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Is BlackBerry OS 5.0 VASTLY better than OS 4.5, or are 'Berry fans in denial?

Mikey B said:
Man, I wish it was true that the argument for the iPhone being an unreliable telephony device was old, but I fight that battle every day while my fiance's Bold, right next to me, has no issues. I find it hard to believe that you've never had a drop call, but more power to you. I'm jealous. I've had about 3,000. Not to mention all the times voicemails magically appear with no record of a call, if they appear at all. It is maddening. I stick with the iPhone because it's pros outweigh the cons for me, but it is hardly a world-class telephone or email device. I love the iPhone and it does many things better than any other platform, but as a communications/messaging device, it still has some ground to make up. And until AT&T straightens out their network or the iPhone is opened up to other carriers to relieve network congestion, I don't really see this changing. No matter what hardware or software changes are made to the device.
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I also agree with what Mikey B is saying here about the iPhone not being a reliable telephony device. I absolutely love the iPhone, have owned all 3 on AT&T, but still have problems with dropped calls, text messages not going through, and when checking email, quite often getting perpetually stuck in the Mail.app at "Checking for Mail...". Also, a very irritating problem I've had with my iPhone 3G AND iPhone 3GS is when placing a call, never hearing the other line "ring", yet my phone shows the call connected, and the call timer starts, but I can't hear a thing. I have to sometimes call back up to two times before I can hear anything, yet the caller tells me they could hear me talking each time the iPhone shows the call as connected (and my call timer is running). Quite irritating. I honestly have thought this was an AT&T network issue, but lately, I'm not so sure. I've been trying out the Blackberry Bold 9700 on AT&T, and I've not had one instance of this happening, and with the iPhone, it was literally happening at least once a day. Also, the Bold hasn't dropped a call yet, and texts go through fast and haven't had a report of one not being delivered, or of any not getting to me. Also, the Bold connects to the network pretty instantly when browsing the web (even though the browser sucks) and when accessing Facebook, using the mobile Gmail app, etc. The iPhone, regardless of 3G or 3GS, has always had quite a stall when connecting (such as the "Checking for Mail..." issue mentioned above), if it ever connects at all. I have found out that terminating the Mail.app and then reopening it usually solves this issue. Same when Safari stops responding. I don't see how two different phones can have such different experiences in utilizing the AT&T network. This was the case with both iPhone 3Gs and my current 3GS I've owned, so it's not isolated to one iPhone handset.
Ironically enough, I've found that my most pleasant iPhone 3GS experience comes when using it as an iPod Touch and using my Verizon MiFi wifi device to connect it through wifi to Verizon's network. None of these "slow to initially connect to the network" issues occur, and even though the theoritical maximum throughput of AT&T's 3G network is greater than Verizon's (and even the Speedtest.com tests in my area show this to be the case), REAL WORLD testing of the iPhone using Verizon's network is a must faster experience in this area, especially with ping rates. the Verizon network ping rate is quite often lower than our broadband ping rate at work, coming in around 110ms. The AT&T network's ping rate is usually well over 300ms. Maybe this is the explanation for the stuck "Checking for Mail..." status and the stalls when browsing the web on the iPhone on AT&T's network.
 
chris975d said:
Quite irritating. I honestly have thought this was an AT&T network issue, but lately, I'm not so sure. I've been trying out the Blackberry Bold 9700 on AT&T, and I've not had one instance of this happening, and with the iPhone, it was literally happening at least once a day.
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I would agree with you if this is a universal problem, but it's not. I for one have never had this problem, with the original iPhone, the 3G, nor now with the 3GS.

I guess people with these problems like to think everyone with an iPhone is having those problems, but the fact is, it's just not true. Certainly not for me at least, nor for the four other people I had at my place today who also have iPhones, nor for many of my friends with iPhones...
 
scaredpoet said:
I would agree with you if this is a universal problem, but it's not. I for one have never had this problem, with the original iPhone, the 3G, nor now with the 3GS.

I guess people with these problems like to think everyone with an iPhone is having those problems, but the fact is, it's just not true. Certainly not for me at least, nor for the four other people I had at my place today who also have iPhones, nor for many of my friends with iPhones...
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QFT!!!!

If it wasn't for the internet I would have never heard about any AT&T instability. I've honestly never meet an iPhone user in real life that has told me about these problems. And I know plenty with iPhones.
 
All my friends have been pressuring me to get a BB but i've simply not been won over at all.

I've tried many times to like the BlackBerry but i simply get fed up/bored with the interface within half an hour of using it. I've played with the 8310, 8900 & recently 9700 and all have been resoundingly boring and too utilitarian. Just a linear, archaic interface with boatloads of scrolling.

I can see why people like it and become addicted to it seeing as you're always connected and reliably so...save for recent events, plus the battery life. However it simply isn't my cup of tea and i just can't bring myself to buying one.

There are far better UIs out there which offer similar enough functionality save for the notorious BBM. All other platforms provide exchange support and some (like webOS) integrated inboxes...and do it prettier.
 
LIVEFRMNYC said:
QFT!!!!

If it wasn't for the internet I would have never heard about any AT&T instability. I've honestly never meet an iPhone user in real life that has told me about these problems. And I know plenty with iPhones.
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Did I say anywhere that it was EVERY iPhone user? No. It seems to be in certain areas, particularly high population density areas. I can name 4 employees of mine that use iPhones (all live within 20 miles of me) that are constantly talking about how their iPhone just "hangs" when accessing the web. I also know areas where my iPhone worked great. My biggest issue now is why do iPhones have this trouble in certain areas, but the Blackberry I'm using doesn't exhibit the same type of issues in the same areas? In a way, that eliminates the AT&T network, and puts the fault on the iPhone devices themselves.
 
Mikey B said:
Man, I wish it was true that the argument for the iPhone being an unreliable telephony device was old, but I fight that battle every day while my fiance's Bold, right next to me, has no issues. I find it hard to believe that you've never had a drop call, but more power to you. I'm jealous. I've had about 3,000. Not to mention all the times voicemails magically appear with no record of a call, if they appear at all. It is maddening. I stick with the iPhone because it's pros outweigh the cons for me, but it is hardly a world-class telephone or email device. I love the iPhone and it does many things better than any other platform, but as a communications/messaging device, it still has some ground to make up. And until AT&T straightens out their network or the iPhone is opened up to other carriers to relieve network congestion, I don't really see this changing. No matter what hardware or software changes are made to the device.
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If you've had 3,000 dropped calls don't you think maybe your iPhone is defective?
 
JD914 said:
Ridiculous review since you are basically talking about an outdated device (8300) with an outdated OS (4.5). You also go as far to admitting never used Blackberry OS 5.0. So whats the point of your pointless review? Oh yeah! that's right you feel good bashing the competition, so you can feel secure that you have the best device on the market!:rolleyes:
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Ridiculous reply. :rolleyes: Did you read the post at all?
 
Quu said:
If you've had 3,000 dropped calls don't you think maybe your iPhone is defective?
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Whether it's been the 2G, 3G, or 3GS, the network has been about as reliable as a pat of butter in the hot summer sun. Of course I've exchanged handsets in the hopes it wouldmake a difference. I've had at least 2 of each model unfortunately. Hell, I complained to AT&T so much they extended me the opporunity to get another phone at full subsidy 4 months after I bought the 3GS. I took that as a sign that AT&T is fully aware of their network problems and would much rathe take the hit on another subsidy than risk losing my account. Very stand up of them I must say.
 
Any new topic comparing phone brands (especially Blackberries and iPhones) invariably generates very passionate replies (or should I say flames). These nerd wars are always a fun read.

Moving past the popular overused soundbites (ie. "Blackberries are king at email", "iPhones are poor for making calls", ad nauseum), you will find the truth. Here it is in a nutshell:

1. Many people have little or no problem making and maintaining calls with the iPhone, including a lot of AT&T customers (me included). That doesn't mean YOU won't have problems though. RESEARCH coverage in your area, find friends with AT&T and/or the iPhone in your neck of the woods, and determine what experience you are most likely to have. Have someone with AT&T try their phone at your house. Then decide. This is true no matter what network and phone you are considering. Don't decide just based on hype. Unless you live in NYC.

2. The iPhone absolutely has FAR better apps than any other phone. The "fart apps" argument is getting really old. The app store is truly, truly awesome. Period. Even if it's got a lot of junk to go with the good stuff. I've got 11 pages of mostly terrific apps, some mind-blowingly great apps, and NO fart apps. I can dictate an email with my voice, and that app was FREE. Just to give an example. But apps don't matter to everyone. Decide for yourself what you care about most.

3. The Blackberry interface is much more complex than the iPhone, and much more difficult to navigate, but it is definitely is more flexible, and you can learn it and get quick at it. The Blackberry may do things that the iPhone doesn't which you'd consider important or critical. Do the research and decide what matters to you most.

4. If you jailbreak the iPhone, you get 90% of the features most cited as "missing" on the current iPhone OS (backgrounding, info on the home screen, themes, etc.). Decide if you are open to doing that.

5. There are very specific reasons why Blackberry is cited as being "king" at email. These reasons may or may not matter for your needs. It is NOT because the email UI is great. It's because push is ultra-fast, ultra-reliable, and uses little battery. It's also because of the unified message box. And for businesses on BES, it's your only way to connect (and BES is very slick). With that said, the iPhone is great at email in its own right, and if you want to integrate with MS Exchange, you want an iPhone, not a Blackberry. If instant email communication is not key to you, then an iPhone is a clearer choice.

6. BBM is unmatched on the Blackberry. But BBM may not be something you want. For a great texting replacement, with push, you can do Beejive messaging on the iPhone.

7. No other mobile matches iPhone's web browsing. Not even a Blackberry with a 3rd party browser. Android is getting pretty close though.

In summary, go past the hype, do the research, and chose what's best for you. Know what you are getting and what you are giving up with each option.
 
JD914 said:
Couldn't have said it better myself :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I know Cromulent has already said this, but I can't resist: That's why you saw the thread, opened it, read it, quoted a post, then replied, then quoted two more posts and replied. Yes, you clearly don't care. Nice way to avoid my point :rolleyes:.

[Removed - misunderstanding].

AppleMatt
 
redman042 said:
Any new topic comparing phone brands (especially Blackberries and iPhones) invariably generates very passionate replies (or should I say flames). These nerd wars are always a fun read.

Moving past the popular overused soundbites (ie. "Blackberries are king at email", "iPhones are poor for making calls", ad nauseum), you will find the truth. Here it is in a nutshell:

1. Many people have little or no problem making and maintaining calls with the iPhone, including a lot of AT&T customers (me included). That doesn't mean YOU won't have problems though. RESEARCH coverage in your area, find friends with AT&T and/or the iPhone in your neck of the woods, and determine what experience you are most likely to have. Have someone with AT&T try their phone at your house. Then decide. This is true no matter what network and phone you are considering. Don't decide just based on hype. Unless you live in NYC.

2. The iPhone absolutely has FAR better apps than any other phone. The "fart apps" argument is getting really old. The app store is truly, truly awesome. Period. Even if it's got a lot of junk to go with the good stuff. I've got 11 pages of mostly terrific apps, some mind-blowingly great apps, and NO fart apps. I can dictate an email with my voice, and that app was FREE. Just to give an example. But apps don't matter to everyone. Decide for yourself what you care about most.

3. The Blackberry interface is much more complex than the iPhone, and much more difficult to navigate, but it is definitely is more flexible, and you can learn it and get quick at it. The Blackberry may do things that the iPhone doesn't which you'd consider important or critical. Do the research and decide what matters to you most.

4. If you jailbreak the iPhone, you get 90% of the features most cited as "missing" on the current iPhone OS (backgrounding, info on the home screen, themes, etc.). Decide if you are open to doing that.

5. There are very specific reasons why Blackberry is cited as being "king" at email. These reasons may or may not matter for your needs. It is NOT because the email UI is great. It's because push is ultra-fast, ultra-reliable, and uses little battery. It's also because of the unified message box. And for businesses on BES, it's your only way to connect (and BES is very slick). With that said, the iPhone is great at email in its own right, and if you want to integrate with MS Exchange, you want an iPhone, not a Blackberry. If instant email communication is not key to you, then an iPhone is a clearer choice.

6. BBM is unmatched on the Blackberry. But BBM may not be something you want. For a great texting replacement, with push, you can do Beejive messaging on the iPhone.

7. No other mobile matches iPhone's web browsing. Not even a Blackberry with a 3rd party browser. Android is getting pretty close though.

In summary, go past the hype, do the research, and chose what's best for you. Know what you are getting and what you are giving up with each option.
Click to expand...


Agree with 95% of what you posted. :)

I never used BBM so I can't judge it. But I can't imagine anything being more instant than SMS and IM. I guess it depends on what your social and/or business network uses. Also I have to disagree with the last sentence on #5. iPhone has great instant email communication, Sometimes I chat with people via email the same way I use SMS or IM.

And #1 ...... NYC seems to go either way for any given user, which is strange cause most of us are cramped together in such a small space. I would figure if so many are getting bad service, Then why are so many like myself getting excellent service and vice versa. :confused:
 
chris975d said:
Also, a very irritating problem I've had with my iPhone 3G AND iPhone 3GS is when placing a call, never hearing the other line "ring", yet my phone shows the call connected, and the call timer starts, but I can't hear a thing. I have to sometimes call back up to two times before I can hear anything, yet the caller tells me they could hear me talking each time the iPhone shows the call as connected (and my call timer is running). Quite irritating. I honestly have thought this was an AT&T network issue, but lately, I'm not so sure. I've been trying out the Blackberry Bold 9700 on AT&T, and I've not had one instance of this happening, and with the iPhone, it was literally happening at least once a day.
Click to expand...
I've had that exact same problem on VERIZON so it's not AT&T exclusive.
 
LIVEFRMNYC said:
I never used BBM so I can't judge it. But I can't imagine anything being more instant than SMS and IM. I guess it depends on what your social and/or business network uses.
Click to expand...

I think that's totally true. If you have friends/family/coworkers on BBM, it's pretty hard to go any other way than a BB. But if you just want instant communications, an iPhone with Beejive is great. Except that you won't get the blinking light and other BB features that "draw" you to respond.

LIVEFRMNYC said:
Also I have to disagree with the last sentence on #5. iPhone has great instant email communication, Sometimes I chat with people via email the same way I use SMS or IM.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. My iPhone does Exchange push just fine, except that it can have a noticeable effect on battery life, especially if you get a lot of messages minutes apart throughout the day (which tends to prevent the iPhone from going into deep sleep mode to save battery). Also the iPhone only gives you one notification that you have new mail, and that's it. If you don't hear the beep, you won't know you have a message until you open mail.

Now I'm not a BB expert but my understanding is that it will blink the light until you answer, and as for battery life the BB does a much better job of handling a stream of push emails/messages with little impact on battery. But for this to work, you have to go through BES or BIS.

So what it boils down to is, if you want the "crackberry" experience (where messaging is king, everything is instant, and you want to be hounded until you answer), then you have to go BB, but if you are a bit more casual in your messaging, the iPhone is great. You can use push on the iPhone, but heavy use will require frequent charging or an extra battery pack.

Personally I don't need push email. If someone needs me now, they can call, text or IM. Otherwise they can email and I'll get to them periodically. That's how I like it. I typically set fetch to 1 hr, and switch to Push only when I'm expecting an urgent email.
 
Agreed and I don't need to hounded until I answer.

Push hasn't really been a battery drainer for me. Of course batt life would be better without Push, but I can goes days on stand-by with push on.
 
To reply to the OP's original question: No, OS 5.0 is not vastly improved. It is somewhat improved, but you'd never mistake it for something other than the same BB OS that has been around for years. Much like everything RIM does, it's an incremental improvement, not a radical change.

OP, I entirely agree with your sentiments about OS 4.5 (I run it on a curve 8320). I can't think of a comparison that adequately expresses the difference in user experience. One thing you didn't mention is that OS 4.5 lags *horribly* - though this could be due to the security software my employer installs; I don't know.

I actually don't like the integrated inbox, especially if you use the device for both personal and business purposes. What I *would* like is one-touch switching between different inboxes (I've suggested this idea to Apple). So if you only have two accounts, one touch (think of a button like the "reverse directions" button in maps) takes you from the inbox/drafts/sent/trash of one account to the inbox/drafts/sent/trash of the other. If you're in a custom folder, the button would take you to the top level of the other account (because there's no equivalent folder in the other account). If you have more than two accounts, the button would bring up a list of the other accounts and one more touch would take you to the one you want. Does anyone else think this is as brilliant as I do?
 
To the OP, you mentioned your girlfriend was getting a Bold. Any particular reason why? Not that the Bold is a bad phone, but has she spent some quality time with the iPhone before deciding? Two years is a loooong time to be stuck with one device. Need to make certain it's the right one.
 
Compile 'em all said:
Your argument that the iPhone can't reliably make calls or send emails is getting really old. I can already do both on my current iPhone reliably. Even on my 2 years-old iPhone I have never had a dropped call. True Story.
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Well if this is true then you never used your iphone.. I find it really hard to believe that in 2 years you NEVER dropped a call.. The only way that would have happened is you never turned it on to begin with..


James
 
I always love when, in a BB vs iPhone thread, the Pro BB crowed mentions dropped calls as a knock on the iPhone.

Even though it is an ATT issue and NOT an iPhone issue.
 
Rat-Boy said:
I always love when, in a BB vs iPhone thread, the Pro BB crowed mentions dropped calls as a knock on the iPhone.

Even though it is an ATT issue and NOT an iPhone issue.
Click to expand...

That's probably mostly true, but I have both a Bold (gave to my fiancé) and a 3GS in the same house and the iPhone will be dropping calls like dimes while the bold doesn't miss a network beat. It's very frustrating.
 
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