iPhone X iPhone X laser and eye concerns [MERGED]

[thevidness]

In this little video you can at least get an impression on how it operates:

Here's how the iPhone X's Face ID works https://twitter.com/verge/status/926475354373464064/video/1

 

[borgqueenx]

The front IR led seems like quite a flash, its probaly around as powerful as the back LED that IS visible to your eyes. But since you dont see that spectrum of the light, it's not annoying. Even better, find yourself a IR camera like they use at theme parks and where-ever else. (slightly glowing red lights). Those are IR leds that light up most of a whole room. You just see faintly glowing red lights. Stare into them from close, you'l see it doesn't do anything with your vision after looking back into the room or whatever. They are as well not powerful enough to do any eye damage.

I understand the worry because the word "laser" and idiotic people shining powerful lasers in pilot eyes are airports wich makes it to the news, causing lasers to sound really dangerous. And they can be. Just not in the iPhone X.

 

[Vanilla35]

The front IR led seems like quite a flash, its probaly around as powerful as the back LED that IS visible to your eyes. But since you dont see that spectrum of the light, it's not annoying. Even better, find yourself a IR camera like they use at theme parks and where-ever else. (slightly glowing red lights). Those are IR leds that light up most of a whole room. You just see faintly glowing red lights. Stare into them from close, you'l see it doesn't do anything with your vision after looking back into the room or whatever. They are as well not powerful enough to do any eye damage.

I understand the worry because the word "laser" and idiotic people shining powerful lasers in pilot eyes are airports wich makes it to the news, causing lasers to sound really dangerous. And they can be. Just not in the iPhone X.

Most people don't know how IR works in general, myself included. So you're saying even a very powerful IR light like the one you described doesn't have any effect (side effects, or damage at all) on your eyes?

 

[joeblow7777]

I made this thread a little while back regarding this: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/faceid-health-effects.2074992/

 

[Lucifer666]

one word

SUN

 

[borgqueenx]

Most people don't know how IR works in general, myself included. So you're saying even a very powerful IR light like the one you described doesn't have any effect (side effects, or damage at all) on your eyes?

Maybe if you keep staring at a IR module for hours then yeah you might get a headache? (same if you would for hours to the back LED of the iphone) But savety riscs? Not for the security camera's etc i described and hell not for the iphone X wich is way smaller. Those security camera's are not "very powerful IR light", as you described them. Plus it runs for only 2 seconds max per unlock. The risc does not exist. Plain and simple.
[doublepost=1509807284][/doublepost]

Thanks. That was good information. I really hope Apple could share this same information on their X home page.
Edit: https://1reddrop.com/2017/09/16/will-face-id-iphone-x-damage-retina/
Until someone from Apple fires down these potential problems, there will be many users that won't purchase X.

I highly doubt many people will refrain from purchasing because the laser/led.
That article you linked is using your fears for their money. If a news site publishes an article like that they better ask around.
Every person that knows stuff about wavelengths, infrared and lasers will confirm the iphone X is not even remotely close to being dangerous to your eyes or skin.

 

[haruhiko]

I think going out on a sunny day gives your eyes much more infrared than the dot projector.

 

[ah1488]

The constant IR blasts will eventually cause floaters and dark spots in the vision. I would keep Face-ID turned off.

is that for real?

Excuse me guys... I wanted to say INFRARED and not laser!!!
Btw, unfortunately, I'm still going to buy a beautiful iPX 256gb

It was just a curiosity, as I read (on this forum) that another user was saying this, and it's easy to find related articles on google.

i wonder if i can see the infrared lights with my nvg goggles

 

[unobtainium]

do any of you have a clue as to how much IR you are exposed to everyday. sunlight aside virtually everything in your house and every other building emits varying amounts if IR. Own an outdoor security camera? they have huge IR blasters to illuminate the area. anyone ever go blind from a tv remote?

On average you are exposed to zero IR lasers blasted into your eyes and face each day. The sun and security cameras are not good analogues as those are low intensity, diffuse sources.

Time will tell. I’ll be holding off.
[doublepost=1510533069][/doublepost]

Lol.... you do know heat is infrared? So most of the heat you feel is via infrared wavelengths. Step away from the sun and the radiator!

Heat is IR lasers beamed into your retina dozens of times a day? Who knew?

Honestly do some research about the actual technology in IR biometrics before posting.

 

[AbSoluTc]

The constant IR blasts will eventually cause floaters and dark spots in the vision. I would keep Face-ID turned off.

Either post a source or two, or GTFO with that nonsense.

 

[dauthiatull]

On average you are exposed to zero IR lasers blasted into your eyes and face each day. The sun and security cameras are not good analogues as those are low intensity, diffuse sources.

Time will tell. I’ll be holding off.
[doublepost=1510533069][/doublepost]
Heat is IR lasers beamed into your retina dozens of times a day? Who knew?

Honestly do some research about the actual technology in IR biometrics before posting.

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared
Sunlight, at an effective temperature of 5,780 kelvins, is composed of near thermal-spectrum radiation that is slightly more than half infrared. At zenith, sunlight provides an irradiance of just over 1 kilowatt per square meter at sea level. Of this energy, 527 watts is infrared radiation, 445 watts is visible light, and 32 watts is ultraviolet radiation.[10] Nearly all the infrared radiation in sunlight is near infrared, shorter than 4 micrometers.

527 watts of infrared radiation is not low intensity

 

[unobtainium]

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared
Sunlight, at an effective temperature of 5,780 kelvins, is composed of near thermal-spectrum radiation that is slightly more than half infrared. At zenith, sunlight provides an irradiance of just over 1 kilowatt per square meter at sea level. Of this energy, 527 watts is infrared radiation, 445 watts is visible light, and 32 watts is ultraviolet radiation.[10] Nearly all the infrared radiation in sunlight is near infrared, shorter than 4 micrometers.

527 watts of infrared radiation is not low intensity

per square meter...

How would you expect the iPhone’s IR lasers to work in daylight if they were drowned out by IR from sunlight?

 

[unobtainium]

Anybody feel like reading the section on IR scanners? I don’t have time at the moment...

http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/978-3-642-12595-9.pdf#page=129

Edit: p. 121ff

 

[bizack]

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared
Sunlight, at an effective temperature of 5,780 kelvins, is composed of near thermal-spectrum radiation that is slightly more than half infrared. At zenith, sunlight provides an irradiance of just over 1 kilowatt per square meter at sea level. Of this energy, 527 watts is infrared radiation, 445 watts is visible light, and 32 watts is ultraviolet radiation.[10] Nearly all the infrared radiation in sunlight is near infrared, shorter than 4 micrometers.

527 watts of infrared radiation is not low intensity

Always good to omit information, specifically this sentence right below your quote:
"On the surface of Earth, at far lower temperatures than the surface of the Sun, almost all thermal radiation consists of infrared in mid-infrared region, much longer than in sunlight. Of these natural thermal radiation processes only lightning and natural fires are hot enough to produce much visible energy, and fires produce far more infrared than visible-light energy."

 

[HylianKnight]

The constant IR blasts will eventually cause floaters and dark spots in the vision. I would keep Face-ID turned off.

Source?

 

[Pharmaboy]

The fact is that there is no any study available about IR VSCEL long term effects on eye structures and for now Apple is just saying “we are class 1 laser product and so it’s ok”.
So it’s about the same than flashing your eyes with class 1 gadget laser pointers in your eyes every day thousands time a day. We’ll see what happens but I’ll wait before buying Face ID based products. Nobody today would spend 7H a day on mobile phone conversations without earbuds. It’s gonna be the same in 5 years for near visible infrared VSCEL beams. At this time Face ID will be a passive face recognition system with juste one camera sensor.

 

[Newtons Apple]

GOOD GRIEF!

This is going to cause more confusion that how to take care of your battery.

 

[maganhard]

The constant IR blasts will eventually cause floaters and dark spots in the vision. I would keep Face-ID turned off.

Unfortunately, I am experiencing exactly this - one big dark(ish) spot that flashes when blinking in my right eye, after a week of intensive use of FaceID. I switched it off now and covered the dot projector with a sticker.

Does anyone know about the long-term effects of this, i.e. will the spot go away over time? It’s pretty much the same after 12 hours of no FaceID usage. I am getting a little worried.

 

[RedKite]

It wouldn't be anything to worry about. Sure the less infrared light hitting your eye is better but you're not going to eliminate that entirely.

 

[avkam]

Unfortunately, I am experiencing exactly this - one big dark(ish) spot that flashes when blinking in my right eye, after a week of intensive use of FaceID. I switched it off now and covered the dot projector with a sticker.

Does anyone know about the long-term effects of this, i.e. will the spot go away over time? It’s pretty much the same after 12 hours of no FaceID usage. I am getting a little worried.

You may have this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_serous_retinopathy
Also it’s possible that Face ID has nothing do with this. Maybe. I still believe that X’s dot projector is too low powered to cause any harm.