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iPhone OS on 2G and 3G - Will it ever be optimized like 1.1.4 | 2.2.1 days?

jav6454

jav6454

macrumors Core
Original poster
Nov 14, 2007
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1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
Ok, so basically we know what has happened to many 1st Gen iPhones and 3G iPhones after the 3.0.0 update. Many people report more lags than usual, decreased battery life, and less responsiveness specially in the 1st Gen.

Question is. Is Apple going to optimized iPhone OS [just like they did with Leopard to Snow Leopard] to help these earlier iPhone models run faster or they just going to sit back and watch faithful customers anger due to OS slowness.

The 1st Gen iPhones fastest firmware was 1.1.4 with the feature best was 2.2.1 and the iPhone 3G's best firmware was 2.2.1.
 
iphone.aggie said:
Possibly, but with all the trolling in that thread, I'm sure it's closing is imminent.

As far as the OP's concern goes, well have to wait and see. I'm hoping they won't forget about us.
Click to expand...

Yes, they closed that thread.

I think Apple is smart enough to be able to make 3.0 run like 2.2.1 on the original and iPhone 3G.

I've alerted them of some performance bugs as well as a lot of little GUI bugs too. Hopefully they'll clean it up for us. I'm guessing 3.1 will be what 3.0 should have been.
 
All right, we can try this again, although is there anything to be said that wasn't said amidst the trolling in the other thread?

My personal forecast...

- This is Apple... for instance, the iPhone 2G hardware can't support MMS? Please...

- SL optimizes OS X but only for relatively recent Macs. Unfortunately what could similarly happen is a cutoff and a more effective OS that requires better hardware on later versions of the iPhone...

- OTOH Apple is stuck particularly in the US with its painful relationship with AT&T. They decided to sign these unending exclusivity deals and they let AT&T back them into using a standard subsidy model, and AT&T is clearly not on Apple's page in terms of how frequently Apple wants iPhone users upgrading to new hardware (i.e. basically from Apple's point of view they want it to happen once a year or so, so far).

I think the third thing helps us out some against Apple's natural inclinations in the first two....

That being said I think there's also the not so insubstantial argument of some kind of preference rot on the iPhone -- there still isn't another clear explanation of why some users see slow downs and battery issues compared to 2.x and others really, honestly don't (I don't).
 
mkrishnan said:
All right, we can try this again, although is there anything to be said that wasn't said amidst the trolling in the other thread?

My personal forecast...

- This is Apple... for instance, the iPhone 2G hardware can't support MMS? Please...

- SL optimizes OS X but only for relatively recent Macs. Unfortunately what could similarly happen is a cutoff and a more effective OS that requires better hardware on later versions of the iPhone...

- OTOH Apple is stuck particularly in the US with its painful relationship with AT&T. They decided to sign these unending exclusivity deals and they let AT&T back them into using a standard subsidy model, and AT&T is clearly not on Apple's page in terms of how frequently Apple wants iPhone users upgrading to new hardware (i.e. basically from Apple's point of view they want it to happen once a year or so, so far).

I think the third thing helps us out some against Apple's natural inclinations in the first two....

That being said I think there's also the not so insubstantial argument of some kind of preference rot on the iPhone -- there still isn't another clear explanation of why some users see slow downs and battery issues compared to 2.x and others really, honestly don't (I don't).
Click to expand...

The previous thread devolved into trolling because the discussion had already run it's course and there was nothing else to talk about. We don't need this thread.

I have 3.0 installed on both the 3GS and on my original iPhone. How fast it is on older hardware is really a subjective call, and I have noticed 3.0 to be just as fast on my original as 2.2.1 was.
 
Eso said:
The previous thread devolved into trolling because the discussion had already run it's course and there was nothing else to talk about. We don't need this thread.

I have 3.0 installed on both the 3GS and on my original iPhone. How fast it is on older hardware is really a subjective call, and I have noticed 3.0 to be just as fast on my original as 2.2.1 was.
Click to expand...

3.0 is a fraction slower than 2.2.1 from my experience, however it's the animations stuttering that bothers me in 3.0. Apps seem to startup just about as fast as 2.2.1. Some apps even start up faster. I'd wait an extra nano-second to get smoother animations any day.

Honestly, 3.1 is a little better than 3.0 with animations, but I think the final 3.1 will be a breath of fresh air.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

By the way... If your iPhone 3G is still as nice as 2.2.1, just know that during my testing and LOTS of experience with 3.0/3.1 I found 3.0/3.1 to be inferior to 2.2.1 in graphics, UI and animation smoothness.
 
cellocello said:
I'm really hoping 3.1 speeds things up on the 3G.
Click to expand...

Having some problems I see. Apparently Eso has one of those rare elite iPhones.

...That reminds me... if 3.0 is really the same as 2.2.1, then why do I always want to revert back to 2.2.1 after using 3.0 for a day? (This isn't aimed at you Cellocello)

PS: Cellocello... your name kinda sounds like Yellow Dello (homestarrunner.com). Hehe.
 
Do remember that 1.1.4 and 2.2.1 were the final firmware's of the iPhone Firmware cycle.

After 1.1.4 Apple moved onto new hardware and Firmware 2.0.

After 2.2.1 Apple moved onto new hardware and Firmware 3.0

Both of these firmware's were also around for quite some time before the next update, almost 6 months each.
 
TheSpaz said:
Having some problems I see. Apparently Eso has one of those rare elite iPhones.
Click to expand...

You can't let it go can you?

I don't have my 3g anymore, but when I had it and upgraded to 3.0.1 the performance doffrerence was like downgrading to 2.x again. Others have observed the same in other threads. And yes we know 3.0.1 was supposed to be an SMS fix, nothing more, but something about the install process helped. Maybe we can work it out based on apps installed or something? Who knows, either way, there is no "elite" 3g, but there are some people experiencing lag while others are not (with 3.0.1 at least, from what I can tell 3.0 is nothing but lag).

As for the question "will they optimize it?". I think that's an easy yes for reasons explained in the other thread. Firstly, the phone is only a year old and the minimum contract length is 18 months. That means that supposing everone bought there 3g on release day they have 4(ish) months left. Those who bought theirs the month before the 3gs was announced have over a year left. Apple can't afford to screw those people over because those people who are not doing an early upgrade or buying the phone payg to put their sim in are the people they need to keep. They are not die hard apple fanbois. They are joe public. The iPhone became a lot more popular after the 3g was released. Second of all, they are still selling the 3g.

I should note that this is my oppinion, not fact.
 
jayenh said:
You can't let it go can you?

I don't have my 3g anymore, but when I had it and upgraded to 3.0.1 the performance doffrerence was like downgrading to 2.x again. Others have observed the same in other threads. And yes we know 3.0.1 was supposed to be an SMS fix, nothing more, but something about the install process helped. Maybe we can work it out based on apps installed or something? Who knows, either way, there is no "elite" 3g, but there are some people experiencing lag while others are not (with 3.0.1 at least, from what I can tell 3.0 is nothing but lag).

As for the question "will they optimize it?". I think that's an easy yes for reasons explained in the other thread. Firstly, the phone is only a year old and the minimum contract length is 18 months. That means that supposing everone bought there 3g on release day they have 4(ish) months left. Those who bought theirs the month before the 3gs was announced have over a year left. Apple can't afford to screw those people over because those people who are not doing an early upgrade or buying the phone payg to put their sim in are the people they need to keep. They are not die hard apple fanbois. They are joe public. The iPhone became a lot more popular after the 3g was released. Second of all, they are still selling the 3g.

I should note that this is my oppinion, not fact.
Click to expand...

It's funny you should mention all of that because I did tests. Lemme explain.

Upgrade from 2.2.1 to 3.0 = Lots of Lag
Restore from 2.2.1 to 3.0 and revert to 2.2.1 backup = Lots of Lag
Restore from 2.2.1 to 3.0 and do not revert to backup = Less Lag

Upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1 = Less Lag
Restore from 3.0 to 3.0.1 = Less Lag

Doing an upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1 is the same as setting up 3.0 as a new phone.

I experienced the same exact performance on a stock 3.0 (no backup) and 3.0.1 (no backup).

So technically 3.0.1 is just 3.0 with the SMS patch. That's all.

Those are my findings.


Note: If 3.0.1 truly did do more than fix the SMS hole, why didn't Apple release an iPod version of 3.0.1? Usually Apple releases bug fixes for all devices at the same time. Since the iPod touch doesn't have SMS, there was no need for a iPod touch 3.0.1. Just something to think about.

3.0.1 just installs better.
 
Ninja Dom said:
Do remember that 1.1.4 and 2.2.1 were the final firmware's of the iPhone Firmware cycle.

After 1.1.4 Apple moved onto new hardware and Firmware 2.0.

After 2.2.1 Apple moved onto new hardware and Firmware 3.0

Both of these firmware's were also around for quite some time before the next update, almost 6 months each.
Click to expand...

1.1.4 was the final 1.0.0 firmware Apple released for the 1st Gen iPhone. After that it was 2.0.0 which carried a slew of problems and application lags.

However, everything was fixed by 2.1.0, and all details and glitches were fixed by 2.2.1. Thus this made 2.2.1 run as smooth as 1.1.4 on iPhone 3G. The 1st Gen got a little slower, but still retained its fabulous speed. However, with 3.0.0, speed is something we all crave for.

Eso said:
The previous thread devolved into trolling because the discussion had already run it's course and there was nothing else to talk about. We don't need this thread.

I have 3.0 installed on both the 3GS and on my original iPhone. How fast it is on older hardware is really a subjective call, and I have noticed 3.0 to be just as fast on my original as 2.2.1 was.
Click to expand...


There were many points o be discusses, but the trolling amid the problems is a problem. Now, let's really focus on the points here.
 
jav6454 said:
1.1.4 was the final 1.0.0 firmware Apple released for the 1st Gen iPhone. After that it was 2.0.0 which carried a slew of problems and application lags.

However, everything was fixed by 2.1.0, and all details and glitches were fixed by 2.2.1. Thus this made 2.2.1 run as smooth as 1.1.4 on iPhone 3G. The 1st Gen got a little slower, but still retained its fabulous speed. However, with 3.0.0, speed is something we all crave for.




There were many points o be discusses, but the trolling amid the problems is a problem. Now, let's really focus on the points here.
Click to expand...

Here's another point for you to think about.

1.0 all the way through 2.2.1 were running on relatively the same hardware specs. (besides the 2nd Gen iPod touch). So therefore, Apple really only had 1 hardware configuration to optimize for.

Now fast forward to today. Apple now has the iPhone 3GS (which runs 3.0 perfeclt in my option) and the older, slower hardware. Is Apple really going to try to bring those devices up to 2.2.1 speeds? Wouldn't they rather have people upgrade to the iPhone 3GS for the speed?

Now that the iPhone 3GS is faster, they really don't need to optimize the OS as much because the 3GS's processor is plenty to handle what they've thrown at it so far. I'm just worried that they're not putting their energy towards the outdated iPhones, and putting it mostly towards what is new and more important.

I beta tested 3.0 since beta 1 and I believe beta 1 and 2 were pretty speedy. Then, Apple must have been working on the iPhone 3GS and started really cranking on the software to make it ready for the public in time. They probably focused all of their resources to making it run great on the new iPhone 3GS. It is in my opinion that Apple will now go back and work on getting the older hardware to run 3.x better now that there's less pressure on 3GS performance.
 
TheSpaz said:
It's funny you should mention all of that because I did tests. Lemme explain.

Upgrade from 2.2.1 to 3.0 = Lots of Lag
Restore from 2.2.1 to 3.0 and revert to 2.2.1 backup = Lots of Lag
Restore from 2.2.1 to 3.0 and do not revert to backup = Less Lag

Upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1 = Less Lag
Restore from 3.0 to 3.0.1 = Less Lag

Doing an upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1 is the same as setting up 3.0 as a new phone.

I experienced the same exact performance on a stock 3.0 (no backup) and 3.0.1 (no backup).

So technically 3.0.1 is just 3.0 with the SMS patch. That's all.

Those are my findings.


Note: If 3.0.1 truly did do more than fix the SMS hole, why didn't Apple release an iPod version of 3.0.1? Usually Apple releases bug fixes for all devices at the same time. Since the iPod touch doesn't have SMS, there was no need for a iPod touch 3.0.1. Just something to think about.

3.0.1 just installs better.
Click to expand...

I think to say it installs better kind of contridicts your "findings". You're saying both perform the same (for you). I don't want to get dragged in to this again, but everyones situation is different. I didn't do a clean restore before putting 3.0.1 on mine. I plugged my phone in, got the update warning, and clicked download and install. During those 5 minutes my phone went from lagfest to lag free, as did others (seriously, I'm on my iPhone now so can't be arsed to search, but go dig up that thread about "what's *new* in 3.0.1"). However, I did restore the phone before selling it and, again, it was lag free (I don't trust any wipe until I've checked it myself). I really don't see why you even "investigated" it or claim that some peoples experiences are false, I mean, why the hell would I or anyone else claiming to have a smoother version of 3.x make it up and post it in a forum? Again, I'm not trying to have a go, you just need to understand that this laggy 3.0.1 is not happening to everyone, no matter how much testing you do. And I never said 3.0.1 was more than an SMS fix, but it cured the horrible juddering when flicking between pages of apps, when typing, and when opening apps. Coincidence or not, that's just the way it was for me, a few friends, the other people that noticed it in that 3.0.1 thread, and apparently Eso as well.

Anyway, back to the point at hand. Correct, Apple does have 2 types of hardware to deal with now. All the more reason for it to take longer for them to get this version (made to be released with the new phone remember, maybe they ran out of time?) running as it should on all phones no matter what the upgrade/install process, right?

Edit- decided I could be arsed.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/756896/
 
jayenh said:
Anyway, back to the point at hand. Correct, Apple does have 2 types of hardware to deal with now. All the more reason for it to take longer for them to get this version (made to be released with the new phone remember, maybe they ran out of time?) running as it should on all phones no matter what the upgrade/install process, right?

Edit- decided I could be arsed.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/756896/
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with the whole 2 hardware thing. But still, that doesn't mean Apple should ditch other iPhone customers. If else, all they would be accomplishing is getting a lot of people who buy the 3G or have the 3G and 1st Gen angry by having a continuous lag software. It defeats the purposed of "it just works" and "wow" factors.

Apple should really consider trimming and optimizing the next OS, rather than feature bloat it. A break from features would be fine, a go under the hood is a great stepping stone.
 
jayenh said:
I think to say it installs better kind of contridicts your "findings". You're saying both perform the same (for you). I don't want to get dragged in to this again, but everyones situation is different. I didn't do a clean restore before putting 3.0.1 on mine. I plugged my phone in, got the update warning, and clicked download and install. During those 5 minutes my phone went from lagfest to lag free, as did others (seriously, I'm on my iPhone now so can't be arsed to search, but go dig up that thread about "what's *new* in 3.0.1"). However, I did restore the phone before selling it and, again, it was lag free (I don't trust any wipe until I've checked it myself). I really don't see why you even "investigated" it or claim that some peoples experiences are false, I mean, why the hell would I or anyone else claiming to have a smoother version of 3.x make it up and post it in a forum? Again, I'm not trying to have a go, you just need to understand that this laggy 3.0.1 is not happening to everyone, no matter how much testing you do. And I never said 3.0.1 was more than an SMS fix, but it cured the horrible juddering when flicking between pages of apps, when typing, and when opening apps. Coincidence or not, that's just the way it was for me, a few friends, the other people that noticed it in that 3.0.1 thread, and apparently Eso as well.

Anyway, back to the point at hand. Correct, Apple does have 2 types of hardware to deal with now. All the more reason for it to take longer for them to get this version (made to be released with the new phone remember, maybe they ran out of time?) running as it should on all phones no matter what the upgrade/install process, right?

Edit- decided I could be arsed.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/756896/
Click to expand...

I know that 3.0.1 fixed the BAD lag, but 3.0.1 is far from perfectly lag free. Yes, it fixed the juddering but that also could have been fixed by simply choosing "Reset all Settings" from the Settings app or by setting it up as a new phone. Seriously, that removed most of the lag.

What I was trying to say was... 3.0.1's lag is the same as a clean 3.0 install. That's all.

Also, I'd like for you to participate in a quick experiment for me please. (this goes for anyone who wants to check it out).

Open the app "Voice Memos". Watch carefully as it starts. Do you see the icons fly away in the background or does the startup screen just pop up? Watch carefully and then look at the movie files I made.

File 1: http://web.me.com/thespaz/AppLaunch1.mp4
File 2: http://web.me.com/thespaz/AppLaunch2.mp4

Now, when you launched "Voice Memos", did the animation look like File 1 or File 2?

Note: If you can't tell the difference between the 2 movies I posted, then that's probably why you think your iPhone has no lag.

Please post back your findings. Please watch carefully and compare them. I'm begging you to try to make this test worth something. Thank you. I'm not trying to be an ******... I just wanna make sure everyone can understand the type of abnormality I'm seeing because honestly my girlfriend couldn't tell the difference, but my brother could.

AppLaunch1.mp4 is the way apps are supposed to launch and AppLaunch2.mp4 is the stutter where the background icons don't fly away.

Edit: It's a lot worse when playing music too. Try playing music and opening any app... it's terrible... you don't see the icons fly away. Also, try opening Notes or Mail... they do the same thing. Some apps don't do it though, but a lot of times the effect is choppy.
 
UngratefulNinja said:
But why does it matter if apps fly or disappear? Why does anyone so deeply care that they're insistent that everyone else acknowledge it too?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if you don't care about the lag issue. He's just asking a question to try to explain why he thinks there is lag. Just ignore the question if you don't think there is an issue.

Edit: I should add that before I reset all settings, my voice memo used to act like the 2nd movie, so there is some difference. Does it bother me as much as TheSpaz? No. However, my iPhone does run much more snappier now.
 
I tried the animations you posted. I don't get it. What am I suppose to be seeing? They look the same. I saw more of a difference with the other animations you posted in the the thread that got locked.

In my opinion, fly away animations that don't responded as 2.2.1 might be annoying to some people, but until you pointed it out I never noticed. I still don't notice. I click on app and what I expect to see is the app open in a reasonable amount of time. Of course my reasonable amount of time might not match others expectations. I am not looking for fly away icons, because frankly, I did not know that was a critical feature.

Moreover, if your using fly away icons as indication of lag, I'd say that is a poor indicator. The true test is to run a debug program that can give number in seconds, tenths of seconds, hundreds of seconds that can show irrefutably that 2.2.1 apps open faster than 3.x apps.

(PS Word to the wise, if you want to keep your friends and your girlfriend, stop bugging them about fly away icons, I get the impression from your posts that you may be going overboard.)
 
sinsin07 said:
I tried the animations you posted. I don't get it. What am I suppose to be seeing? They look the same. I saw more of a difference with the other animations you posted in the the thread that got locked.

In my opinion, fly away animations that don't responded as 2.2.1 might be annoying to some people, but until you pointed it out I never noticed. I still don't notice. I click on app and what I expect to see is the app open in a reasonable amount of time. Of course my reasonable amount of time might not match others expectations. I am not looking for fly away icons, because frankly, I did not know that was a critical feature.

Moreover, if your using fly away icons as indication of lag, I'd say that is a poor indicator. The true test is to run a debug program that can give number in seconds, tenths of seconds, hundreds of seconds that can show irrefutably that 2.2.1 apps open faster than 3.x apps.

(PS Word to the wise, if you want to keep your friends and your girlfriend, stop bugging them about fly away icons, I get the impression from your posts that you may be going overboard.)
Click to expand...

Any type of stuttering in animations is lag to me. The apps don't launch slower than 2.2.1, the animation is just screwed up. I think it *looks* sloppy and should be fixed. I'm a very, very visual guy. I'm really interested in graphics and graphics performance. I even put a ATI Radeon 4870 in my Mac Pro to get the best possible gaming experience.

I *do* realize that some people don't give a crap about what the animations look like, but I do. Apple is usually very good at giving the user a GOOD presentation.... the fact of the matter is... 3.0's visuals aren't as silky as those of 2.2.1. I have 2 iPhones here... I can test them side by side.

Also, as you may or may not know, I have a very sharp attention to detail. I can't help it... it's part of my job at work. I work in the graphics industry (go figure right).
 
TheSpaz said:
Any type of stuttering in animations is lag to me. The apps don't launch slower than 2.2.1, the animation is just screwed up. I think it *looks* sloppy and should be fixed. I'm a very, very visual guy. I'm really interested in graphics and graphics performance. I even put a ATI Radeon 4870 in my Mac Pro to get the best possible gaming experience.

I *do* realize that some people don't give a crap about what the animations look like, but I do. Apple is usually very good at giving the user a GOOD presentation.... the fact of the matter is... 3.0's visuals aren't as silky as those of 2.2.1. I have 2 iPhones here... I can test them side by side.

Also, as you may or may not know, I have a very sharp attention to detail. I can't help it... it's part of my job at work. I work in the graphics industry (go figure right).
Click to expand...

You have a sharp attention to detail? I'd have never guessed. :)
 
Why would they bother trying to optimize their software for old outdated hardware. They're in the business of selling products. They want you to update to the latest and fastest new model.
More ram, faster processor, more storage, new features etc...
I dont think they'll bother optimizing the 2G and 3G models any more.
 
Applejuiced said:
Why would they bother trying to optimize their software for old outdated hardware. They're in the business of selling products. They want you to update to the latest and fastest new model.
More ram, faster processor, more storage, new features etc...
I dont think they'll bother optimizing the 2G and 3G models any more.
Click to expand...

You really think that? With all the 3G's out there, you think Apple is just going to abandon all those users and piss them off. I think not.
 
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