Is the butterfly keyboard really that bad? -- upgrading from a 2012/'15

[kuebby]

I'm sure this has been debated to death but I've been out of the loop for a while so I'm not really sure how to approach this issue, and feel like I'm kind of stuck.

Currently I have a mid-2012 15" rMBP which is on its last legs (multiple issues) as well as a 2015 13" MBA as backup (bought when the rMBP first started having issues and now it just barely gets used since I mostly used the rMBP as a desktop).

I really like the 15" form factor so even though I don't need the power I love the retina screen and couldn't downgrade now.

So I'm looking at a 2017 15" rMBP with 16gb/1tb and getting rid of both computers I currently have. The only thing I'm worried about is the butterfly keyboard. Will it last? I mean, there's a key falling off my rMBP right now, so no keyboard is perfect, but I have no way to try the butterfly out before buying but besides spending 2x or more on a more recent computer, I can't think of any way around getting a butterfly keyboard. I'd like to use the 2017 for at least 4-5 years from purchase date, as that would make it as old as my current 2012 is now.

Thanks for any help, just trying to avoid buyers remorse and make the best decision possible.

 

[jabbr]

yes. Avoid completely

 

[537635]

Yes. It is REALLY that bad.

 

[spiderman0616]

I try not to complain about things that don't matter. The butterfly keyboards are not one of those things. I complain about them whenever the topic comes up, because they are pure garbage. Do not buy a laptop with that kind of keyboard on it. You will kick yourself later.

 

[kasakka]

The one on my 2016 model was so bad I carried a 60% size mechanical keyboard with me that I put on top of the built in keyboard. I don't mind my 2019 model's keyboard.

 

[chrfr]

Yes, it's that bad. If it weren't so bad, Apple wouldn't have put a 4 year warranty on every one of them.

 

[mw360]

Do you think you’d enjoy typing passwords into blinded boxes when you don’t know which of your keys are working today? If so, then it’s fine. Otherwise they are the worst keyboards I ever used, and I used to have a ZX Spectrum.

 

[seeforyourself]

I'm sure this has been debated to death but I've been out of the loop for a while so I'm not really sure how to approach this issue, and feel like I'm kind of stuck.

Currently I have a mid-2012 15" rMBP which is on its last legs (multiple issues) as well as a 2015 13" MBA as backup (bought when the rMBP first started having issues and now it just barely gets used since I mostly used the rMBP as a desktop).

I really like the 15" form factor so even though I don't need the power I love the retina screen and couldn't downgrade now.

So I'm looking at a 2017 15" rMBP with 16gb/1tb and getting rid of both computers I currently have. The only thing I'm worried about is the butterfly keyboard. Will it last? I mean, there's a key falling off my rMBP right now, so no keyboard is perfect, but I have no way to try the butterfly out before buying but besides spending 2x or more on a more recent computer, I can't think of any way around getting a butterfly keyboard. I'd like to use the 2017 for at least 4-5 years from purchase date, as that would make it as old as my current 2012 is now.

Thanks for any help, just trying to avoid buyers remorse and make the best decision possible.

I purchased a butterfly 15' macbook pro with the butterfly keyboard when it first came out. I remember having an issue with it the first month of owning it. It was sticking keys and double pressing here and there. I got the keyboard replaced and was without it for 2 weeks when I needed it the most (I was a college student).

A month later after getting the whole lower case replaced (they can't just fix the keyboard), it happened AGAIN. Got it replaced again, then it happened for the third time after 6 months and I wasn't even eating near it (supposedly even dust can make it stick).

They replaced it with a new one which I continued to have issues with that one too (unsurprisingly). That second replacement got replaced with another one and that one was a "16 with the updated mechanical keyboard. NEVER had an issue with this 16" of owning it since the 16" was released.

So long story short; yes it is really THAT bad. Avoid it like the plague.

 

[iStorm]

I'm still using a 2017 15" MBP and the keyboard has been fine. Not everyone has issues with it, but yeah...I'd probably avoid it, especially considering a key is falling off your current one.

Also, keep in mind that it would be an Intel Mac. We don't know how long Apple will be supporting those. Some are speculating that Ventura will be the last OS for Intel Macs...at least for the 2017 models. Ventura dropped support for 2013-2016 Macs; 2017 models will soon be the oldest models supported.

 

[Spock]

I ddddddddont kow wht you al arrre talkinggg about,, they work finne.

 

[B.Bain]

I'm currently on a 2017 MacBook Pro that I purchased in late 2017, and honestly I haven't had a single problem with the keyboard. I love the almost mechanical sound of the keys when pressed as well. I do own a 2020 M1 MacBook Air as well but that's hooked up to a 4k monitor most of the time.

I guess it will be a 50/50 shot whether you get one that has a bad keyboard or if you'll luck out and get one without problems.

 

[spiderman0616]

I'm currently on a 2017 MacBook Pro that I purchased in late 2017, and honestly I haven't had a single problem with the keyboard. I love the almost mechanical sound of the keys when pressed as well. I do own a 2020 M1 MacBook Air as well but that's hooked up to a 4k monitor most of the time.

I guess it will be a 50/50 shot whether you get one that has a bad keyboard or if you'll luck out and get one without problems.

Yeah, I had one machine from that era that was brand new and I never had problems with the keyboard mechanically, but I also almost never typed on it because my work computers are usually docked. I had another machine from that era at a different job that was a disaster.

The common denominator though was that I hated typing on both. Sounds like you don't mind it!

 

[Mr. Awesome]

I'm sure this has been debated to death but I've been out of the loop for a while so I'm not really sure how to approach this issue, and feel like I'm kind of stuck.

Currently I have a mid-2012 15" rMBP which is on its last legs (multiple issues) as well as a 2015 13" MBA as backup (bought when the rMBP first started having issues and now it just barely gets used since I mostly used the rMBP as a desktop).

I really like the 15" form factor so even though I don't need the power I love the retina screen and couldn't downgrade now.

So I'm looking at a 2017 15" rMBP with 16gb/1tb and getting rid of both computers I currently have. The only thing I'm worried about is the butterfly keyboard. Will it last? I mean, there's a key falling off my rMBP right now, so no keyboard is perfect, but I have no way to try the butterfly out before buying but besides spending 2x or more on a more recent computer, I can't think of any way around getting a butterfly keyboard. I'd like to use the 2017 for at least 4-5 years from purchase date, as that would make it as old as my current 2012 is now.

Thanks for any help, just trying to avoid buyers remorse and make the best decision possible.

I have the exact 2017 model you’re describing and I’ve never experienced more than the H key getting stuck about once or twice a year, but I’ve definitely gotten lucky. There are plenty of other people who have experienced issues with it, and they probably outnumber those who haven’t 2:1. Even if you’re like me and you’re really careful about dust and cleaning your hands, you statistically will probably experience issues with it.

 

[XXPP]

not bad at all. I love it.

 

[planteater]

Don’t buy any used machine with the butterfly keyboard. It’s too great of a risk for failure. If it fails it won’t be economically feasible to fix.

 

[kuebby]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Sounds like I should just keep using my current computers until it's no longer viable, then upgrade directly to an Apple-cored machine. It's not what I wanted the answer to be (a new to me laptop for $750 was tempting) but I'm smart enough to follow advice occasionally, since I've certainly experienced the decline in Apple quality since Tim Cook took over--you can no longer simply trust Apple products.

 

[spiderman0616]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Sounds like I should just keep using my current computers until it's no longer viable, then upgrade directly to an Apple-cored machine. It's not what I wanted the answer to be but I'm smart enough to follow advice occasionally, since I've certainly experienced the decline in Apple quality since Tim Cook took over--you can no longer simply trust Apple products.

You can trust the new ones. It could be argued that quality eventually INCREASED with the Mac under Tim Cook. He navigated through the bad Jonny Ive keyboards and the pandemic and still pulled off an architecture change.

 

[1rottenapple]

yes. Avoid completely

Seconded. I owned MacBooks 12 inch and 1 MacBook 13. All had keyboard issues. And let me tell you. Keyboard issues means replacing 50% of the laptop because of how apple designed the keyboard. So it’s true a crumb of cookie can literally cost you your computer. The 12 inch had the keyboard repaired. I sold it after the warranty work to some guy. The 13 had keyboard issues time to time where it felt it didn’t register but it got better after I flew air into it. But the keyboard is very very shallow. So it’s as though the you can’t press the computer in. Don’t buy it unless you’ll use the computer in clamshell mode and ONLY if you have get a diet cheap deal because anyone who owns that computer knows it’s compromised and looking to offload it. I offloaded mine after either the issue was fixed or it wasn’t occurring because it will happen again as you use the computer and dusk or hair or whatever falls in the laptop.

Get the redesigned keyboard. They’re worth it. I’ve never had issues with the 2019 16 in keyboard and same with my 14 mbp keyboard. They work as intended.

 

[exoticSpice]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Sounds like I should just keep using my current computers until it's no longer viable, then upgrade directly to an Apple-cored machine. It's not what I wanted the answer to be (a new to me laptop for $750 was tempting) but I'm smart enough to follow advice occasionally, since I've certainly experienced the decline in Apple quality since Tim Cook took over--you can no longer simply trust Apple products.

IMO The 2016-2019 butterfly era was awful. The new >2020 MacBooks however are outstanding and are great to use. The quality of MacBooks has gone up greatly since late 2019.

 

[planteater]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Sounds like I should just keep using my current computers until it's no longer viable, then upgrade directly to an Apple-cored machine. It's not what I wanted the answer to be (a new to me laptop for $750 was tempting) but I'm smart enough to follow advice occasionally, since I've certainly experienced the decline in Apple quality since Tim Cook took over--you can no longer simply trust Apple products.

By all appearances the Apple Silicon laptops have had an excellent service record, similar to all pre-butterfly keyboard machines. If you come across a new/used/refurbed M1/M2 laptop it is certain to please. I upgraded my trusty 2015 MBP 15 to a 2021 MBP M1 Pro 16 and couldn't be happier. The Air line is excellent too if those specs meet your requirements.

 

[glhiii]

If you're getting an older machine, consider the 16" 2019 MBP. Of course it doesn't have all the features (ProMotion etc.) of the 2021 MBP, but you could save money and end up with a fast computer with a good screen and keyboard.

 

[kuebby]

If you're getting an older machine, consider the 16" 2019 MBP. Of course it doesn't have all the features (ProMotion etc.) of the 2021 MBP, but you could save money and end up with a fast computer with a good screen and keyboard.

Yeah, that'll probably be the one I wait for and get eventually. If I don't find a good deal on the mid-15 rMBP that was the last one before the USB-c change.

 

[pavinder]

People seem to all be discussing the fact that the butterfly keyboards were prone to failure.

For me, simply the feel of the keys was a deal breaker. I hate the lack of movement and feeling of flatness. Obviously not as bad as trying to type on a touchscreen, but nevertheless strange and unsatisfying.

 

[redpandadev]

I actually prefer the butterfly keyboard for the same reasons apple introduced it in the first place - thin but with good travel, stable feel, plenty clicky.

In my immediate family there are 4 different MacBook pros (a 2017, 2x 2018s and a 2019). None of them have had any keyboard issues whatsoever.

 

[537635]

I actually prefer the butterfly keyboard for the same reasons apple introduced it in the first place - thin but with good travel, stable feel, plenty clicky.

In my immediate family there are 4 different MacBook pros (a 2017, 2x 2018s and a 2019). None of them have had any keyboard issues whatsoever.

I agree with this, I also prefer typing on them, travel is nice and you can type with very little effort. Most of all I like the stability, classical keys wobble, these don't.


But it ends here. These keyboards are useless. I probably did 4 or 5 topcase replacements because of failing keys. And it's not an on/off type of failure. Sometimes the keys don't register, sometimes they register twice. This is a nightmare to use. It's almost impossible to replicate but on the other hand you feel as if your typing skills are degrading.