Is MacPro overkill for digital photography?

[Phrasikleia]

i understand where you are coming from, but these days you are rarely the only one with a dslr on any scene. the big agencies often send more than one pj, and on my last wedding "oncle bob" showed up with a 1dIII. having the perfect moment in focus AND nailing the exposure is what will get you your next commission. at least i am not able to verify the first one without a large display and the second on without aperture/cs etc.

spray and pray get's you nowhere, but skimping on exposures when your competition doesn't is a different story.

Exactly. You don't have to be doing "spray and pray" to rack up a ton of images. In those three weeks that we got those 9,200 shots, we were putting in 8-hour days of photographing, working very hard on the framing and exposure of each shot. My friends think I'm nuts to have spent several weeks in Greece and only about 2 hours total at the beach.

 

[localghost]

Exactly. You don't have to be doing "spray and pray" to rack up a ton of images. In those three weeks that we got those 9,200 shots, we were putting in 8-hour days of photographing, working very hard on the framing and exposure of each shot. My friends think I'm nuts to have spent several weeks in Greece and only about 2 hours total at the beach.

2 hours at the _same_ beach?!? tricky sunset? (J/K)

 

[Digital Skunk]

spray and pray get's you nowhere, but skimping on exposures when your competition doesn't is a different story.

Agreed. There is a fine line between the two. Shooting at 10 fps is nice for bursts of 7-10 for that one crucial moment, but bursts of 30 or more while the main shot isn't a winner isn't a good practice.

 

[qveda]

You guys have been very helpful. Thanks for the pointers to URLs , etc regarding drive configurations for optimum photoshop performance.

Question 1: If I want to use a faster configuration for start up disc than the 320gb 7200rpm that comes std in the MacPro, how would I go about changing it? Will the Apple store build the computer with a drive that I supply? or a Raid0 on two drives? Or would I have to rebuild the system myself from MacOS install discs onto my own drives?

Question 2: I understand that Raid0 is faster, but also introduces a second point of failure. Does this imply that Raid0 of two fast drives is not a good choice for the startup disk ?

 

[localghost]

You guys have been very helpful. Thanks for the pointers to URLs , etc regarding drive configurations for optimum photoshop performance.

Question 1: If I want to use a faster configuration for start up disc than the 320gb 7200rpm that comes std in the MacPro, how would I go about changing it? Will the Apple store build the computer with a drive that I supply? or a Raid0 on two drives? Or would I have to rebuild the system myself from MacOS install discs onto my own drives?

Question 2: I understand that Raid0 is faster, but also introduces a second point of failure. Does this imply that Raid0 of two fast drives is not a good choice for the startup disk ?

it's easy to put more drives in a mac pro, you can diy. either buy another similar drive for 2x320 raid0, or just use the factory drive for something else. failure is 2x likely to happen with raid0, so a regular backup is vital - but you should do that anyways, even without using raid0.

you can always boot your mac from an external drive if you press the option key during startup.

 

[giffut]

I ...

.... would recommend a MacPro OctoCore 2,8Ghz and fill it with 8GB RAM. That´s cheap for now and brings enough power for the future. Anything more is of no use at the moment, at least regarding photoshopping. The more ghz are really just for rendering video projects - and if you are a Pro and every second counts. Get third party RAM and HDs, like proposed before. Don´t buy topnotch, but reasonable powerfull for what you need.

Snow Leopard will bring severe enhancements in memory managment and CPU/GPU usage, though, but that´s still the future. And it would need software improvements on Adobes side which are still far far away to use all memory and cores of the host machine. CS 4 will not deliver those - and Final Cut/Logic Studio users beg´n´pray for this, too.

Then I definitely would create a RAID 0 from two 10k or 15k Raptors and put the Photoshop Scratch Disk onto it, together with the OSX virtual memory folder. This alone will speed things up quite tremendously, when importing into Aperture or dealing with huge multilayer Photoshop files. Put it into Thermaltake internal HD cooling cases and off you go without bleeding ears.

I have the minor version of this: Two 160GB SATA 7.2k drives in RAID 0 configuration, with the VM folder and the scratch disk on it. It also houses any Video projects I am working on (amaturish). So any of my photoshopping efforts are uninterrupted by the system drive grinding to a halt because of virtual memory or scratch disk I/O. Overally my system (SelfMac Core2Duo 2,8Ghz, 4GB RAM, several HDs, one RAID 0) now performs almost without any beachballs. Always eparate the system/applications from the data.

 

[localghost]

.
(...) and put the Photoshop Scratch Disk onto it, together with the OSX virtual memory folder.
(...)

this is a very smart system hack, but it's still just that. qveda, be sure you understand what you (or that little app) are (is) doing before you start.

 

[giffut]

The ...

... speed of the startup is neglible, important is the performance of the data disks, that hold your projects, virtual memory and scratch disks. Having a 7200rpm SATA startup disk is more than enough. You don´t need a fast booting, but fast running system.

To localghost: Of course it´s a hack - well, I call it enhancement. It just changes the standard path, which is the system disk. There is no magic, there is no terror to the system.

Sometimes it´s just that the feet form the path ;-)

 

[localghost]

(...) - well, I call it enhancement. (...)

isn't that what the borg say, too?

no offense, i don't even know if it causes any problems - i don't know enough unix to judge it, and i don't want to find out the hard way at the wrong time, that's all.

 

[qveda]

.... would recommend a MacPro OctoCore 2,8Ghz and fill it with 8GB RAM. ....
Then I definitely would create a RAID 0 from two 10k or 15k Raptors and put the Photoshop Scratch Disk onto it, together with the OSX virtual memory folder. This alone will speed things up quite tremendously, when importing into Aperture or dealing with huge multilayer Photoshop files. Put it into Thermaltake internal HD cooling cases and off you go without bleeding ears.

Hi giffut, to clarify, you are recommending that for my new Mac Pro, I would add 6gb ram (for total of 8gb), and use the minimum default drive that comes with a new MacPro (320gb, or larger 7.2k SATA) with the OS installed on it for the OS , applications, and data, image, video , audio files. Then add a 10K raid0 pair for scratch and virtual memory. Correct?
Wouldn't a single 10k drive be all I'd need for scratch to make it faster than the 7.2K drive?

 

[giffut]

Yes ...

... for the MacPro. The drive scheme I recommend would be like this (I now dream my own system, if that´s ok):

- 320GB (stock configuration) Systemdisk for OSX and applications. A Western Digital Raptor/VelociRaptor with 10k rpm is good here, too.

- 1TB for general data/project files (two additional ones are possible via hidden internal SATA ports and mountable in the second optical drive bay)

- RAID 0 with Raptor/VelociRaptor drives (or cheaper with standard 7.2k rpm SATA drives of small sizes) for virtual memory/scratch and temporary data (only properly backed up one, of course). Chaining two drives in RAID 0 gives you roughly double the performance compared to one drive only. For scratch and virtual memory the more throughput you get, the better.

The data/project drive would be backed up, of course, to an external drive, too. You could buy Sonnets E2P or E4P PCI-Express eSata cards with port multiplier function. This gives you support for up to 10 (E2P) or 20 (E4P) drives, in supported enclosures. But you already mentionned that you got rid of an external enclosure. I propagate it anyways.

A recommended cheap but reliable drive casing would be Mapowers 2xSATA TB32 case with USB/eSata connections. You would use them with the two drives independantly (JBOD) mounted - so you could pack two 1TB drives in their, to backup your data/project HD and for other data stuff. If those drives are only mounted for backup purposes and otherwise off, you could get rid of the internal fan and make it really silent (it´s just screws and one connector, easily reattachable in case of warranty issues).

You can stuff additional drives into your MacPro, though. There are two additional SATA ports hidden on the logicboard. Use a PCI-Express SATA RAID card for more internal drives. I would choose any of the Highpoint Rocketraid 23xx/35xx series.

Here are all the links with information on the stuff I mentionned:

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http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fusiond500p.html
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_sata_e4p.html

Sonnets 5-Bay storage tank. This would give you the maximum possible 5 drives per port multiplier. So with a E4P card and four of those you can go 20TB.

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http://www.highpoint-tech.com/

Check the 35xx or 23xx series. This manufacturer is a top hardware RAID recommondation, in case you want to have it.

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http://mapower.com/Product.asp?CateID=146&LineID=10

The Mapower case I mentionned. It says "USB only" for Macs, but that is definitely not true. In conjunction with the Sonnet E4P card which I am happily using with two of those cases.

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http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/Mac_Pro_Ext_SATA_Case_Kit.html

The two internal SATA ports within the MacPro

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http://www.westerndigital.com/de/products/products.asp?driveid=496

Two of the new VelociRaptor or two classic Raptors (cheaper, but louder and more power hungry).

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For the data drives I´d choose Samsung drives: They are silent and fast.

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The hack aka "enhancement" by your own feet:

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=81586

Search for the posts by the user "E_James" (February 19th 2008). After installing properly, test it hard on project files before going productive.

 

[qveda]

... for the MacPro. The drive scheme I recommend would be like this (I now dream my own system, if that´s ok):
- 320GB (stock configuration) Systemdisk for OSX and applications. A Western Digital Raptor/VelociRaptor with 10k rpm is good here, too.

Hi, great info, but beyond my need and budget. Mostly likely I would use stock configuration for the startup (OS and applications). And get a faster drive (150gb 10k) for scratch and VM, and add 3rd larger 7.2k drive later for files. Then backup everything to a large (internal or external drive). This seems simple and probably meets all my needs.

But, if I wanted to upgrade to 10k for startup, and Raid0 for scratch, what would I need to do to migrate the OS and applications from the stock drive to the new faster drive??

 

[localghost]

Hi, great info, but beyond my need and budget. Mostly likely I would use stock configuration for the startup (OS and applications). And get a faster drive (150gb 10k) for scratch and VM, and add 3rd larger 7.2k drive later for files. Then backup everything to a large (internal or external drive). This seems simple and probably meets all my needs.

But, if I wanted to upgrade to 10k for startup, and Raid0 for scratch, what would I need to do to migrate the OS and applications from the stock drive to the new faster drive??

i prefer ccc

 

[giffut]

Oh, ...

... just start with whatever you find suitable at the moment. That´s the huge advantage using the MacPro: Expand it when needed - so your pockets won´t bleed.

 

[qveda]

i prefer ccc

Ah! so when you want to migrate your Startup disc to a faster drive (and also migrate your scratch disk to and even faster drive), you would install the new drive in a bay, format it, and use CCC to copy your complete Startup drive image to the new drive. Then power down, remove the orig Startup drive, replace it with the cloned faster drive, and then Power back on - is that all there is to do ?

 

[localghost]

Ah! so when you want to migrate your Startup disc to a faster drive (and also migrate your scratch disk to and even faster drive), you would install the new drive in a bay, format it, and use CCC to copy your complete Startup drive image to the new drive. Then power down, remove the orig Startup drive, replace it with the cloned faster drive, and then Power back on - is that all there is to do ?

basically, yes. i simply use file-level copies because it allows you to clone the same drive from which you have booted, works like a charm, very reliable.

for block-level copies you have to boot from a different drive than the one that is being cloned. you can find more info about this in the ccc documentation.

you don't even have to remove the old drive if you plan to keep using it for other things. just plug the new one, clone, change startup drive in preferences, reboot, be done.

 

[qveda]

great! this is the info I've been looking for must not have been explaining myself very well in previous posts.

thx !