Is the Innovation Lost?

[Zirel]

I agree to a point.
I think they did a decent job with the watch, but it hasn't taken over the way I think they were hoping for.

The iPhone has not seen anything meaningful for a few years now. For instance many phones have had wireless charging for some time.

Wireless charging is nothing innovative, Nikola Tesla invented it in the 1890s

Which phones out there have 3D Touch, Taptic Engines, Real Dual Cameras with Machine Learning Depth of Field effects?, and have dual speakers and water resistance, but at the same time?

Also, innovation is not the most important things, what's important is that the costumer is happy with his purchase.

Many features like you mentioned "wireless charging" on android phones, first most people don't use them at all, because the charger is expensive, second, it's useless, something you use one time and tell people online, because it doesn't make a difference. It makes a difference in watches, for example, because they are prone to dirt and moisture, and there's simply no space for a connector. But for phones and tablets, truly wireless charging is what's needed.

Also, by far, the most innovative product this year has been the AirPods, everything about it is just perfect. The size of them, the batteries that last twice as much as brand name competitors while being essentially non-existent, the case, the magnets, the sound quality, it just trashed what everyone is doing, looks like it's from the future.

Apple is more focused on making the MBP thinner, where as laptops such as the Surface Book bring some nice innovative designs.

The MBP is thinner, and has a better battery life than the thicker MBP, or the SurfaceBook, or etc. in tests, the MBP os shown to have almost double the battery life of the SurfaceBook and Microsoft lies the battery life, but pays TheVerge and etc. to hype them and bash Apple.

The whole Surface line is a failure, it's not what people asked, it's what geeks that hate tablets asked, but don't buy because it's expensive.

Microsoft is laughable, their Surface revenue is less than Apple's in their worst year, when they bought NeXT and before the introduction of the iMac (the same year of the cover of Wired), accounting for inflation, Apple was selling the double of what Microsoft is selling now.

The Surface line is down 2% y/y in revenue, despite the introduction of the $3000 starting price SurfaceStudio, while the Mac is up 7%.

The innovations hyped by Ms fans are useless, most people look at it and see an ugly laptop that can't be fold like the others and a crude hinge that look like will certainly will give them problems after some time.

 

[scrumpyjack]

That's already happened, and in fact, I'd say the iPhone was frequently behind the curve, even when Jobs was around.

Always behind on paper, always overpriced, yet always the most popular. I always remember this image, but who cared about the Nexus 4? They were a little generous on the wireless charging too.

 

[maflynn]

yet always the most popular.

I think because Apple isn't just about hardware specs, but rather the experience. They have done a good job with the UX

 

[pat500000]

I agree to a point.
I think they did a decent job with the watch, but it hasn't taken over the way I think they were hoping for.

The iPhone has not seen anything meaningful for a few years now. For instance many phones have had wireless charging for some time.

Apple is more focused on making the MBP thinner, where as laptops such as the Surface Book bring some nice innovative designs.

I hear you, but form factor is not an innovation...at least IMO. Any company can make it thinner or wider per se. Watch is nice and all..i'm just talking in general.
[doublepost=1486231715][/doublepost]

The iPad is better in battery, it's faster, slimmer, no fans, etc.

The iPad doesn't have problems with malware, sleep, fan noise, drivers, updates, etc.

In fact, the Surface is a compromised tablet, because you can't really use it without the kneeboard and mouse.

[doublepost=1486194642][/doublepost]

Yeah, sure

http://www.investopedia.com/news/apple-most-innovative-company-pricewaterhousecooper-aapl/

Meanwhile, Google is copying the iPhone 6 with the Pixel, Microsoft is selling less Surfaces than Apple when they were doomed (before the introduction of the iMac), in fact, not even half!

Now go talk to your friends on Google Plus and listen to music Microsoft Groove. Just sad!

Just because one writer says so? Who cares if they copy apple for whatever reason. Anyone could make thinner..lighter. Innovation is something you invent...something new to progress. How is thinner and battery killing factor into innovation? Keep telling yourself that mbp is better than z series workstation.


You're out of line with your last comment.

Edit: By the way, how is iphone 7 design innovation? It's a same form with additional stuff.

 

[Zirel]

Always behind on paper, always overpriced, yet always the most popular. I always remember this image, but who cared about the Nexus 4? They were a little generous on the wireless charging too.

I remember, it's full of innacuracies and it's one-sided.

For example, the Nexus 6 doesn't have NFC payments.

The Nexus 6 doesn't have widgets like the iPhone 6 now has (everywhere in the NC, homescreen, locksceen, etc), the notifications on iOS are far more advanced than Android, the screen on the Nexus 4 is washed out compared to the iPhone 6, etc.

BTW, right now iPhone 6 runs 10.3, and the Nexus 4 (and 5, and 6) don't run the latest version of Nougat.
[doublepost=1486236290][/doublepost]

Just because one writer says so?

Which writer?

Who cares if they copy apple for whatever reason.

Oh...

Anyone could make thinner..lighter. Innovation is something you invent...something new to progress. How is thinner and battery killing factor into innovation?

No, they can't, the Pixel, for example, is thicker and heavier, yet has worse battery life.

Apple products are thinner because Apple can, because Apple INNOVATES in areas to make that happen.

Keep telling yourself that mbp is better than z series workstation.

It is, it works without a power cord.

You're out of line with your last comment.

Convinced.

Edit: By the way, how is iphone 7 design innovation? It's a same form with additional stuff.

The new jet black color is a finish never seen before in any aluminium object.

While others make the same thing, just looking different for the sake of it, Apple innovates and make it look the same shape, because there's no more innovation possible, no new shapes were invented.

 

[tubeexperience]

Wireless charging is nothing innovative, Nikola Tesla invented it in the 1890s

Which phones out there have 3D Touch, Taptic Engines, Real Dual Cameras with Machine Learning Depth of Field effects?, and have dual speakers and water resistance, but at the same time?

Also, innovation is not the most important things, what's important is that the costumer is happy with his purchase.

Many features like you mentioned "wireless charging" on android phones, first most people don't use them at all, because the charger is expensive, second, it's useless, something you use one time and tell people online, because it doesn't make a difference. It makes a difference in watches, for example, because they are prone to dirt and moisture, and there's simply no space for a connector. But for phones and tablets, truly wireless charging is what's needed.

Also, by far, the most innovative product this year has been the AirPods, everything about it is just perfect. The size of them, the batteries that last twice as much as brand name competitors while being essentially non-existent, the case, the magnets, the sound quality, it just trashed what everyone is doing, looks like it's from the future.

"3D Touch" is a gimmick. Long before there was "3D Touch" other manufacturers achieve the same task using press and hold.

"Taptic Engines"? Oh, it vibrates! Amazing.

"Dual Cameras"? As we know, Apple invented dual camera. Apparently LG, Huawei, etc. didn't have phones with dual cameras before the iPhone 7 Plus was released. Oh, wait!

"dual speakers and water resistance" Samsung has released water resistant phones before, but it didn't have dual speakers. Having water resistant phone AND dual speakers. It's amazing!

As for the AirPods, it looks like cigarette butts sticking out of your ears.

The MBP is thinner, and has a better battery life than the thicker MBP, or the SurfaceBook, or etc. in tests, the MBP os shown to have almost double the battery life of the SurfaceBook and Microsoft lies the battery life, but pays TheVerge and etc. to hype them and bash Apple.

The whole Surface line is a failure, it's not what people asked, it's what geeks that hate tablets asked, but don't buy because it's expensive.

Microsoft is laughable, their Surface revenue is less than Apple's in their worst year, when they bought NeXT and before the introduction of the iMac (the same year of the cover of Wired), accounting for inflation, Apple was selling the double of what Microsoft is selling now.

The Surface line is down 2% y/y in revenue, despite the introduction of the $3000 starting price SurfaceStudio, while the Mac is up 7%.

The innovations hyped by Ms fans are useless, most people look at it and see an ugly laptop that can't be fold like the others and a crude hinge that look like will certainly will give them problems after some time.

Are you really measuring innovation by the number of units sold?

I guess HP must be the most innovative PC manufacturer since it sold the most PCs.

The most powerful Surface Book has 80 Wh battery.

Laptopmag battery test show that it lasts about 50 minutes less than the 13" MacBook Pro, but the Surface Book has a Geforce GTX 965M while the 13" MacBook Pro uses integrated GPU.

Also, having the thinnest laptop isn't the most important feature to everyone.

 

[Zirel]

"3D Touch" is a gimmick. Long before there was "3D Touch" other manufacturers achieve the same task using press and hold.

Yeah, like Apple!

"Taptic Engines"? Oh, it vibrates! Amazing.

Amazing is the that no android still has something equivalent, they all look straight from Nokia 3310.

"Dual Cameras"? As we know, Apple invented dual camera. Apparently LG, Huawei, etc. didn't have phones with dual cameras before the iPhone 7 Plus was released. Oh, wait!

No. Huawei has fake dual cameras, because the other one is just black and white (wtf), doesn't zoom in or help in simulating dof effects.

The lg zooms out but doesn't have depth of field effects.

"dual speakers and water resistance" Samsung has released water resistant phones before, but it didn't have dual speakers. Having water resistant phone AND dual speakers. It's amazing!

Amazing, listen to a Samsung with water resistance, sounds like crap. Pretty much every phone with water resistance sounds like crap.

As for the AirPods, it looks like cigarette butts sticking out of your ears.

And it is for girls only!

Are you really measuring innovation by the number of units sold?

The consensus is that Apple is the most innovative company around, and I posted the Surface sales performance because contrary to what "everyone" says, no, nobody cares, it's a failure, Microsoft can write all the BS PR pieces they want.

The most powerful Surface Book has 80 Wh battery

Who cares?

Laptopmag battery test show that it lasts about 50 minutes less than the 13" MacBook Pro, but the Surface Book has a Geforce GTX 965M while the 13" MacBook Pro uses integrated GPU.

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/macbook-pro-13-inch
9:50

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/microsoft-surface-book-with-performance-base
9:10

The problem is that Microsoft announces it as having 16 hours, its really far from that!

Btw, if you want graphics card, the MBP15" makes much more sense, it has about the same footprint of the SB, and due to the horrendous hinge, it's more transportable.

Also, having the thinnest laptop isn't the most important feature to everyone.

It is important, it's a laptop.

 

[maflynn]

"3D Touch" is a gimmick. Long before there was "3D Touch" other manufacturers achieve the same task using press and hold.

Yeah, its Apple's response to touchscreen PCs, but in a very unapple approach the user experience is such that it breaks focus. I mean I can easily hit a key-combination while looking at my work, or even using the mouse. With TB, I have to take my eyes off the screen and start meddling with the TB to get the results I want. I think there are better approaches and this decreases efficiency not increasing it

"Taptic Engines"? Oh, it vibrates! Amazing.

I run hot cold on this. For the iPhone, its a nice addition, for the apple watch somewhat positive as well. For the laptop touchpads, I don't like it at all. I think their older trackpad is better imo.

 

[Zirel]

Yeah, its Apple's response to touchscreen PCs, but in a very unapple approach the user experience is such that it breaks focus. I mean I can easily hit a key-combination while looking at my work, or even using the mouse. With TB, I have to take my eyes off the screen and start meddling with the TB to get the results I want. I think there are better approaches and this decreases efficiency not increasing it

No, you don't need to look at the TB. You'll learn where the buttons are.

Do people still look at the on-screen keyboard on the iPhone? No, they don't.

 

[C DM]

No, you don't need to look at the TB. You'll learn where the buttons are.

Do people still look at the on-screen keyboard on the iPhone? No, they don't.

People look at the on-screen keyboard on the iPhone. Certainly not all people, but people definitely do.

 

[Zirel]

People look at the on-screen keyboard on the iPhone. Certainly not all people, but people definitely do.

Sure, people like my "auntie".

 

[Zobrien]

Sure, people like my "auntie".

I can smell the fanboy on you. I know plenty of people who have iPhones but only have them because of iMessage and FaceTime. I love some apple products, but others aren't so innovative. Plenty of people will also tell you nothing "innovative" and "jaw dropping" has happened to iPhone since the 5s. No one is excited to upgrade their iPhone anymore, it all just feels the same. And you can't say "wow, it has this and this that only certain phones did years ago, but Apple took those ideas and now a phone years later has all of them!" Again, I love Apple, but finger print reader, dual speakers, water proof, etc were all made by android phones first. THAT is innovation, not Apple doing the same thing generations later but changing it up a bit.

 

[C DM]

Sure, people like my "auntie".

And all kinds of others as well. Ultimately that aspect of it doesn't really measure or tell anything one way or another anyway.

 

[Zirel]

I can smell the fanboy on you. I know plenty of people who have iPhones but only have them because of iMessage and FaceTime. I love some apple products, but others aren't so innovative. Plenty of people will also tell you nothing "innovative" and "jaw dropping" has happened to iPhone since the 5s. No one is excited to upgrade their iPhone anymore, it all just feels the same. And you can't say "wow, it has this and this that only certain phones did years ago, but Apple took those ideas and now a phone years later has all of them!" Again, I love Apple, but finger print reader, dual speakers, water proof, etc were all made by android phones first. THAT is innovation, not Apple doing the same thing generations later but changing it up a bit.

No, that's not innovation.

I could pick anywhere else, but since you focused on the fingerprint reader... There were those even before Android came out. So no, Apple didn't copy from Android.

Now, fingerprint readers like the iPhone 5s? No, you can't find that anywhere in the world, in any device type, for any price!

The difference? On the 5s, it always worked, and not like 20% of the time, it was useful because it was also fast and still impossible to steal the fingerprints from the device.

That changed something, now hundreds of millions of people use fingerprint authentication 100's of times a day.

You can't compare the two, it's like comparing a scanner where you put your analog photos to a digital camera! You get a digital picture, but saying it's the same?

I can smell the fanboy in you.

iPhones but only have them because of iMessage and FaceTime

Nice market study you have there...

Many people only have Androids, because Samsung spiff is very high and much higher than Apple's, and they were told lies by the salesmen like "iPhones send all your phone calls to the government", or "Samsung makes the iPhone for Apple", or YouTube liars like "the iPhone doesn't have widgets".

 

[Zobrien]

No, that's not innovation.

I could pick anywhere else, but since you focused on the fingerprint reader... There were those even before Android came out. So no, Apple didn't copy from Android.

Now, fingerprint readers like the iPhone 5s? No, you can't find that anywhere in the world, in any device type, for any price!

The difference? On the 5s, it always worked, and not like 20% of the time, it was useful because it was also fast and still impossible to steal the fingerprints from the device.

That changed something, now hundreds of millions of people use fingerprint authentication 100's of times a day.

You can't compare the two, it's like comparing a scanner where you put your analog photos to a digital camera! You get a digital picture, but saying it's the same?

I can smell the fanboy in you.



Nice market study you have there...

Many people only have Androids, because Samsung spiff is very high and much higher than Apple's, and they were told lies by the salesmen like "iPhones send all your phone calls to the government", or "Samsung makes the iPhone for Apple", or YouTube liars like "the iPhone doesn't have widgets".

Ok dude, I can take a product and make it a tiny bit better. Again, that ISNT innovation. And why would a carrier salesman lie? Use betters facts. Many people have androids because of the better price points, different features, ability to personalize, I can go on and on.. and back to the fingerprint reader. I still come across many times when my iPhone 6 scanner doesn't work... I'm not the only one this happens to. And it was impossible to steal the fingerprints when the 5s came out? Come on bro, any knowledgeable hacker can tell you that it was pretty possible
[doublepost=1486434211][/doublepost]

No, that's not innovation.

I could pick anywhere else, but since you focused on the fingerprint reader... There were those even before Android came out. So no, Apple didn't copy from Android.

Now, fingerprint readers like the iPhone 5s? No, you can't find that anywhere in the world, in any device type, for any price!

The difference? On the 5s, it always worked, and not like 20% of the time, it was useful because it was also fast and still impossible to steal the fingerprints from the device.

That changed something, now hundreds of millions of people use fingerprint authentication 100's of times a day.

You can't compare the two, it's like comparing a scanner where you put your analog photos to a digital camera! You get a digital picture, but saying it's the same?

I can smell the fanboy in you.



Nice market study you have there...

Many people only have Androids, because Samsung spiff is very high and much higher than Apple's, and they were told lies by the salesmen like "iPhones send all your phone calls to the government", or "Samsung makes the iPhone for Apple", or YouTube liars like "the iPhone doesn't have widgets".

Oh, and the iPhone 5s fingerprint scanner was in no way innovative. There were more phones that had them, but because of the android OS, people avoided them.

 

[C DM]

Ok dude, I can take a product and make it a tiny bit better. Again, that ISNT innovation. And why would a carrier salesman lie? Use betters facts. Many people have androids because of the better price points, different features, ability to personalize, I can go on and on.. and back to the fingerprint reader. I still come across many times when my iPhone 6 scanner doesn't work... I'm not the only one this happens to. And it was impossible to steal the fingerprints when the 5s came out? Come on bro, any knowledgeable hacker can tell you that it was pretty possible
[doublepost=1486434211][/doublepost]
Oh, and the iPhone 5s fingerprint scanner was in no way innovative. There were more phones that had them, but because of the android OS, people avoided them.

What is innovation? Seems like invention is being confused with or crossed with innovation in the context of what's being discussed.

 

[Zobrien]

What is innovation? Seems like inverntion is being confused with or crossed with innovation in the context of what's being discussed.

Ask him bro, he thinks taking something and making it a tiny bit better is revolutionary and "innovation"
[doublepost=1486441677][/doublepost]

Ask him bro, he thinks taking something and making it a tiny bit better is revolutionary and "innovation"

Just because it is apple lol

 

[maflynn]

Oh, and the iPhone 5s fingerprint scanner was in no way innovative. There were more phones that had them, but because of the android OS, people avoided them.

The same mentality occurred with multitasking. For years, Apple maintained that it wasn't needed in a phone, and then they introduced their version of multitasking or the notifications in iOS which seemed almost like a blatant copy of android

 

[Zirel]

Ok dude, I can take a product and make it a tiny bit better. Again, that ISNT innovation. And why would a carrier salesman lie? Use betters facts. Many people have androids because of the better price points, different features, ability to personalize, I can go on and on.. and back to the fingerprint reader. I still come across many times when my iPhone 6 scanner doesn't work... I'm not the only one this happens to. And it was impossible to steal the fingerprints when the 5s came out? Come on bro, any knowledgeable hacker can tell you that it was pretty possible
[doublepost=1486434211][/doublepost]
Oh, and the iPhone 5s fingerprint scanner was in no way innovative. There were more phones that had them, but because of the android OS, people avoided them.

Your desire to bash Apple gets in way of your credibility.

The iPhone 5s fingerprint reader never was cracked. Still isn't to this day!

The Samsung S5 was cracked in a question of mere weeks after it came out!

The fingerprint reader of the 5s is so "not innovative" that everybody quickly rushed to copy it!

That's what "innovative" is.

Meanwhile, Android keep coming with more of the same: exploding batteries, burn in screens, still have touch lag, can't handle a bluetooth connection with quality, can't have a battery that lasts realistically a full day!

Ask him bro, he thinks taking something and making it a tiny bit better is revolutionary and "innovation"

You just don't even say who is the innovator in the industry then!

Plain ridiculous!

Here's your innovation:

one gif is worth more than a million words.

Just because it is apple lol

Nice argument!

The same mentality occurred with multitasking. For years, Apple maintained that it wasn't needed in a phone, and then they introduced their version of multitasking or the notifications in iOS which seemed almost like a blatant copy of android

Copied exactly how!?

What specifically did Apple copy from Android?

Can you link me to a fact said by Apple executives for the part at bold?

 

[maflynn]

People look at the on-screen keyboard on the iPhone. Certainly not all people, but people definitely do.

Agreed, the biggest short comings with TB is the need to take your eyes off the screen to initiate an action. Couple that with the fact there's no tactile feedback of where the keys ares (just read about the complaints about people accidentally hitting the "new and improved" esc key. The problem is much of what you can do with the TB, can be done with shortcut keys or the mouse, both of which keeps your focus on the screen.