Is Apple falling off with AMD? The worst decision Apple has ever made.

[vanc]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Apple should hire guys like the op for their product strategy. How could the apple engineers have missed the obvious facts that the op has kindly pointed out? You almost have to wonder how these companies make billions when they have such incompetent people working for them and making bad decisions with no thought behind it. Hardware guy, please submit your CV and sort it out, post-haste.

+1. Good reasoning.

The OP does not seem to understand hardware. It's totally a BS saying ATI's video cards are a knock off. They use totally different architecture. Even the underlining instruction sets are different. ATI has been known for better video quality for years. I still own a pair of ATI and Nvidia cards for my old Sony Vaio desktop bought in 2001. The stock NV card was way blurry.

 

[CHSeifert]

Sorry but Radeon cards in my country are currently more expensive than the nividua cards of same caliber.

Amd makes quality video cards now a days, so get your facts straight before you TROLL this forum !!!

Gainwards and sapphire top cards are all Radeon cards and they perform perfectly and in fact cost more than same speed nividia cards.

Get your facts together. You have been out of the PC world and in the mac world far too long. You have lost your knowledge by not messing with PC building and only using your mac from the outside

 

[-aggie-]

I don’t know about the ATI comments, but saying AMD is crap makes no sense. In some respects AMD is a much better CPU and consistently performs better than Intel CPU’s.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I personally i'm glad they went AMD. After the 8600GT fiasco, and their rebadging phase, i stopped being a fan. AMD is also currently whooping Nvidia's butt in the market.

I've had 3 mainboard replacements via Applecare when using the 8800M GT graphics card, IMHO AMD cannot be worse than that. I've put 2X 6870 in my gaming system at home, it smokes the nearest nVidia cards on price and performance. And there's my work PC... ATI FirePro, it kills the Quadro for what I need it for.

I am not an AMD or nVidia fanboy but I have to stay loyal to what in the past has give me the best performance, product and price which happens to be AMD/ATi. If nVidia has the better product then I would be more than happy to switch to them.

Though I am tempted to think the original thread was trollbait...

 

[paulrbeers]

Wow in less than 2 hours this guy's post has been ripped apart.

Hardware guy my @$$. Maybe if your hardware knowledge is from 4 years ago. In my gaming rigs, I switched to AMD with the 4000 series chipset and haven't gone back.

Let's do a little history Lesson.
Nvidia won when they were the Geforce 2-4 series and ATI Radeon was the 7000 and 8000 series cards

ATI Radeon won during the 9000 series and Nvidia was the 5000 series

Nvidia took the crown during their 6-7000 series when ATI was releasing their Radeon 1000-3000HD series

Now AMD/ATI are back with the crown really since the 4000 series up thru the 6000 series.

Sure Nvidia might have the fastest card at times, but for bang for buck and especially efficiency (which is what you want especially in a LAPTOP), AMD/ATI wins.

Seriously "hardware guy", know what you are talking about before opening your mouth....

 

[Apple 26.2]

AMD is faster. Also, the world is flat. Or some would have you believe.

 

[AppleScruff1]

In some respects AMD is a much better CPU and consistently performs better than Intel CPU’s.

Could you cite a few examples of this with current chips?

 

[*LTD*]

Doesn't really matter. Soon Apple will be putting their own A-series hardware in there.

Apple is headed for self-sufficiency.

 

[kidaquarius]

I've been building gaming rigs since the late Nineties, using both Intel/AMD & Nvidia/ATI combinations.

Over the last 4 or 5 years, I've used exclusively Intel processors and Nvidia GPUs.

The AMD/ATI combinations never met my expectations.

Obviously, everyone has a different experience- that's just mine.

As far as my MacBook is concerned- I intentionally purchased the "old" uMBP the day the "new" uMBPs came out because I wanted to keep the Nvidia GPU.
That's not here or there really, because the 13" uMBPs have Intel graphics.
Still, I purposely bought the old version to stick with the Nvidia unit.

..Like anyone cares though. Just building my post count with this banter.

 

[Joshuarocks]

I used to be a PC guy, and Apple's switch to Intel processors was the kicker that actually got me into trying Macs out and I've loved it ever since. My background is in computer hardware and the switch to Intel was a great choice because hands down, Intel creates the best (stable & fast) processors.

Now Apple has made another choice that is definitely not a good one: switching to AMD (ATI) video cards.

As a hardware guy, let me give you a quick rundown of what AMD/ATI is and why this is a horrible move for Apple. AMD & ATI are budget versions of Intel and Nvidia, respectively. The whole business model of AMD & ATI is to wait for Intel or Nvidia to release a quality product and then create a budget version (with almost identical specs.) of the same product for cheap. They are essentially almost knock offs of Nvidia and Intel for processors and video cards. The specs of the processors and video cards are the same as their real counterparts, so people buy them thinking it's the same thing but cheaper. WRONG, as these products routinely under-perform or break down before time has come.

It was no surprise for me when ATI effectively almost went bankrupt and was bought up by AMD a few years ago: their products were crap. They were unstable and always failed. They were only good for one thing: buying cheap hardware and overclocking it. I guess a good analogy would be imagining Nvidia/Intel as a well made Mercedes Benz, with ATI/AMD products as a Honda Civic that has had its engine replaced with some supercharged V12. Or how about Nvidia/Intel as the American space program versus the Russian space program, with spaceships held together with duck-tape and rubber bands.

I don't know what Apple is thinking and I hope this is for this generation only because I can NOT stand this choice! Apple is putting in budget video cards into their new notebooks, who ever made this choice needs to get fired ASAP. If this keeps up welcome me back to the PC realm because this is complete BS. Ask anyone with experience with PC hardware and they will agree. How does Apple get away with putting a POS hardware into their flagship products? Why don't we have an Nvidia option anymore

Why aren't more people seeing this?

I used to be a PC guy also, but I love still the PowerPC and its capabilities.. still believe RISC is much better designed.. I wouldn't mind having a POWER7 or POWER8 as a processor which both of those can kick the crap out of Intel anyway. But alas.. in addition to my Power Mac G5, I also have a Mac Pro which I seldom use anyway - just got it as a backup desktop system, but my 1st love is to my PowerPC Mac.. those who know nothing about PowerPC and bash it just because it was IBM and Motorola's chip are ignorant of its design, though all processors have their flaws and good points..

 

[Joshuarocks]

Thanks to EBC firmware from AMD, Apple doesn't know that their new line of video cards work with 2006-2010 mac pros.. mainly older mac pros.. Nvidia could care less as they went EFI64 only and shut out all other mac pros. Horray for AMD! Now all they have to do is beat Intel.. More reasons why I like IBM's POWER processors better.. those could give Intel a run for its money.

I don't hate Intel, but I think their designs are primitive and based on the older x86 model.

 

[roadbloc]

Doesn't really matter. Soon Apple will be putting their own A-series hardware in there.

Apple is headed for self-sufficiency.

Another chipset change? I hope not. Anyway, isn't this so called "A" chip just a name Apple give for a standard ARM chipset? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[mediasorcerer]

wow,the trolls are in here hot n strong lately,usually its windows machines are better,or some rubbish,now its apples bad for putting a 1 gig ddr5 amd card in there lappys?what a complete dick.dont bother posting in this thread,more rubbish.

 

[Cabbit]

ATi have been on top since the 9700 pro that Nvidea only started to match with the 5900, before its 5800 was routinely mocked as being best used as a hair drye, for cheating on benchmarks, and vinally for claiming to be a DX9 card but only truly being a DX8 card especially in Half life 2.

This situation has carried on with both companies really stepping up there game but the performance crown has predominantly belonged to ATi/AMD.

 

[garybUK]

As a hardware guy, let me give you a quick rundown of what AMD/ATI is and why this is a horrible move for Apple. AMD & ATI are budget versions of Intel and Nvidia, respectively. The whole business model of AMD & ATI is to wait for Intel or Nvidia to release a quality product and then create a budget version (with almost identical specs.) of the same product for cheap. They are essentially almost knock offs of Nvidia and Intel for processors and video cards. The specs of the processors and video cards are the same as their real counterparts, so people buy them thinking it's the same thing but cheaper. WRONG, as these products routinely under-perform or break down before time has come.

Back in the day of the Pentium II / Pentium III era, AMD K6-2 processors absolutely wiped the floor of Intel with the Price, Power & Reliability. Some flaky motherboard manufacturers though made it seem unstable. Nvidia's nforce chipsets were awesome on AMD Hardware.

Catalyst drivers on ATI cards back in the day of this era of K62 / Pentium III cpu's were absolutely horrendous, they were so unstable this drove people to Nvidia

Or how about Nvidia/Intel as the American space program versus the Russian space program, with spaceships held together with duck-tape and rubber bands.

Yeah but which space programme is putting those American astronauts on the ISS ? Can't really call the Russian craft when the American shuttles have a bad history of blowing up! or shedding foam.

 

[*LTD*]

Another chipset change? I hope not. Anyway, isn't this so called "A" chip just a name Apple give for a standard ARM chipset? Correct me if I'm wrong.

The A-series is designed by Apple, manufactured elsewhere. The point is, it's designed by Apple. Apple has become a formidable chip company. The goal is self-sufficiency - to rely on your own resources. Total control of the process, from cradle to grave.

We'll see Apple's own A-series hardware (in whatever future iterations they may take) in all of Apple's devices, including Macs. The iPad is paving the way for this.

Apple can pull this off fairly easily over the long term, actually. They're already doing it with iDevices. As the A-series hardware becomes more powerful it will be transitioned into Macs, and Apple will nicely tell Intel and every other party they might have been beholden to, to go take a hike. Apple will go by their own roadmap. They have the influence (an understatement), the money, the market cap, and all the resources they need to do it *now.* Except the A-series tech isn't quite there in terms of the raw-power that is needed in Macs. Give it a little time, though . . .

This is just a taste of what's in store. After all, look at what Apple's done with the A5. Wow. Can they design a chip or what?

 

[Gav2k]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

Op loved this bit of your post....

guess a good analogy would be imagining Nvidia/Intel as a well made Mercedes Benz, with ATI/AMD products as a Honda Civic that has had its engine replaced with some supercharged V12

You really havnt a clue!

 

[*LTD*]

I guess a good analogy would be imagining Nvidia/Intel as a well made Mercedes Benz, with ATI/AMD products as a Honda Civic that has had its engine replaced with some supercharged V12. Or how about Nvidia/Intel as the American space program versus the Russian space program, with spaceships held together with duck-tape and rubber bands.

Over the long term, it actually makes no difference. I've had an ATI-based Mac and I now have an Nvidia-based Mac. As long as performance is comparable and fairy current, it's all the same to the consumer. I remember when Nvidia was churning out horribly glitchy hardware. That was resolved, of course.

Of course, there's also Apple's A-series platform. The good stuff you see under the hood in today's iPad will find its way into tomorrow's Macs. Albeit, in much, much more powerful iterations, which will effectively end the Nvidia/ATI debate.

 

[garybUK]

The A-series is designed by Apple, manufactured elsewhere. The point is, it's designed by Apple. Apple has become a formidable chip company. The goal is self-sufficiency - to rely on your own resources. Total control of the process, from cradle to grave.

Quite. Designed by ARM, plonked together by Apple and manufactured by Samsung..... yeah really self-sufficient. When Apple design an entirely new chip and not rely on good old ARM then they will be self sufficient.

Seeing as Microsoft are demonstrating Windows on ARM if Apple would release a Desktop version of OSX Running on A5 Chips? ... next Mac Mini ?

 

[KnightWRX]

I used to be a PC guy, and Apple's switch to Intel processors was the kicker that actually got me into trying Macs out and I've loved it ever since. My background is in computer hardware and the switch to Intel was a great choice because hands down, Intel creates the best (stable & fast) processors.

You say you're a hardware guy, you mean you write very specific and optimized x86 assembly code by hand, which was what was holding you back from using Macs with PowerPC or are you just some guy who builds PC and wouldn't have the first clue about the different CPU architectures ?

Do you have any actual proof of the "stable & fast" claim you make whereas some piece of highly optimzed assembly you wrote and tried to port over to another architecture never quite worked up to par ?

Because otherwise, I have news for you, you're not a hardware guy.

 

[BluAffiliate]

I've been building gaming rigs since the late Nineties, using both Intel/AMD & Nvidia/ATI combinations.

Over the last 4 or 5 years, I've used exclusively Intel processors and Nvidia GPUs.

The AMD/ATI combinations never met my expectations.

Obviously, everyone has a different experience- that's just mine.

As far as my MacBook is concerned- I intentionally purchased the "old" uMBP the day the "new" uMBPs came out because I wanted to keep the Nvidia GPU.
That's not here or there really, because the 13" uMBPs have Intel graphics.
Still, I purposely bought the old version to stick with the Nvidia unit.

..Like anyone cares though. Just building my post count with this banter.

QFT. Don't be fooled by cheaper prices and "same specs." There's a reason why ATI products are usually lumped in the budget desktops and cheap Asian made parts. It's a crap product.

 

[Flynnstone]

The whole business model of AMD & ATI is to wait for Intel or Nvidia to release a quality product and then create a budget version (with almost identical specs.) of the same product for cheap. They are essentially almost knock offs of Nvidia and Intel for processors and video cards.

A GPU has about a 2 year design window for a 6 month marketting window. can't wait to follow competition.

Nobody is perfect. Nvidia is good, AMD/ATI is good.

An interesting stat a few years ago : what is the percent market share of all processors running Windows. Round to whole % ....
....
0%

Also for the people that like their Core duos & above (me included), we need to thank AMD. If it weren't for AMD we might be running only 686's now. AMD changed Intels game plan (x64 extentions).

 

[paulrbeers]

QFT. Don't be fooled by cheaper prices and "same specs." There's a reason why ATI products are usually lumped in the budget desktops and cheap Asian made parts. It's a crap product.

Really? 'cuz last I checked just about every major PC manufacturer sells AMD/ATI stuff. They sell both AMD processors and their GPU's. Apple is one of the only companies that doesn't sell AMD processors, but they do now sell their GPU's. Seriously "hardware guy", it's time to move on....

Edit: I will grant you that the AMD processor based computers are generally the low end models, but that's because AMD only sells low end models. They can't compete with Intel's. That doesn't make them crap. Most people don't need a quad-core i5 or i7. Most just need something to surf the net. So they buy what fits them.

 

[cube]

QFT. Don't be fooled by cheaper prices and "same specs." There's a reason why ATI products are usually lumped in the budget desktops and cheap Asian made parts. It's a crap product.

In any case, Intel's graphics are the worst.

 

[chrono1081]

you're kidding right? Do you really believe ATI is a budget version of Nvidia? How old are you?

+1

As a hardware knowledgable person myself (but not the hardware person KnightWRX is suggesting, although I can write X86 assembler code) and someone who has worked in IT for a long time I can tell you that vid cards flip flop quality and features wise. Brand loyalty among vid card manufacturers is stupid.