Other iPhone Upgrade Programme and potential iPhone 12 delays

[nrvna76]

You don't own the phone until all the payments are made. If you upgrade every 12 months, you never 'own' anything because you never pay anything off. You are essentially leasing at that point.

I understand the thought that anything financed is not ‘owned’, however that doesn’t mean it’s leased either.

If it was purchased on a credit card, is it owned then?

Taking it even further. I could buy every year on a credit card, and then sell every 12 months and purchase the next gen On a credit card. Would you say I never owned anything then?

 

[gadgetfreaky]

You don't own the phone until all the payments are made. If you upgrade every 12 months, you never 'own' anything because you never pay anything off. You are essentially leasing at that point.

this is just more bad info from you.

you 100% own the phone whether you make payments or not. it's not a lease and its not a loan secured by the phone. you can do whatever you want with it.

if you stop making payments Tim Cook doesn't show up at your house to repo your phone.

please stop posting all this misleading bad info

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

You don't own the phone until all the payments are made. If you upgrade every 12 months, you never 'own' anything because you never pay anything off. You are essentially leasing at that point.

This is the way I view it. Those upgrading every year never actually own the phone. It’s like a lease to buy scheme with the buying being the added option. It’s different to your average contract as there is no fixed deadline and no expectation to continue with one device until it’s paid off.

 

[44267547]

this is just more bad info from you.

you 100% own the phone whether you make payments or not. it's not a lease and its not a loan secured by the phone. you can do whatever you want with it.

if you stop making payments Tim Cook doesn't show up at your house to repo your phone.

please stop posting all this misleading bad info

You can disagree with him, but he’s right. You don’t own anything until you complete making the payments. We understand that the phone carrier won’t seize your phone, but they can discontinue your service if you don’t make the necessary payments for your subscriptions/LTE needs, etc. They (The financial holder) has the control to do that, because you’re under contract for something that you agreed to pay, being you are not the sole owner until that payment has been completely fulfilled. It’s no different than any other thing else that you lease/rent in this world, if you’re making payments on something, you do not own it, the entity that provided you the financial assistance owns the product. Case in point.

 

[rui no onna]

you 100% own the phone whether you make payments or not. it's not a lease and its not a loan secured by the phone. you can do whatever you want with it.

if you stop making payments Tim Cook doesn't show up at your house to repo your phone.

The loan is from Citizen One, not Apple, so it's not Apple who'll be doing the collecting.

Pretty sure I read on the loan agreement that Citizen One has a lien on the device and has the right to repossess it if you don't meet your obligations.

 

[nrvna76]

You can disagree with him, but he’s right. You don’t own anything until you complete making the payments. We understand that the phone carrier won’t seize your phone, but they can discontinue your service if you don’t make the necessary payments for your subscriptions/LTE needs, etc. They (The financial holder) has the control to do that, because you’re under contract for something that you agreed to pay, being you are not the sole owner until that payment has been completely fulfilled. It’s no different than any other thing else that you lease/rent in this world, if you’re making payments on something, you do not own it, the entity that provided you the financial assistance owns the product. Case in point.

Geez these thread always devolve into this. How can citizens one stop my service if I don’t make my payments? They can report me to credit agencies, how do they even know who my service is through?

 

[gadgetfreaky]

The loan is from Citizen One, not Apple, so it's not Apple who'll be doing the collecting.

Pretty sure I read on the loan agreement that Citizen One has a lien on the device and has the right to repossess it if you don't meet your obligations.

No it does't say that anywhere. And that is fake.

it's not a secured loan. It's a personal loan. that's why when you lose the phone, you are still on the hook for payments.

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You can disagree with him, but he’s right. You don’t own anything until you complete making the payments. We understand that the phone carrier won’t seize your phone, but they can discontinue your service if you don’t make the necessary payments for your subscriptions/LTE needs, etc. They (The financial holder) has the control to do that, because you’re under contract for something that you agreed to pay, being you are not the sole owner until that payment has been completely fulfilled. It’s no different than any other thing else that you lease/rent in this world, if you’re making payments on something, you do not own it, the entity that provided you the financial assistance owns the product. Case in point.

Has zero to do with the carrier. There is no way for a carrier to stop service- the Apple Upgrade program is not a lease program or a carrier program. this is just garbage info.

 

[nrvna76]

No it does't say that anywhere. And that is fake.

it's not a secured loan. It's a personal loan. that's why when you lose the phone, you are still on the hook for payments.

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Has zero to do with the carrier. There is no way for a carrier to stop service- the Apple Upgrade program is not a lease program or a carrier program. this is just garbage info.

This is why I can sell my phone without doing anything with the payment plan. I can sell it because I own it. 😮

 

[rui no onna]

No it does't say that anywhere. And that is fake.

it's not a secured loan. It's a personal loan. that's why when you lose the phone, you are still on the hook for payments.

I revisited the loan documents and you're correct. The IUP is an unsecured loan. It's the one purchased through AT&T installments that have a lien.

That said, you're always on the hook for payments regardless of what happens to the device (at least until you trade it in to Apple).

 

[Phone Junky]

this is just more bad info from you.

you 100% own the phone whether you make payments or not. it's not a lease and its not a loan secured by the phone. you can do whatever you want with it.

if you stop making payments Tim Cook doesn't show up at your house to repo your phone.

please stop posting all this misleading bad info

I guess this is where you and I differ. If I don't make the payments, I stole the phone. I don't own it. I guess your definition of ownership is different than mine.

Exactly what else have I posted that is 'misleading bad info'? Just because I don't agree with your idea that IUP members are entitled to get the new iPhone on release day if Apple doesn't stick to the 12 month release cycle, doesn't make it bad info. I'm just stating the obvious from Apple's own Terms and Conditions.

1. Requirements to Upgrade.
   • Payments. You have paid the equivalent of at least twelve (12) installment payments.
   • Good Standing. Your account with Bank is in good standing under the terms of your Installment Loan.
   • AppleCare+ Plan. You have continuously maintained the AppleCare+ Plan with your Financed iPhone.
   • Physical Condition. Your Financed iPhone must be in good physical and operational condition, as determined solely by Apple or Apple’s trade-in service provider (“Trade-In Service Provider”). It must (i) power on and hold a charge; (ii) have an intact and functioning display; and (iii) cannot have any breaks or cracks.
   • Repairs and Service Replacements. Any repair or service replacement of the Financed iPhone prior to Upgrade must be done at an Apple Store, through an Apple Authorized Service Provider, or under the AppleCare+ with Theft and Loss plan.

Not fitting with your beliefs doesn't make it 'bad info'.

 

[DianaMR]

You can disagree with him, but he’s right. You don’t own anything until you complete making the payments. We understand that the phone carrier won’t seize your phone, but they can discontinue your service if you don’t make the necessary payments for your subscriptions/LTE needs, etc. They (The financial holder) has the control to do that, because you’re under contract for something that you agreed to pay, being you are not the sole owner until that payment has been completely fulfilled. It’s no different than any other thing else that you lease/rent in this world, if you’re making payments on something, you do not own it, the entity that provided you the financial assistance owns the product. Case in point.

So you’re saying you don’t own your house if you have a mortgage on it? Then why does the title have your name on it? Why does your car title have your name on it even though you make payments on it every month? A lease is a completely different animal.

 

[MisterSavage]

I've been in the iPhone upgrade program since day one. I could swear that this has happened before where a phone came out more than one year after the last one and people were unhappy they'd have to make "extra" payments on their existing phone. I can't remember what the resolution was but I was happy with it. I'll try to find it in my old emails.

 

[DianaMR]

I've been in the iPhone upgrade program since day one. I could swear that this has happened before where a phone came out more than one year after the last one and people were unhappy they'd have to make "extra" payments on their existing phone. I can't remember what the resolution was but I was happy with it. I'll try to find it in my old emails.

I remember this too even though I wasn’t in the program. I believe Apple refunded the extra payment then you could pay that towards your new phone so you would still be eligible for the program on launch the next year. There must be more people on here that experienced this that can chime in???

 

[MisterSavage]

I found it! When the program started we would get new phones in September. The first payment is always the highest (around $110) and then the rest of the payments would be around $56 a month. Back in 2017 there was a delay with releasing the iPhone X and we didn't get them until late November. It looks like they lowered the payment for the first month.

Once your new iPhone has shipped, an initial payment of $56.16 will be charged to your credit card, and a recurring monthly payment of $56.16 will be automatically charged as well.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So you’re saying you don’t own your house if you have a mortgage on it? Then why does the title have your name on it? Why does your car title have your name on it even though you make payments on it every month? A lease is a completely different animal.

Nobody owns their house outright until the mortgage is complete, you’re right. A lease is when you plan to change the product before it is paid off and make payments in the interim. Buying on finance is when you have every intention of completing the contract in full. That’s my perception of it and I’m happy to agree to disagree over the finer details

 

[gadgetfreaky]

Nobody owns their house outright until the mortgage is complete, you’re right. A lease is when you plan to change the product before it is paid off and make payments in the interim. Buying on finance is when you have every intention of completing the contract in full. That’s my perception of it and I’m happy to agree to disagree over the finer details

yep. mortgage is a case where the loan is secured by the property. you don't pay and you lose the house. the upgrade program is a personal loan tho. not secured by the phone.
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I guess this is where you and I differ. If I don't make the payments, I stole the phone. I don't own it. I guess your definition of ownership is different than mine.

Exactly what else have I posted that is 'misleading bad info'? Just because I don't agree with your idea that IUP members are entitled to get the new iPhone on release day if Apple doesn't stick to the 12 month release cycle, doesn't make it bad info. I'm just stating the obvious from Apple's own Terms and Conditions.

1. Requirements to Upgrade.
   • Payments. You have paid the equivalent of at least twelve (12) installment payments.
   • Good Standing. Your account with Bank is in good standing under the terms of your Installment Loan.
   • AppleCare+ Plan. You have continuously maintained the AppleCare+ Plan with your Financed iPhone.
   • Physical Condition. Your Financed iPhone must be in good physical and operational condition, as determined solely by Apple or Apple’s trade-in service provider (“Trade-In Service Provider”). It must (i) power on and hold a charge; (ii) have an intact and functioning display; and (iii) cannot have any breaks or cracks.
   • Repairs and Service Replacements. Any repair or service replacement of the Financed iPhone prior to Upgrade must be done at an Apple Store, through an Apple Authorized Service Provider, or under the AppleCare+ with Theft and Loss plan.

Not fitting with your beliefs doesn't make it 'bad info'.

nah it's not a secured loan or a lease. this unfortunately is a case where there are not differing opinions, it is neither of those things. yes you are entitled to an "opinion"....but this isn't that. it's a wrong fact.
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I revisited the loan documents and you're correct. The IUP is an unsecured loan. It's the one purchased through AT&T installments that have a lien.

That said, you're always on the hook for payments regardless of what happens to the device (at least until you trade it in to Apple).

yep.

 

[nrvna76]

I found it! When the program started we would get new phones in September. The first payment is always the highest (around $110) and then the rest of the payments would be around $56 a month. Back in 2017 there was a delay with releasing the iPhone X and we didn't get them until late November. It looks like they lowered the payment for the first month.

I think I remember this as well. So, maybe others are right that they would do something for IUP members. I however, don’t feel entitled to it and wouldn’t be upset with Apple if they did nothing, I would just have to recalculate if I would want to upgrade.

 

[akash.nu]

So you’re saying you don’t own your house if you have a mortgage on it? Then why does the title have your name on it? Why does your car title have your name on it even though you make payments on it every month? A lease is a completely different animal.

This is actually true. You don’t own the house until your mortgage is paid in full. That’s why bank has the power to repossess your house if you don’t keep up with the mortgage payment. It’s a secured loan and so is the case with your car.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

yep. mortgage is a case where the loan is secured by the property. you don't pay and you lose the house. the upgrade program is a personal loan tho. not secured by the phone.

Indeed, either way it’s a lease program. The lender in the iPhone upgrade case can blacklist the device if payment is defaulted on. It doesn’t really make any difference though as the end user just wants an iPhone. Whether you lease it or buy it outright, nobody cares or knows the difference unless you tell them the circumstances.

 

[MisterSavage]

I think I remember this as well. So, maybe others are right that they would do something for IUP members. I however, don’t feel entitled to it and wouldn’t be upset with Apple if they did nothing, I would just have to recalculate if I would want to upgrade.

Agreed. I did think it was nice of them to take care of us during the iPhone X launch but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for the next phone if they didn't.

 

[nrvna76]

Indeed, either way it’s a lease program. The lender in the iPhone upgrade case can blacklist the device if payment is defaulted on. It doesn’t really make any difference though as the end user just wants an iPhone. Whether you lease it or buy it outright, nobody cares or knows the difference unless you tell them the circumstances.

Nope. Not a lease, and what makes you think they are able to blacklist? Are you just assuming you know?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Nope. Not a lease, and what makes you think they are able to blacklist? Are you just assuming you know?

I see it as a lease program, but as I said I’m more than happy to agree to disagree over the finer details

 

[nrvna76]

I see it as a lease program, but as I said I’m more than happy to agree to disagree over the finer details

Im fine with that. However, I don’t think folks can ‘agree to disagree’ when you are saying the lender can blacklist the phone without any reference to back that up.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Im fine with that. However, I don’t think folks can ‘agree to disagree’ when you are saying the lender can blacklist the phone without any reference to back that up.

You can disagree with me on that second point, fine with that. My main point about the lease program was really what I was discussing anyway.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

Indeed, either way it’s a lease program. The lender in the iPhone upgrade case can blacklist the device if payment is defaulted on. It doesn’t really make any difference though as the end user just wants an iPhone. Whether you lease it or buy it outright, nobody cares or knows the difference unless you tell them the circumstances.

The lender- Citizens cannot blacklist the phone this is false.