Is It Me? Why Does It Seem No One Minds Apple's new Machines Are NOT UPGRADABLE?

[gemini62167]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

So, I just received an email that "I've been warned" that I was going against Apple's community forums and that I would have my "privileges" suspended due to breaking their community standards, lol.

Really...

While asking why Apple Music doesn't shuffle properly, I also mentioned that I won't be buying the new iMac M3 or any of the other new machines because none of them are upgradable. You have to pay $200 per upgrade per step AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, otherwise, neither the user nor Apple can upgrade them afterward. If you don't believe me, just go through the purchasing process of one of their machines on their site, and read the statement for yourself.

Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers.

I am amazed that I seldom hear any complaints from anyone that none of the new machines allow for future upgrades, neither by the user nor by Apple once the system is ordered and out the door. Their recommendation is to anticipate all the internal storage, RAM, etc., that you will need and order it as upgrades at the time of purchase. Of course, for a hefty Apple premium of $200 a step. Meaning 256G SSD to 564 will cost $200. Going from 8G RAM to 16 will cost you $200. And on and on. I bought a 2T Samsung external SSD only a few months ago for $100, so this is nuts.

Yet, all I see when it comes to the reviews is people fawning over the many colors the iMacs come in now. Really? When did the thing's decorative compatibility become so much more than what it was meant for? Computing.

Now, anyone... If you can successfully convince this thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy why his next computer should still be an Apple, bless your tiny little heart. Because I've already found three machines made by name brand PC companies that are faster than the M3, come with 16G of RAM 1T or 2T internal SSDs, for less than the iMac M3 and did I say, they've been clocked in as far speedier than the M3?

I've had it. I don't like being rooked, nor forced into spending money unnecessarily. But it would seem over the past ten years, Apple has increasingly changed its focus from producing machines that just work, to machines that just work only if you're willing to subscribe to more and more iCloud space, Apple Music, or this or that. I want a computer that computes, not turns me into a walking credit card for an already very wealthy company (the second most valuable company in the nation behind Microsoft at the moment). As much as I don't like Windows, having worked on them for decades, I can learn to live with the increased amount of access to computing that I seem to have lost these past few years if need be.

 

[dmr727]

Huh? I'd be willing to bet this board has thousands of posts discussing this very thing over the years (and it didn't just start at the transition to AS). Where have you been? I find it hard to believe that you've been a 'thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy' if you're just realizing these things now.

 

[jz0309]

I don't even remember since when soldered RAM/SSD have become standard for MacBooks, a decade? And as @dmr727 says, there have been thousands, 10s of thousands posts about this here on MR. And, you find the same in the windows world, not every model but the higher end ones have soldered RAM/SSD ...

 

[tornado99]

Part of it is a genuine performance reason. The transfer speed between SSD and RAM can be faster than if it was on an interface slot such as NVME.

 

[thebart]

There are lots of people here complaining about it. And these are people who've already bought in. I'm one of them

But what can you do? The only thing you can do is not buy. Apple doesn't give a crap what we think

There's much more anger and vituperation from developers big and small over their app store policies. Apple is getting a lot more flak and regulatory scrutiny over THAT and their attitude is pretty much no it's the children who are wrong. They answer to no one except their shareholders, who will punish them if their profit margins drop ever so slightly

 

[fatTribble]

I haven’t thought about upgrading my own computer since my last desktop PC in the early 90s. Since then I’ve had PC laptops and one MacBook that were never as easy as desktop PCs to upgrade yourself. I doubt the use cases of the average buyer change dramatically over the life of their device. If they buy something for school work but later need something for processing video or gaming they’d likely just buy a new machine.

Computers aren’t just for computer people. It seems pretty reasonable for someone to get excited about the color of their computer just like someone would get more excited about the color of a car than the engine specs. Most people i know wouldn’t say they’re buying a computer to do computing.

The price is the price.

 

[MarkC426]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

So, I just received an email that "I've been warned" that I was going against Apple's community forums and that I would have my "privileges" suspended due to breaking their community standards, lol.

Really...

While asking why Apple Music doesn't shuffle properly, I also mentioned that I won't be buying the new iMac M3 or any of the other new machines because none of them are upgradable. You have to pay $200 per upgrade per step AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, otherwise, neither the user nor Apple can upgrade them afterward. If you don't believe me, just go through the purchasing process of one of their machines on their site, and read the statement for yourself.

Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers.

I am amazed that I seldom hear any complaints from anyone that none of the new machines allow for future upgrades, neither by the user nor by Apple once the system is ordered and out the door. Their recommendation is to anticipate all the internal storage, RAM, etc., that you will need and order it as upgrades at the time of purchase. Of course, for a hefty Apple premium of $200 a step. Meaning 256G SSD to 564 will cost $200. Going from 8G RAM to 16 will cost you $200. And on and on. I bought a 2T Samsung external SSD only a few months ago for $100, so this is nuts.

Yet, all I see when it comes to the reviews is people fawning over the many colors the iMacs come in now. Really? When did the thing's decorative compatibility become so much more than what it was meant for? Computing.

Now, anyone... If you can successfully convince this thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy why his next computer should still be an Apple, bless your tiny little heart. Because I've already found three machines made by name brand PC companies that are faster than the M3, come with 16G of RAM 1T or 2T internal SSDs, for less than the iMac M3 and did I say, they've been clocked in as far speedier than the M3?

I've had it. I don't like being rooked, nor forced into spending money unnecessarily. But it would seem over the past ten years, Apple has increasingly changed its focus from producing machines that just work, to machines that just work only if you're willing to subscribe to more and more iCloud space, Apple Music, or this or that. I want a computer that computes, not turns me into a walking credit card for an already very wealthy company (the second most valuable company in the nation behind Microsoft at the moment). As much as I don't like Windows, having worked on them for decades, I can learn to live with the increased amount of access to computing that I seem to have lost these past few years if need be.

Your preaching to the choir....
As mentioned above, Macs have had non-upgradeable parts for many years.

As a long time Mac Pro user (12 years), I was accustomed to easy upgrades.
BUT I took the plunge and moved to a Studio, and am very happy.

If your not happy with the options, look elsewhere.

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

I just accept this is Apple's Design philosophy. I buy it anyway because these machines provide what I want. If I want more modular upgradability I'll buy a WIndows based PC. And I do both because currently both platforms do not necessarily do the 100% best in their respective use case. So for me AAA title gaming Apple doesn't care about. But for other general computing needs Apple excels in this to me. But office software I still use MSFT 365. So I more curate the stuff into each category of use case I use these devices.

 

[FNH15]

I can’t tell if this is a troll post. Consternation over soldered RAM has been there since the 2008 MacBook Air days.
Educating oneself about how Apple Silicon is constructed would answer many of those questions. Is it annoying that you can’t upgrade the SSD or RAM after the fact? Yes? Does it make sense given how Apple Silicon is constructed? Yes.

The Refurbished section of Apple.com has some excellent options too. You can pick up a 24GB/512GB iMac there if you wish. Or since it’s a desktop machine, plug in an external Thunderbolt SSD of your choosing.

And if you’ve really owned Macs for 30+ years, you’ll remember the PowerPC days, and how clock speed isn’t everything (regarding the processor comparisons). If the crap that is Windows 11 suits you, then fine, best of luck.

 

[neuropsychguy]

There are lots of people here complaining about it. And these are people who've already bought in. I'm one of them

But what can you do? The only thing you can do is not buy. Apple doesn't give a crap what we think

This is true. Apple cares about the vast majority of people who don't spend time on MacRumors who buy Apple computers. Most of these people don't care about upgradability. Maybe they wouldn't mind if it was an option and they could pay someone to do an upgrade for them, but MR commenters are not like most people. We are an odd crowd. Then, you have the subset of MacRumors commenters who care about upgradability. That's an even smaller (but not odder) crowd. There are many people who care about upgradability but only a small percent of people who do (evidence for this? I'm mostly making this up but it's based on my experience and educated guesses about what percent of people in the world ever open up their computer or would open it up to stick in more RAM, if that was an option).

For the record, Steve Jobs never really wanted Macs upgradable. He wanted them to be appliances that were a closed box. The fact that current Macs are largely not upgradable is completely in line with Jobs’s vision. Woz and others at early Apple had other ideas, but Jobs and his legacy primarily won out.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Apple didn't try and force you to do anything and you haven't lost any money on a product you didn't buy.

Almost all of the new computers today and non user upgrade friendly. No need to rant about the obvious that won't be changing. It is a waste of time. And it is not the forums job to try and convince you to buy Apple again. That is also a waste of time and energy.

It always amazes me how so many people on here are always looking for self validation of personal, subjective opinion.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

Everybody hated it at first. Everybody hated the loss of all the great features that made the unibody macbook pros popular, too. Everybody hated it when Steve Jobs died, when they killed the 17" MBP one year too soon, hated the loss of a 2nd drive bay, the stupidly low ram and the stupidly high price of it, the lack of local storage to sell us cloud services instead, the loss of 32bit app compatibility, the iPad never getting a full featured macOS "pro" model, flooding the world with a hundred trillion ipods that today can't even be used with a modern mac bc who cares why, pretending to be "green" while building hardware to last a century and expecting us to dispose of it every couple few years anyway, their failure to support their own apps on prior OS's, junky cameras, defective antennas, faulty keyboards, more faulty keyboards, form over function, uninstallable photo & video codec problems, hardware that both self destructs and prevents anyone from fixing it, the loss of Boot Camp & Windows compatibility, a hundred other ways of ensuring planned/forced obsolescence, using us all as beta testers, giving us less value for more money every year, generally taking us for granted & milking us for every dime, ignoring of the same problems in the OS year in and year out while blowing billions developing half-baked products and pipe dreams that go nowhere, and changing from Apple Computer to Apple Total Entertainment or whatever they're calling themselves now.

I think that about covers most of the subjects of several million discussion posts on here. Everyone hates everything, and we just stomach as much as we can and grumble a bit while continuing to give them money to keep doing it, until one day there's just too much to accept and we start screaming and throw the photocopier down the stairwell and get escorted out by company security. Every day there's a post from someone on here who's had it, and every semester I have 240 new fresh faced students show up with brand new shiny Macbook Pro's anyway, purchased at interest, who don't know or care about any of it. As long as the cute girls use macs, and the guys that want to be with the cute girls also have them, and all the other kids who want to be like the cute girls and guys, this trend continues, and the magical money steamroller just rolls on.

Ultimately, most people just have more to worry about than the ups and downs of the company that makes one of their possessions.

 

[picpicmac]

I can’t tell if this is a troll post.

Surprising number of posts I suspect could be labeled "troll" posts, at least in certain forums.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Go buy a Framework? Apple MacBooks haven't "upgradeable" in a decade.

 

[fatTribble]

Just thought of this from ye olden days. If I remember correctly it was never as simple to upgrade a desktop PC as it seemed. There were often dependencies between the parts, like the CPU wouldn’t take advantage of faster RAM because of the system bus speed as an example. Feel free to make fun as it’s all a blur. Even to add just more RAM there were only so many slots and the cards all had to be the same capacity so you sometimes had to toss your existing RAM and replace them all. And I think upgrading the CPU was often the most difficult. Apologies for the vague stories. My point was that it was seldom as easy as opening a compartment and adding a card or chip.

 

[HiVolt]

It's because we keep buying the stuff, Apple gets away with it. It's not about thickness or anything, Framework makes a very similarly sized laptop that has everything modular and upgradeable.

And Apple conditioned people slowly... First it was RAM, then the SSD, then glueing the battery, the entirely glued together screens, etc...

I myself haven't bought an Apple laptop since the original Intel MacBook, which I stopped using in 2011, I've just gone back to PC laptops.

 

[picpicmac]

Maybe if people looked at the 60 year history of the computer business this whole cry about "upgradeability" seems a bit weird.

Many old companies made their money by maintenance, by "upgrading" installed systems. IBM was notorious for this but they all did it. These companies sold cabinets full of racks, in which the customer paid the computer company to come out and add things or upgrade boards.

The irony is.... some of that was really not necessary. It's just how the computer companies roped in their customers to keep paying them month after month, year after year.

But the electronics industry was moving on.

Including Apple.

The original Macintosh was not internally upgradeable.

That's right: it was Steve Jobs who wanted a closed box.

And while that after a couple of years was changed and Apple embraced internal upgrades, and then jumped on the NuBus bandwagon (I had one (two?) of those), today Apple is leading the industry to switch to small, low energy consumption computers, the internals of which are all assembled with robots and no humans are intended to climb back inside.

And the industry as a whole is (slowly) leaving behind this idea of customers needing to tinker with the insides of their computers.

The day of the DIMM is over. Just like the floppy drive, the DIMM is becoming a thing of the past.

 

[Lift Bar]

Apple has this all figured out and they're never going to change their approach. I would be one of the (few?) users willing to buy a new MacBook, or iMac, or Mac Studio, or Mac mini (can’t afford or justify a Mac Pro) for a couple thousand dollars if I could upgrade to a larger SSD later if needed. Since I can't, I'm sticking with my old laptop.

The profit margins are so huge for Apple that they're not going to change their strategy, as most people will either upgrade at purchase for a huge cost or just buy one with lesser storage.

Complaining won't do any good.

 

[Bobbuilds69]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

So, I just received an email that "I've been warned" that I was going against Apple's community forums and that I would have my "privileges" suspended due to breaking their community standards, lol.

Really...

While asking why Apple Music doesn't shuffle properly, I also mentioned that I won't be buying the new iMac M3 or any of the other new machines because none of them are upgradable. You have to pay $200 per upgrade per step AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, otherwise, neither the user nor Apple can upgrade them afterward. If you don't believe me, just go through the purchasing process of one of their machines on their site, and read the statement for yourself.

Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers.

I am amazed that I seldom hear any complaints from anyone that none of the new machines allow for future upgrades, neither by the user nor by Apple once the system is ordered and out the door. Their recommendation is to anticipate all the internal storage, RAM, etc., that you will need and order it as upgrades at the time of purchase. Of course, for a hefty Apple premium of $200 a step. Meaning 256G SSD to 564 will cost $200. Going from 8G RAM to 16 will cost you $200. And on and on. I bought a 2T Samsung external SSD only a few months ago for $100, so this is nuts.

Yet, all I see when it comes to the reviews is people fawning over the many colors the iMacs come in now. Really? When did the thing's decorative compatibility become so much more than what it was meant for? Computing.

Now, anyone... If you can successfully convince this thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy why his next computer should still be an Apple, bless your tiny little heart. Because I've already found three machines made by name brand PC companies that are faster than the M3, come with 16G of RAM 1T or 2T internal SSDs, for less than the iMac M3 and did I say, they've been clocked in as far speedier than the M3?

I've had it. I don't like being rooked, nor forced into spending money unnecessarily. But it would seem over the past ten years, Apple has increasingly changed its focus from producing machines that just work, to machines that just work only if you're willing to subscribe to more and more iCloud space, Apple Music, or this or that. I want a computer that computes, not turns me into a walking credit card for an already very wealthy company (the second most valuable company in the nation behind Microsoft at the moment). As much as I don't like Windows, having worked on them for decades, I can learn to live with the increased amount of access to computing that I seem to have lost these past few years if need be.

Not again 😪

 

[Smigit]

People don’t necessarily like it however this started coming in about a decade ago (if not longer) with the MacBooks and I think most people have just accepted this is what the situation is, having already complained about it. Reviewers aren’t going to keep repeating this point when the previous n generations of the same device had the same concessions.

Same with removable batteries in phones not being expected nowadays.

As someone that would upgrade RAM and storage, I also miss it. At the same time the SoC designs with shared memory etc do have benefits performance and efficiency wise, but don’t lend themselves to part swap out. There is pros with the cons. Now days it’s not just an arbitrarily soldered on memory or storage chip, but rather the memory/storage is fundamentally part of the processor and this is a significant contributor to the performance of these systems.

 

[Isamilis]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

So, I just received an email that "I've been warned" that I was going against Apple's community forums and that I would have my "privileges" suspended due to breaking their community standards, lol.

Really...

While asking why Apple Music doesn't shuffle properly, I also mentioned that I won't be buying the new iMac M3 or any of the other new machines because none of them are upgradable. You have to pay $200 per upgrade per step AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, otherwise, neither the user nor Apple can upgrade them afterward. If you don't believe me, just go through the purchasing process of one of their machines on their site, and read the statement for yourself.

Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers.

I am amazed that I seldom hear any complaints from anyone that none of the new machines allow for future upgrades, neither by the user nor by Apple once the system is ordered and out the door. Their recommendation is to anticipate all the internal storage, RAM, etc., that you will need and order it as upgrades at the time of purchase. Of course, for a hefty Apple premium of $200 a step. Meaning 256G SSD to 564 will cost $200. Going from 8G RAM to 16 will cost you $200. And on and on. I bought a 2T Samsung external SSD only a few months ago for $100, so this is nuts.

Yet, all I see when it comes to the reviews is people fawning over the many colors the iMacs come in now. Really? When did the thing's decorative compatibility become so much more than what it was meant for? Computing.

Now, anyone... If you can successfully convince this thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy why his next computer should still be an Apple, bless your tiny little heart. Because I've already found three machines made by name brand PC companies that are faster than the M3, come with 16G of RAM 1T or 2T internal SSDs, for less than the iMac M3 and did I say, they've been clocked in as far speedier than the M3?

I've had it. I don't like being rooked, nor forced into spending money unnecessarily. But it would seem over the past ten years, Apple has increasingly changed its focus from producing machines that just work, to machines that just work only if you're willing to subscribe to more and more iCloud space, Apple Music, or this or that. I want a computer that computes, not turns me into a walking credit card for an already very wealthy company (the second most valuable company in the nation behind Microsoft at the moment). As much as I don't like Windows, having worked on them for decades, I can learn to live with the increased amount of access to computing that I seem to have lost these past few years if need be.

Simple answer. Because most of active users here are long time Apple users. It’s been common understanding for us to accept this situation, as we had been complaining since many many years ago.

 

[Algus]

Now that Intel Macs no longer really exist, I don't care as much anymore. Back in the Intel era one of my wishlist devices was a hobbyist machine that I could do all of this stuff on. In the end, Apple's design with AS provides value to me so I don't mind the soldered components. If I want a product that is modular I can go buy it. There are vendors catering to my needs for both desktops and laptops. Linux has improved in usability by leaps and bounds and 99% of the software I use on my Mac is also available on Linux.

Ultimately the types of devices Apple are selling is but one approach and I don't particularly hate that for them, particularly when I have many great options besides Apple if I want something different.

This is definitely not a new concern. If we go dig up that "The new Mac mini is surely coming" thread that got started back in 2012, there's tons of howling on it about how the machine wasn't upgradeable once the 2014 unit launched. That is for sure one reason why I never upgraded my own mini in the Intel era.

 

[erikkfi]

Apple has slowly changed the culture of the techie types who frequent forums like this. You can see just in this thread plenty of people reflexively defending Apple with vapid comments like "no one is forcing you to buy..." and so on. The tech community used to be made up of people who would riot at anti-consumer stuff like soldered memory and on-device app distribution monopolies. Remember when tech people rioted after Intel put user-retrievable serial numbers in Pentium 3 processors? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

It's hard to know who you're talking to online. A lot of very vocal people here have AAPL stock and it's in their interest to aggressively defend Apple's strategic move toward mandatory first-party high-profit upgrades. The real old-school tech people hate this stuff. But, here's the rub... most of us buy Macs anyway. The only way to stop this kind of practice would be for a sizable block of people to exit Macs for personal computing, and that's not happening. So I'd say refrain from buying if it makes you feel good, but most consumers don't notice this, and even among those that do, most have accepted it, however grudgingly.

It's bad for the environment (if your SSD stops working you may as well throw out the whole machine), it's bad for consumers (no competition for storage and memory costs), but we accept it anyway.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I care about upgradability in my workstations/desktops. I use an AMD Threadripper/Nvidia Workstation running Linux/windows. But, I love my 64 GB M1 Max MBP16. Unified memory is god send for some of my workflows. My RTX 4090 has only 24 GB memory and runs out of memory. But my MBP with 64 GB does just fine with GPU accessing big chunk of UInified memory. I am hoping by my next upgrade M5 MBP can support 256 GB memory. I don’t care about SSD, as I use external devices with more than 30 TB storage.

 

[shapesinaframe]

Apple has actively avoided upgradeability from the get go (Source: https://www.folklore.org/Diagnostic_Port.html)

Apple's other co-founder, Steve Jobs, didn't agree with Jef about many things, but they both felt the same way about hardware expandability: it was a bug instead of a feature. Steve was reportedly against having slots in the Apple II back in the days of yore, and felt even stronger about slots for the Mac. He decreed that the Macintosh would remain perpetually bereft of slots, enclosed in a tightly sealed case, with only the limited expandability of the two serial ports.

But once again, Steve Jobs objected, because he didn't like the idea of customers mucking with the innards of their computer. He would also rather have them buy a new 512K Mac instead of them buying more RAM from a third-party.