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Is it Wrong to Buy a MacPro for Gaming?
- Thread starter SirWilliam
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maybe i would do the following: purchase a nice gaming pc and a mac mini. replace the slow mac mini harddrive with an 7200rpm hd or a ssd.
get a nice kvm switch (switching with keyboard not pushing dammned buttons on the switch) and you are ready to go.
working on mac mini, gaming on pc.
switching between them with a few keystrokes. thats it.
besides: i had NEVER driver problems on all my mac pro(s) over the time with bootcamp.
just de-install the graphic drivers and install new and actual ones from ati or nvidia.
get a nice kvm switch (switching with keyboard not pushing dammned buttons on the switch) and you are ready to go.
working on mac mini, gaming on pc.
switching between them with a few keystrokes. thats it.
besides: i had NEVER driver problems on all my mac pro(s) over the time with bootcamp.
just de-install the graphic drivers and install new and actual ones from ati or nvidia.
It wouldn't be wrong. But you'll get far more bang for your buck with a windows PC for gaming. Of course, since you were so impressed with your father's 27" iMac, you could get that (refurbished) and a good gaming PC for the price of a new mac pro.
Right now a refurbished 27" iMac is $1269. Another $1200 would give you a very nice gaming PC. That would be about the price of a new Mac Pro. If you want you can adjust for the price of cheap monitor and still a nice gaming PC.
Right now a refurbished 27" iMac is $1269. Another $1200 would give you a very nice gaming PC. That would be about the price of a new Mac Pro. If you want you can adjust for the price of cheap monitor and still a nice gaming PC.
just to offer a counterpoint the mac pro is a pretty solid machine, and it makes it fun to game on. you dont have to worry about overheating, crappy underpowered power supplies, etc. i got tired of running a jalopy pc and the mac pro is very solid. i do game on mine and like it.
The GPU is the heart of gaming
You will get stuck with the video card. I went down this route with my 2008 Mac Pro. I tried to integrate gaming into the mac to justify the price even more, but it's a no go. I had a gut feeling that the Intel switch would also bring recent and cheaper GPU options. I was wrong...
Build a proper gaming pc for 1000 USD and you're golden! Perfect gaming performance with the latest hardware. Gaming should be separated because silence is not that important with a gaming PC and incremental GPU upgrades are cheap versus the now "outdated" and expensive 5870 mac version. In fact the whole mac platform suffers from poor 3D support at software level too but that's another rant.
You will get stuck with the video card. I went down this route with my 2008 Mac Pro. I tried to integrate gaming into the mac to justify the price even more, but it's a no go. I had a gut feeling that the Intel switch would also bring recent and cheaper GPU options. I was wrong...
Build a proper gaming pc for 1000 USD and you're golden! Perfect gaming performance with the latest hardware. Gaming should be separated because silence is not that important with a gaming PC and incremental GPU upgrades are cheap versus the now "outdated" and expensive 5870 mac version. In fact the whole mac platform suffers from poor 3D support at software level too but that's another rant.
don't buy cheap parts and you won't have an issue. a good gaming computer with quality components is still a lot cheaper, provided you stick with what suits your software requirements and not blindly springing for the coolest hardware.
I wouldn't buy it strictly for gaming. Your gonna end up wanting/needing windows anyway. SO your better off with the better off as you'll want better video cards then what you'll be able to put into the Mac Pro. That said I have a new Mac Pro and use it for video editing but also for gaming. So in my case it's nice cause one machine does both VERY well. And FYI I have to bootcamp to windows for most gaming anyway. If all you want to do is game build a windows gaming rig.
It depends on your budget. If you had $3000 (what you would have payed for the Mac Pro) but you decide to just buy an Xbox, then get a 15" i5 MBP. If you decide to build your own PC for $1200-1500, then buy a 13 MBP.
Don't do it, like everybody else here has said.
An M11X is a better performer for its price.
e: build your own and don't skimp on the case if gaming is your only concern. The MacPro is a computer I do a lot of stuff on, it also neatly falls into gaming just because of the hardware.
I didn't get it because I wanted to play games on it.
An M11X is a better performer for its price.
e: build your own and don't skimp on the case if gaming is your only concern. The MacPro is a computer I do a lot of stuff on, it also neatly falls into gaming just because of the hardware.
I didn't get it because I wanted to play games on it.
Get a Mac Pro.
Holds value better and does everything other than games better than a windows PC.
And it runs games pretty good. Either in emulation (the Porting Team), native or by purchasing a $100 windows license for Boot Camp.
The MP I just put together is quite fast. It can play all my games (50-60 fps) at 1080p with no trouble with high/very setting in windows.
If you do the math (factoring OS, bundled apps, 1000 watt PSU, alum case) you won't be that far ahead rolling your own (unless quality parts don't have value to you.
Holds value better and does everything other than games better than a windows PC.
And it runs games pretty good. Either in emulation (the Porting Team), native or by purchasing a $100 windows license for Boot Camp.
The MP I just put together is quite fast. It can play all my games (50-60 fps) at 1080p with no trouble with high/very setting in windows.
If you do the math (factoring OS, bundled apps, 1000 watt PSU, alum case) you won't be that far ahead rolling your own (unless quality parts don't have value to you.
A Mac Pro is a nice machine. If that's what he wants, I couldn't fault him (not the best bang for the buck for gaming, but there other good aspects, obviously). But there's something wrong if you can't come out way ahead in price building a gaming machine - including quality parts and OS. Actually, you might be able to go even cheaper with one of the build to order sites.
Compared to the $1800 i7 based MP @ Adoramma (or where ever it was/is) or the Refurb at Apple. The MP uses server grade CPU, Mobo and RAM but I will just use normal grade stuff for the PC:
CPU: $320
Mobo: $250
4 GB RAM: $60
Case: $150
1000 watt psu: $150
DVDR: $20
OS: $100
iLife (Adobe Elements): $100 - may be worthless to some, but it is included with the Mac
RADEON 5770: $120
HDD: $50
$1520 - you could certainly build one for less, but these would be good parts. Your home brew drops value right away whereas there are always people willing to pay a fair price for a Mac.
In my city craig's and kijiji are full of people with gaming PCs trying to trade for Macs.
So, I would advise getting a Mac that can game. Eventually you will care more about the 'Mac part' than the 'game part.'
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Actually, it is bad idea to buy MP for gaming because its current GPU are less powerful than Win desktop GPUs. But if you need powerful Mac for editing photos, videos, etc and a gaming machine at the same time; I believe you may buy MacPro and save space at your desk.
Since you were willing to buy a mac pro anyway..
ACD+Epic gaming PC hackintosh+apple wirelesskeyboard+magic mouse
Hide the desktop and pretend its a mac mini on steroids
ACD+Epic gaming PC hackintosh+apple wirelesskeyboard+magic mouse
Hide the desktop and pretend its a mac mini on steroids
To me, it depends on how you are framing it.
Can you play games on your Mac Pro? Absolutely. Is it maybe a reason to spend a little bit more on a processor upgrade, some more RAM and the better video card? Pretty much.
I'm buying mine for work. That it plays games...is just nice.
Should you buy it with *gaming* as your sole intended use, or even primary use? Probably not.
Can you play games on your Mac Pro? Absolutely. Is it maybe a reason to spend a little bit more on a processor upgrade, some more RAM and the better video card? Pretty much.
I'm buying mine for work. That it plays games...is just nice.
Should you buy it with *gaming* as your sole intended use, or even primary use? Probably not.
indeed it is, but wait until 2011 games released and you may change your mind (no higher resolution with every single setting set ultra high)!!
Moreover, you may install any new GPu from nvidia or ATI, but you won't be able to use it for Mac, in addition, I am not sure whether MP support crossfire and SLI , so you may not get benefit by using multiple card.
You certainly have a point about getting a refurbished Mac Pro for cheaper than the new price. I'm not saying getting a mac pro would be a bad idea.
I was comparing new against new. You can get refurb gaming pcs also.
Your system doesn't total $1520, BTW (I get $1320 with elements).
A gaming system from cyberpowerpc (you should be able to build it for a comparable price):
Mid Tower case
i7 2600K @ 3.40 GHz
ThermalTake fan and heatsink
Gigabyte GA-H67M-D2 motherboard
8 GB ram
Radeon 5870
1000 Watt BFG EX-1000 PSU (although, this is overkill)
1 TB HD
24X DVD burner
Mouse and keyboard
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
(they also include a 3year warranty)
Total: $1241 - it wouldn't be hard to still have a powerful gaming pc and still be a couple hundred dollars cheaper.
I didn't include adobe elements since we were discussing gaming pcs.
But as we both said, there are advantages to running a mac. I'm not arguing that. I was talking strictly about gaming. If the mac side is important he may want to consider a pro or a mac gaming pc combination.
..and in 2011 there will be new Mac GPUs.
Not sure where you are going with this.
I can run Starcraft 2 maxed out at highest resolution right now with my 5870.
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If you really want to spend mac pro type money and have the best gaming rig, you could always build a rig around an sr2-classified server board, pack it with dual xeon 5500/5600 series (the 2.66 hexes would be sweet) overclock them to 5ghz (liquid cooler, 4ish on air) and go to town. While your at it, make that sucker a hackintosh as well and enjoy a mp faster than anything apple will be offering for (likely) the next few years...
of course even with all that power it still won't be a real mac....
of course even with all that power it still won't be a real mac....
I've always seen the Mac Pro as being a machine not targeted towards the general consumer and definitely not towards gamers. I'll attempt to explain a few points based on what I currently hold to be my knowledge on Mac Pros.
1) Price point- Industry standard software comes with hefty licensing fees, in this realm I class programs such as Photoshop CS4, Logic Studio Pro etc. These are the programs commonly used on the Mac Pro running OS X. The hardware side is no exception, Industry hardware designed for Industry hardware at Industry prices.
2)The Hardware specifically- When you look at the video cards that usually call the Mac Pro home, you can see cards like the GT 120, Nvidia Quadro4000 etc. These are not the cards found in consumer systems, they are specifically aimed towards tasks which need precise rendering and not speed rendering which is what games demand, thus the bad performance in PC games.
Secondly there is the CPU, all Mac Pro models come with Intel Xeon CPUs, these aren't found in the PCs and gaming rigs that you would buy from a computer store, because they are not aimed towards the general consumer. They are high end CPUs aimed towards servers and industry level work.
Thirdly the case design. Compare professional chassis intended for the same market demographic as the Mac Pro and a quick pattern can be seen. They all have similar case lay outs designed for cooling and easy service, slot out hardrive bays etc. Although this design can also be found in high end gaming cases the point is that the evidence shows the Mac Pro conforms with the criteria for meeting Industry and not the home consumer.
Sure macs also pack a fair amount of RAM if it is configured to, but from past experience of Mac Pro hardware specifications, the RAM tends to be geared towards reliability (ECC RAM) rather than blazing fast speeds that are required for games. Not to say the RAM is not powerful but it is hardly suited for gaming which is the point of contrast.
Operating System- Taking into account the OS and hardware integration, optimised firmware and drivers, rising from the closed ecosystem Apple likes to maintain as a vital piece of what makes the product and the performance. And then contrasting this against the intended use of gaming. Apart from the graphical issues raised above, there is the issue of comparative poor game support for mac (I personally view cider ports as illegitimate, just my opinion though) which means you'd need to boot camp a version of Windows. This negates one of the vital points of the product, the integrated software.
To wrap up, the Mac Pro is a powerful machine aimed at a different market and NOT at the consumer market which gaming rigs tend to inhabit the higher end of. Ultimately the hardware isn't suited graphically towards games and nor is the pricing. Considering windows as an imperative in the case of gaming, all important factors covered, hardware,software and pricing point to the best option being either to build or purchase a gaming rig that will work out cheaper and much better suited to gaming.
Feel free to add anything I may have left out and importantly any corrections to the claims made above.
1) Price point- Industry standard software comes with hefty licensing fees, in this realm I class programs such as Photoshop CS4, Logic Studio Pro etc. These are the programs commonly used on the Mac Pro running OS X. The hardware side is no exception, Industry hardware designed for Industry hardware at Industry prices.
2)The Hardware specifically- When you look at the video cards that usually call the Mac Pro home, you can see cards like the GT 120, Nvidia Quadro4000 etc. These are not the cards found in consumer systems, they are specifically aimed towards tasks which need precise rendering and not speed rendering which is what games demand, thus the bad performance in PC games.
Secondly there is the CPU, all Mac Pro models come with Intel Xeon CPUs, these aren't found in the PCs and gaming rigs that you would buy from a computer store, because they are not aimed towards the general consumer. They are high end CPUs aimed towards servers and industry level work.
Thirdly the case design. Compare professional chassis intended for the same market demographic as the Mac Pro and a quick pattern can be seen. They all have similar case lay outs designed for cooling and easy service, slot out hardrive bays etc. Although this design can also be found in high end gaming cases the point is that the evidence shows the Mac Pro conforms with the criteria for meeting Industry and not the home consumer.
Sure macs also pack a fair amount of RAM if it is configured to, but from past experience of Mac Pro hardware specifications, the RAM tends to be geared towards reliability (ECC RAM) rather than blazing fast speeds that are required for games. Not to say the RAM is not powerful but it is hardly suited for gaming which is the point of contrast.
Operating System- Taking into account the OS and hardware integration, optimised firmware and drivers, rising from the closed ecosystem Apple likes to maintain as a vital piece of what makes the product and the performance. And then contrasting this against the intended use of gaming. Apart from the graphical issues raised above, there is the issue of comparative poor game support for mac (I personally view cider ports as illegitimate, just my opinion though) which means you'd need to boot camp a version of Windows. This negates one of the vital points of the product, the integrated software.
To wrap up, the Mac Pro is a powerful machine aimed at a different market and NOT at the consumer market which gaming rigs tend to inhabit the higher end of. Ultimately the hardware isn't suited graphically towards games and nor is the pricing. Considering windows as an imperative in the case of gaming, all important factors covered, hardware,software and pricing point to the best option being either to build or purchase a gaming rig that will work out cheaper and much better suited to gaming.
Feel free to add anything I may have left out and importantly any corrections to the claims made above.
^^^^ Very good points.
Lot's of people buy race ready cars and never drive them fast. Some buy cheap cars and wear them out on the track.
If you can afford a Mac Pro and like to have one than get it. Use it as a tree planter if you want (it will do that very well too).
The only game you will not be able to run maxed out on a MP and 27" ACD is probably Crysis (which will need two GTX 580 in your gaming PC to run smooth at 25*15). So you are losing nothing and gaining a much better engineered product.
Lot's of people buy race ready cars and never drive them fast. Some buy cheap cars and wear them out on the track.
If you can afford a Mac Pro and like to have one than get it. Use it as a tree planter if you want (it will do that very well too).
The only game you will not be able to run maxed out on a MP and 27" ACD is probably Crysis (which will need two GTX 580 in your gaming PC to run smooth at 25*15). So you are losing nothing and gaining a much better engineered product.
The Quadro cards are only for people with a gazillion dollar$ to shell out on them. Standard configurations of the Mac Pro have included cards ranging from good (current ATI cards) to horrible (7300GT, ugh)
I really don't see a disadvantage to using a Xeon as a "consumer" (other than not having any reason to have it at all)
In games, quantity > speed. Most games are still 32bit anyway, so won't be able to use more than 3gb of RAM even if they wanted to.
Yep anyone who wants to play games other than HL2 will install Wind0ze anyway so that's kind of a moot point.
Just because it's aimed at "pro" applications doesn't mean that a Mac Pro isn't good for games if you've got money to burn $$$