iPhone X iPhone X laser and eye concerns [MERGED]

[vannix]

Hello guys, it is known that the lasers in the iris scanners are harmful to the eye and the retina, they led the eye to cataract.
This is valid for example to the Samsung S8 too.

Do you think (or there is any information) about the iPhone X laser? I know it aims to the whole face and not the eye itself but...

 

[Rafterman]

Its not an iris scanner, its facial recognition and doesn't use a laser. It uses the front camera and mathematics to analyze your face.

 

[Decimotox]

Its not an iris scanner, its facial recognition and doesn't use a laser. It uses the front camera and mathematics to analyze your face.

Shhhhh don't tell him. One fewer pre-order.

 

[Vanilla35]

I was going to be looking into laser eye surgery anyway.

 

[akash.nu]

Laser inherently not bad for the eyes by the way. There are different spectrum of laser and with the consumer laser devices one needs to constantly look at it for a very long time to have any impact at all.

 

[serialiphoneuser]

The constant IR blasts will eventually cause floaters and dark spots in the vision. I would keep Face-ID turned off.

 

[44267547]

Even if the iPhone could cause potential damage to someone's eyes, there is not enough testing to prove this theory even if somebody wanted to believe that. You would have a greater chance of getting damage to your eyes from the sun, being it exposes infrared rays.

 

[vannix]

Excuse me guys... I wanted to say INFRARED and not laser!!!
Btw, unfortunately, I'm still going to buy a beautiful iPX 256gb

It was just a curiosity, as I read (on this forum) that another user was saying this, and it's easy to find related articles on google.

 

[dauthiatull]

do any of you have a clue as to how much IR you are exposed to everyday. sunlight aside virtually everything in your house and every other building emits varying amounts if IR. Own an outdoor security camera? they have huge IR blasters to illuminate the area. anyone ever go blind from a tv remote?

 

[leesweet]

Lol.... you do know heat is infrared? So most of the heat you feel is via infrared wavelengths. Step away from the sun and the radiator!

 

[Jonny2x4]

I’ve been looking online to see if anyone has any insight to possible long term effects of 30,000 IR laser beams on your eyes and face over time.

Can any provide any details to the strength of the IR lasers or the possible effects of them on your eyes over time?

This is similar to the Xbox Kinect obviously but I believe Kinect is a stronger beam.

My job is heavily dependent on good vision so I’m cautious about buying a phone with even a small chance of hurting my vision over years and years.

So mainly I am interested in the strength of the beams or if anyone has a background in how damaging IR laser technology can be on the eyes. Thanks for any help or insight! I asked Apple and they directed me to the tech specs (which I’ve already read thoroughly)

Also is the phone using IR technology the whole time you’re on it? If you unlock it and start texting, is it still shooting 30,000 dots on your face or does it turn off when you unlock?

 

[rattler]

I’m assuming the IR light is only turned on when unlocking the device otherwise it would be a drain on a battery. As for any health effects, IR wavelengths are lower in energy than visible light and will not cause any biological damage, especially from such a small/weak source as the projector on the iPhone.

 

[Starfyre]

This was one of my thoughts to, dot projector shining in your entire face and eyes. Am really happy to hear those dots are weaker than visible light, which we get exposed to all the time without any side effects.

 

[Pharmaboy]

This was one of my thoughts to, dot projector shining in your entire face and eyes. Am really happy to hear those dots are weaker than visible light, which we get exposed to all the time without any side effects.

I think laser beam infra red could be dangerous. Iris can’t operate flash reflex and so infra red vertical cavity surface-emitting laser could alterate our vision.

Apple don’t even comment on this aspect and no one knows what kind of IR they are using. It’s the reason why I won’t buy Face ID product before 2/3 years.

 

[d5aqoëp]

This thread has a valid point and Apple should come out with all little technical details.

Timmy coming out and telling us it's safe won't help.

 

[Pharmaboy]

They are using vertical cavity surface-emitting laser, wich creates 30,000 laser beams. Each time they hit our cornea, they will accelerate cataract, and retina sensors could be altered. Not as much to be noticed in one week, but after one year to Face ID hundred times a day, I think it’s a risk I don’t want to take.
I know that Apple will improve this or use another tech for iPhone XI and this is just transitional tech. The safest way should have been to make visible light face recognition and back panel Touch ID for low light situation.

It’s the same as first generation Nokia who had high energy wave emissions and caused cancer. No one cares today. So I think Dot Projector gate is here but no one will notice it before Tim will be dead.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Apple is using a vertical cavity surface-emitting laser for Face dot projector. IR could damage retina, cornea and iris. But no one will admit it or notice it. We will know in 20 years and no one will cry for bad vision from « rich » guys.

 

[unibility]

I'm sure in time I'll end up like The Wicked Witch of the West. "I'm melting. Melting. What a world. What a world. Who'd thought an IR laser like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness."

 

[avkam]

... As for any health effects, IR wavelengths are lower in energy than visible light and will not cause any biological damage, especially from such a small/weak source as the projector on the iPhone.

vs

They are using vertical cavity surface-emitting laser, wich creates 30,000 laser beams. Each time they hit our cornea, they will accelerate cataract, and retina sensors could be altered. Not as much to be noticed in one week, but after one year to Face ID hundred times a day, I think it’s a risk I don’t want to take. ...

This is exactly why we should have more data from Apple. It's unreal how little information you can find this from internet. Personally I think Apple has tested it very carefully, but this wouldn't be the first time when a new technology causes something we don't know yet.

 

[Aston441]

Yup. Zero info on the strength of the laser, which makes all the difference.

I don't beta test with my vision. Thanks.

 

[borgqueenx]

I have alot of knowledge and experience on light and lasers and trust me, it could shine at your face like this the whole day and you wouldnt know or feel a thing, and not get any kinds of effects from it over all the years of your lifetime.

 

[Costino1]

....says the people who never wear sunglasses and never wear sunscreen outside and don’t give a darn about skin cancer.

 

[techspin]

I have alot of knowledge and experience on light and lasers and trust me, it could shine at your face like this the whole day and you wouldnt know or feel a thing, and not get any kinds of effects from it over all the years of your lifetime.

Can you provide more detail? Did you study this or watch an episode of Bill Nye. I'm honestly curious to know more about IR light.

 

[borgqueenx]

Can you provide more detail? Did you study this or watch an episode of Bill Nye. I'm honestly curious to know more about IR light.

No, it was my hobby to build and construct lasers and similar so i did quite some learnings.
The IR that is being thrown into your face is like a led light. It cannot be more powerful then the back led, because the heatsink is too small and simply cant be much more brighter then the back LED. Because the light being scattered over your face like a flashlight, there is no damage done. (just like you can easily watch the back led of the device, even though its not comfortable)
Furthermore, the dot projector is even more weaker. Here is a image of a kaleidoscope of a laser: https://www.lucklaser.com/images/50mw-Green-Laser-Pointer-Kaleidoscope (2).jpg
These laser pens (wich already have a WAY bigger heatsink then in the iphone x) have maximum 200mW of power(rare though) wich is definatly harmful to the eyes, but thats ONLY if the single dot, all power combined would hit your eyes. Looking at how many dots it projects, how much power is lost by the glass in the kaleidoscope, i'd estimate every dot that hits your eyes is maximum around 0,5mW. Thats perfectly save, and thats for one of those pens. (5mW is considered save for selling at stores, >5mw is forbidden to sell in most of the world)
Because the tiny size of the iphone and the heatsink, the iphone x simply cannot be powerful enough to be 200mW. Maybe, because it runs for a smaller period of time, it can achieve ~20mW maximum, i'd say. It will then run alot of dots over your screen to measure you, just like the kaleidoscope does. So the total power that can hit your eyes because those dots and cause damage is nihil. Zero. More arguments can be made that this unlock method doesnt affect battery life much, wich makes me believe the total power of the front IR lights are even less then that 20mw.
Apple doesn't have to come up with technical details about what they use because it's not remotely possible to damage your eyes with the power used in the iPhone X leds/laser.


Tldr:
It's simply not possible with the size of the module to do any damage to your eyes. Not remotely.

 

[avkam]

No, it was my hobby to build and construct lasers and similar so i did quite some learnings. The IR that is being thrown I ..... e to do any damage to your eyes. Not remotely.

Thanks. That was good information. I really hope Apple could share this same information on their X home page.
Edit: https://1reddrop.com/2017/09/16/will-face-id-iphone-x-damage-retina/
Until someone from Apple fires down these potential problems, there will be many users that won't purchase X.