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Is smcFanControl safe to use?
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Yeah, the dissection was difficult... kinda hard to cut trough all that dark sarcasm you know...
I love how you keep ignoring the fact that too much heat can limit the lifespan of computer components. Since I use smcFanControl, I never had a kernel panic anymore on my alu iMac when playing that game ... that's no evidence, but it certainly is a strong indication that the kernel panic was linked to overheating. And the logic board failure symptoms resemble to what thousands of other iMac G5 users have experienced... which is also a strong indication.
Sure, heat is not something that will help your computer...
But you're making it seem like it will significantly increase the life of your PC if you use SMCFanControl. It won't. It is like adding a few days of life to a 90 year old person. Sooooooo insignificant.
Heat however could be a big problem if your components were actually overheating. However they are not. Apple has designed their computers to run at perfectly normal temps. If they were actually having problems with computers overheating they could easily release a firmware update that would increase the speed of the fans.
If you can offer me one shred of evidence that kernel panics are related to heat I will listen...
All you're saying is that it just so happen they stopped for you.
i find it amusing to trust no name software people to magically create a app that has ZERO side effects and only gain.
I will trust apple who DESIGNS the computers and probably know a heck of alot more about this than any of us and the people behind this app
there is no such thing as getting something for nothing
I will trust apple who DESIGNS the computers and probably know a heck of alot more about this than any of us and the people behind this app
there is no such thing as getting something for nothing
rezenclowd3
macrumors 65816
Actually, one can edit the files within the OS X Coreservices Library and edit the fan speeds, but SMC makes it VERY easy to use. All SMC does is raise the lowest idle fan speed, not the values at which they ramp up to depending on component temp and load. It is completely safe to use, and the only side effects may be lower fan bearing life due to the higher fan RPM and load. The fans are brushless, so there will be no commutator or brush wear, and no springs to get weaker.
I bought my 2.4GHz MBP, and the CPU was usually hovering around 140ºF at a idle speed of 2000 RPM per fan. I have doubled that with SMC and normal CPU temp is usually around 100ºF, and the MBP skin is barely warm, however it still gets decently warm when running CPU intensive apps, enough so that I up the fan speed to 5K when running those apps. I am not worried about bearing failure as I can most likely change out the bearings easily, or right now find fans for $40 a pop for replacement.
I bought my 2.4GHz MBP, and the CPU was usually hovering around 140ºF at a idle speed of 2000 RPM per fan. I have doubled that with SMC and normal CPU temp is usually around 100ºF, and the MBP skin is barely warm, however it still gets decently warm when running CPU intensive apps, enough so that I up the fan speed to 5K when running those apps. I am not worried about bearing failure as I can most likely change out the bearings easily, or right now find fans for $40 a pop for replacement.
In your case it makes perfect sense to use this app.
You don't want to cook your lap. I don't blame you.
What if the fan that went into the iMac was a dud? In the sense that it couldn't operate at peak performance. They are putting out crappy screens, there is no reason the fan couldn't have issues. In which case the components could be overheating. Apple also seems to like to cake the thermal paste on as well, which insulates the heat rather than conducting it.
Also not all CPUs are exactly alike. I have had two of the "same" processor and one would run warmer in the same configuration at stock speeds. Overheating is thus different for every CPU, one processor can remain stable at high temps while another will buckle under the same heat load.
I can tell you that heat does indeed cause kernel panics. I have had this happen on my current G4, my 2.0 C2D Macbook, a Core Duo Mac Mini, among other Mac computers. Adjusting the fan speed, or putting in new fans (in the case of my G4) made the kernel panics stop. It is indeed common knowledge that blue screens among other symptoms in the PC world are frequently caused by heat. This shows just how little you know about computers in general.
Further, don't speak of things you haven't tested yourself (ironically what you seem to claim others do.) It is difficult to test how much life is added by cooling a CPU better, unless you have done rigorous testing in this area, refrain from fabricating numbers that help support your claim.
In a not so scientific test, a buddy and I built pretty much the same computers about 5 years ago (he wanted to learn how to do it). He went with a cheaper fan as he said he wouldn't be "driving it hard," his CPU died about 3 years in as his temps were way too high (I told him, he didn't listen.) Mine is still going. I am not going to submit this as definitive proof, however, a cooler CPU does increase its life in many cases. We will never know how much however.
WRONG!
"Thermal grease (also called thermal compound, heat paste, thermal paste, or heat sink compound) is a substance that increases thermal conductivity between the surfaces of two or more objects. In electronics, it is often used to aid a component's thermal dissipation via a heat sink."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_grease
Well, gosh I could have sworn you just posted the exact opposite...
Fellow readers do you actually want to take info from this man who has been historically wrong yet insisting he is always right? (Search for his previous posts in the iMac section)
Dude, How many times are you just gonna go around posting info that is just dead wrong? Don't you remember our last thread in which we chatted (LCD Panels)? You could not have been more wrong. Many users called you out on it.
Lol, are you kidding? If the CPU is the same revision, then it is more or less the same chip..
What is different is the environment, whether it be where the computer is placed, how the thermal paste was applied, heat sink used, etc...
Wow, maybe you should let Apple know about these amazing findings! So you have performed a non-scientific test with no control.. wow, this is great!
Common knowledge eh? You sure the main cause is not corrupt files? ya, you may want to do some research on that one before you start throwing garbage info out there.
I love that you tell me how much I know about computers when you don't even know what thermal paste is!!!
Things of which I do not know??? Ya... okay... That statement is rather humorous considering the speaker.. Check out all the mis-info you posted...
And once again I would like to make it clear you have no idea what thermal paste is.
Keep basing your info irreverent personal experience. At least it provides good entertainment.. But that is about it.
if you have too much thermal grease it will insulate....
all the paste does is provides a better insulating surface between the 2 metal components. thus with out thermal paste you have 2 imperfect faces contacting each other right. because of this, there are alot of miniscule air gaps in this contact zone. air is a great insulator and does not transfer heat well at all.
the thermal pastes merely substitutes the air with a medium that has a higher thermal conductivity value......which is still less than metal in most cases.
so if you have too much pastes, it actually hurts than helps
they key is having just enough to fill the "air zones" with the paste
does this make sense?
edit: not all chips are the same. this is due to manufacturing and the imperfections associated with the manuf process. hence why EVERY electronics product/car/whatever has some bad samples.......if all things were created equal. why would we have manufactueres waranty? the answer is simple and its because they arent all produced exactly the same. this is where tolerances and the like play a huge component in manufacturing---to minimize the variations between supposabley the same parts that make their way out to the customer
all the paste does is provides a better insulating surface between the 2 metal components. thus with out thermal paste you have 2 imperfect faces contacting each other right. because of this, there are alot of miniscule air gaps in this contact zone. air is a great insulator and does not transfer heat well at all.
the thermal pastes merely substitutes the air with a medium that has a higher thermal conductivity value......which is still less than metal in most cases.
so if you have too much pastes, it actually hurts than helps
they key is having just enough to fill the "air zones" with the paste
does this make sense?
edit: not all chips are the same. this is due to manufacturing and the imperfections associated with the manuf process. hence why EVERY electronics product/car/whatever has some bad samples.......if all things were created equal. why would we have manufactueres waranty? the answer is simple and its because they arent all produced exactly the same. this is where tolerances and the like play a huge component in manufacturing---to minimize the variations between supposabley the same parts that make their way out to the customer
The fit between a CPU and heat sink is relatively snug. The reason they say not to use too much thermal paste, is because it will ooze out the sides, not insulate. Think about it, the heat sink "clamps" on the cpu.
So, in a sense it is actually impossible to have to much paste, besides it leaking out the sides. Which is a no-no because it could cause a short, but that is another story.
Thermal grease is a conductor and aids in the transfer of heat from the CPU, to the heatsink to the air.. You're absolutely right about air being an insulator.
that makes sense having never messed with the stuff much outside of labs.
however, i remember there being a huge issue when the mbp's were released and how apple used excessive amts of paste which gave many people problems. people then reported after reapplying less paste solved their problems
ill try to post links to some of the threads im talking about
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/199840/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/316736/
these are just some i found
however, i remember there being a huge issue when the mbp's were released and how apple used excessive amts of paste which gave many people problems. people then reported after reapplying less paste solved their problems
ill try to post links to some of the threads im talking about
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/199840/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/316736/
these are just some i found
rezenclowd3
macrumors 65816
Just a quick real world idea to throw out there regarding heat and computers:
I am a network admin (however small) and have recently attended a Network meeting of all the network admins in several school districts close to where I live. One participant was talking about how virtualization will save massive amounts of money. One issue was heat control in the server rack rooms or MDFs (main distribution frame rooms) This network admins site had approx 40 servers of various configs. One concern he brought up was how to effectively cool the room so that the servers would maintain stability. Heat was and is a massive issue to this site. This specific site found for their purposes that if they controlled ambient room temp to lower than normal (I can't remember the exact temps) that server life extended. The average server turnover was 3-4 years, but mainly due to expanding needs and capabilities. Without the air-conditioned MDF, server life dropped to 2-3 years due to component failure, mainly harddrives.
Per square inch, CPUs generate some of the most heat out of many many components out there today, and it is essential to keeping this heat down.
If you want, read this article about over-clocking a PC to 5GHz with liquid nitrogen. It is an old article, but still very applicable to heat generated by hardware.
5GHz Project
That said, SMC fan control can help more then just laptop users. In a desktop enviroment, it may be beneficial to look into water cooling instead, and air does not conduct heat very well, and a fan will reach its limits much faster than water cooling.
I am a network admin (however small) and have recently attended a Network meeting of all the network admins in several school districts close to where I live. One participant was talking about how virtualization will save massive amounts of money. One issue was heat control in the server rack rooms or MDFs (main distribution frame rooms) This network admins site had approx 40 servers of various configs. One concern he brought up was how to effectively cool the room so that the servers would maintain stability. Heat was and is a massive issue to this site. This specific site found for their purposes that if they controlled ambient room temp to lower than normal (I can't remember the exact temps) that server life extended. The average server turnover was 3-4 years, but mainly due to expanding needs and capabilities. Without the air-conditioned MDF, server life dropped to 2-3 years due to component failure, mainly harddrives.
Per square inch, CPUs generate some of the most heat out of many many components out there today, and it is essential to keeping this heat down.
If you want, read this article about over-clocking a PC to 5GHz with liquid nitrogen. It is an old article, but still very applicable to heat generated by hardware.
5GHz Project
That said, SMC fan control can help more then just laptop users. In a desktop enviroment, it may be beneficial to look into water cooling instead, and air does not conduct heat very well, and a fan will reach its limits much faster than water cooling.
Well i'm an iMac owner and a overclocker of windows pc's for years. I would have to agree with you there is nothing about the iMac that needs a 3rd party fan control.
Heat on these systems are all within very safe ranges so even reducing heat in most cases will not extent life. If people are worried about that then spend the 119.00 and get Applecare for three years instead of messing with fan speeds on a system that isn't overclocked.
I guess some people need something to mess with it's not like you can do voltage modes on your iMac so why not mess with fans I guess.
rezenclowd3
macrumors 65816
flopticalcube, you beat me to it.
As of right now, Coolbook should not be used with LED/Santa Rosa Macbooks or Macbook Pros. Read the notes if interested as to why.
As of right now, Coolbook should not be used with LED/Santa Rosa Macbooks or Macbook Pros. Read the notes if interested as to why.
Thank you!
I too came from a world of building and overclocking PC's where you actually had to worry about heat.
Maybe some of these people came from the same roots and can't give up the "moddin' bug."
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I believe the problem only exists for the Pros. The Santa Rosa MacBooks appear to work OK with CoolBook.
I have a late 2007 24" iMac (I guess the same as yours) with the WDC WD3200AAJS-40RYA0 hard disk and according to Western Digital the max temperature for this drive is 55 degrees celcius and the one in my iMac reaches 58 degrees easily without doing much. So I do think smcfancontrol is good for certain Mac's. 58 degrees celcius for a HD is way too hot. My room temperature is around 20 degrees so its not very tropical here. I don't think Apple tested this "to the bone". My CPU however is only at 40 c. So thats pretty "cool"
When Im doing heavy sampling or video editing I need to crank up the hd fan for sure. I would rather have a broken fan instead of a broken HD or CPU or logicboard.
When I record audio I turn the fans way down for just a brief moment so I can make a clear audio recording.
However if you have facts that smcfancontrol is not good for your system, please do share them :->
I just wanna throw in some info here.
I use both coolbook (to undervolt) and a cooling pad with 3 fans in it for my macbook pro. I paricipate in folding @ home so it's always using 100% cpu. What I've found is that even after using coolbook and the cooling pad, the cpu temperature only drops a tiny, tiny bit. The major difference is my fan speed.
My fans now run at about 3,000 rpm, as opposed to the 6,000 rpm they used to run it (which is actually the max fan speed).
So, the macbook pro is satisfied with it's cpu temp. It's just maintaining that same high temp with less fan work now.
I use both coolbook (to undervolt) and a cooling pad with 3 fans in it for my macbook pro. I paricipate in folding @ home so it's always using 100% cpu. What I've found is that even after using coolbook and the cooling pad, the cpu temperature only drops a tiny, tiny bit. The major difference is my fan speed.
My fans now run at about 3,000 rpm, as opposed to the 6,000 rpm they used to run it (which is actually the max fan speed).
So, the macbook pro is satisfied with it's cpu temp. It's just maintaining that same high temp with less fan work now.
Now, aren't you exaggerating a bit here? You know perfectly well, a computer only has a useful life span of a smijillion years... a gillion is just fantasy!
i must say, putting on too much thermal paste, even if it doesn't ooze out the side, hurts the temps. Any computer builder will tell you to spread it thinly. Do you really think ceramics conduct better than metal? They just use it to conduct better than air. Learn your facts...
And yes, I know that most heatpaste is made with metals, but ceramics are used for GPU heatsinks, cuz the chips are so much more delicate towards conducted electricity.
And yes, I know that most heatpaste is made with metals, but ceramics are used for GPU heatsinks, cuz the chips are so much more delicate towards conducted electricity.
Smc Saved My Imac!!
I was recently getting terrible Freezes / kernel Panics and graphics anomalies on this imac!! 2.16ghz
Getting to where the imac was becoming unusable, and having very strange visual behavior and freezing on quartz extreme useage like using quick preview or stacks.
I put it down to a graphics driver issue or leopard or graphic hardware failure etc.
However it was my logic bored getting FRIED!!!!!!!!!!
From eccessive ubove 60c heat!
After thinking the end had come, smc saved my imac And solved the problem instantly!! Happy Happy Me!
lol
PS btw A slightly increased noise level is not a desirable option but a nesasary one for this dated imac. Maybee it has something to do with the room temperature?Increased CPU/GPU usage, Leopard?
It is mid summer here in England.
All I know is I now have a cool running imac. For the first time!
Am I the only person this is happening to???
I was recently getting terrible Freezes / kernel Panics and graphics anomalies on this imac!! 2.16ghz
Getting to where the imac was becoming unusable, and having very strange visual behavior and freezing on quartz extreme useage like using quick preview or stacks.
I put it down to a graphics driver issue or leopard or graphic hardware failure etc.
However it was my logic bored getting FRIED!!!!!!!!!!
From eccessive ubove 60c heat!
After thinking the end had come, smc saved my imac
And solved the problem instantly!! Happy Happy Me!lol
PS btw A slightly increased noise level is not a desirable option but a nesasary one for this dated imac. Maybee it has something to do with the room temperature?Increased CPU/GPU usage, Leopard?
It is mid summer here in England.
All I know is I now have a cool running imac. For the first time!
Am I the only person this is happening to???