Is Microsoft dying a slow death?

[Black Magic]

Don't underestimate Microsoft. They're now where Apple was a decade ago and look what happened. Their products today are completely banal, but there's always another Next Big Thing around the corner. Apple and then Google jumped at the last Next Big Thing (computer-wise) while Microsoft, RIM and Nokia stumbled, but the last two are more likely to go completely under than the former, since that's all they do.

I'm not going to apologise for the schadenfreude of seeing Microsoft flounder, after more than a decade of jabs from Windows-loving co-workers who honestly believed that Microsoft bought Apple in the late 90s, many of whom now have iPhones, iPads and even Macs and come to ask me for advice and help (while I've still never bought a single Windows PC). But dismissing them would be a mistake. The same mistake everyone made a decade and a half ago.

Whether Windows 8 or Windows Phone 8 is any good (I hear it's an unintuitive skin for what is otherwise little more than a Windows 7 Service Pack) is not really the point. They're willing to take big risks, and sometimes when you fire big shots into the dark, even if you don't hit something fully, you sometimes wing it.

It'll be interesting to see. Microsoft doesn't innovate so they probably won't be the ones to come up with the next big thing. Usually they copy so they will come to the market late with an inferior product.

I believe in 20 years Microsoft will not be as relevant as they are today. They truly need a change at the top.

 

[roadbloc]

Microsoft doesn't innovate

How do you know this? They certainly shook up the console market in a short space of time with the Xbox and Xbox 360 with a lot of new innovative features for gaming. I'd say they innovated then.

You say it as though it is a fact. But the truth is, Microsoft put quite a lot of their money in R&D. Whether it'll pay of in the tablet market has yet to be seen, but the Surface with Windows 8 looks a sleek product.

 

[Black Magic]

How do you know this? They certainly shook up the console market in a short space of time with the Xbox and Xbox 360 with a lot of new innovative features for gaming. I'd say they innovated then.

You say it as though it is a fact. But the truth is, Microsoft put quite a lot of their money in R&D. Whether it'll pay of in the tablet market has yet to be seen, but the Surface with Windows 8 looks a sleek product.

The only innovation out of Microsoft recently has been XBOX Kinect. Everything else has been a copy. Did you Metro is actually a technology that was patented a while back by SurfCast?

Microsoft copies soooooooo much it's sickening. Did you know that on the Surface, one of the features that's boldly advertised by the Sales reps is the magnetic power connector? Guess what? That was copied from Apple MacBooks.

Did you know that the Microsoft stores are almost a direct copy of the Apple store down to the employees wearing blue shirts and lanyards?

http://www.marco.org/2012/10/26/an-alternate-universe

 

[roadbloc]

The only innovation out of Microsoft recently has been XBOX Kinect. Everything else has been a copy. Did you Metro is actually a technology that was patented a while back by SurfCast?

Microsoft copies soooooooo much it's sickening. Did you know that on the Surface, one of the features that's boldly advertised by the Sales reps is the magnetic power connector? Guess what? That was copied from Apple MacNooks.

Did you know that the Microsoft stores are almost a direct copy of the Apple store down to the employees wearing blue shirts and lanyards?

http://www.marco.org/2012/10/26/an-alternate-universe

Because Apple never buys companies with patents or technology they need that was never by them. Ever.

Companies buy other companies. This includes Apple. Take a look at all the features of iOS 5 & 6 and then take a look at which companies actually invented that technology. Siri would be the best example to use in this case, but Apple have bought a lot more before and since.

Innovation is progressive and requires a combination of 'other peoples' ideas before it can be achieved.

 

[Black Magic]

Because Apple never buys companies with patents or technology they need that was never by them. Ever.

Companies buy other companies. This includes Apple. Take a look at all the features of iOS 5 & 6 and then take a look at which companies actually invented that technology. Siri would be the best example to use in this case, but Apple have bought a lot more before and since.

Innovation is progressive and requires a combination of 'other peoples' ideas before it can be achieved.

You do realize that Microsoft did not buy Surfcast and is currently being sued for patent infringement? Buying is one thing. Stealing and flat out copying is another.

I noticed you completely over looked the Microsoft store comment. I guess that is deemed innovation in your mind.

 

[stockscalper]

It'd be great if thousands of people lost their jobs and several markets lost competition?

It should be clear by now that Microsoft doesn't innovate, they never have, they copy. And second, all those jobs that you're worried about losing would be in India and China.

 

[Michael Goff]

It should be clear by now that Microsoft doesn't innovate, they never have, they copy. And second, all those jobs that you're worried about losing would be in India and China.

They don't innovate?

Really?

And let me guess... Apple does, Google does, and so forth?

Edit: Also forgot to mention the jobs in the US that would be lost. An estimated 57,000 people are empoyed by Microsoft in the US.

 

[smoledman]

Microsoft on a roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uOEpXX8Cmv8

 

[robanga]

I hope they are on the cusp of their pivot into the future and their next round of success. They certainly have their work cut out for them.

IBM did it though and so can they.

Devices and hosted services. Is that the right strategy? Only time will tell. They are coming from behind on all of them to Google and Apple.

Xbox was successful but only through brute force and they did not make a dime on that business until very recently and soon its going to be time to rev the console again. All those red rings were very costly.

Perhaps the one OS across all devices will be a key to their pivot.

 

[smoledman]

Microsoft on a roll in both consumer & enterprise.

Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows Phone 8, Surface RT, XBox 360/XBox Live/Kinect, SkyDrive, XBox Music, Office 2013, Surface Pro(coming soon)

Windows Server 2012, CRM Dynamics, Azure, Office 365

and the next XBox & Kinect coming next year along with the rumored Surface Phone.

Guys this is an unbelievable time to be a MS fan.

 

[liavman]

One thing to keep in mind of any media stories is that they have a stock market bias, whether it is Microsft or Apple. That is, things are looked at using the colored glasses of stock market price. What gets missed is, during the time when the stock price was way high, the revenues and profits were much lower than what they are now. So, was Microsoft in a better position then or now. From raw numbers, they are obviously in a stronger position now compared to, say, 2000.

Having said that, Microsoft is not as much a growth company as it was back in 2000. That is what is reflected in the stock price. That is no way to evaluate the technical merits or the financial strength of a company. This is a mistake I see that the media commits on a daily basis whether it is Apple or Microsoft.

 

[Renzatic]

You do realize that Microsoft did not buy Surfcast and is currently being sued for patent infringement? Buying is one thing. Stealing and flat out copying is another.

Did you know that Creative sued Apple over the UI on the original iPod, which Apple eventually settled for $625 million?

Apple infringed. Does that mean they copied Creative? No. Only people completely ignorant of patents and how they work assume infringement automatically means copying.

And much like Creative's lawsuit against Apple, Surfcast's suit is just as vague, nondescript, and completely BS. In this case, it's a patent not over the tile layout, rather their ability to display "simultaneous display of multiple information sources". Yeah.

Think before you post. Please.

edit: Here we go. It's a patent troll scheme. Surfcast never released any products on the market that leveraged the patent, so it's not like MS had any reference to base their "copied" UI from.

 

[roadbloc]

I noticed you completely over looked the Microsoft store comment. I guess that is deemed innovation in your mind.

I noticed you completely over looked the entire point of my post. I guess that is deemed innovation in your mind.

Oh look. I copied off your post. But changed it slightly to suit my point. This is innovation. This is my point. Ideas are based off other peoples ideas that have influenced you. An example of non-innovation would have been if I had have just copied and pasted your post in reply.

Get it now?

 

[Renzatic]

I noticed you completely over looked the entire point of my post. I guess that is deemed innovation in your mind.

Oh look. I copied off your post. But changed it slightly to suit my point. This is innovation. This is my point. Ideas are based off other peoples ideas that have influenced you. An example of non-innovation would have been if I had have just copied and pasted your post in reply.

Get it now?

A quote so magical, only I could say it so eloquently. Renzatic quoting. I've changed everything...again.

 

[roxxette]

Ummmm , no. Totally misinformed. You are exhibiting something called preferential bias. You like something, so your mind is forcing you to think its far more popular than it really is.

RIM market share has been hovering around 3% in Latin America for a long time. Android dominates the market and iOS has actually lost considerable market share.

And in EU, iOS holds slightly more market share than Android, although RIM still holds about 14% market share making them a far distant third place as they lose out to both iOS and Android.

Source: http://www.areppim.com/analysis/stats/stats_mobiosxtime_sam.htm

Complete ********, and im a iphone user since 2008 so dont know where these bias comment comes lol

RIM is the best seller in latin america, its probably the top phones in carriers.

Im in Dominican Republic btw

 

[mac.ross]

The anti-Windows bias in this thread is sickening.

Slating Microsoft for innovating and improving on products and it's called 'copying' but when Apple does it?

OH LORD SO MUCH INNOVATION!

Companies take ideas from each other and improve and adapt them to their needs, they always have and they always will.

It's not stealing, it's just how it works.

If some people had their way we'd all be driving slow, wind-up cars with no roof.

 

[chown33]

edit: Here we go. It's a patent troll scheme. Surfcast never released any products on the market that leveraged the patent, so it's not like MS had any reference to base their "copied" UI from. [Underline added]

Please read the entire Ars article:

But Microsoft has at least one of its own patents on the technology, applied for in 2006 and granted in 2011, covering a "Tile space user interface for mobile devices."

The Microsoft patent makes references to dozens of previous patents, including the one referenced in SurfCast's lawsuit and two others owned by Santoro.​

This point doesn't necessarily prove or even argue anything else about the case. It just points out the fallacy of the quoted sentence.

Because if Microsoft's granted patent actually references the one referenced in SurfCast's lawsuit, then they plainly do have a "reference to base their 'copied' UI from".

 

[A Hebrew]

Microsoft is not going to die.

 

[Renzatic]

Because if Microsoft's granted patent actually references the one referenced in SurfCast's lawsuit, then they plainly do have a "reference to base their 'copied' UI from".

Whoops. I stand corrected.

It still doesn't lend credence to Black Magic's assumption that they "stole" the idea from Surfcast. The fact he'd even suggest something so stupid absolutely blows my mind.

All companies infringe. Apple infringes. Microsoft infringes. Google infringes. I'm fairly sure at least half of the programmers who frequent this site have infringed upon a patent at some point. Infringement doesn't mean that whatever company being sued decided to hit up the patent office catalogs looking for ideas to steal.

 

[boss.king]

Yup, they're dying so slowly that they are in fact still growing.

MSFT is still number one in several areas, and have just launched a whole ecosystem of stellar products. If that's death, then what exactly is Apple doing?

 

[Black Magic]

Please read the entire Ars article:

But Microsoft has at least one of its own patents on the technology, applied for in 2006 and granted in 2011, covering a "Tile space user interface for mobile devices."

The Microsoft patent makes references to dozens of previous patents, including the one referenced in SurfCast's lawsuit and two others owned by Santoro.​

This point doesn't necessarily prove or even argue anything else about the case. It just points out the fallacy of the quoted sentence.

Because if Microsoft's granted patent actually references the one referenced in SurfCast's lawsuit, then they plainly do have a "reference to base their 'copied' UI from".

A quote so magical, only I could say it so eloquently. Black Magic quoting. I've changed everything...again.

----------

Whoops. I stand corrected.

It still doesn't lend credence to Black Magic's assumption that they "stole" the idea from Surfcast. The fact he'd even suggest something so stupid absolutely blows my mind.

All companies infringe. Apple infringes. Microsoft infringes. Google infringes. I'm fairly sure at least half of the programmers who frequent this site have infringed upon a patent at some point. Infringement doesn't mean that whatever company being sued decided to hit up the patent office catalogs looking for ideas to steal.

Think and research before you post. Please.

 

[Renzatic]

Think and research before you post. Please.

My mistake was an honest one. Your opinion is just uninformed and dummmmmmbbbb.

 

[chrono1081]

That article does a great job of explaining exactly why they went from top dog media darling to the state they're in now. MS has some of the smartest people in the industry working for them, but they were mismanaged to hell and back. They didn't allow their best people to do the best job they could because of internal politics, backstabbing, and...oh god...progress evaluations.

Tragic stuff really. Ballmer isn't what I'd call a stupid guy, but after reading those 6 pages, I can see why he isn't a good CEO.

This!

I have friends who work (and worked) at Microsoft and the general feeling was that people were happy when gates was there, people became very unhappy when Ballmer was there.

As Renzatac stated Microsoft has a lot of smart people all in the wrong places. I think Microsoft forgot what they were good at which is business solutions.

 

[G51989]

The only innovation out of Microsoft recently has been XBOX Kinect. Everything else has been a copy. Did you Metro is actually a technology that was patented a while back by SurfCast?

Microsoft copies soooooooo much it's sickening. Did you know that on the Surface, one of the features that's boldly advertised by the Sales reps is the magnetic power connector? Guess what? That was copied from Apple MacBooks.

Did you know that Apple didn't invent Siri? At all? They just bought it. They also ripped their OS from Xerox back in the day, then microsoft did it to, thats why it was thrown out of court. Dock Menu in OSX...wonder where they got that idea? Surely not the Windows Active Launcher....

And Apple copies a lot to ( their iOS layout barrows ALOT from BB and Palm ).

Companies copy each other all the time.

And the Magsafe connector? Sorry to tell you, but magnetic power connectors have existed long before the Macbook, and before Apple.

 

[smoledman]

But Apple has the best SoC designers. Why does the A6X blow away all others in graphics performance?