Is the base MBP 2020 worth getting over any MBA 2020 just for the cooling system?

[PurpleIsAFruit]

Hi all,

I’m reading so much conflicting information across the internet about the thermals on the MBA and if/how it affects performance and overheating etc.

I think the MBA probably fits my requirements as a light-ish user, but that cooling system really concerns me in terms of longevity. The i5 seems like a great option in principle, but that thermal throttling seems to negate most of the performance gains you would expect from it. Sure you can control the turbo boosting, but if you’re going to avoid turbo boosting, why even bother with the i5?

The Air models obviously have Gen 10 chips, but all things considered, are these really better value than the 8th Gen chips in the base MBP. I would love the 10th Gen Pro model but don’t have the extra £500 to spend.

I want a reliable workhorse that won’t need to be replaced for years to come. Is this possible given the poor thermals of the Air, or would the base MBP be better value even with the slightly older chips? Just for having a fan that is connected to the heat sink it seems worthwhile for preserving the health of the MB and preventing unnecessary overheating. Overheating on things like Zoom calls just seems ridiculous to me, which a few people have reported with the Air.

Obviously I’d like to save money if I can, but if the MBP base model is a better all-round purchase, then I’m prepared to pay for that. I want something that will last.

Thanks for any advice guys.

 

[deeddawg]

i5 is also more about quad core vs dual core - so the system seems to remain pretty snappy for me if I have say Lighroom doing an export or generating previews. Zoom for some reason has an artificial limitation disallowing virtual backgrounds on dual core CPUs yet allowing them on quad core. Relevant? Dunno. Just a point of info.

Remember also the thermal throttling only really affects substantial sustained CPU loads. It doesn't affect brief bursty CPU usage, which is typical for most general usage.

Buy the proper tool for the job.

If you expect to frequently have sustained CPU loading, whether due to frequent sustained compute-intensive tasks or due to software choices such as software-decoding VP9 video codec because you watch 4K Youtube Videos in Chrome, then buy the MBP.

If your usage is brief/bursty CPU usage - or low usage - such as basic websurfing, email, etc - the MBA is a fine system. Bottom case of mine remains comfortable through an evening of usage, and I seldom hear the fan. Safari, mail, numbers, photomechanic, lightroom, little bit of photoshop, even some zoom meetings, etc.

 

[Blueberry123]

I think the MBA probably fits my requirements as a light-ish user, but that cooling system really concerns me in terms of longevity. The i5 seems like a great option in principle, but that thermal throttling seems to negate most of the performance gains you would expect from it.

The base MBP i5 quad core has a proper cooling system and has the 15 watt intel U series chip, that non retina MBA's also had before the new lower 7-10 watt retina MBA's 2018-2020. The 8th gen base MBP seems to perform very well and has good reviews. No concerns with heat, noise and performance. This to me seems the best option for good value quad core performance, cooling and longevity, but you pay extra for that.

To save money, you will have to buy the MBA and test it yourself for your use case and see if it is fine for you. I am in the same situation. Wanting to buy the MBA, but concerned due to the various reported issues some have experienced. Buy from Apple so you can return the MBA if needed. Testing ourselves is the only way to really find out. There are too many negative reports to just dismiss them, equally each use case is different.

 

[Borophyll0520]

i5 is also more about quad core vs dual core - so the system seems to remain pretty snappy for me if I have say Lighroom doing an export or generating previews. Zoom for some reason has an artificial limitation disallowing virtual backgrounds on dual core CPUs yet allowing them on quad core. Relevant? Dunno. Just a point of info.

Remember also the thermal throttling only really affects substantial sustained CPU loads. It doesn't affect brief bursty CPU usage, which is typical for most general usage.

Buy the proper tool for the job.

If you expect to frequently have sustained CPU loading, whether due to frequent sustained compute-intensive tasks or due to software choices such as software-decoding VP9 video codec because you watch 4K Youtube Videos in Chrome, then buy the MBP.

If your usage is brief/bursty CPU usage - or low usage - such as basic websurfing, email, etc - the MBA is a fine system. Bottom case of mine remains comfortable through an evening of usage, and I seldom hear the fan. Safari, mail, numbers, photomechanic, lightroom, little bit of photoshop, even some zoom meetings, etc.

I have similar laptop usage and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the Air CPU reaching almost 100 degrees Celsius during those brief bursts as it relates to longevity? I have the 2020 Air i5 and it reaches 97 while doing some minor "hobby photography" light room edits.

 

[deeddawg]

I have similar laptop usage and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the Air CPU reaching almost 100 degrees Celsius during those brief bursts as it relates to longevity? I have the 2020 Air i5 and it reaches 97 while doing some minor "hobby photography" light room edits.

I would first ask what causes you to be concerned about that temperature?

Intel's specification for the Core i5-1030NG7 CPU shows a maximum allowed Tjunction temperature of 100C - at which point the CPU will self-throttle to keep its temperature at or below that design specification temperature.

So thus I have I have no concerns about longevity. It's not being pushed beyond what it's designed to handle.

For more info see:

Intel® Core™ i5-1030NG7 Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.50 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Core™ i5-1030NG7 Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.50 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

Safe CPU Temps: How Hot Should My CPU Be? (Idle & Under Load)

It is always a good idea to monitor you CPU's temperature...But monitoring your CPU temps won't do you any good if you don't know what temperature it should be running at. In this guide, we'll show you how to check your CPU's temperature as well as help you figure out how hot your CPU should be...

techguided.com

Particularly in the latter, note the statement:

Most processors run at different temperatures, whether by slightly differing amounts, or by significant temperature differences.

So, the first thing you need to understand is that you shouldn’t compare the temperatures you are getting to the temperatures someone else is getting who has a completely different processor.

 

[aajeevlin]

i5 is also more about quad core vs dual core - so the system seems to remain pretty snappy for me if I have say Lighroom doing an export or generating previews. Zoom for some reason has an artificial limitation disallowing virtual backgrounds on dual core CPUs yet allowing them on quad core. Relevant? Dunno. Just a point of info.

Remember also the thermal throttling only really affects substantial sustained CPU loads. It doesn't affect brief bursty CPU usage, which is typical for most general usage.

Buy the proper tool for the job.

If you expect to frequently have sustained CPU loading, whether due to frequent sustained compute-intensive tasks or due to software choices such as software-decoding VP9 video codec because you watch 4K Youtube Videos in Chrome, then buy the MBP.

If your usage is brief/bursty CPU usage - or low usage - such as basic websurfing, email, etc - the MBA is a fine system. Bottom case of mine remains comfortable through an evening of usage, and I seldom hear the fan. Safari, mail, numbers, photomechanic, lightroom, little bit of photoshop, even some zoom meetings, etc.

What would you classify casual coding as? Burst of usage? I see so many reviews on content editing no one really taking about just coding or casual electronic project....

 

[deeddawg]

What would you classify casual coding as? Burst of usage? I see so many reviews on content editing no one really taking about just coding or casual electronic project....

It's been so many years since I did any coding, I'm probably not going to be able to give much help.

My guess would be that basic code creation / editing should be perfectly fine - the crux is going to be what amount of resources are used when you're compiling / testing / debugging. And that's likely to be very dependent on what you're coding and what the the test / debug environment looks like.

Perhaps if you give more details of what you're coding and what tools you're using for that, someone familiar with that tool / environment can give you some guidance.

 

[aajeevlin]

It's been so many years since I did any coding, I'm probably not going to be able to give much help.

My guess would be that basic code creation / editing should be perfectly fine - the crux is going to be what amount of resources are used when you're compiling / testing / debugging. And that's likely to be very dependent on what you're coding and what the the test / debug environment looks like.

Perhaps if you give more details of what you're coding and what tools you're using for that, someone familiar with that tool / environment can give you some guidance.

Thanks, yea good advice. Mostly, I'm coding with Eclipse (or Intellij) nothing fancy. I'm developing from a pre-existing project for space application, it's a bit heavy on math but I'm going to be using the project as a users. There might be database to deal with from time to time, but I don't foreseen it to be anything extreme.

As for the electronics project, it's mostly Arduino or variant of that. I do absolutely no video/photo editing.

I might touch on some VM "might", but I don't want to pay for upgrade just on a might. I'm thinking just going for the base model i3 at this point.

 

[deeddawg]

Thanks, yea good advice. Mostly, I'm coding with Eclipse (or Intellij) nothing fancy. I'm developing from a pre-existing project for space application, it's a bit heavy on math but I'm going to be using the project as a users. There might be database to deal with from time to time, but I don't foreseen it to be anything extreme.

As for the electronics project, it's mostly Arduino or variant of that. I do absolutely no video/photo editing.

I might touch on some VM "might", but I don't want to pay for upgrade just on a might. I'm thinking just going for the base model i3 at this point.

Order from Apple, make sure you leave the system open and awake overnight first couple days for everything to finish indexing, then hammer the &@$#*& out of it for the next ten days. Return/exchange for a MBP if you find it isn't a fit to your needs. With Apple you have 14 days to initiate the return, then an additional couple weeks to get it to them. (at least that's how it is in the US, dunno if you're elsewhere)

 

[aajeevlin]

Order from Apple, make sure you leave the system open and awake overnight first couple days for everything to finish indexing, then hammer the &@$#*& out of it for the next ten days. Return/exchange for a MBP if you find it isn't a fit to your needs. With Apple you have 14 days to initiate the return, then an additional couple weeks to get it to them. (at least that's how it is in the US, dunno if you're elsewhere)

Haha, thanks yea that's probably the best way to go about it. Don't want to abuse the return policy, but it's a good way to test drive the machine.

 

[ckip10]

I was going to go with the base i3 MBA but wound up buying the base 2020 MBP. I just felt like it was worth the extra money to get the quad core without the cooling issues. I am a light user but didn't want to have to worry about over taxing the machine if I did do some Photoshop, etc. I've never owned an i3 and the reviews were good, I just felt like the quad core in the MBP would fit my needs better.

 

[deeddawg]

I was going to go with the base i3 MBA but wound up buying the base 2020 MBP. I just felt like it was worth the extra money to get the quad core without the cooling issues. I am a light user but didn't want to have to worry about over taxing the machine if I did do some Photoshop, etc. I've never owned an i3 and the reviews were good, I just felt like the quad core in the MBP would fit my needs better.

Glad you're happy with your MBP. Did you actually experience these "cooling issues" with an i5 MBA?

Just curious since my i5 MBA handles LR and Photoshop just fine, remaining cool and quiet for most usage.

Yep, when I generate 1000 previews or export a few dozen RAW files I hear a fan spin up a bit - never obtrusive tho.... then goes away when I'm done. Same thing happens on my MBP15.

 

[Borophyll0520]

I would first ask what causes you to be concerned about that temperature?

Intel's specification for the Core i5-1030NG7 CPU shows a maximum allowed Tjunction temperature of 100C - at which point the CPU will self-throttle to keep its temperature at or below that design specification temperature.

So thus I have I have no concerns about longevity. It's not being pushed beyond what it's designed to handle.

For more info see:

Intel® Core™ i5-1030NG7 Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.50 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Core™ i5-1030NG7 Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.50 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

Safe CPU Temps: How Hot Should My CPU Be? (Idle & Under Load)

It is always a good idea to monitor you CPU's temperature...But monitoring your CPU temps won't do you any good if you don't know what temperature it should be running at. In this guide, we'll show you how to check your CPU's temperature as well as help you figure out how hot your CPU should be...

techguided.com

Particularly in the latter, note the statement:

Thank you for the informative response! I found it interesting in the second article that the Author did say for his Intel CPU (With a similar T-Junction): "For my i7-8700K, the TJunction (TJ Max) is 100-degrees Celsius. That means that as long as my processor stays under 100-degrees Celsius, it should be fine for the short term.

However, for the health of my processor and my system, I’d prefer that my processor operated at temperatures far below that number. "

But with the physical constraints of the Air - it will operate closer to T-Junction when pushed. The good thing is that it only gets close briefly and usually sits at 60C when not using Lightroom or Final Cut.

 

[PurpleIsAFruit]

The base MBP i5 quad core has a proper cooling system and has the 15 watt intel U series chip, that non retina MBA's also had before the new lower 7-10 watt retina MBA's 2018-2020. The 8th gen base MBP seems to perform very well and has good reviews. No concerns with heat, noise and performance. This to me seems the best option for good value quad core performance, cooling and longevity, but you pay extra for that.

To save money, you will have to buy the MBA and test it yourself for your use case and see if it is fine for you. I am in the same situation. Wanting to buy the MBA, but concerned due to the various reported issues some have experienced. Buy from Apple so you can return the MBA if needed. Testing ourselves is the only way to really find out. There are too many negative reports to just dismiss them, equally each use case is different.

Even though the MPB 2020 base model performs well, is that sustainable given it’s already kind of outdated by a couple of years? Even though the 10th gen chips aren’t as powerful, they are newer which one might suggest means they will last longer.

It’s a tough one as nobody wants to buy something outdated, but nobody really wants to buy something newer with a huge design flaw which could kill the longevity of the device. There’s something that feels odd about paying £200 for older specs, even if they are better protected than the Air’s.

In truth I think the Air will be able to handle the bulk of what I do, but as a long term purchase, I want whatever I buy to have the capacity to take on a little more if the need should ever occur. Essentially, I want a device I don’t need to worry about for years to come.

 

[deeddawg]

nobody really wants to buy something newer with a huge design flaw which could kill the longevity of the device.

Explain please? What is your concern w.r.t. longevity?

Intel's specification for the Core i5-1030NG7 CPU shows a maximum allowed Tjunction temperature of 100C - at which point the CPU will self-throttle to keep its temperature at or below that design specification temperature.

It's not being pushed beyond what it's designed to handle.

... and I think we all agree that the MBA isn't aimed at substantial sustained CPU intensive workloads.

 

[Blueberry123]

It’s a tough one as nobody wants to buy something outdated, but nobody really wants to buy something newer with a huge design flaw which could kill the longevity of the device. There’s something that feels odd about paying £200 for older specs, even if they are better protected than the Air’s.

At the £1000 to £1300 price point, Apple has certainly created a dilemma for us making that choice to buy a new MBA or MBP in 2020. It is a disappointment to still use the 8th gen cpu in the base MBP, as there are some improvements in the 10th gen, especially graphics. Equally the MBA has been intentionally limited by design.

If you could achieve a good discount, that would help sweeten the deal on offer for this years base MBP. Laptopdirect.co.uk has a saving of £100 on the base MBP. The only other option is to wait and see what choices are available in 2021, 14" MBP? ARM cpu? redesigns? Decisions to make.

 

[PurpleIsAFruit]

At the £1000 to £1300 price point, Apple has certainly created a dilemma for us making that choice to buy a new MBA or MBP in 2020. It is a disappointment to still use the 8th gen cpu in the base MBP, as there are some improvements in the 10th gen, especially graphics. Equally the MBA has been intentionally limited by design.

If you could achieve a good discount, that would help sweeten the deal on offer for this years base MBP. Laptopdirect.co.uk has a saving of £100 on the base MBP. The only other option is to wait and see what choices are available in 2021, 14" MBP? ARM cpu? redesigns? Decisions to make.

It frustrates me that Apple have deliberately capped the capability of the Air so that it doesn’t infringe upon the Pro territory. I don’t think I need a Pro, and yet I’m worried about not having one because of that damn cooling system which I fear could lead to early failure of the Air. It’s also conflicting when you read reports that the Air is faster for single core activities, but then gets ripped up by the 8th Gen MBP on anything multi-core. It’s just not a straight forward decision.

I need a laptop now to be honest as I just sold my last one. Currently relying on my iPad Pro.

Explain please? What is your concern w.r.t. longevity?

Intel's specification for the Core i5-1030NG7 CPU shows a maximum allowed Tjunction temperature of 100C - at which point the CPU will self-throttle to keep its temperature at or below that design specification temperature.

It's not being pushed beyond what it's designed to handle.

... and I think we all agree that the MBA isn't aimed at substantial sustained CPU intensive workloads.

My concern is that even if the chip is built to stop at 100c, it’s still not healthy for the CPU to be reaching that temperature on a regular basis. It’s known for causing early failure in laptop devices. I don’t think I need a Pro, but it concerns me that people are saying things like Zoom calls and downloading programs is causing the Air to hit 100c. It almost feels as though the Air’s cooling system is built to fail so that people will have to upgrade or pay for repairs.

 

[deeddawg]

My concern is that even if the chip is built to stop at 100c, it’s still not healthy for the CPU to be reaching that temperature on a regular basis. It’s known for causing early failure in laptop devices. I don’t think I need a Pro, but it concerns me that people are saying things like Zoom calls and downloading programs is causing the Air to hit 100c. It almost feels as though the Air’s cooling system is built to fail so that people will have to upgrade or pay for repairs.

I'm not sure you can necessarily assume the same things hold true across different CPU generations/dies.

The 10th gen CPUs seem to like to hit 100C. Check this MBP thread where its hitting 100C as well: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2020-1799-mbp-unusual-benchmark-performance.2234895/

I believe the 2020 MBA cooling system is same as the prior 2018/19 MBA models - just the CPU has changed to a lower TDP CPU and the heatsink made bigger in 2020. See the ifixit teardown and comparison: https://www.ifixit.com/News/36480/theres-something-new-in-the-macbook-air

As for Zoom - I've had three or four Zoom meetings with my i5 MBA, typically six or seven participants. Haven't yet heard the fan spin.

Nor has downloading anything caused any fan noise.

Really the only time I ever hear fan noise is if I'm actively pushing it - exporting a couple dozen RAW images, or recreating previews for a 100 images. Currently with mail, calendar, 1password, notes, imessage, chrome, safari, and activity monitor open it is silent -- topcase temp just above F6 is 88F and bottom case temp is 85F using an IR thermometer. I've not felt any need to install one of the monitor programs so I can't tell you Tjunction temp.

All that said, a MBP may still be the better choice for your needs -- but make the decision from the basis of knowledge not assumption.

Maybe consider buying from somewhere you can easily return the system to and experience it yourself?

 

[Pugly]

It should be okay. I used the i5, and it handled everything just fine. It wasn't a big enough jump in performance for me compared to what I had, and for what I needed it to do (logic and some light gaming) I felt the fans turned on too much. But I tend to push the hardware I get.

So I ended up returning it, because it wasn't the right machine for me. But it was still pretty good.

I wouldn't worry about it running too hot either. All these light Macs push up to 100 degrees from time to time, and they just keep on going. My old Air's battery and case are getting more worn out than the cpu.

 

[Blueberry123]

I need a laptop now to be honest as I just sold my last one. Currently relying on my iPad Pro.

I'm having the same thought process as you, initially wanting to buy the MBA, not a MBP. I may buy the i5 MBA from Apple, so I can test it for my use case of using chrome with multiple tabs and watching youtube. If I found the MBA to be hot and noisy, I would return it. My old 2013 MBA is quiet and cool on my lap with my basic use.

I will have a look at both the base MBP and MBA in an apple store when they likely open again in June. The price difference is only £100 between a custom i5 MBA from Apple at £1099 and a base MBP discounted from other retailers at £1199. In that context, the quad core MBP, with increased performance, better screen, better speakers and better cooling system, looks a good choice (negatives to me of the MBP are the touch bar, heavier, 8th gen cpu and form factor v MBA).

 

[Out2Grass]

For what its worth.

Previously my family had clubbed together to give me an iPhone SE 2020 for my birthday to keep in touch during lockdown.
I was so impressed with the Apple phone I decided to purchase an Apple laptop.

After researching and reading posts on MacRumors I purchased an i3 Mac Air to replace my very old Asus
laptop (which I had running linux).
I am particularly grateful to RiaKoobcam ,for an in-depth review ,and deeddawg for their information and advice. And many other contributors.

I am a light user , browsing with safari and watching you tube, doing letters , storing photos, shopping and emailing. I have an internet radio running while on the Air. I seldom have more than three tabs open.
The machine is perfect for my needs and I have not had the fan running at all.
I downloaded the "fanny' app to check on temperature , it has not gone over 50 degrees and usually runs between 30 and 40 degrees.

I am getting use to the operating system , was worried about using the track pad and purchased a cheap bluetooth mouse. Wish I hadn't because the track pad is brilliant and easy to use.
I am very pleased with my purchase and investigating everything on the system and what else I can do with it.
It is smooth and fast. It works great.

I am an old bloke in the UK and purchased at John Lewis with a two year guarantee. My computer knowledge and skill is very limited.
I love it.

 

[Blueberry123]

I am a light user , browsing with safari and watching you tube, doing letters , storing photos, shopping and emailing. I have an internet radio running while on the Air. I seldom have more than three tabs open.

The i3 MBA at £999 is great value and perfect for light use, especially using safari. I have loved and travelled the world with my 11 inch MBA for the last 7 years. I want the MBA form factor and am happy to move to the larger retina screen of the 2020 MBA 13 inch. It should be the perfect replacement for me.

Apple has finally removed the poor butterfly keyboard. The only missing part of the 2012 to 2017 MBA was a retina screen. The 2020 MBA has a retina screen and a good scissor keyboard. All great? Perhaps, but Apple has changed the cooling system compared to the non retina MBA and are also using lower powered cpu's. This has limited the thermal performance, so that sadly, it is not so easy to go and buy with the same confidence as I did in 2013.

There are valid concerns of the performance which requires personal testing of the MBA, so you would need the ability to return it for a refund or exchange, if found not suitable. Depending on your workload, previous non retina MBA owners may have to buy the base MBP, to have the same quiet and cool experience, while using on your lap.

 

[Jimmy James]

I have the same concerns as OP. I have an 11.5 year old MacBook and I question whether it would still be here if it was routinely running hotter. Not just heat related cpu failure.

Based on that alone I’d go for the i3. However, the i5 has an improved GPU. That’s the most limiting factor in my current machine and I suspect would be the long-term limitation here.

 

[ctrlzone]

this looks promising to me

 

[russell_314]

this looks promising to me

This is why Apple feels the need to dumb down things for their users. People who know just a little bit but not enough to completely understand the topic are the worse when it comes to tech support. I can see the call to tech support now "OMG my Mac is at 100 degrees... It's going to burn out the CPU and catch fire!" No calm down sir it's working within spec and as intended.

This being said I use Turbo Boost Switcher and it's a great program but it's more because I like to tinker rather than I'm worried my computer will overheat and die.