MP 7,1 Is the new 7,1 Mac Pro a failure on arrival

[ZombiePhysicist]

The 7,1 cheese grater will arrive with a maximum of 28 cores and PCIe 3.0 in a market selling 64core (and even intel has 56core chips now) PCIe 4.0 machines.

It's been over 5 months since the announcement and still nothing. By the time the machine ships we may see PCIe 5.0 mother boards. In essence, IMO, you will be paying way more for a machine with far less CPU and system bandwidth than what has already been shipping for a while.

So is the Mac Pro a failure on arrival? A case of too little too late? Or do you think it's the right Mac for our time?

Cast your vote, share your thoughts!

 

[Speedstar]

no Nvidia no discussion...
either FinalCut/Flame
or CUDA GPU rendering, Autodesk AVID anything ....

OpenCL Metal versus OpenGL4, CUDA, Vulcan

good night apple except final cut, adobe Photoshop/Illustrator/inDesign WEB users

You do not need Final Cut HELL EXPENSIVE only machine when working in Video Post

Catalina Metal is an Island ... without Nvidia soon Atlantis ...

 

[th0masp]

It's not the Mac we need but apparently the one Apple thinks we deserve.

 

[archimacpro]

Having been with Apple since Apple iie with the Alpha Syntauri/mountain soundcards, it's getting harder to argue for. My iphone X face id stopped working - Apple promised to replace, then renagued, then said water damage ( I KNOW it's not). Apple is not what it was. Court date set for 4th Dec. How hard can it be to have a larger Mini pro, w replacable graphics, memory, SSD? I'll probably end up with the new Mac pro as I need 2 x 4k x42" screens for CAD. But the delay is simply inexcusable.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

c) OP wants confirmation bias on their own views

 

[LorenK]

Probably, but Apple takes so long to upgrade its machines that one can fairly question their decision and design process. While I understand the goal of "it just works", there are just too many cracks in that ethos that just throwing something at the wall once in awhile might actually be better, you get a chance to see what the problems are in a real world environment, which gives you a better idea of how people really use their machines than you do in a hothouse environment or small focus groups.

The Mac Pro timeline is instructive in how you can overthink something. While Apple has been fiddling about, it seems technology is continuing to move forward at a fast pace rendering the 7,1 a bit dated already. No, that's not saying that Windows machines that are making use of newer technology won't face problems, but software can catch up to the hardware, while having hardware that is behind the software seems like asking for bottlenecks.

Does it make sense for Apple to try to reinvent the wheel twice and the time that takes when technology is moving forward at a breakneck speed? Is advanced cooling that important that it requires two case redesigns that seem almost gratuitous when it leaves the buyers with more limited choices at considerably higher prices versus relatively comparative product? Yes, the Apple ecosystem has a say in this, but I must be missing something, because when you're making system choices that are continually leaving out a portion of your desired user base because you've chosen not to support certain functionality, what does that say about your design choices? While the iPhone and the iPad are certainly beautiful devices, their functionality is limited compared to a desktop. So, I don't get the choices made for the 7,1.

 

[ActionableMango]

The $6000 base price ensures that I am out. I assume the same is true for most enthusiasts here.

On the other hand, I've seen many times where pros will post here that price of the computer is relatively unimportant as it is paid back by the value of the job very quickly.

 

[goMac]

I’m kind of sick of all the threads on Apple being wrong whatever they’re doing.

Apple did what most people wanted. They built a tower, with slots, that people said they would pay a premium for.

Now we have some threads saying it’s too much computer and they want something scaled back. We have threads like this one saying it’s actually too slow and confined and it needs more. Then they’re shipping it too fast and not waiting for the next standards. Or they’re shipping it too slow and people want it yesterday.

Apple’s trying to balance everything everyone wants to ship a good computer. And they did a pretty good job of that this year. But they’re also not able to build everyone their own personal dream Mac Pro that people have in their heads.

Everyone just needs to calm down. Everything is lining up for shipping soon. Most PC vendors haven’t shipped the same Xeons yet. If you don’t like it you don’t have to buy one. The cMP never came with Intel’s absolute highest core counts either.

We’re six months into the new Mac Pro. It’s not going to change what it is.

 

[gtg465x]

I really just want an upgradeable computer that runs macOS that I can both work and game on, and that doesn't cost a fortune. Pretty simple, but Apple just can't seem to do it.

Hackintosh builds seem like a pain in the butt in terms of compatibility and getting all iCloud services working, the Mac Pro is too expensive, and the iMac and Mac Mini are at best mediocre for gaming and not very upgradeable.

I don't mind dropping some serious cash for an Apple computer, but $6000 is just ridiculous. My compromise this time around was buying an iMac 5K... total price including tax came to around $3500 for i9 9900k, 40 GB RAM, Vega 48, and 1 TB SSD. But I installed Windows 10 Pro for gaming and may consider trying to migrate my work tasks over to Windows at some point so that the next time I need to upgrade, I can just build a Windows PC and drop macOS. I mean, I do like macOS better, and would miss iMessage, HomeKit, and iCloud Photos, but Windows 10 is a decent enough OS, and I could just sit my iPad on my desk and use a bluetooth keyboard and mouse that have buttons to switch connections on the fly if I want to reply to iMessages or do other Apple ecosystem stuff.

 

[davidec]

I’m kind of sick of all the threads on Apple being wrong whatever they’re doing.

Apple did what most people wanted. They built a tower, with slots, that people said they would pay a premium for.

Now we have some threads saying it’s too much computer and they want something scaled back. We have threads like this one saying it’s actually too slow and confined and it needs more. Then they’re shipping it too fast and not waiting for the next standards. Or they’re shipping it too slow and people want it yesterday.

Apple’s trying to balance everything everyone wants to ship a good computer. And they did a pretty good job of that this year. But they’re also not able to build everyone their own personal dream Mac Pro that people have in their heads.

Everyone just needs to calm down. Everything is lining up for shipping soon. Most PC vendors haven’t shipped the same Xeons yet. If you don’t like it you don’t have to buy one. The cMP never came with Intel’s absolute highest core counts either.

We’re six months into the new Mac Pro. It’s not going to change what it is.

Goodness me what does it require to get some common sense around here? And to add to this sentiment I am a music professional. I don't really care if it has PCI4 or 5 or whether the Xeons are a gen behind, if it runs Logic, allows me to open heaps of plugs, big libraries and complete big projects without spinny ball, then I am in love. An added bonus is being able to customise it and update it to give it some legs. Apple has done exactly what I want other than release it, and even then, desperate as I am, I will go into my studio and continue to write music on my existing setups until it does come out. With the occasional MR reload in hope!

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Yea, the world for the Mac Pro is not just limited to Logic users.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

I don't understand why the "I'm leaving Apple, they're so terrible" crowd is so persistent in sticking around an Apple forum to talk about Apple stuff. When I decide I'm moving to something different I just pick up and move, I don't stick around and try to tell everyone else how bad their product of choice is. Yet month after month we have the same faces saying the same things over and over again: "AMD processors have more cores and are cheap", "I can't live without my CUDA fix", "I can't afford it but I can cobble together my own system for 1/3 the price", "[Windows|Desktop Linux] has come so far, you don't realize how superior it is today". OK, great. Windows and Linux forums are that way (or piracy forums for those of you who feel hackintoshes are A-OK), enjoy your new system

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I don’t understand why the “I’ll defend Apple no matter what crowd” comes to a thread where there may be negative opinions about Apple and then they complain about the opinions. You’re free to not participate.

 

[defjam]

Depends on how you look at it. If you look at it from the point of view of being the latest technology there are those who will find fault with it. If you look at it from the point of view as being better than what Apple is currently offering then it's a win.

For Mac users, if you ignore price, it's a win.

 

[majus]

... If you look at it from the point of view as being better than what Apple is currently offering then it's a win.

For Mac users, if you ignore price, it's a win.

Not to mention that it will be at least eight years newer technology than my early 2009 has. That's a huge win for me.

I'm not out to compete in any speed wars but I don't intend to be left totally behind either.

 

[goMac]

I don't understand why the "I'm leaving Apple, they're so terrible" crowd is so persistent in sticking around an Apple forum to talk about Apple stuff. When I decide I'm moving to something different I just pick up and move, I don't stick around and try to tell everyone else how bad their product of choice is. Yet month after month we have the same faces saying the same things over and over again: "AMD processors have more cores and are cheap", "I can't live without my CUDA fix", "I can't afford it but I can cobble together my own system for 1/3 the price", "[Windows|Desktop Linux] has come so far, you don't realize how superior it is today". OK, great. Windows and Linux forums are that way (or piracy forums for those of you who feel hackintoshes are A-OK), enjoy your new system

The Mac Pro is a workstation, and I think a lot of conversation is around people not using it as a workstation.

On one side you have threads like this. The 56 core Xeon is a server processor. It's not meant for workstations, it's meant for high end servers. It's not even the same socket or the same line as Apple is using. It's meant for $20k computers. And yet it's getting looped into workstation discussions when it's not at all a workstation CPU. Apple's never, ever ever shipped a Mac Pro with data center CPUs. They've always shipped mid-tier Xeons.

Then on the other side you have the xMac crowd. And I'm not saying the need for an xMac isn't real, or there isn't a use case here. But when you have threads about people needing to rearrange their businesses because Apple isn't shipping a real workstation... people coming in and talking about how they don't want to buy a Mac Mini with an eGPU because it doesn't look nice on their desk is a whole different thing.

Apple built what was asked of them. People wanted a workstation they could use for their creative businesses. They said they were willing to pay a premium if it ran macOS. It needed to run high end GPUs, and several of them, with standard PCIe slots. And it needed workstation Xeon CPUs. And people needed these to get their work done.

The Mac Pro can't be all things to all people. It can't be an i9 gaming computer. And it can't be a multi-$10k data center grade server. It definitely cannot be both those things at the same time.

 

[defjam]

The Mac Pro can't be all things to all people. It can't be an i9 gaming computer. And it can't be a multi-$10k data center grade server. It definitely cannot be both those things at the same time.

It could be more to more people if Apple would let it be. HP has their Z-series workstations which fill the need from the entry level to high end. While I don't feel Apple has to offer as many versions of the Mac Pro they certainly could do a lower cost offering (i.e. the xMac).

I've seen a lot of people say that the Mac Pro makes up a minuscule amount of their sales. While I agree with that I say it's more the result of Apple making it that way instead of offering something more people want (i.e. the xMac). Why Apple has decided to offer such a niche product and not something along the lines of an xMac is puzzling.

 

[ssgbryan]

c) OP wants confirmation bias on their own views

As do you with your poll.

 

[goMac]

It could be more to more people if Apple would let it be. HP has their Z-series workstations which fill the need from the entry level to high end. While I don't feel Apple has to offer as many versions of the Mac Pro they certainly could do a lower cost offering (i.e. the xMac).

Except the entry level that HP has is not what people are asking for. People are asking for i9s. HP's entry level Xeon socketed boxes are less than 2 ghz Xeons. Paying for 10 year old performance at the price of an i9 isn't going to make anyone here happy. It's just another thing people are tossing out there, like the 56 core Xeon, that doesn't really make any sense in context.

I'm not saying that an i9 Mac isn't a real need. But that's a different Mac. Much like how HP sells their i9 as a different PC model. Even on the Z4, that's a completely different submodel when you order that option. It's like the difference between an iMac and an iMac Pro.

And again, people who want that have options. They could buy an iMac. They could buy a Mac Mini. That's very different than the crowd who's up a creek if there isn't a real workstation being built by Apple. The i9 people are just inconvenienced. The workstation crowd were the ones who were really screwed.

 

[OkiRun]

This argument plays out in the real world of business every day. In my office there is a PC working group - I just purchased an i9 PC configuration from JUNS and it wasn't cheap! This groups wants PCs because they like PCs. That's the only reason - personal preference. I have a Mac working group - and they only want Macs. It's a personal preference. As their leader - I have to make both groups happy. It's worth the money to me. So, the Mac group wants... wait for it... a Mac Pro! They are going to get it. But NOT tricked out! Mid-tier with room to expand when they earn the company enough money to make the initial investment worthwhile. Same goes for the Windows group. Make the company money and you can expand computers all you want. In the past I never took an interest in computers the groups use and wanted. However, costs for both PCs and Macs is increasing and therefore I am visiting sites to learn as much as I need to better discuss needs vs wants with them.

 

[defjam]

Except the entry level that HP has is not what people are asking for. People are asking for i9s. HP's entry level Xeon socketed boxes are less than 2 ghz Xeons. Paying for 10 year old performance at the price of an i9 isn't going to make anyone here happy. It's just another thing people are tossing out there, like the 56 core Xeon, that doesn't really make any sense in context.

I'm not saying that an i9 Mac isn't a real need. But that's a different Mac. Much like how HP sells their i9 as a different PC model. Even on the Z4, that's a completely different submodel when you order that option. It's like the difference between an iMac and an iMac Pro.

And again, people who want that have options. They could buy an iMac. They could buy a Mac Mini. That's very different than the crowd who's up a creek if there isn't a real workstation being built by Apple. The i9 people are just inconvenienced. The workstation crowd were the ones who were really screwed.

A lot of Mac users want a less capable (than the 7,1 Mac Pro) which is a headless Mac which has internal expandability / configurability. This configuration even has a name: xMac. I've seen it requested for at least a decade.

At least with the cMP a user who didn't need its full potential could at least justify it because they felt the cost, even though more than they would prefer to pay, was at least tolerable. Those users don't appear to feel the same about the 7,1 Mac Pro.

What is puzzling to me is why so many people on this forum feel that desiring an xMac is such a bad thing.

 

[Korican100]

iMac Pro was unveiled at summer wwdc in 2017, and was released that December. So why is this different

 

[OkiRun]

iMac Pro was unveiled at summer wwdc in 2017, and was released that December. So why is this different

November/December doesn't matter to some. I will purchase one for the office in early January 2020. Its a fiscal thing.

 

[gugy]

Man, people love to whine here. I guess it's all over the place.
I want the MP so badly, yes it is out of my price range at this point so hopefully I can make more money on my job to justify the upgrade.
I am just excited that Apple still cares enough to create a Pro machine with expansion.

 

[Korican100]

This argument plays out in the real world of business every day. In my office there is a PC working group - I just purchased an i9 PC configuration from JUNS and it wasn't cheap! This groups wants PCs because they like PCs. That's the only reason - personal preference. I have a Mac working group - and they only want Macs. It's a personal preference. As their leader - I have to make both groups happy. It's worth the money to me. So, the Mac group wants... wait for it... a Mac Pro! They are going to get it. But NOT tricked out! Mid-tier with room to expand when they earn the company enough money to make the initial investment worthwhile. Same goes for the Windows group. Make the company money and you can expand computers all you want. In the past I never took an interest in computers the groups use and wanted. However, costs for both PCs and Macs is increasing and therefore I am visiting sites to learn as much as I need to better discuss needs vs wants with them.

you seem like a great leader dude. doing a lot of ground work