps would work so much more nicely and efficiently if they would employ multi-threading.

One thing you can do to help filter out the crapware is to buy iPhone apps from companies or developed by developers who also produce OSX or Windows software. It's a pretty good bet that companies that already have an OSX app and have come out with an iPhone version have some clue. Not always the case, as they sometimes farm this out because of the rush, but they are risking their reputation by doing so.
 
iPad will definitely get 4.0 and so will 3GS since they have almost the same hardware. 3G and 2G may not though.
 
Well, iPhone 3G will get OS4, but without multitasking. The most reasonable explanation for the fact that iPhone 3GS gets OS4 with multitasking but iPhone 3G gets OS4 without multitasking is the difference in RAM and CPU specs.

Tellingly, the original iPhone does not get OS4 at all. As has been pointed out many times before, the computational horsepower of the original iPhone and the iPhone 3G are exactly the same -- so there was no technological reason not to give the original iPhone the same crippled version of OS4 as was given to the iPhone 3G.

It's all about business decisions. And it goes a long way to corroborating the explanation made by people in the "Apple limits access to upgrades due to GAAP requirements" camp.

I just hope that Apple continues to allow App developers to submit apps targeting the OS3 SDK. Otherwise, all of a sudden, no new apps will ever be released for the original iPhone or original iPod touch ever again. And as developers release updated versions of existing apps, with the older versions naturally being withdrawn from circulation, we'll witness the gradual withering away of the entire existing base of apps that can be installed on the original iPhone and iPod touch.
 
I just hope that Apple continues to allow App developers to submit apps targeting the OS3 SDK. Otherwise, all of a sudden, no new apps will ever be released for the original iPhone or original iPod touch ever again. And as developers release updated versions of existing apps, with the older versions naturally being withdrawn from circulation, we'll witness the gradual withering away of the entire existing base of apps that can be installed on the original iPhone and iPod touch.

I was thinking the same thing and I'm glad to find that I'm not the only person with this concern. I'm going to make a full backup of my OS 3-compatible apps before they gradually get replaced with OS 4-only versions.

With any luck, Apple will provide an option to download the last OS 3-compatible version, but I'm not really expecting that; after all there's nothing similar for users currently on OS 2.
 
Apple has been known to allow their oldest Macs to still be compatible with the latest OS -- which keeps people thrilled.

BUT with iphone, OS 4 with multitasking is going to require some heavy processing.

The original iPhone (EDGE) will not be able to do this.
There is a huge speed difference between iPhone 3G and 3GS that I am not sure 3G could do multitasking either.

So, is OS 4.0 going to be something relevant to 3GS and iPhone 4 only?
Or maybe only for new hardware only-- 3G/3GS is maxed out?

*Jason Chen said:

So, to recap. Multitasking, folders, improved Mail, iBooks, enterprise stuff, preview of Game Center and iAd

>>> all for iPhone OS 4G
>>> BUT.. About Multitasking will be supported by 3Gs & iTouch 3rd Gen (32Gb and 64Gb), not 2G or 3G :(

WHY?? [Official announcement]

“There was no decision to make as far as multitasking. Some of the earlier hardware can’t support multitasking at all.” – Jobs

>>> Because of the Hardware Limitation in supporting Multitasking for 2G or 3G

* & 1 Achievement application still in Work-Around till this year
 
God this gets boring, every year the same people moan about apple.

I see it this way. Before the iPhone If I wanted a new set of features I would buy a new phone. Offen before my contract was up and offen paying a premium for a sim free phone. Since my first iPhone 2g I have had an iPhone all the way through it's life cycle.

Do I have an issue with apple releasing a new os that offers limited support to older iPhones ??? NO. Why? Because if the iPhone never existed I would sill be buying a new phone every 9-12 month for new features.

All the people that have moaned in this thread would moan if apple had intact allowed multitasking on the 2g and 3g iPhones when they were suffering a bogged down laggy iPhone with crashes every 5 minutes.

Tech moves on buy a new iPhone and get over it. Apple like every other company needs to make money!

Gav
 
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