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Is the Macbook Air worth paying 4 times the price of this?
- Thread starter macbook123
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Yes Air is worth 4X more and it will probably perform 4X better and is 4X sexier!
Kan-O-Z
I think you have to face the truth that it won't perform 4x better on the average tasks. Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to pay extra for the Air as long as it's the best small laptop out there, but just don't think Apple is as competitive as other companies in this singular case. I in fact plan to buy one come Jan because my employer pays for it, but this doesn't mean I think it's fair pricing.
Others above spoke about the lack of dedicated good graphics card (I also mentioned this in my original post) in the Eee. You may want to check out this article:
http://gizmodo.com/5105392/nvidia-bringing-geforce-9400m-to-atom-netbooks-to-make-them-suck-less
While just a rumor at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if this became true in a month or so and those netbooks would still only cost a fourth of the Air. Would you?
My guess is that even if these netbooks had a Dual Core processor, and would Run Mac OSX smoothly, people here would still say that the price increase of the Air is justified.
Everybody raves about the Air as being a "different dimension" of a laptop, but this is complete BS. It's simply *better* in a number of ways than the Eee (which is why I plan to get the Air), but it's not 4 times better in any one of them. That was the whole point of my original post.
A lot of the hardware is the same so saying that they run the drivers for the air is a bit misleading
Heck the Dell/Broadcom wifi cards show up as an Airport card without a hitch
As for the netbook - they do their job for their price pretty damn fine. Yes you do spend time getting the Hackintosh to work, but if it works and you get OS X on it, what's there to complain about? The small footprint is damn nice to have too, and battery life is impressive with the 6cell models
But ultimately its up to you on what you want to do - personally, the Atom on my Acer Aspire One does everything I want with it. If i'm going to use processor intensive tasks, i'm going to be using a desktop or Pro anyways!
Heck the Dell/Broadcom wifi cards show up as an Airport card without a hitch
As for the netbook - they do their job for their price pretty damn fine. Yes you do spend time getting the Hackintosh to work, but if it works and you get OS X on it, what's there to complain about? The small footprint is damn nice to have too, and battery life is impressive with the 6cell models
But ultimately its up to you on what you want to do - personally, the Atom on my Acer Aspire One does everything I want with it. If i'm going to use processor intensive tasks, i'm going to be using a desktop or Pro anyways!
Well I guess what you are referring to is not specifically an Air v. Netbook argument but rather an Apple v. PC argument....which we all know about. Apple is a premium brand and we will argue that you get what you pay for.
Apple OS X
Apple Software (iLife - no PC equivalent)
Apple Hardware
- Cutting edge design that is usually the thinnest, sleekest, and sexiest on the market
- Components are usually the better...for example LED screen, backlit keyboard, multitouch trackpad, SSD drives, best integrated video, fastest bus, best RAM 1066 DDR3
- Materials...Apple barely uses plastic at this point, everything is high grade aluminum and glass
Apple Innovation - like multitouch interface and using the latest cutting edge technologies
Apple Service - best on the market
This is what you pay for with Apple. Of course many of these things you may not care for. Some people do and are willing to pay a little extra for this stuff.
Sure you can get a $500 netbook and hack it...but it's not quite the same. I for one don't have a weekend to waste in learning how to hack something and then additional time to make sure it works right all the time, esp after a new software update. What happens when something doesn't work with the hardware or software....there is no one that can really help you out...no Apple service you can take your computer to, etc. A long time ago I used to be into building and maintianing my own PCs. These days I would pay money for something that just works and has somewhere I can take it to if something comes up. I can't put a price on a stress free life
Finally a netbook is really just good for email and light web browsing. The MBA on the otherhand has a big enough screen and enough power to make it a real laptop. For instance I am into photography and own an DSLR. I would love to take an MBA with me to run Photoshop or Aperture. I wouldn't try doing that on a little netbook...not only would it have a hard time running these programs and be slow as a snail, the tiny and low quality screen just wouldn't work for me.
Kan-O-Z
Thanks. So let me try to attach number to yours, mine, and everybody else's statements. It was always my impression that I'm paying extra for a Mac, on the order of 50%. So, while I can get a Dell with comparable specs to a Macbook, I would pay $1000 for the latter and ~$666 for the former.
Also, we agree that the Air is superior to the Eee, and really targets a different group. I'd say combining the larger screen, dual core, graphics card, aluminum body, etc (add all things people have mentioned above) it could be up to a factor 2 more expensive than the Eee, taking into account that the Air is not better in all the specs. That makes $1000. Furthermore add the 50% Apple Tax and you're at $1500. That's reasonably close to the price of the real Air, though still a bit short.
I guess in a way the question I had boils down to the question of why the Air is so much more expensive than the regular Macbook (which always seemed reasonably priced to me) and I guess this has been amply discussed elsewhere.
Anyway, thanks for taking part in the brain storming.
Also, we agree that the Air is superior to the Eee, and really targets a different group. I'd say combining the larger screen, dual core, graphics card, aluminum body, etc (add all things people have mentioned above) it could be up to a factor 2 more expensive than the Eee, taking into account that the Air is not better in all the specs. That makes $1000. Furthermore add the 50% Apple Tax and you're at $1500. That's reasonably close to the price of the real Air, though still a bit short.
I guess in a way the question I had boils down to the question of why the Air is so much more expensive than the regular Macbook (which always seemed reasonably priced to me) and I guess this has been amply discussed elsewhere.
Anyway, thanks for taking part in the brain storming.
Ultra-portable laptops always cost more than standard laptops. Check out your favorite brand, Dell, HP, Sony. You will find their mainstream laptop to be cheaper(like Macbook) and the ultraportable to be a good bit more(like Macbook Air). When you build an ultra-portable, almost everything is customized. Think about how they had to solder the actual memory chips right into the motherboard to save space. Think about the customized CPU which I'm sure Intel charges a lot more for. Think about that non-standard 8mm 1.8" drive. On top of that, a lot of design work is needed to make things fit and work reliably. All this stuff adds up!
I don't consider netbooks in the same league. For one thing, they aren't even that thin so design and custom parts is not so much an issue. Secondly they use the absolute cheapest parts on the planet. They are simply not meant to do much with except surf the web. Anything more, you're going to hate using it.
Just for reference, Sony's TT 11.1" is $2094, and Z 13.1" is $1649.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=16154
Is this considered Sony Tax...or is Apple Tax a myth?
Kan-O-Z
Here is a 'cheap' Dell:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop_latitude_e4300?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&~oid=us~en~4~laptop_latitude_e4300_anav1~~
$1549
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop_latitude_e4300?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&~oid=us~en~4~laptop_latitude_e4300_anav2~~
$1723
These don't even look as slim or half as nice as the Air. I'm starting to think that Apple Tax is a myth
Kan-O-Z
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop_latitude_e4300?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&~oid=us~en~4~laptop_latitude_e4300_anav1~~
$1549
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop_latitude_e4300?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&~oid=us~en~4~laptop_latitude_e4300_anav2~~
$1723
These don't even look as slim or half as nice as the Air. I'm starting to think that Apple Tax is a myth
Kan-O-Z
Here is a 'cheap' Dell:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop_latitude_e4300?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&~oid=us~en~4~laptop_latitude_e4300_anav1~~
$1549
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop_latitude_e4300?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&~oid=us~en~4~laptop_latitude_e4300_anav2~~
$1723
These don't even look as slim or half as nice as the Air. I'm starting to think that Apple Tax is a myth
Kan-O-Z
Wow! Those are expensive! Hmm...
This goes to show that there is a clear difference between an ultra-portble notebook and a netbook. The former offers full size like notebook performance, screen and features in an ultraportable package often requiring the most expensive parts to accomplish this. The latter offers minimal performance which is just enough to surf the web and check email. Although netbooks are small, they are not very thin. They often use the cheapest parts and processors that are no where near the capability of an ultraportable notebook.
The problem with this whole comparison and thread is that the wrong types of machines were being compared. The Macbook Air should be compared with Sony TT($2094), Sony Z($1649), Dell Lattitude E4300($1723), Toshiba R600($2099). In this comparison, the Macbook Air does quite well.
There is no such thing as Apple Tax. Apple has proven to be a very good value in all of it's products but you have to know what to compare it against. For example the iMac is a very well valued computer. Are there cheap dell towers that can beat it's price...sure. But the true comparison is the Dell XPS One. iMac does well against that.
Kan-O-Z
The problem with this whole comparison and thread is that the wrong types of machines were being compared. The Macbook Air should be compared with Sony TT($2094), Sony Z($1649), Dell Lattitude E4300($1723), Toshiba R600($2099). In this comparison, the Macbook Air does quite well.
There is no such thing as Apple Tax. Apple has proven to be a very good value in all of it's products but you have to know what to compare it against. For example the iMac is a very well valued computer. Are there cheap dell towers that can beat it's price...sure. But the true comparison is the Dell XPS One. iMac does well against that.
Kan-O-Z
If the MBA had a gigabit ethernet port and optical drive, it could be compared against those notebooks.
As is the MBA is just an expensive high-end netbook and the OP's comparison is legit.
So let me get this straight...if the MBA had a built in optical drive (which would probably cost $50 for a manufacturer to put in)...then it's ok for the MBA to cost $1700 and be comparable to the others. But since it doesn't it should cost $400 so that it can be compared to a $400 netbook?
Do you know how much space an optical drive occupies? Personally I don't use my optical drive except to install programs once a year. In those instances I can 'borrow' a drive from other mac or pc. I download movies from iTunes. DVDs are old school, they scratch up, they skip and most importantly they use up precious battery life for a small notebook like this. If you must have a DVD, rip it onto the harddrive. If I want an ultraportable to be good at being ultra-portable, get rid of stuff that is not often needed and give me ultra-thin and light instead! To those that understand, this is what the Air is.
By the way what do you think about HP Envy which is very similar to the Air....is it an overpriced netbook?
HP Voodoo Envy, no optical drive, $2099
Kan-O-Z
I said "high end netbook". The MBA has a bigger screen and a faster CPU. Whether this capability is worth an additional $1000 is up to the requirements of the user.
If you had actually taken a close look at the Lenovo X300 or the Toshiba R600 (which weighs 800 grams) you wouldn't be asking questions about optical drive size, you would hopefully realize how pathetic the MBA is.
At least the Envy has ethernet, but without optical drive, it's another stupid expensive machine.
It's not just the weight but also the size. If you look at the Lenovo or Toshiba, it's not as thin as the Air. You just can't beat how thin the Air is and still have an optical drive! For some people, yes this matters....and for some people they would take this tradeoff for having one of the thinnest notebooks in the world!
By the way the ethernet dongle is $29 so you can hook the Air up to a standard ethernet. Not a big deal as once again I can't remember the last time I actually physically connected an ethernet wire to my Macbook Pro. Homes, coffee shops, airports, and hotels all have wifi. It's very rare these days to have to connect a wire to your laptop. If you really have to, Apple sells a $29 Ethernet adapter for the MBA.
Again I stand by my point. Get rid of what is barely ever used in place of ultimate portability.
I gave the example of the Envy because so many people here think that the Air is expensive because it's an Apple and it's overpriced. Well it doesn't look like HP(a company known to be able to cheap computers) was able to make their version any cheaper!
So to counter your point, no the Air is not an overpriced high end netbook. It's a real computer, not a toy like most netbooks. It's actually worth what its sold for.
Kan-O-Z
What he said. The C2D 1.86ghz will absolutly annihilate the atom in terms of performance.
The Toshiba is .7 to 1.0 inches thick. Not a big difference I would say. Plus why does thickness matter but footprint doesn't? is one dimension more important than the others?
Why is it that the Toshiba is 2.4 lbs but the Air is 3.0? Weight matters too you know.
What about software? if you don't have a another computer and you don't have an external drive, you can't install software on the Air. I mean I barely use my optical drive too, but many people are still going to need it for installing software.
Also I think the Air is pretty lacking in features. Yeah I know, it's thin, but some people want 3G built in, some people need an optical drive, etc. For me, I want a higher resolution screen. The Lenovo X200s has a 1440x900 screen (same as the X300). That to me would be much more useful. Although I guess I love high res screens more than most people (probably has to do with having good eyes
)Who cares about thinness? The Toshiba is lighter.
You can't have gigabit ethernet with that dongle, which is a necessity for network backups. That's the whole point.
The Air is a fashion object, not a practical computer.