Is it worth it - upgrading to Monterey via OCLP without a Metal GPU?

[unclemiltie]

I've got a couple of older laptops (2011 Air and 2010 MBP) that are both running High Sierra. Safari iss woefully out of date and the Chromium based Brave tells me that I need to update to get security updates but those won't install on HighSierra.

I've built and installed Montery on my Air but it seems sluggish. I dont use it all that often, most of my time is spent on my Metal-GPU-upgraded 2011 iMac that works just fine with Monterey thank you.

So in order to get more modern browsers (primarily) and some other stuff, it is worth the performance hit? And how bad will it really be to have a non-metal GPU?

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Daily reminder that Chromium Legacy exists if you'd like to use modern Chromium on High Sierra. Not sure it's received a lot of testing on High Sierra compared to older OS's (Mavericks etc) but it does work there.

 

[Heindijs]

If you're going non-Metal you might as well install Catalina. From my experience Sonoma doesn't seem to run any worse than Monterey on non-Metal too but Catalina might be the perfect middle ground in working perfectly on non metal while still being somewhat modern.

 

[eyoungren]

If it's just a modern browser you need, then I would just say that Vivaldi runs on High Sierra and is a current, modern browser.

 

[TheShortTimer]

If it's just a modern browser you need, then I would just say that Vivaldi runs on High Sierra and is a current, modern browser.

Absolutely: as does Firefox - I'm on the ESR pathway and continue to receive updates under High Sierra. SeaLion, which is compatible with Lion and upwards - thanks to the terrific efforts of @wicknix is another option too. These days it's not necessary to upgrade your OS just to get access to browsers.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I don't mean to take anything away from SeaLion, but it's based on an older version of Firefox and some sites won't work as a result—that's probably not what OP meant by modern browser.

Vivaldi is based on Chromium like Brave, sadly it will probably drop support for High Sierra soon, they're probably a tad behind upstream.

 

[wicknix]

I don't mean to take anything away from SeaLion, but it's based on an older version of Firefox and some sites won't work as a result—that's probably not what OP meant by modern browser.

Vivaldi is based on Chromium like Brave, sadly it will probably drop support for High Sierra soon, they're probably a tad behind upstream.

None taken. However every browser is based on an older version. They just add improvements, new code on top, security updates, etc. UXP is doing the same. It's pretty much now on par with FF102 minus DRM/EME support for security and licensing reasons. Heck even current firefox doesn't even work on every site because g00gle created some new fangled garbage code that only works on chrome (and it's variants). With that said, it's a full fledged browser that's less than 100MB installed, it's light on resources, it's more secure than chrome/firefox/vivaldi/brave/opera/etc, it doesn't "spy" on you or "phone home" to big brother, it still works on 98% of the modern web, it gets updated monthly, and it's UI is fully customizable unlike the others. I don't know about you, but to me and many others those features (or in some cases, the lack there of) are more important than being "chrome compliant".

Cheers

 

[TheShortTimer]

I don't mean to take anything away from SeaLion, but it's based on an older version of Firefox and some sites won't work as a result—that's probably not what OP meant by modern browser.

Which sites from your experience don't work with SeaLion? I've thrown the most popular sites at it and they worked - some fine-tuning was required here and there but @wicknix helped me with that. Perhaps these sites could be addressed in a future update if he has the energy?

Vivaldi is based on Chromium like Brave, sadly it will probably drop support for High Sierra soon, they're probably a tad behind upstream.

Firefox ESR by its very nature enjoys long-term support. I'm using it to type this reply under High Sierra.

Heck even current firefox doesn't even work on every site because g00gle created some new fangled garbage code that only works on chrome (and it's variants).

Quite. I use Opera on my Android phone and experience problems with sites failing to load/display correctly or at all.

With that said, it's a full fledged browser that's less than 100MB installed, it's light on resources, it's more secure than chrome/firefox/vivaldi/brave/opera/etc, it doesn't "spy" on you or "phone home" to big brother, it still works on 98% of the modern web, and it's UI is fully customizable unlike the others. I don't know about you, but to me and many others those features (or in some cases, the lack there of) are more important than being "chrome compliant".

Cheers

Count me among that group. Again, thanks so much for creating and maintaining this marvel - and all for free.

 

[throAU]

It's at the point now where if you want to run that hardware you really need to consider whether connecting it to the internet at all (never mind browsing the general internet) is a good idea.

If you do want to do this, you'd be best off running Linux on it so that the base OS and associated libraries/frameworks get upgraded for security fixes.

 

[wicknix]

If you do want to do this, you'd be best off running Linux on it so that the base OS and associated libraries/frameworks get upgraded for security fixes.

While i'm a huge Linux fan, and have been using it since 1996, if the OP uses OCLP to install 12.7, your suggestion is mute. Monterery is still supported for another year, and just got an update 2 weeks ago (12.7.1). The reason people use MacOS is for the software. Windows and Linux don't have jack when it comes to good audio/video production software for instance.

As for the OP's original question, go for it. I installed 12.7.1 on my 2009 macbook pro. It runs just as well as 10.11 did. It has a cheap $12 netac 128gb SSD and 6gb ram installed. No issues whatsoever, other than the built in maps.app doesn't work due to lack of metal gpu. Everything else i've thrown at it so far has been fine.

Cheers

 

[throAU]

While i'm a huge Linux fan, and have been using it since 1996, if the OP uses OCLP to install 12.7, your suggestion is mute. Monterery is still supported for another year, and just got an update 2 weeks ago (12.7.1). The reason people use MacOS is for the software. Windows and Linux don't have jack when it comes to audio/video production software for instance.

Sure, but you need to plan. Rather than get to NEXT year and then come up to the inevitable anyway.

And yes I use macOS for the software too, and that's fine. Use it offline, or at the very least - don't use it as a general internet browsing machine - and then the question of browser is "moot" (not mute).

 

[wicknix]

Fair enough. However we are not limited to Monterery. With OCLP MacOS 13 and 14 are also available. That still gives us a few more years of updates. Until Apple drops Intel support entirely these "old" machines can unofficially still run the latest and greatest. When that happens then yes, Linux, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, HaikuOS, Windows, etc could prolong the life of these old devices a bit longer.

 

[sdfox7]

I have 3 21.5" 2011 iMacs running Monterey with OCLP. I upgraded them to SSD and 32GB RAM. Everything I need to use works. Apple Maps doesn't work but Google Maps does. iMovie doesn't work but Adobe Creative does.

Stay away from Metal apps (Apple!) and you'll be fine.

 

[avz]

If you're going non-Metal you might as well install Catalina. From my experience Sonoma doesn't seem to run any worse than Monterey on non-Metal too but Catalina might be the perfect middle ground in working perfectly on non metal while still being somewhat modern.

I am still using Mojave on my Late 2008 unibody MacBook but if I ever get desperate in terms of the browser support I will likely move to Catalina. If I remember correctly Apple Maps were working on my Late 2008 unibody under the Catalina.

 

[MacCraig Pro]

I’d say don’t bother with OCLP. I installed Monterey on my 2012 MBP w/8Gb & an SSD recently and it was woefully slow.

Took about two minutes to boot and ran unbelievably hot all the time!

I reverted back to Catalina in the end and installed Windows 10 to give more modern functionality.

 

[alicela1n]

I've got a couple of older laptops (2011 Air and 2010 MBP) that are both running High Sierra. Safari iss woefully out of date and the Chromium based Brave tells me that I need to update to get security updates but those won't install on HighSierra.

I've built and installed Montery on my Air but it seems sluggish. I dont use it all that often, most of my time is spent on my Metal-GPU-upgraded 2011 iMac that works just fine with Monterey thank you.

So in order to get more modern browsers (primarily) and some other stuff, it is worth the performance hit? And how bad will it really be to have a non-metal GPU?

I have a 13" 2010 MacBook Pro with a Core 2 Duo P8800 and NVIDIA Geforce 320M and I've tested Monterey on it, it's really slow, you can use it but it's not a good experience, on a 2011 Air it might run better, I'm not sure. If you are after an up to date web browser you can use Chromium Legacy which runs on High Sierra, alternatively you can install a Linux distro of your choice.

 

[Sr.Freson]

I'm currently writing this from my mid 2010 i5 27" imac, with Monterey 12.7.1

It's obvious that is not as fast as my work m1 macbook air, but to me , it's perfectly usable. I was thinking to change it with a new m3 iMac 27", but as it wasn't released, I will continue with my 13 years device

 

[sdfox7]

I’d say don’t bother with OCLP. I installed Monterey on my 2012 MBP w/8Gb & an SSD recently and it was woefully slow.

Took about two minutes to boot and ran unbelievably hot all the time!

I reverted back to Catalina in the end and installed Windows 10 to give more modern functionality.

My 2011 iMacs have quad core processors and 32GB RAM. They run Monterey perfectly. Using a dual core laptop with only 8GB RAM like yours likely hurts performance a lot.

I wouldn't try Monterey on anything with 8GB of RAM unless it's a quad core i5/i7 or an M1, M2, etc.

 

[MacCraig Pro]

Do you think Big Sur would work better?

 

[wicknix]

Odd. I have no issues with 12.7.1 on my 2009 core 2 duo macbook pro with 6gb ram. It runs just as good as 10.11 did. No overheating, no long boot times, nothing. It just works.

 

[MacCraig Pro]

Odd. I have no issues with 12.7.1 on my 2009 core 2 duo macbook pro with 6gb ram. It runs just as good as 10.11 did. No overheating, no long boot times, nothing. It just works.

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Weird! I don’t have any issues with it under Catalina or Windows 10. Also it has a new Kioxia SSD too.

I might try again with Big Sur.

 

[chaosbunny]

Odd. I have no issues with 12.7.1 on my 2009 core 2 duo macbook pro with 6gb ram. It runs just as good as 10.11 did. No overheating, no long boot times, nothing. It just works.

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Same with my white 2010 2.4 ghz C2D MacBook and my wifes 2011 Mac mini. With ssds and 16gb ram Montery works great on these machines. I guess it boils down to ones subjective expectations.

 

[MacCraig Pro]

Big Sur is working really well on my 2012 MBP now actually. Not sure what went wrong with Monterey.

 

[alicela1n]

Odd. I have no issues with 12.7.1 on my 2009 core 2 duo macbook pro with 6gb ram. It runs just as good as 10.11 did. No overheating, no long boot times, nothing. It just works.

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Likely super subjective, I am used to my M1 MacBook Air so the 2010 MBP feels incredibly slow in comparison. High Sierra definitely feels faster than Monterey on it, I think it's mainly due to the GPU. The CPU usage is also incredibly high on Monterey compared to High Sierra.

 

[sdfox7]

Likely super subjective, I am used to my M1 MacBook Air so the 2010 MBP feels incredibly slow in comparison. High Sierra definitely feels faster than Monterey on it, I think it's mainly due to the GPU. The CPU usage is also incredibly high on Monterey compared to High Sierra.

I don't think any Intel Mac is going to feel as fast as Apple Silicon. The memory architecture was completely overhauled.

What's fast enough? That's subjective. Grandma who checks email and Facebook is likely happy with an Intel and 8GB RAM.