iPhone SE 4 Case Corroborates iPhone 14-Like Design Rumors

[deconstruct60]

2025? Why the delay? This should be out now! Maybe Apple's products are good because of the maturation process but I think in some instances, like this, they're shooting themselves in the foot. The iPhone this will replace is OLD tech.

The SE hasn't been about "old tech" it has been about lower bill-of-materials (BOM) tech. (yes, that often strongly correlates to 'old' but it isn't necessarily more affordable). Apple still wants their normal margins at the lower price point.

First, Apple is trying to maximally squeeze the costs out. for example.

6.1-Inch iPhone SE 4 OLED Panel Likely to Be Supplied by China's BOE

Apple supplier BOE has taken the lead in becoming the OLED panel supplier for the fourth-generation iPhone SE, IT Home reports. Samsung Display,...

www.macrumors.com

Second, (again related to costs) rumors are they are targeting the SE4 to be tightly coupled to the Apple cellular modem. So if the modem slides on deployment the SE4 slides on deployment. Pretty good chance the first modem won't be as good as Qualcomm's best modem ( so bleeding edge iPhone updates will continue to get that). Apple needs to put their modem into something that they can get out into the field in large numbers. An iPad placement would be more highly limited than the SE4. Plus, Apple can shift any Qualcomm '> $400 tax' over to offsetting the component costs increase ( bigger screen , FaceID infrastructure , etc. )

MacRumors Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy iPhone, Mac, iPad

This page provides a product summary for each Apple model. The intent is to provide our best recommendations regarding current product cycles, and to provide a summary of currently available rumors for each model. This page is based on rumors and speculation and we provide no guarantee to its...

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The original SE started out at $399

iPhone SE and 9.7-Inch iPad Pro Now Available for Order

Apple is now accepting orders for the iPhone SE and the 9.7-inch iPad Pro through its online storefront and through the Apple Store app. Orders are...

www.macrumors.com

but by SE3 had slid up to $429

Apple Announces New iPhone SE With A15 Bionic and 5G Connectivity

At its "Peek Performance" event, Apple today announced the third-generation iPhone SE, featuring the A15 Bionic chip, improved battery life,...

www.macrumors.com

Going to even more costly components could that price slide up to $469-499 . The major problem there is that it would get too close to the n-2 iPhone that is being sold in its third year also. SE1 -> SE2 was about 4 years. SE2 + 4 year would be 2024. However, if the cellular modem hiccups that could easily slide into 2025.


So until Apple can squeeze out their BOM target costs out of the phone ... it is probably not coming. The SE3 is a 'refresh' that is only 2 years old ( that is off the Intel modem issues. ). It is a viable 'buffer' to coast an extra year with some regular discounts thrown out to some low price retailers/service providers to keep the product moving at a "lower threshold" limit to keep them interested. .

Apple isn't going to cry many tears if folks in calendar year Q4 buy more iPhone 14's than SE3's. And if the SE4 is going to be a "more affordable" 14 , they are reducing fratricide now while the 14 is still in 'n-1' status.



P.S. The SE4 + Modem connection.

Kuo: Apple-Designed 5G Modem for iPhones to Debut in 2025

Apple plans to use its own modem chip for iPhones starting in 2025, according to information shared today by supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo. He...

www.macrumors.com

[ Even if Apple decoupled them because modem was super-duper off track that would slide the whole thing backwards as a late replacement for a Qualcomm would still require another validation effort that would take time. Unlikely for a relatively low cost device that they were running parallel , highly overlapping development tracks for both modems.

I suspect that SE4 will also lack mmWave 5G like the SE3 . More so because Apple's modem just isn't going to cover it than saving RF component costs and licensing. ]

 

[nutmac]

2025? Why the delay? This should be out now! Maybe Apple's products are good because of the maturation process but I think in some instances, like this, they're shooting themselves in the foot. The iPhone this will replace is OLD tech.

iPhone 14.

iPhone 14 sells for $699 so if iPhone SE 4 is priced at $429-499 price point, it would seriously impact Apple's ability to get rid of the inventory, especially since iPhone SE 4 is expected to be better than iPhone 14 in some areas, such as USB-C, A16 processor, and 48MP main camera.

Obviously, SE 4 would be also worse than iPhone 14 in some areas, such as not having ultrawide camera lens and maybe features like emergency SOS and roadside assistance via satellite, crash detection, and lower spec'd OLED (625 vs. 800 nits).

 

[deconstruct60]

exactly. the media and apple keep saying the "people don't want a small phone".

People don't want a gimped small phone.

if the iPhone 12 mini and 13 mini came with high refresh display and 1TB I'd still be using them. I had to get the 15 pro to get the 1TB and nice screen. I don't want a larger phone but the pro is the smallest I can get with the specs I want.

Higher refresh is very likely going to use more battery. A smaller phone has less battery to start relaitve to a larger phone of similar thickness.

It is myth that "even higher small stuff" will sell in larger volume. The MacBook Air initially took that stance. Folks were supposedly paying 'extra' for more thinness . The major volume didn't come for the MBA until it swapped places with the MacBook (i.e., took a lower price point. ) .

A "mini Pro" would sell even less than the regular Mini did. The "But I would have bought it" isn't material. It is what the market would buy, not individual corner cases. The plain Mini if anything was priced too high ( as to keep away from the 'n-1' and 'n-2' offerings that Apple also wanted to sell in substantive numbers. Not the other side of the nominal iPhone price point. ) .

 

[Aoligei]

Higher refresh is very likely going to use more battery. A smaller phone has less battery to start relaitve to a larger phone of similar thickness.

It is myth that "even higher small stuff" will sell in larger volume. The MacBook Air initially took that stance. Folks were supposedly paying 'extra' for more thinness . The major volume didn't come for the MBA until it swapped places with the MacBook (i.e., took a lower price point. ) .

A "mini Pro" would sell even less than the regular Mini did. The "But I would have bought it" isn't material. It is what the market would buy, not individual corner cases. The plain Mini if anything was priced too high ( as to keep away from the 'n-1' and 'n-2' offerings that Apple also wanted to sell in substantive numbers. Not the other side of the nominal iPhone price point. ) .

iPad mini is also a good example of mini doesn’t sell well. The fact that Apple doesn’t update mini regularly indicates sales aren’t that good

 

[deconstruct60]

iPad mini is also a good example of mini doesn’t sell well. The fact that Apple doesn’t update mini regularly indicates sales aren’t that good

Doesn't sell well because a mismatched product or doesn't sell well because the sales tactics and marketing are off?
A very large chunk of iPhone sales comes through the cellular service providers ( direct sales by Apple is not most of the Phone volume.). Which major providers provided just as high (or better) deals for the Mini as opposed the regular or Pro models? Where are the add-on incentives targeted? If it is "upgrade service and get a new 'Pro' " are the mini sales going to go up or down?

The fundamental fact is that iPhone Plus didn't sell all that well either. It was the opposite screen size move than the Mini and it also was not a barn burner. Again does it get incentives ? The fratricide aspects of the pricing in the overall line up is what? Apple has their 'favorite' models they want to push in the iPhone past and put their fingers on the scale.

The Mini was not going to outsell the plain iPhone , but Apple's marketing/sales tactics tends to suppress the mini sales smaller than what the market actually is/was. One of the major objectives is to sell essentially same phone for 3+ years but make small tweaks to make it be "new" ( e.g., n-1 , n-2 sales repricing).

 

[Aoligei]

Doesn't sell well because a mismatched product or doesn't sell well because the sales tactics and marketing are off?
A very large chunk of iPhone sales comes through the cellular service providers ( direct sales by Apple is not most of the Phone volume.). Which major providers provided just as high (or better) deals for the Mini as opposed the regular or Pro models? Where are the add-on incentives targeted? If it is "upgrade service and get a new 'Pro' " are the mini sales going to go up or down?

The fundamental fact is that iPhone Plus didn't sell all that well either. It was the opposite screen size move than the Mini and it also was not a barn burner. Again does it get incentives ? The fratricide aspects of the pricing in the overall line up is what? Apple has their 'favorite' models they want to push in the iPhone past and put their fingers on the scale.

The Mini was not going to outsell the plain iPhone , but Apple's marketing/sales tactics tends to suppress the mini sales smaller than what the market actually is/was. One of the major objectives is to sell essentially same phone for 3+ years but make small tweaks to make it be "new" ( e.g., n-1 , n-2 sales repricing).

If anything m, Plus model probably outsell mini by healthy margin.

Let’s suppose to have mini Pro, would cellular providers push mini pro? Probably not, because the mini is always in awkward price point. Unless there is big enough price difference, it will always fail.

In contrast, there is big price difference between Pro Max and regular Plus. A person wants Pro Max screen size but can’t afford Pro Max will naturally go toward Plus. But if you replace Plus with mini, the same personal will just go for regular iPhone, but not mini.

 

[elfxmilhouse]

Higher refresh is very likely going to use more battery. A smaller phone has less battery to start relaitve to a larger phone of similar thickness.

It is myth that "even higher small stuff" will sell in larger volume. The MacBook Air initially took that stance. Folks were supposedly paying 'extra' for more thinness . The major volume didn't come for the MBA until it swapped places with the MacBook (i.e., took a lower price point. ) .

A "mini Pro" would sell even less than the regular Mini did. The "But I would have bought it" isn't material. It is what the market would buy, not individual corner cases. The plain Mini if anything was priced too high ( as to keep away from the 'n-1' and 'n-2' offerings that Apple also wanted to sell in substantive numbers. Not the other side of the nominal iPhone price point. ) .

yea I don't mind the battery life hit with the smaller phone. I just want something that fits in every pocket without taking up the entire volume.

 

[elfxmilhouse]

A miniature phone with high end spec selling $100 dollar less than Pro.

Current iPhone 15 Pro is $999USD. Let’s see, if there is iPhone 16 Pro mini, Apple would sell $899 or Apple would sell it for $999 and bump iPhone 16 Pro to $1099 and iPhone Pro Max to $1199.

Based on history, it will be latter. Now, for $100 dollar more, one gets better larger display, probably better camera, way better battery endurance. Why would anyone go for $999 iPhone 16 Mini? I guess you want it and some ppl in the forum maybe want it. But who does iPhone 16 mini targeting and how big the target audience is?

If mini iPhone failed with regular version why do you think mini Pro iPhone will be successful?

larger is not "better". I'm saying I want the same display tech in the smaller size. any camera is fine, I don't need the best in the range. I am okay with a battery life hit for a smaller phone. I am not trying to break the rules of physics.

I'm saying that the people who wanted a pro mini phone are being lumped into the "not wanting mini phone" category when you only offer and take away the gimped small phone. we didn't buy the small phone because of the non pro specs, not because it was small. my frustration is that small and lower spec are being tied together.

 

[deevey]

iPad mini is also a good example of mini doesn’t sell well. The fact that Apple doesn’t update mini regularly indicates sales aren’t that good

There really has not been any need to update the mini. It's STILL one processor generation ahead of the regular iPad despite being a year older and honestly I think they should keep it as is until they update both iPads to the same spec.

They went balls out with it and it got stuck in some out-of-place in limbo somewhere between 10th and Air territory. Priced according to spec IMHO, but unappealing to the mass audience of the original poor-mans-mini who just wanted an iPad in a smaller form factor at perhaps a slightly lower price than the full-size model.

The iPhone mini was the same - most mini advocates simply wanted a decent spec small phone at reasonable price. instead we got a flagship phone at double what we were willing to pay.

 

[du57in]

At least one company is already selling cases...

https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhoneSE/comments/1btyb3h

 

[deconstruct60]

There really has not been any need to update the mini. It's STILL one processor generation ahead of the regular iPad despite being a year older and honestly I think they should keep it as is until they update both iPads to the same spec.

The Mini has a P3 and Antireflective coating screen like the iPad Air. Apple really isn't pairing it up as the 'smaller screen version' to the 'plain' iPad.

The other issue is that the iPad Mini has fallen into a 'every 3 year' cycle. It is pretty close to just being a 'hobby product'. One reason the Min got an A15 is that it was going to back into Rip van Winkle mode again for another 3 years. By the end of those 3 years, the A15 wouldn't be so "newer".

If you look at the 9th gen that Apple is selling underneath the 10th gen , 'plain' iPad, it is almost constantly on sale at $50-100 to be viable. Apple has a 'more affordable than a 10th gen" iPad ... it is the 9th gen.

They went balls out with it and it got stuck in some out-of-place in limbo somewhere between 10th and Air territory. Priced according to spec IMHO, but unappealing to the mass audience of the original poor-mans-mini who just wanted an iPad in a smaller form factor at perhaps a slightly lower price than the full-size model.

Apple does not seem to be chasing the old Nexus 7 and Android 8-9" models with the Mini. There appears to be some kind of business niche ( inventory control , electric checklist , maps , walk-around-eManual , etc. ) that they churn out something periodically for about as regularly as a depreciation schedule would write the previously bought iPad Mini down to zero. Whatever extra 'consumer' iPad fall out they get is gravy, but it isn't particularly a focus.

It wasn't as much "balls out" for performance as longer length of support until next upgrade.

The iPhone mini was the same - most mini advocates simply wanted a decent spec small phone at reasonable price. instead we got a flagship phone at double what we were willing to pay.

The Mini is similar in that it was placed toward the crowded middle of the line up between iPhone N and the n-1/n-2 models. But not as much while the SE was about as small and had more affordable pricing. It was whether there were two smaller phones or not.

 

[subjonas]

I’ve been an iPhone SE user for the last seven years, with SE1 and SE3. But I guess I’m not the target market for the SE line because price has never been the draw for me. What I actually want is 1) a small iPhone 2) with the best technology possible and 3) with Touch ID. But that phone hasn’t actually existed for me since iPhone 5S. So since then I moved over from flagship to the SE line, because although I had to make a compromise on best technology, of my three criteria, that was the one compromise I was most willing to make. I was still a happy camper as long as I had small size and Touch ID and good enough technology, which I had with my SE1. With my SE3 though, I had to make an additional compromise on size, after which I became a grumpier user, but all around it is mostly tolerable. But with this rumored SE4, it will completely remove any reason for me to get an SE. So if I stick with iPhone, I’ll be moving back to flagship and will be getting the smaller pro. But with huge size and no Touch ID, I’ll be far from a happy camper, but unfortunately there will likely be no better options out there. It just hasn’t been good times for phones for someone like me, and it’s only getting worse.

And no, folding phones or smart watches don’t fix the problem. AR glasses might, but that’s a long ways off.

 

[B4U]

They could have just reuse the 13 mini body with some internal changes instead of making a new body for the lower priced SE. 🥲

 

[TruthAboveAllElse]

iPhone mini doesn't exist anymore. SE is what you buy if you want a small cheap device.

This is why the mini failed.

It was never a cheap device. It was the smaller version of the regular iPhone. People seem to equate size of phone with price for some reason.

The SE was never meant to be a small phone. It's just an older design. It has happened to be smaller because older designs were smaller.

 

[Aoligei]

There really has not been any need to update the mini. It's STILL one processor generation ahead of the regular iPad despite being a year older and honestly I think they should keep it as is until they update both iPads to the same spec.

They went balls out with it and it got stuck in some out-of-place in limbo somewhere between 10th and Air territory. Priced according to spec IMHO, but unappealing to the mass audience of the original poor-mans-mini who just wanted an iPad in a smaller form factor at perhaps a slightly lower price than the full-size model.

The iPhone mini was the same - most mini advocates simply wanted a decent spec small phone at reasonable price. instead we got a flagship phone at double what we were willing to pay.

Apple used to update iPad mini regularly yearly, then time between releases gets gradually longer. It took Apple 4 whole year to update iPad mini 4 to Mini 5 and the current iPad mini is only 2 years old. By the time iPad mini get refreshed again 2 years down the road, assuming Apple is still interested doing mini iPad, it will be outdated.

The fact that mini updates gets slower is clear indication of low volumes products.

Apple releasd decent spef small phone at reasonable price. It was iPhone 12 and iPhone 13 mini. They have same spec with regular iPhone 12 and lower starting price, but sales was lackluster. You can certainly argue that iPhone mini starting price should be even lower, then what is the point for iPhone SE?

 

[svish]

Not expecting the new SE launch in the very near future. But will be good to have FaceID just like rest of the iPhones.

 

[foobarbaz]

The fundamental fact is that iPhone Plus didn't sell all that well either. It was the opposite screen size move than the Mini and it also was not a barn burner.

The Plus wasn't a smashing success, but it outsold the mini. And that's with the Plus being $100 more expensive, while the Mini was actually the cheaper choice.

But the obvious conclusion is that the current iPhone size is right for most people. Only a few people want larger, even fewer want smaller.

 

[Bregalad]

I've had the same style iPhone since 2014 (6, 8, SE2) and was worried that the SE4 would be too big for the pockets I usually carry my phone in. So I went to an Apple store and held my SE in its protective case up against an iPhone 14 and found that there was very little difference in size. As long as I go with a thinner case next time I should still be able to carry my phone around in a familiar way. In exchange for a little more bulk and weight I'll get way more screen real estate and battery life.

 

[deevey]

I've had the same style iPhone since 2014 (6, 8, SE2) and was worried that the SE4 would be too big for the pockets I usually carry my phone in. So I went to an Apple store and held my SE in its protective case up against an iPhone 14 and found that there was very little difference in size. As long as I go with a thinner case next time I should still be able to carry my phone around in a familiar way. In exchange for a little more bulk and weight I'll get way more screen real estate and battery life.

I had been comparing the weight and form of my Old iPhone 7 with my Wife's 12 for the past couple of years.

The weight, thickness and the fact you need to use it with both hands finally had me buying a brand new 12 Mini (which I love) for quite a bit less than the price of an SE3.

It will keep me going for the next couple of years at which time I'll be forced to upgrade to a bigger two-handed phone

Funny thing is, when anyone I meet see's the Mini they immediately want one as they've never seen one before in the flesh.

Personally I think the pandemic was as much to do with the Mini failing as anything else and by the time it was over no-one was going back to a smaller screen.

 

[Paddle1]

The SE hasn't been about "old tech" it has been about lower bill-of-materials (BOM) tech. (yes, that often strongly correlates to 'old' but it isn't necessarily more affordable). Apple still wants their normal margins at the lower price point.

First, Apple is trying to maximally squeeze the costs out. for example.

6.1-Inch iPhone SE 4 OLED Panel Likely to Be Supplied by China's BOE

Apple supplier BOE has taken the lead in becoming the OLED panel supplier for the fourth-generation iPhone SE, IT Home reports. Samsung Display,...

www.macrumors.com

Second, (again related to costs) rumors are they are targeting the SE4 to be tightly coupled to the Apple cellular modem. So if the modem slides on deployment the SE4 slides on deployment. Pretty good chance the first modem won't be as good as Qualcomm's best modem ( so bleeding edge iPhone updates will continue to get that). Apple needs to put their modem into something that they can get out into the field in large numbers. An iPad placement would be more highly limited than the SE4. Plus, Apple can shift any Qualcomm '> $400 tax' over to offsetting the component costs increase ( bigger screen , FaceID infrastructure , etc. )

MacRumors Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy iPhone, Mac, iPad

This page provides a product summary for each Apple model. The intent is to provide our best recommendations regarding current product cycles, and to provide a summary of currently available rumors for each model. This page is based on rumors and speculation and we provide no guarantee to its...

buyersguide.macrumors.com

The original SE started out at $399

iPhone SE and 9.7-Inch iPad Pro Now Available for Order

Apple is now accepting orders for the iPhone SE and the 9.7-inch iPad Pro through its online storefront and through the Apple Store app. Orders are...

www.macrumors.com

but by SE3 had slid up to $429

Apple Announces New iPhone SE With A15 Bionic and 5G Connectivity

At its "Peek Performance" event, Apple today announced the third-generation iPhone SE, featuring the A15 Bionic chip, improved battery life,...

www.macrumors.com

Going to even more costly components could that price slide up to $469-499 . The major problem there is that it would get too close to the n-2 iPhone that is being sold in its third year also. SE1 -> SE2 was about 4 years. SE2 + 4 year would be 2024. However, if the cellular modem hiccups that could easily slide into 2025.


So until Apple can squeeze out their BOM target costs out of the phone ... it is probably not coming. The SE3 is a 'refresh' that is only 2 years old ( that is off the Intel modem issues. ). It is a viable 'buffer' to coast an extra year with some regular discounts thrown out to some low price retailers/service providers to keep the product moving at a "lower threshold" limit to keep them interested. .

Apple isn't going to cry many tears if folks in calendar year Q4 buy more iPhone 14's than SE3's. And if the SE4 is going to be a "more affordable" 14 , they are reducing fratricide now while the 14 is still in 'n-1' status.



P.S. The SE4 + Modem connection.

Kuo: Apple-Designed 5G Modem for iPhones to Debut in 2025

Apple plans to use its own modem chip for iPhones starting in 2025, according to information shared today by supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo. He...

www.macrumors.com

[ Even if Apple decoupled them because modem was super-duper off track that would slide the whole thing backwards as a late replacement for a Qualcomm would still require another validation effort that would take time. Unlikely for a relatively low cost device that they were running parallel , highly overlapping development tracks for both modems.

I suspect that SE4 will also lack mmWave 5G like the SE3 . More so because Apple's modem just isn't going to cover it than saving RF component costs and licensing. ]

From the recent news we heard lately I'm pretty sure the Apple modem is cancelled. At least until the next SE drops anyway.

Apple to Discontinue Custom 5G Modem Development, Claim Reports

Apple is discontinuing in-house modem development after several unsuccessful attempts to perfect its own custom 5G modem chip, according to...

www.macrumors.com

Apple Extends Modem Licensing Deal With Qualcomm Through March 2027

Apple has extended its modem chip licensing agreement with Qualcomm through March 2027, Qualcomm said today during its first earnings call of 2024....

www.macrumors.com

 

[MartyvH]

So disappointing this cones with a notch instead of the island.

SE has always been about old designs. Wait for the SE 5 if you want the island.

 

[MartyvH]

Why are they making a case for a phone that is coming in over a year and hasn't been announced?

There’s something happening.

I would love an update to my 13 mini with the battery deteriorating and I’m getting tired of the narrow keyboard. I’m also starting to see lag which I never thought would happen.

I wonder if I’ve missed something. I just read all the way through the iPhone 15 specs on the Compare iPhone page and the most interesting things are Dynamic Island and that’s about all. Big deal.

The only question mark is the camera.

There’s a lot of money to be saved looking at US$624 for the SE 3 256GB instead of $1094 for the 15 256GB.