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pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
I’ve got 32 on a 2015 iMac and I’ve never got near 16 let alone 32 ever

Im the epitome of a non-power user ?

I did with just office stuff on the 2021 MacBook Pro but it was due to the Monterey memory leaks. They've been fixed so I don't get up to 32 GB. I don't run my production stuff on that system unless I'm mobile, though. So it will get used when I travel.

I have 32 GB RAM and have 27 GB in use right now on my iMac. RAM is cheap on the iMacs, though, and it's nice to have it, particularly for older systems.
 
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ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
As mentioned I predictably consume about 30gb, give or take. The unknown for me is how it translates between the Intel and M1 platform.
If that's the case, and assuming your current machine has 32GB of RAM, then don't get 16GB. RAM is RAM, you will need as much as you need. It's unfortunate that during the early days of M1, many youtubers are spreading hoax about how 8GB RAM in M1 magically "equals" to 16GB in intel.

If I were you, I would at least match my old machine (eg. 32GB) or more (for future as these things are no longer user upgradeable). So maybe budget yourself for 64GB RAM.
 

grouch

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 20, 2011
285
274
New York
If that's the case, and assuming your current machine has 32GB of RAM, then don't get 16GB. RAM is RAM, you will need as much as you need. It's unfortunate that during the early days of M1, many youtubers are spreading hoax about how 8GB RAM in M1 magically "equals" to 16GB in intel.

If I were you, I would at least match my old machine (eg. 32GB) or more (for future as these things are no longer user upgradeable). So maybe budget yourself for 64GB RAM.
Yeah exactly, the misinformation that overly excited youtubers were spreading around has caused a lot of confusion. I'm not in a rush to upgrade - my system is going on 9 years old but for my needs it still feels brand new. The mac studio is a huge disappointment so far and the m1 mini is kinda worthless for me at this point with 16gb memory. A piece of software I use, TotalSpaces, isn't ready for M1/Monterey anyway.
 
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wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2020
2,932
3,211
SF Bay Area
Just because your current machine "uses" 30GB RAM, doesn't mean it needs 30GB RAM. Unused RAM is wasted RAM, so MacOS tries to "use" as much as it can, even if just for caching things.
I suggest take out some RAM out of your current machine (if you can) and see how it does.

You can also force MacOS to allocate a portion of your memory to a dummy process with the following command:

sudo memory_pressure -p 50 -s 100

Which allocates memory to process "memory_pressure" until 50% remains free, for 100 seconds. You can see how this affects your usage (change 50 and 100 to whatever you like)
 
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ctjack

macrumors 68000
Mar 8, 2020
1,565
1,575
youre kidding right? so this is the power of the almighty M1 chip?
CPU alone is quite powerful. Execution is lacking: 8GB is not enough + OS is very bad at cleaning the cache + memory leaks on latest 2 MacOS(bigsur and monterey).
Just get 16GB and you will have no problems like mine.
 
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coolerkid

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2015
282
311
I have a 32GB iMac and I'm constantly running out of memory. I spend so much time each day quitting programs and trying to conserve memory. I recently got a M1 MacBook Air 8GB. I figured I'd try it out and see if it could handle my needs, since I only really use it when traveling. To my surprise even when running the same workload as my iMac I never max this thing out. Even when the RAM is full it never complains and asks me to quit programs or experiences any slow down. It's quite amazing. You'd have to try it out to see for sure, but I'd say it's very likely that 16GB will be enough. I plan to replace my iMac with a Mac mini. If a new mini comes out soon with a 32GB option, I'd probably buy that just to play it safe, but if not I'd feel pretty confident getting 16GB.
 
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4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,035
3,785
So Calif
Remember, unified RAM is way different than socketed DDR RAM.

Unified RAM works way faster and more efficient than Intel based RAM.

My 8GB base M1 Mac Mini ran circles around the best CTO 2018 Intel Mini w/ 64GB DDR i7 and without the heat, fan noise or spinning beach balls.
 
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phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
4,515
1,467
Remember, unified RAM is way different than socketed DDR RAM.

Unified RAM works way faster and more efficient than Intel based RAM.

My 8GB base M1 Mac Mini ran circles around the best CTO 2018 Intel Mini w/ 64GB DDR i7 and without the heat, fan noise or spinning beach balls.
There certainly is worth merit in saying how unified is more efficient where volatile memory is concerned but it is also important to understand how it is being managed. One might argue that allowing web pages free access and fill up 2-3 gigs of garbage is rather suspect where management is concerned. We can blame those that make the web pages but alas, it is the end users' systems that suffer, and in turn, that makes it also the browser and perhaps OS maker to step in.
 
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ctjack

macrumors 68000
Mar 8, 2020
1,565
1,575
We can blame those that make the web pages but alas, it is the end users' systems that suffer, and in turn, that makes it also the browser and perhaps OS maker to step in.
That is funny. I had rMBP 13 2012 with 8GB RAM/128gb ssd for 8 years, there were only few times when i saw a beachball or had the system lagging. Overall when lagging, i was tracking the activity monitor, so 99% of the time I just had CPU (dual core only) maxed out at 100% use which obviously created slowdowns if ever. My RAM was always sitting between 5 to 7 GB. It has Sierra on it. My RAM pressure is green.

Currently, with M1 Air 8GB/512GB on Monterey, 8GB is nothing and I always in a yellow/red RAM pressure zone. My 8 core M1 CPU barely struggles while always being used only for 5-25% of load, so clearly my bottleneck is RAM and MacOS. Funnily enough, first 2 releases of BigSur were totally fine with me and then things went downhill.

Artisright mentioned one things that awaits us: Studio introduced 20 core CPUs with 128GB of RAM - there is so much less incentives to hone your code and make less power hungry software. Apple with its' buggy MacOS is not helping either - I restart once a week now, used to do once a year.

PS. My habits haven't changed at all since i am conservative and only visiting the websites that i always used. My work habits also the same since using above 2 laptops I was doing the same job on my laptops for the last 3 years.
 

phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
4,515
1,467
That is funny. I had rMBP 13 2012 with 8GB RAM/128gb ssd for 8 years, there were only few times when i saw a beachball or had the system lagging. Overall when lagging, i was tracking the activity monitor, so 99% of the time I just had CPU (dual core only) maxed out at 100% use which obviously created slowdowns if ever. My RAM was always sitting between 5 to 7 GB. It has Sierra on it. My RAM pressure is green.

Currently, with M1 Air 8GB/512GB on Monterey, 8GB is nothing and I always in a yellow/red RAM pressure zone. My 8 core M1 CPU barely struggles while always being used only for 5-25% of load, so clearly my bottleneck is RAM and MacOS. Funnily enough, first 2 releases of BigSur were totally fine with me and then things went downhill.

Artisright mentioned one things that awaits us: Studio introduced 20 core CPUs with 128GB of RAM - there is so much less incentives to hone your code and make less power hungry software. Apple with its' buggy MacOS is not helping either - I restart once a week now, used to do once a year.

PS. My habits haven't changed at all since i am conservative and only visiting the websites that i always used. My work habits also the same since using above 2 laptops I was doing the same job on my laptops for the last 3 years.
Yes, things have changed. I recall when Apple's computers could handle things nicely with 8 gigs. Today, things are very different and it is a shame that Apple does not smooth out these issues and correct age long foibles people have complained about. Hardware has usually been ahead of software and now it is more obvious when the difference is substantial.
 
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Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,279
13,378
phrehdd:
"things have changed. I recall when Apple's computers could handle things nicely with 8 gigs. Today, things are very different..."

That's why (particularly with the m-series "unified memory" design):
16gb of RAM is "the new 8" ...
 

InuNacho

macrumors 68010
Apr 24, 2008
2,001
1,262
In that one place
Yes, things have changed. I recall when Apple's computers could handle things nicely with 8 gigs. Today, things are very different and it is a shame that Apple does not smooth out these issues and correct age long foibles people have complained about. Hardware has usually been ahead of software and now it is more obvious when the difference is substantial.
I think one of the biggest issues is VRAM usage. If I open say a 300MB TIFF file in preview just to look at it, VRAM usage spikes and does not release itself for what seems like forever, even after Preview is closed. This in turn creates chunkier performance elsewhere. I'm using an RX580 eGPU too!
I don't understand why Apple just ignores these things and just keeps churning out new hardware. I guess they're making the specs so high to counteract the crappy OS management.
 
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phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
4,515
1,467
I think one of the biggest issues is VRAM usage. If I open say a 300MB TIFF file in preview just to look at it, VRAM usage spikes and does not release itself for what seems like forever, even after Preview is closed. This in turn creates chunkier performance elsewhere. I'm using an RX580 eGPU too!
I don't understand why Apple just ignores these things and just keeps churning out new hardware. I guess they're making the specs so high to counteract the crappy OS management.
There are times I cannot help but think of the earlier DOS PC days where we used RAM managers and were very careful how DOS behaved in handling "upper memory" and the same for apps. One would think by 2022 that a company like Apple would have mastered how their hardware behaves with the OS and apps. The words sadly that come to mind are pathetic and hapless.
 
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InuNacho

macrumors 68010
Apr 24, 2008
2,001
1,262
In that one place
There are times I cannot help but think of the earlier DOS PC days where we used RAM managers and were very careful how DOS behaved in handling "upper memory" and the same for apps. One would think by 2022 that a company like Apple would have mastered how their hardware behaves with the OS and apps. The words sadly that come to mind are pathetic and hapless.
I never had a DOS computer, was born a Mac from the beginning haha! My uncle had an Amiga here in the states which didn't seem out of place then but apparently it was. I remember my dad and uncle talking about how System 6 would bring up real multitasking. What a time.
One thing I remember from the 16-bit days of yore was indeed the need for strict memory management because everything was truly tied to one another. If one thing went amuck, everything did.
I also have PTSD of monthly Norton Disk Doctor taking away precious gaming time but that is a story for another day.
 

phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
4,515
1,467
I never had a DOS computer, was born a Mac from the beginning haha! My uncle had an Amiga here in the states which didn't seem out of place then but apparently it was. I remember my dad and uncle talking about how System 6 would bring up real multitasking. What a time.
One thing I remember from the 16-bit days of yore was indeed the need for strict memory management because everything was truly tied to one another. If one thing went amuck, everything did.
I also have PTSD of monthly Norton Disk Doctor taking away precious gaming time but that is a story for another day.
Commodore was the get-all for multi-tasking. DOS used items like DesqView that would slice up the processor time between applications giving the appearance of multi-tasking. Fun days back then.
 
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