"Hoping the Windows support will hopefully outlast the MacOS support"
I have a 2012 Cheese Grater running Windows 11 very well. No MacOS installed on it.
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MP 7,1 Is it crazy to buy an Intel Mac Pro (2019) in 2022/2023?
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I have a 2012 Cheese Grater running Windows 11 very well. No MacOS installed on it.
Very well put....
As an example between 'real' memory and unified, I was running my 3D software/3D painting app/Affinity Photo/iTunes playing in the background/Mail/Calendar and Activity Monitor showed 21gb used of 32gb, no swap about 8% pressure.
As fast as AS macs appear, even running one tasking app puts memory pressure into yellow and uses swap.
Do you really think they will still announce something this year?
From all we heard the lineup for this years seems pretty final. Guess they may have had plans for some more hardware updates in the fall and they just postponed it for next year.
I also don't think they sees any pressure to just tease something now and then have it shipping only in spring.
Well of course?Very well put....
As an example between 'real' memory and unified, I was running my 3D software/3D painting app/Affinity Photo/iTunes playing in the background/Mail/Calendar and Activity Monitor showed 21gb used of 32gb, no swap about 8% pressure.
As fast as AS macs appear, even running one tasking app puts memory pressure into yellow and uses swap.
That's what unified memory is also video memory. If you have 32GB of RAM on Apple Sillicon. Some it is also used for graphics, display, compute and of course as RAM.
Thats why for real Pro work more than 64GB is needed on AS. The 8,1 better start at 64GB of RAM and not 32GB.
The reason in on the AS Macs are fast and snappy is because of their high single core CPU speeds.
They don't, particularly, but the Mac Pro is basically the one product Apple can talk about early and not impact sales, because if you're buying a 7,1 it's because you need a 7,1 now.
The Mac Pro is definitely the most interesting product to me because even this far into the transition it's tough to see exactly where the matrix is going to land (thanks, supply chain.) I imagine the brief "best of all possible worlds" 2019 Intel Mac landscape where you had Bootcamp support and eGPU support and stock video card options and upgradable storage and ram ain't coming back, but I'm also interested in what Apple really sees as a product above the Mac Studio, now that they've introduced it (where it's basically a less-upgradable but better-realized tube Mac Pro.)
I wouldn't count on the 7,1 getting more than one OS update after it's discontinued (so 2026ish ending support with security updates), but I'm sure there will be people who can drag it a little further, just like with the 4 and 5,1's. Besides, you should always buy the product as you need it now, rather than trying to spend all your time prognosticating the future.
Until your post I had never heard of a "Table of Authorities" and had to look it up. It appears to be limited to the legal profession? Or is it just a "Table of Contents" formatted for the legal profession?
That said I am not trying to defend Pages but, from the little research I've done, it doesn't appear to be used by a wide, relatively speaking, audience.
That's interesting. You never did a book report where the teacher asked you to give citations? Yes, it's used in the legal world, but it's also used for high school research papers, quite commonly (at least around the NY/NJ area). YMMV.
It's been a long time since I was in high school and at that time they offered typing classes
A bibliography is what we were required to use for any referenced material.
Not sure I follow. Processors are swappable on a 7,1 since they use Intel processors which can be purchased in various configurations from the general market. An 8,1 likely will have just Apple Processors which aren't available in the general marketplace, nor in various configurations, only as spare part for one to one replacements purchased from Apple.
So you have contacted Apple and they have said that there were no replacement motherboards or PSUs for a currently selling product...?
Right, but I'm suggesting that on top of that, the processor will be security coded to the motherboard, so that even if you have two machines, you're not going to be able to swap the cpus between them.
I can see a security reason for tying storage down (so you can’t yank it and get at the data), but a cpu!? Who would make a custom cpu that is compromised? That seems highly unlikely.
Not saying you’re wrong, just that the storage use case seems based in something plausible, while the cpu-bound case seems more based out of spite.
There are several ways to protect data at rest without having to lock the storage to a particular device. Apples goal is not as much security as it is about control.
Chain of trust - "the most secure Mac Pro ever", "Every component verified cryptographically with every other component".
The maker of a compromised CPU would be major industrial or state actor - the sort of entity where there's no door lock good enough to keep them from physically accessing the device. Apple can assert that the machine's cmponents are locked to each other in the factory, the user can be assured that none of the components have been altered in a way that could compromise them.
For example, the unsaid purpose of Apple's biometric locking on iPhones has always been "this is to stop the police reading the contents of your phone".
Whether that would be the practical reason for it, it's a significant marketing angle.
Fully agree with your sentiment that whatever the new AS Mac Pro will be, it most probably won't cut the "best of all possible worlds" approach. I am super curious as well about what it exactly will look like, can imagine it more like a faster and bigger version of the Mac Studio with some sort of expandability but not as much as the 2019 model. But it will be interesting what niche market they will exactly target with it.
I'd be really happy if Apple shared a first teaser of the future Mac Pro still this year, but I really don't see much benefit in it for them. From a marketing point of view I see it much more beneficial for them to announce it at a next Mac event in spring as the new ultimate and somewhat fastest computer one could buy and use these vibes of being the industry leader in performance (even if limited to a short time window and some specifically selected tests) to also announce some other Mac updates.
The last sentence you wrote is probably the best advice one can give. Thank you. 😊
Seriously? Nothing with Mac Pro's besides the storage, memory or processors are OTS components, since the first one was released back in 2006 and nothing changed with that, you always have to buy from Apple or used parts. While 3rd party GPUs can be used, AppleOEM GPUs are not OTS.
If you want readily available replacement parts, build a PC yourself, since even brand name PC workstations are not built from OTS components today.
This is a reality for a long time with the Intel BGA processors - you can't replace Intel i5/i7/i9 from a MB Air/MBP/mini without re-associating the processor to the logic board Intel ME firmware, a non-trivial procedure. This will only get worse over time since the introduction of security enclaves.
Yes, you can get them from Apple.
Gotcha hypocrisy,
. So now, why incite that no other Macs can be repaired, or components replaced, if fails. I am pretty sure you can also go to Apple to purchase a replacement to extend any other Mac's life and also pull parts from used hardware.
I'm not inciting any thing, LOL. I'm doing a simple statement and what @mattspace wrote is happening for years already, albeit in a slightly different way than he wrote.Yes, you can get them from Apple.
Gotcha hypocrisy,
Modern Macs that have Intel FCBGA processors, the specific processor is tied to the Intel ME firmware and any changes make the logic board incapable to initialize itself/a brick. After you de-solder the FCBGA processor and replace/upgraded it, the logic board won't boot until the Intel ME firmware is "reset" to accept the new processor.
Not a problem for someone looking at replacing a defective logic board, but is a whole new complexity level for someone capable component level repair.
Audio rate is a tiny fraction of video rate. So, modern hardware just lets you run more more audio tracks, and more DSP plugins at the same time. Most people don't require super high track counts, so that's not a limiting factor for most. Plus, at the same time, Intel-based hardware has only gotten incrementally faster the past 15 years, not like we're talking about '80s level computing. Sure, I gave up my 2009 Mac Pro two and a half years ago for a 2019, but it wasn't life-changing for music production. And being able to run the latest Mac OS is not important when you're living inside a DAW, so even TV and film scoring pros often run on the old Macs (SSDs, of course, but that's a cheap upgrade). They were reasonably quiet and all, which is important for music work (of course, I love that about the 2019 especially).
Video is a whole different story, because 4k video streams aren't viable (directly) on 15 year old hardware, much less all the real-time or just fast processing the new hardware brings.
I've been thinking of doing the same, especially now that the next gen Mac Pro is definitively AS, as expected. Now that we have heard the announcement, what is everyone thinking? I'm thinking now is the best time to buy a loaded Mac Pro that can run 4k 120hz games via Windows 11 in Bootcamp, and also in macOS, and squeeze the life out of it using OCLP once macOS gets to its final state among Macs. I feel like I have everything I need to interact with all my devices, and if my Mac Pro 5,1 has lasted me this long, and it's still a productive workhorse, an upgrade to a 2019 Mac Pro will easily suffice for at least 5 years.
Not crazy at all. I’m keeping my 7,1 for the foreseeable future.
I consider myself extremely fortunate to have acquired my 7,1 in 2020. I've continued to upgrade it and even found the wheels on eBay at a ridiculously low price. The next processor I would probably acquire has 24 cores and costs roughly 1.4k.
After this, I don't see myself paying Apple another $12 grand for a processor that is only suitable for mobile devices. I really feel that, at the absolute least, for this kind of computer—a workstation—GPU and RAM upgrades should be a very fundamental and required feature. Sadly, the 8,1 is only a facade of that machine.
So to keep the thread going, theres never been a better time than now to buy a 7, 1.
After this, I don't see myself paying Apple another $12 grand for a processor that is only suitable for mobile devices. I really feel that, at the absolute least, for this kind of computer—a workstation—GPU and RAM upgrades should be a very fundamental and required feature. Sadly, the 8,1 is only a facade of that machine.
So to keep the thread going, theres never been a better time than now to buy a 7, 1.
