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Absrnd

macrumors 6502a
Apr 15, 2010
915
1,671
Flatland
So this is another post and run topic ?

I see a lot of questionable posts about the "bad" iPhone-X, and in most cases it is based on feelings and assumptions, and the OP registered for just this complain topic, and never responds again :confused:

Every time something new is made/done there is always these 0.00000001% that can't stand or it makes him ill figures.
and a lot of people then trying their hardest to come up with a explanation for that cause.

I am still waiting for the first "The iPhone made me pregnant" :rolleyes:topic
 
Last edited:

newellj

macrumors G3
Oct 15, 2014
8,154
3,047
East of Eden
PWM is used everywhere. TVs, lights (LED and fluorescent), monitors and so on. For folks that are having an issue with the iPhone X does literally living in the modern world at all give you a headache?

I don't know about others, but PWM varies a great deal from case to case. My LG OLED TV doesn't bother me at all. Most of our LED lights at home don't dim with PWM (only one - and it's fine). Traditional fluorescents drive me nuts; I had the one over my desk at work removed and the others stay off until as late as possible, which unfortunately means 4pm-ish this time of year but in the summer I literally never turn them on. Looking at phone reviews, PWM implementation varies a great deal from device to device and that matters a lot.
 

Brian Drummond

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 16, 2018
3
2
Glasgow, Scotland
I'm at a complete loss as to how you came to the conclusion that the iPhone is somehow responsible for a sudden random health issue you experienced whilst driving your car.

Its possible for all screens to cause eye fatigue after staring at them for some time, but this, this is something else altogether.
I haven't concluded this at all? As someone who never suffers from headaches, I'm simply asking if anyone else has had a similar experience with this model. It's all very coincidental but it's certainly not conclusive.
 

1050792

Suspended
Oct 2, 2016
2,515
3,991
I'm having the exact same issue with my 7 Plus since iOS 11, the workaround I found was to dim the white point completely, increase the text size by 200% and disable all motions.
 

Brian Drummond

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 16, 2018
3
2
Glasgow, Scotland
So this is another post and run topic ?

I see a lot of questionable posts about the "bad" iPhone-X, and in most cases it is based on feelings and assumptions, and the OP registered for just this complain topic, and never responds again :confused:

Every time something new is made/done there is always these 0.00000001% that can't stand or it makes him ill figures.
and a lot of people then trying their hardest to come up with a explanation for that cause.

I am still waiting for the first "The iPhone made me pregnant" :rolleyes:topic
In answer to your initial question..no. Please excuse my curiosity as I'm not, what you would say.. a regular on forums so my etiquette and line of questioning may not reach the dizzy heights of what you are used to. I was simply stating a scenario then asking a question on the back of said scenario. Trying to exhaust possible causes is my objective so if it's not the phone, great, I'll move on and go try work on my percentage status.
[doublepost=1516201352][/doublepost]
If I recall correctly there was a LONG thread previously linking migraines/headaches to the iPhone X screen. Auras are a form of migraine headaches. I don't understand all the negativity in the responses. If you can't help, why bother to respond?
I think you get why I posted my question! Thank you. Didn't expect the barrage of negative stuff but then again this may be the norm on forums? Not sure.
[doublepost=1516201674][/doublepost]
Um because he has used the phone for 4 weeks, then he has a completely separate episode (which sounded fairly serious) whilst driving his car and states "I've had an iPhone for almost 10 years now and I don't ever remember them giving me head pain and discomfort like this one" - really??
Yes, really!!! Old iPhones (4) = no head discomfort , new iPhone X = head discomfort. Just trying to ascertain potential causes, that's all. This is obviously not the place to ask such minor questions that are met with such derision.
 

TonyK

macrumors 65816
May 24, 2009
1,032
148
aura migraine

Yes, that's it. My wife used that term when it happened. Not pleasant and very disconcerting as I was driving @ 55MPH at the time. Oddly, knocking wood now, I've not had another episode since. Hope I never do.

So let’s get this straight. You think he is making up the story, but on the other hand you point out the very large thread of everyone having issues regarding the phone. Seems you are contradicting yourself.

No, not making up a story. There is an issue. Trying to understand how the issue is related to the use of a specific device regardless if it is Apple, Android or Star Trek. :D

I wore regular glasses for a year. Never had a problem. I switched to prism glasses

I started off with regular glasses. Then the Army, through a stereoscope, caused me to need prisms in both lenses and worse the prisms for over a decade until one day, my eyes rejected them. Wearing the lenses with prisms caused me more issues than not. It was like a light switch; one day I needed them then the next I couldn't use them.

Same thing with caffeine. One day I could no longer tolerate caffeine and had to get off it completely. The body is an amazing thing.
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
As somebody who’s been experiencing eye strain from iPhone X I sympathize with OP and believe this was likely caused by the PWM utilized by the display.

Yeap most likely, like some people can detect the difference in ‘frames per second’ in a game, others cannot.
We are not all the same and some screens will affect people differently. The human eye was never designed to stare at a small OLED screens and still isn’t.
 

user1234

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2009
854
683
Sweden
I haven't used the X for more than a couple of minutes in a store, so I'm not going to comment specifically about it, just state that it uses PWM which precious iPhones (at least in recent years) did not.

I agree that what you experienced sound like possible migraine with aura. I've had it a couple of times and it's a horrible experience. I often get mild symptoms but a couple of times it has built up to a horrible migraine with aura with loss of sight, coordination and speech for a brief moment.

For me, symptoms are triggered by things that flicker. Some fluorescent lights has given me mild discomfort, while computer monitors and LED light bulbs with heavy PWM has given me strong symptoms. It often gets worse when I'm really tired, or getting sick with a cold, am stressed out or something.

Unfortunately OLED displays by their nature use PWM. It's very impractical or maybe even currently impossible to use analog/current dimming since there's no single backlight but rather every sub-pixel is a light source and is adjusted in brightness. This is usually done at around 240 Hz but it varies somewhat from device to device. The iPhone X is pulsed at 240 Hz.

I have also noticed that the sub-pixel arrangement can also have an effect. Pentile caused me some eye strain in the beginning before I got used to it. Some LCDs in phones have also caused me eye strain and dizziness. My HTC desire Z did that in the beginning. No problem with my Nexus 5 or 5X though. The HTC may have used PWM to dim the backlight whereas the Nexuses probably don't. I did have a Galaxy Nexus which did have an AMOLED display, but I don't remember having a problem with that other than some initial eyestrain.

In my opinion it's a shame that most new phones are getting OLED displays, because I see it as a big step back. We have finally had great LCDs in recent years, with flicker free backlights, and now we're getting flicker again with OLED. OLED also has other problems like the blue subpixels degrading faster than the red and green, giving the display a yellow tint over time. It's not obvious, but when putting a new and 2 year old device of the same type it's clearly visible.

Burn-in is another problem which is also an effect of subpixels degrading. Elements that are bright, and especially that have a lot of blue mixed in will cause the screen to age faster locally which will eventually show up as sort of faint ghost-like copy of what used to be displayed there. My Galaxy Nexus had terrible effects of this kind after a year and a half, but I'm sure the panels made today are better in this regard, but I'm still concern what it will look like after 2-3 years.

For those of us who do have a problem with this, OLED is a problem and the industry pushing hard for OLED concerns me. There's soon no good phones without it, TVs and computers will increasingly come with OLED too. I feel like more research on the effects of PWM is needed, both in general and for migraine sufferers.

I know not everyone will understand the problem, but it can be a real hassle to find a TV or phone that doesn't give symptoms, especially since it may not immediately give symptoms. And this is important to understand. It can build up over time for some, until it becomes too much and causes an aura migraine. This may be after a week, or a couple of months. Most likely it will happen after the return window has closed, because that's just the way things tend to work :D. Sometimes symptoms are immediate, at which point it's difficult to judge if it's something that need getting used to, or if it will only become worse over time. Other factors can also have a play like I mentioned above. Being extra tired, getting a cold or being stressed out for example. It can be a frustrating and expensive experience to find something that will work.

If you don't have a problem with any of this then congratulations, good for you! I just hope the industry would take this seriously for those of us who do have a problem with it, and launch LCD versions of flagship devices if they have to use OLED at all.
 

Vanilla35

macrumors 68040
Apr 11, 2013
3,344
1,453
Washington D.C.
Not sure why everyone thinks it's impossible for it to be the phone. I'd say it's very likely.

If you've ever had different experiences with various monitors or displays, specifically some of the older PWD monitors for computers then you'll know that a display by itself can definitely cause a headache.

Now whether it's strictly due to the display in technology, and therefore will always be an issue - or whether it's due to your eyes not being used to that type of display in general, and you will get accustomed to it after a few weeks; I can't say.
 

Shawn521

macrumors newbie
Feb 11, 2018
1
2
I recently purchased an X and have been using it for over 4 weeks now. Last Wednesday I had a terrifying experience whilst driving, whereby, my vision became kaleidoscopic and since then I have experienced mild dizziness, imbalance and mild head pain which resulted in me being tested for a TIA.
Thankfully all tests proved inconclusive but I feel this phone may have contributed to my experience? I've had an iPhone for almost 10 years now and I don't ever remember them giving me head pain and discomfort like this one.
Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this?
Yes I have migraines about 2-5 a month they are Daily now and apple claims to have never heard anyone say this. But yet there are a bunch of articles about it online.
 
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user1234

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2009
854
683
Sweden
Yes I have migraines about 2-5 a month they are Daily now and apple claims to have never heard anyone say this. But yet there are a bunch of articles about it online.

Isn't it interesting that tech companies always say they haven't heard about things which are widely discussed on the internet. I personally wish the OLED display craze would end already. They are only better at a couple of things but severely worse in other important areas including longevity and color accuracy degradation.
 

pgoelz

macrumors regular
Nov 20, 2017
233
90
I started off with regular glasses. Then the Army, through a stereoscope, caused me to need prisms in both lenses and worse the prisms for over a decade until one day, my eyes rejected them. Wearing the lenses with prisms caused me more issues than not. It was like a light switch; one day I needed them then the next I couldn't use them.
Slightly off topic but.... my optometrist told me that I have a very slight convergence issue (that I can easily compensate for naturally). She said that she does not like prescribing prism correction if unless the misalignment is causing other issues like headaches or double vision. The reason is that your eyes slowly compensate for the added prism to get back to their "un-corrected" alignment and as a result, you need progressively stronger and stronger prism correction. Sounds like that is what happened to you.

Paul
 
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