Is 16gb RAM enough these days?

[Fishrrman]

I've posted a number of times in this forum that with the m-series CPU's,
16gb is "the new 8"...

I expect the average user won't need more than 16gb of RAM for a while yet, probably 7+ years or longer. By then, the demands of the OS and apps running may "increase" to the point where 16gb begins to strain.

But unless you are using applications that are "RAM-dependent" today (such as with 4k video processing, etc.), 16gb should be "more than enough" for several years' more.

 

[Smartuser]

Thanks. That’s kinda what I was getting at with my post. I just didn’t want to invest $2k into something that would require an upgrade in just a couple years to be able to meet new minimum requirements. I know 16gb is still pretty solid but I saw how quickly 4gb jumped to 8gb in terms of standards, and now how quickly 16gb seems to have become the new standard. 2 months ago when I first started laptop shopping, I went to Best Buy and it seemed virtually all midrange and above windows laptops had that much RAM and only the Chromebook type laptops had 8gb. I wasn’t sure if this trend would accelerate and 32gb would become the “normal” standard in 2-3 years’ time.

What's the definition of "standard" here? It can't be something that's required or the minimum being sold, since 16GB is definitely not required to run macOS or generally sold as the minimum. On the MacBook Air, which is Apple's most popular computer, 8GB is, and it's acceptable for a lot of uses.

Using the MacBook Air as the benchmark, Mactracker tells me that 2GB was the minimum from 2008-2011, followed by 4GB from 2011-2017, and then it became 8GB, which it still is.
The MacBook Pro has started at 16GB since 2014 for the bigger model.

None of these "standard" changes happened quickly or unpredictably. You're writing as if Apple would go to a new one every few weeks when in reality they stay with it for many years.

Additionally, I've never seen one of my Macs become effectively unusable after 2-3 years for any reason, and I would doubt it right now unless I start making my money exclusively with 32K video editing. (Well, yours is already a 1.5 years old, but I'd still make the same case for it.)

 

[dmccloud]

It does not look great for video editing on macbook pro or macbook air going forward, unless Apple changes the "ban" on post purchase upgrading of RAM and SSD in future releases of macbook pro or macbook air...

The rate of development of camera technology, with the LOGS/LUTS, and other side car files, is way ahead of the rate of development of software to be used to edit the media created...

A classic case is about to unfold next week, it is assumed and yet to be confirmed or denied by Apple is that even a 12 inch ipad pro with 16GB of RAM and a 2TB SSD internal cannot access external SSD drives, that is the assumption now before the official release on the 23rd of May 2023...

This is a problem, as the 12 inch with 1TB is almost $2000, and the minimum requirements for FCP on ipad allows for a 64GB SSD and 8GB of RAM to be used, just how much media can you record on the ipad before you run out of media space?? 64GB of video is really not a lot, then to have no access to external drives??

The biggest problem is the number of ports and the lack of planning for at least 3 years of growth, surely in the last 12 years Apple would have come to realize that 1-external SSD card/drives are vital, and 2-SD card slot would enhance the ipad, I just cannot understand in the lifespan of the ipad, why not at least 1 version was put on the market with an SD card slot...

As soon as you start adding effects and color grading to a clip, this will start to tax the system, what everyone has forgotten is that video editing is a complex app that applies a lot of math algorithms to each pixel in each frame, to change the state of that pixel, and that has to require some sort of "boost.."

So far there has been only 1 external GPU released, by Blackmagic, and something went wrong, but it was not around long, it seems due to a chip shortage..[I truly don't believe that was the real reason...], but this creates a problem, at some point video editing will have to move from a mobile device ipad/laptop to the desktop...

Apple knows this, and the only way to carry on editing is to spend the $10 000 or more to get a decent mac pro tower with the 64/96 or 128GB of RAM, or running a lot of GPU or a shed full of graphics cards...

The fact is, Apple is pushing for you to buy and buy often, long gone are the days of keeping a mac for more than 2 yrs, you will need to buy the top spec of each if you want a hope to survive...

I had no idea until I saw a video about this, that the 64 to 512 GB SSD ipads only had 8GB of RAM, that the 1TB/2TB 12 inch Ipad Pro came with 16GB of RAM.. This is something of a surprise, as here in South Africa, the Apple website does not list the RAM installed on each device, there is no mention of RAM at all...

I cannot understand how in 2000's Apple could create the 1st generation of macbook pro with the ability to upgrade RAM post purchase.. What a pleasure, now it is a pain, and the costs are just beyond comprehension...An ipad that costs more than a decent 2nd hand car???

Most iPads can already access external SSDs or even external HDDs without issue, as long as you're using a USB-C cable to connect them to the iPad. You just access them via the Files app. I do this already with my 11" iPad Pro. As fas as an SD card reader goes, where would you even fit it into an iPad without a) making the entire unit thicker (and therefore slightly heavier) to hold the reader and b) what would you remove and/or rearrange to make space inside the chassis for the reader, especially on WiFi + cellular models where they already have a SIM card tray?

As far as Apple listing RAM capacities for the iPads, it's always been on the comparison and tech spec pages rather than the main page for each iPad. That's nothing new, and it's largely because RAM has not been as relevant a spec for the iPads since their inception.

 

[splitpea]

2 months ago when I first started laptop shopping, I went to Best Buy and it seemed virtually all midrange and above windows laptops had that much RAM and only the Chromebook type laptops had 8gb. I wasn’t sure if this trend would accelerate and 32gb would become the “normal” standard in 2-3 years’ time.

I wouldn’t count on it in 2-3 years. But in 5-7 years, yeah.

 

[JamesMay82]

In theory this is a thing; in practice my 2015 macbook pro with 8 GB of ram and non-replaceable/upgradable SSD is still totally fine. the CPU, screen and IO ports have become less useful long before the SSD has worn out.

It’s 8 years old this year.

The machine shipped with LPDDR3 - the current memory standard is DDR5.

I think expecting a machine to last too much longer than that is just unrealistic - i.e., in reality the upgrade concerns are theoretical only.

By the time it wears out, the ports are out of date, CPU instructions for accelerating software (e.g., above machine tanks CPU on zoom calls as it can’t accelerate h.265, etc. in hardware) aren’t present, IO standards move on, etc.

very good point. I also have a 2015 MacBook Pro & a iMac 2014. I also have a m1 air base storage and ram for work and I can't tell a difference in the daily spreadsheets and email tasks. My only issue on these is they can't handle 4k video.

However, when I replace my personal computers I will be going with 32gig just because I hold onto them for 10 years and 2. I think 16 gig will be the new standard in a couple of years..

 

[JustinePaula]

My point was that 1-needs change over time, 2-Apple knows this and is abusing us to a point, and it is wrong, Apple could/should rather have invested in maybe acquiring the ability to produce in house, the RAM, CPU, GPU, they have been in the hardware business for more than a decade.. Time enough to mature, they have the funds to own any tech hardware resource on the planet...

So it makes no sense why in 2023, we have laptops and ipads running 8 and 16GB of RAM, when for almost the cost of a paperclip this could be at least 96GB of internal RAM, for a MBA... there is not a single viable logical reason this could not be true...

Editing, photo, video, audio, will require more and more resource, and yes some folks are forced to keep devices for a decade or longer, as to purchase is just insane.. I would have over the last decade probably spent more on my macbook pro in terms of upgrades than buying my macbook air in 2022...

Apple is about making money, so how much more would they make selling upgrades? I would have gone from 8 to 16, to 32, 64 maybe, bought SSD drives, both internal and external, but as there is no way to upgrade I did not, but but I did with my first mac, new hard drive, new RAM, I bought a new battery... So there 3 purchases made when post purchase upgrading allowed it, and 3 times I could not as there was no point..

It makes no sense how in the 20 yrs since Apple thought about then launched the whole intel "macbook" range, now into the M1/x series....Apple needs to stop needing diapers, big person underpants and time to be mature...

 

[HDFan]

I went to Best Buy and it seemed virtually all midrange and above windows laptops had that much RAM

Not quite a valid comparison. Apples' SOC architecture doesn't need as much RAM as an Intel system.

As fas as an SD card reader goes,

Useless in my case since my camera uses CF express cards.

 

[JitteryJimmy]

I have an 8 GB MBA / M1. Works great for me, and I never have memory issues. Of course it depends on your use. If you're firing up VMs or using RAM-hungry apps, you'll likely want the most RAM you can get. My MBA has an uptime of 13 days and its memory pressure is squarely in the green.

If I ever find myself experiencing RAM limitations, I'll just sell it and buy a new Mac with more RAM. That's an easy option for me, as Macs retain their value very well.

 

[portishead12]

I have an 8 GB MBA / M1. Works great for me, and I never have memory issues. Of course it depends on your use. If you're firing up VMs or using RAM-hungry apps, you'll likely want the most RAM you can get. My MBA has an uptime of 13 days and its memory pressure is squarely in the green.

If I ever find myself experiencing RAM limitations, I'll just sell it and buy a new Mac with more RAM. That's an easy option for me, as Macs retain their value very well.

do you have any idea how much value the 16” M1 Max might retain? I have never owned a MacBook before so I have no real point of reference.

asking because if I keep it, but a year or two from now really find myself regretting not getting something smaller and hate the weight and bulk of it, it would be nice to know I could recoup most of my investment if I sell it. 😂

 

[AustinIllini]

16 is more than fine for my needs.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I made a post about my dilemma a couple weeks back, but still haven't made up my mind. Basically, I scooped up a 16" M1 Max 32gb 1tb SSD on sale for $2499, but it's a thick and chunky behemoth and I think my heart still tells me the 14" form factor is my preference... the issue is, if I go that route, due to cost I'd probably just stick with the base model m2 pro with 16gb RAM and 512gb ssd.

I'm not super concerned about the SSD space because i have a 14tb external hdd i can dock to, but the RAM is the main reason I'm leaning towards keeping the m1 max. I am concerned that 16gb RAM might become increasingly slower within the next 2-3 years, as it seems like we are at the point where 8gb is no longer the standard and 16gb is becoming increasingly common in base model laptops.

I guess I was just curious to see what you guys thought... if I did stick with the 14" m2 pro and return the m1 max, do you think I'll regret keeping the one with only 16gb RAM, or will that still get me by for a good number of years moving forward and am I underestimating the power and efficiency of the apple operating system?

(This is my first-ever Macbook and if I seem to be having OCD still struggling to make up my mind weeks later, it's probably because it feels like a huge decision and I want to make sure I make the right choice.)

It depends on your personal thinking. Apple's Mac OS does a superb job of managing memory. My recently replaced 2016 MBP wanted more than its 16 GB RAM for years, but still worked while I waited for M2 MBP. So yes, you can operate under lesser RAM like 16 GB.

But over the decades I have found Macs run better when not forcing the OS to jump through RAM hoops. RAM needs always have increased over time (note 128k in the first Macs) and Apple's new UMA makes RAM usage even more beneficial to apps and to the OS. In the past I have paid $400 for 2 MB of RAM, so my personal thinking is that $400 for each +32 GB is not unreasonable.

Folks' personal thinking is their own of course, but I strongly disagree with all those here who think that because 16 GB "works" in 2023 (Mac OS does do a superb job of managing memory) that it is appropriate for the life cycle of a new box.

 

[apostolosdt]

Time will show whether the pros of running non-upgradeable Macs outnumber the cons. But I'm starting to notice a more than adequate performance of my base Mini M1 and imagine---the comparison is with 64 GB Mac Pros. Not to mention the overall benefits from its low power runs.

 

[HillCountry]

do you have any idea how much value the 16” M1 Max might retain? I have never owned a MacBook before so I have no real point of reference.

asking because if I keep it, but a year or two from now really find myself regretting not getting something smaller and hate the weight and bulk of it, it would be nice to know I could recoup most of my investment if I sell it. 😂

I don't think Apple knows what prices will be in a year or two. I seem to remember they fall 10-20 percent per year from Apple. They pay less for trade ins and a used Mac from Apple with their support is worth more than an as-is used Mac from a person. Check your current trade in value if you can stand the depreciation shock. Apple allows $30 to $1200 with $775 average for a MacBook Pro. https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in

There are ways to save a little. Is this what you said you want? https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac/1tb-14-inch-macbook-pro-32gb
This is small and light. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/...m2-chip-with-8-core-cpu-and-8-core-gpu-256gb#
But, if you need a small-light-inexpensive-32GB-4-8K-video-processing-desktop-replacement-laptop-that-keeps-up-with-2033-Mac-when-those-are-released, I think should expect regret unless you wait and buy one in 2045.

BTW, how'd you get such a great deal on the one you have? I also forgot to mention last time that there's a MacRumor of a 15" MacBook Air coming out this year (maybe June 9) that might hit the sweet spot. https://www.macrumors.com/guide/15-inch-macbook-air/

 

[ilikewhey]

My Kia Sorrento is fine for now, but I have the aspiration to get into road racing so maybe I should just buy a Corvette instead…

It’s foolish to buy a computer for something you’re not doing, or don’t have plans to do in the immediate future. Buy the laptop you need now, and if your needs change - trade/sell and upgrade.

bad analogy, a proper one would be, my 2 seat coupe is fine for now, but i have the aspiration of starting a family so maybe i should buy a suv instead.

apps and programs will only get bigger as time goes on, 4gb was ok in 2012 but no way doable in 2018, 8gb is somewhat doable today but no way doable couple of years from now.

 

[JustinePaula]

The only issue is that gen 1 of the macbook pro range had the ability to upgrade RAM post purchase, as Apple thought this is what folks would do, and if you think about it, the screen, keyboard, other components will last decades if treated correctly, but RAM does fail, SSD do fail, and for really not much "tax" you have a viable device..

Apple is all in for being "eco" what happens to all the devices that are just needing a bit of RAM upgrade, or a bigger SSD? A tiny re-design and you would see a huge uptake in upgrades through the Apple store.. I would pay to upgrade my macbook air, or invest in a macbook pro that I know I can update over time...As I did with my first macbook pro...

Sure there is a limit to how far a device can go, my 2013 macbook pro is my daily driver, but it would benefit from a few more horses under the hood...

The KIA could be upgraded from a 1 litre to a 1.5l, change the gearbox, change the turbo... Why not? There is no functional reason that mac laptops running M1 could not have been designed to allow for post purchase upgrading!! I would have spent a lot more at the Apple store, but once in a decade is bad business...

 

[al3zza03]

I have the base M1 Macbook Air and base Max Studio and often switch between the two. The same basic task (FireFox multiple tabs <5 + O365 Apps, Apple News) on both machines result in different RAM usage: the Air is around 6 or 7GB in used RAM while the Studio is at 10-12GB.

 

[throAU]

Time will show whether the pros of running non-upgradeable Macs outnumber the cons. But I'm starting to notice a more than adequate performance of my base Mini M1 and imagine---the comparison is with 64 GB Mac Pros. Not to mention the overall benefits from its low power runs.

I’ve had several non upgradeable macs since 2015, the 2015 one is still useful.

 

[Daytona 360]

I have the base M1 Macbook Air and base Max Studio and often switch between the two. The same basic task (FireFox multiple tabs <5 + O365 Apps, Apple News) on both machines result in different RAM usage: the Air is around 6 or 7GB in used RAM while the Studio is at 10-12GB.

Expected behavior, because unused RAM = WASTED RAM

 

[throAU]

More people need to understand this. Cache is useful to improve performance and the more ram you have the more the OS will use for cache. You can’t just look at the “free” memory number and draw conclusions from that, you need to look at the other numbers.

To make it easier, apple introduced the memory pressure graph, most people should just use that (unless you actually know how the memory manager works, and what "app memory", "wired" and "compressed" and "cached files" are - and how they are used and relate to memory pressure). If it isn’t orange or red, you’re totally fine. In my experience the M series machines are responsive well into the orange (i.e., didn’t notice any performance drop).

 

[al3zza03]

Expected behavior, because unused RAM = WASTED RAM

Yes, agree. Point attempted was someone might contemplate more RAM because their usage on a higher spec'd system shows more utilization.

 

[AppliedMicro]

I tend to average about a decade between laptop upgrades

That is longer than Apple supports their machines with macOS upgrades.

The base model M2 14“ MacBook Pro is listed at $1999 on Apple’s website. The RAM upgrade to 32GB (that you don’t need today and probably won’t even notice tomorrow, unless running specific very heavy workloads) costs $400.

That’s 20% of the price of a new machine - or the equivalent of buying your next laptop in 8 years down the, road instead of 10 years. These two years are much more likely to make a difference.

 

[JustinePaula]

That is longer than Apple supports their machines with macOS upgrades.

My daily driver is a 2013 retina macbookm pro, running High Sierra, and it works, it is now well passed 10 yrs old, and save for the screen and the battery, still functional, I would have loved to have bought more RAM, changed the battery as it is a great laptop, has plenty of ports, and the SD card slot is a huge win...

The replacement is a 2021 macbook air, 2 ports, 8GB of ram and I hate it, really awful device, and I never use it, prefer to use a macbook pro with green vertical lines, a 3 minute battery and a 10 yr old OS, than a modern laptop with the latest and greatest OS installed... Ventura is garbage, it is worse than Vista on my HP.. Truly I could not hate an OS more, it is worse than Win11...

I know High Sierra will never be upgraded/updated/supported... One day the apps will stop working as they have done on the ipad mini 2, ios935.. A great ipad that is basically trash, what a waste, I would buy apps and I would love to use the ipad as it is small and fits into my needs well... The replacement if I could afford it, would be the ipad pro 12 inch, for the only reason 16GB of RAM... I would love to buy a lower spec ipad, and save up and maybe every few months, go and have the Ipad upgraded, maybe a notch of RAM, and a bigger SSD... or an external SSD from Samsung...

I am not an accountant, I cannot see what is wrong with the "sell more for less $" is worse than "selling less for more $".. I did with my 1st mac buy an upgraded RAM module..4 to 8, 2 x 4GB if I recall... I would do that if I could... A pity I cannot...Anyway...

 

[h.gilbert]

currently my usage is fairly light tbh, which is why 32gb is probably overkill, but i also plan to keep it for a long time (my last laptop lasted for over a decade) and i do have the aspiration to get back into video editing and some photography work. so i didn't want to spend almost $2k on a device that might not be able to keep up with performance demands in 2-3 years' time. for only a few hundred dollars more the specs on the m1 max seemed like a no-brainer.

but, the main thing i've been wrestling with has been the form factor of the 16" tbh, and just feeling like it might be too bulky and cumbersome to use as a laptop.

I'm still using a bog standard 2016 13" MBP as my only computer, 8GB RAM. I don't do anything heavy on it now, just browsing and word/excel. No issues with memory and I don't think it'll be a problem for a long time.

 

[Lioness~]

I have 16GB RAM on my MBA from 2018.
It was a perfect choice at that time, and a more perfect choice today.
If I noticed anything is that it uses LESS memory for same tasks as time have passed on. My guess is that macOS gets better with time, and I assume that Silicon Macs is even better.

I am not going to renew this yet, it works totally fine for my tasks still.
But I do hunger a bit for a new portable M-Mac, and when I buy 16GB RAM will be enough in that too.

 

[JustinePaula]

The OS is getting worse, it is so full of sludge and bloat, I am half expecting my laptop to fart... Ventura is about as bad as Win10/11, no where as good as High Sierra... I think Apple has gone rogue, just really not trying...