this is exactly your problem. taking VHS->DV->DVD will run down the quality. every time the format is changed or the footage goes through compression, you will lose quality. it's as simple as that.
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Is iDVD really this poor?
- Thread starter Chuck
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this is exactly your problem. taking VHS->DV->DVD will run down the quality. every time the format is changed or the footage goes through compression, you will lose quality. it's as simple as that.
If its any consolation, I have the same issues, and I too think it has to do with compression. In iMovie, my 5 minute video looks great. After burning to dvd with iDVD, there are real problems: Slow motion portions get jaggy and each frame isn't distinct. Lettering on signs look, again, jaggy and not clear. The fact that they are compressing my 5 minute video at the same rate they would do for a 60 minute video can't help. In theory, I could get by with 1/12th the compression, and I suspect that it would make the final product look really good. I wish that there was a way of setting the rate to the maximum possible given the total amount to be written on the disk. I suppose that is where "pro" products come in.
I know what the problem is....
It is not the software or the system.
The problem is that Quicktime reproduce DV format in a very crappy way, but that is only if you see the movie in the computer, when you play back the DV video it will look perfect.
That is a very strange problem QT have when playing back DV codec, it looks like a very cheao Cinepac compression.
When I started to work with DV codec in Mac I realize that too until a few month later some one told me about it.
The video is fine, if you want to lay the video witha very good quality in your computer use JPEG B or something like that, but that crappy looking of DV is "ok" for some reason. The play back will always be Pro quality.
It is not the software or the system.
The problem is that Quicktime reproduce DV format in a very crappy way, but that is only if you see the movie in the computer, when you play back the DV video it will look perfect.
That is a very strange problem QT have when playing back DV codec, it looks like a very cheao Cinepac compression.
When I started to work with DV codec in Mac I realize that too until a few month later some one told me about it.
The video is fine, if you want to lay the video witha very good quality in your computer use JPEG B or something like that, but that crappy looking of DV is "ok" for some reason. The play back will always be Pro quality.
I found out my problem a few months ago actually... It was just that iMovie was using PAL and iDVD was still set to NTSC.
As soon as I changed to PAL in iDVD my DVDs came out perfect where they were wretched before. (I wasted about 12 DVDs to find out this simple fix).
Chuck.
As soon as I changed to PAL in iDVD my DVDs came out perfect where they were wretched before. (I wasted about 12 DVDs to find out this simple fix).
Chuck.
Re: I know what the problem is....
I thought I read somewhere that QT based apps will lower the res of the movie to avoid dropping frames if the computer isn't able to playback the video smoothly. If I'm mistaken and that is not the case then the problem you have w/QT video is something specific to your machine(s). I've never seen poor QT playback on properly working machines unless they just didn't have the horsepower to playback the video smoothly.
Lethal
I thought I read somewhere that QT based apps will lower the res of the movie to avoid dropping frames if the computer isn't able to playback the video smoothly. If I'm mistaken and that is not the case then the problem you have w/QT video is something specific to your machine(s). I've never seen poor QT playback on properly working machines unless they just didn't have the horsepower to playback the video smoothly.
Lethal
Re: Re: I know what the problem is....
This happen only with the DV codec, no matter if is 320x240 at 15 frames, in the computer it is going to look like crap. If you opend iDVD or iMovie the clips are gonna lok ok, but some times if you leave the software and go back they may look crappy, but that is only in the computer, the output still fine.
I'm telling you this because I'm a VJ and I work and test every single codec in every single way. It is strange that Apple never mention that but there have been some discissions about it a long time ago.
This happen only with the DV codec, no matter if is 320x240 at 15 frames, in the computer it is going to look like crap. If you opend iDVD or iMovie the clips are gonna lok ok, but some times if you leave the software and go back they may look crappy, but that is only in the computer, the output still fine.
I'm telling you this because I'm a VJ and I work and test every single codec in every single way. It is strange that Apple never mention that but there have been some discissions about it a long time ago.
Re: Re: Re: I know what the problem is....
Like I said in my previous post I've read that FCP and iMovie will, to a point, reduce the quality of the video to ensure smooth playback. I'm not familair w/the "problem" you are talking about and I edit DV on a daily basis. but the machines I use are newer and/or have 3rd party hardware to boost performance. Maybe the DV footage is doing this because you are running older Macs?
Lethal
Like I said in my previous post I've read that FCP and iMovie will, to a point, reduce the quality of the video to ensure smooth playback. I'm not familair w/the "problem" you are talking about and I edit DV on a daily basis. but the machines I use are newer and/or have 3rd party hardware to boost performance. Maybe the DV footage is doing this because you are running older Macs?
Lethal
I think the original poster gave us too little information about his project and he seemed a bit too eager to blame everything on iDVD.
If he was starting with television reception then how good was his antenna? After that he went to VHS which was probably a consumer model recorder and a consumer-grade tape. Then he went to DV, which could be a camera acting as a converter, Mini DV tape recorded in the camera or a dedicated DV converter. Then he edited in iMovie but I am not sure how he exported; if he saved the movie for iDVD (producing a .MOV file) then that would be one less generation loss but if he exported a .DV file then that is one more generation loss. THEN, he encoded MPEG2 in iDVD but again we are not sure if the overall footage was less than 60 minutes (best quality) or between 60 and 90 minutes (Variable Bit Rate quality).
Now here is the (potentially) silly part: was he using the same video standard in all these applications? If he is in America, he should have been setting the iMovie and iDVD projects to the NTSC video standard. If he is in Australia or the UK he should be using the PAL standard. If he mixed up these settings then the mystery of the crappy video is solved, as the conversion can result in unpredictable colours and glitchy motion in the final video.
If he viewed the DVDs on his computer screen the compression would be more obvious than the same DVD on a television screen. This is because television screens have limited colour capabilities when compared with computer monitors. Computer monitors also make the interlacing found in .DV video and MPEG2 more blatant than a television.
Finally, let me point out that although by default QuickTime displays .DV video in a low-quality mode, you can force it to play back in high quality by pressing Command-J and selecting Video Track, High Quality and clicking on the High Quality Enabled check-box.
If he was starting with television reception then how good was his antenna? After that he went to VHS which was probably a consumer model recorder and a consumer-grade tape. Then he went to DV, which could be a camera acting as a converter, Mini DV tape recorded in the camera or a dedicated DV converter. Then he edited in iMovie but I am not sure how he exported; if he saved the movie for iDVD (producing a .MOV file) then that would be one less generation loss but if he exported a .DV file then that is one more generation loss. THEN, he encoded MPEG2 in iDVD but again we are not sure if the overall footage was less than 60 minutes (best quality) or between 60 and 90 minutes (Variable Bit Rate quality).
Now here is the (potentially) silly part: was he using the same video standard in all these applications? If he is in America, he should have been setting the iMovie and iDVD projects to the NTSC video standard. If he is in Australia or the UK he should be using the PAL standard. If he mixed up these settings then the mystery of the crappy video is solved, as the conversion can result in unpredictable colours and glitchy motion in the final video.
If he viewed the DVDs on his computer screen the compression would be more obvious than the same DVD on a television screen. This is because television screens have limited colour capabilities when compared with computer monitors. Computer monitors also make the interlacing found in .DV video and MPEG2 more blatant than a television.
Finally, let me point out that although by default QuickTime displays .DV video in a low-quality mode, you can force it to play back in high quality by pressing Command-J and selecting Video Track, High Quality and clicking on the High Quality Enabled check-box.
can someone tell me then this ...
if i use FCP to do my project (capture -> .m2v export) will i get better quality from a miniDV camera then if i use iMovie?
Also - what is DVCAM?
How do I improve the quality of my titles like you see on hollywood movies? They are supposedly using FCP .....
BTW - I have a 17" (16.1" viewable) Sony CRT running at 1280x1024.
If I run QT at full screen without High Quality set will i get a result like a TV - I am povo right now and can not afford the better gear. I am using FCP4 though ....
if i use FCP to do my project (capture -> .m2v export) will i get better quality from a miniDV camera then if i use iMovie?
Also - what is DVCAM?
How do I improve the quality of my titles like you see on hollywood movies? They are supposedly using FCP .....
BTW - I have a 17" (16.1" viewable) Sony CRT running at 1280x1024.
If I run QT at full screen without High Quality set will i get a result like a TV - I am povo right now and can not afford the better gear. I am using FCP4 though ....
if i use FCP to do my project (capture -> .m2v export) will i get better quality from a miniDV camera then if i use iMovie?
R: No, you get the same thing.
Also - what is DVCAM?
R: Another storage tape format, it is a tape bigger than miniDV, the codec is the same.
How do I improve the quality of my titles like you see on hollywood movies? They are supposedly using FCP .....
R: They have filters, they use another kind of cameras (film) and they use very expensive video output cards as well as recording devices.
BTW - I have a 17" (16.1" viewable) Sony CRT running at 1280x1024.
If I run QT at full screen without High Quality set will i get a result like a TV - I am povo right now and can not afford the better gear. I am using FCP4 though ....
R: Depends on the codec and the amount of video ram you have. The best choice is to get even a use Sony DVMC-DA 1 (or 2) converter to output the video via firewire to a TV at broadcast quality. The Sony cost about $100 used on eBay.
_____
About the DV codec FCP do skip frames depending on the computer, but I'm talking about playing the quicktime from the desktop in DV format.
R: No, you get the same thing.
Also - what is DVCAM?
R: Another storage tape format, it is a tape bigger than miniDV, the codec is the same.
How do I improve the quality of my titles like you see on hollywood movies? They are supposedly using FCP .....
R: They have filters, they use another kind of cameras (film) and they use very expensive video output cards as well as recording devices.
BTW - I have a 17" (16.1" viewable) Sony CRT running at 1280x1024.
If I run QT at full screen without High Quality set will i get a result like a TV - I am povo right now and can not afford the better gear. I am using FCP4 though ....
R: Depends on the codec and the amount of video ram you have. The best choice is to get even a use Sony DVMC-DA 1 (or 2) converter to output the video via firewire to a TV at broadcast quality. The Sony cost about $100 used on eBay.
_____
About the DV codec FCP do skip frames depending on the computer, but I'm talking about playing the quicktime from the desktop in DV format.
The quality of MiniDV is determined by how good of a camera you have. It doesn't matter what software you use MiniDV will look the same on brand new G5 w/FCP 4 or on an eMac w/iMovie.
And as long as you only transfer video via Firewire the quality will never degrade.
DVCAM is Sony's "pro" version of DV. The materials used to make the tapes is a bit higher quality and the format supports locked audio. The quality of the image captured is the same as MiniDV. DVCAM, like DV tapes, come in large tapes ("full sized") and small tapes ("mini").
You can improve the quality of your movies by shooting on 35mm film, then transfering to DigiBeta for you edit.
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.I'm not sure what you are asking in your last question though.
Lethal
EDIT: Sol, there is no gen loss if you export your DV footage as a self-containd DV movie. The computer just makes an exact copy of the movie. The only way to get gen loss is if you add compression upon export (like going from DV to mpeg2) or if you use analog i/o to transfer the footage between your camera and your computer.
Correction to the correction
There is no generation loss if you export from iMovie for iDVD because the application creates a self-contained movie of all the allready captured footage you used to edit. This is the same as creating a Final Cut Pro movie from that application. If however you export a .DV file the application re-renders the whole edit in that format.
There is no generation loss if you export from iMovie for iDVD because the application creates a self-contained movie of all the allready captured footage you used to edit. This is the same as creating a Final Cut Pro movie from that application. If however you export a .DV file the application re-renders the whole edit in that format.
Re: Correction to the correction
If you export "Project X" as an FCP movie and don't click "make self-contained" then it basically creates a ref movie that points to the source files (so no new media is actually created). If you click "make self-contained" then it actually creates new media which is an exact copy of the original media. If you have things in your project that need to be rendered(transistions, FX, ect.,) it will render them, but it will not add any more compression to the footage. Of course if you export it as a QT movie and use the DV-NTSC settings I'm sure more compression would be added, but exporting it as a FCP movie (assuming you don't lower the settings or anything) makes a 1:1 copy so there is no generation loss or added compression.
Lethal
If you export "Project X" as an FCP movie and don't click "make self-contained" then it basically creates a ref movie that points to the source files (so no new media is actually created). If you click "make self-contained" then it actually creates new media which is an exact copy of the original media. If you have things in your project that need to be rendered(transistions, FX, ect.,) it will render them, but it will not add any more compression to the footage. Of course if you export it as a QT movie and use the DV-NTSC settings I'm sure more compression would be added, but exporting it as a FCP movie (assuming you don't lower the settings or anything) makes a 1:1 copy so there is no generation loss or added compression.
Lethal
You might have missed it but I posted my success story a bit earlier. I never intended to blame iDVD but I had tried everything and wasted 12 DVDs with no luck. It took about 5 calls to Applecare to finally get someone who had even used iMovie and iDVD and could finally give me the solution to the problem.
I am HUGELY happy with the quality of iDVD now that I can see it was just a simple preference issue. I've since told my friend who had earlier resorted to just doing VHS tapes because of the same problem and now he's very happy too.
Chuck.