The Z6 is available with either Xeon, OR i9 CPUs. It's a configuration option.
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MP 7,1 Is the new 7,1 Mac Pro a failure on arrival
- Thread starter ZombiePhysicist
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The Z6 is available with either Xeon, OR i9 CPUs. It's a configuration option.
It is. But it's not the same machine. They're both Z6 branded but the internals aren't the same.
The Xeon and the i9 aren't the same socket, have different PCIe lane counts, don't take the same RAM. You can't just put both in the same box. HP's configurator is misleading because it will gladly let you mix Xeon and i9 compatible parts, even if they aren't compatible (it'll throw warnings about a bad config.)
So even if you wanted something branded as a Mac Pro that's an i9, wouldn't be the same box. It's just branding.
What people are asking for is for Apple to build a second tower, like HP does. That's fine, but that's a totally different thing than a workstation. Just because Apple didn't build a consumer CPU tower doesn't mean the Mac Pro is a bad workstation.
An i9 Mac Pro would also be a significant departure from what Apple has done before. They've only done Xeon Mac Pro so far. And it's a completely different ask than a high end workstation. I'm not saying Apple shouldn't do one. I'm just saying it has nothing to do with if the Mac Pro is a bad workstation.
For a workstation level machine, the Mac Pro is not too expensive, it's not too little, and it's not too late. By PC standards.
(We'll see how the BTO options go. If any are way out of line, price would be worth revisiting.)
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The arguments of PC vs Mac are just the beginning. The fights over FCPX vs PP/After Effects are off the charts. I have to keep the groups separated. They don't even go out to lunch together. So when I am online and see threads like this - it's like a virtual environment of my office to me! I laugh out loud. And if really want to see the napalm explode, tell a PC worker to use a Mac because all the PCs are in use or as one of the Mac group to switch to a PC as all the Macs are in use. The howls! You would think I asked them to change their religion!
Whether it's a failure for me personally depends on two things - the Metal ports of Octane and Redshift GPU renderers and their performance, and the single core speed for applications like Photoshop. If both of those aspects are solid then this machine will be a massive win for me. I will buy the mid-range model, Pro Display XDR and upgrade at leisure for my work as a self employed digital artist.
That's just the way self-absorbed people are.. they don't care about anyone or anything except themselves and their own voice. They think Apple hurt them and they want the whole world to know how dissatisfied they are. So they stick around Apple forums hoping to gain a following of like-minded people never realizing that that is the most damaging thing they can do to themselves. Put them on ignore, you'll thank yourself laterI don't understand why the "I'm leaving Apple, they're so terrible" crowd is so persistent in sticking around an Apple forum to talk about Apple stuff. When I decide I'm moving to something different I just pick up and move, I don't stick around and try to tell everyone else how bad their product of choice is. Yet month after month we have the same faces saying the same things over and over again: "AMD processors have more cores and are cheap", "I can't live without my CUDA fix", "I can't afford it but I can cobble together my own system for 1/3 the price", "[Windows|Desktop Linux] has come so far, you don't realize how superior it is today". OK, great. Windows and Linux forums are that way (or piracy forums for those of you who feel hackintoshes are A-OK), enjoy your new system
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My biggest gripe is the time it's taken to release the thing. It felt cutting edge in June, now… not so much. I doubt I'll get one before 2020, now which is just ridiculous. Of course I would love to have Nvidia cards, but that boat has sailed. We move on, find alternatives, hope developers like Metal and write code for it. I agree it's overpriced but that's Tim Cook's doing: if it didn't have a premium price and a decent margin, he might never have greenlit the machine at all. I'm still going to buy one, as I've waited so long. It won't be as powerful as a similarly priced PC, but that's fine; the planet won't suddenly spin off its axis into the sun.
And I'm with vel0city on this: if Octane or Redshift run well on those big, fat AMD cards, then I'm a happy bunny.
And I'm with vel0city on this: if Octane or Redshift run well on those big, fat AMD cards, then I'm a happy bunny.
Are the internals different? Or is the motherboard the same with the CPU / memory on a riser card? I really don't know as I've never seen a Z6 but I know the Z640 utilizes a riser card for the second processor and memory so I could see something similar being used on the Z6.
What people are asking for is a lower cost (than the 7,1 Mac Pro) which is headless and offers internal expandability / configurability. I don't feel most people would care if they called it something other than a Mac Pro. I'd even suggest they call it the "xMac".
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Well, isn't that what you're doing
Yep I'm in the same boat. Still planning to buy a mid-range Mac Pro + XDR, to use with After Effects and Cinema4D + Redshift + Octane.
@vel0city & @skippermonkey are you going to wait until Redshift or Octane are out before buying it, or are you hoping that the AMD metal ports will be ok? I'm think of ordering the Mac Pro as soon as its out but really this is mega stupid of me without seeing redshift or octane benchmarks.
Indeed. This is one of the main reasons for the whole Hackintosh scene.
@shuto I'm definitely waiting for the Redshift and Octane ports to be production-ready before diving in. I can keep my 5,1 with GTX1080ti ticking over while things settle down. But even if they turn out to be inferior to their CUDA counterparts I'll probably consider going all-in on a CPU renderer like Corona, Cycles4D or Arnold. So then it will be a decision about buying CPU cores or GPUs.
Redshift's devs have been really quiet since the Maxon acquisition (version 3 still in beta and Redshift realtime still nowhere to be seen) so I'm hoping that this is a sign they're working on tight C4D integration and Metal support. Otoy said that Mac Pro purchasers will qualify for a free version of Octane so something is definitely looking positive there.
Whatever happens we'll be able to render cool stuff on the Mac.
Redshift's devs have been really quiet since the Maxon acquisition (version 3 still in beta and Redshift realtime still nowhere to be seen) so I'm hoping that this is a sign they're working on tight C4D integration and Metal support. Otoy said that Mac Pro purchasers will qualify for a free version of Octane so something is definitely looking positive there.
Whatever happens we'll be able to render cool stuff on the Mac.
Pirates very commonly find ways to rationalize their theft.
IMO calling them pirates is an inaccurate description for what they're doing. As someone who has worked for a software company I am by no means attempting to excuse their behavior but I do not think what they're doing is piracy. I feel if Apple doesn't offer what you want you should look elsewhere. But I think it's not quite accurate to say they're rationalizing their theft because many are not doing it to pirate macOS but rather obtain a system which Apple refuses to offer.
From Apple's macOS license (bold by me):
"...you are granted a limited, non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer at any one time."
So if I put an Apple sticker on it is it legal to run macOS on it?
its a violation of their EULA not to install mac OS on non-apple hardware. In that sense, it seems when you buy a mac, you are not only purchasing the hardware, you are purchasing the entry into the software.
My thoughts are: For one to DL their software for the intent to install on non-apple hardware, you are essentially getting the software value, without purchasing their hardware. I would consider that pirating, no?
In its simplest form, no, because:So if I put an Apple sticker on it is it legal to run macOS on it?
1. Apple only brands equipment manufactured by them or their subs, and
2. Apple didn't put the logo on your equipment.
It was meant to be humorous which I thought was conveyed with my use of the
Which you did and I understood. I just wanted to make it clear for some.It was meant to be humorous which I thought was conveyed with my use of the
With all due respect this is rationalization. It is Apple's intellectual property and their right to choose to license in any way they see fit with whatever set of hardware restrictions they desire. Not liking the options Apple provides does not exclude one from violating the laws governing IP. Thus, pirate.
Which is why I wrote:
"As someone who has worked for a software company I am by no means attempting to excuse their behavior..."
However I don't consider this to be your typical pirate type of circumstance. Typically pirates don't pay for software because of whatever philosophical reason they use in an attempt to avoid paying for it. That's not the case here...I think many people, at least on this forum, who are building Hackintosh systems aren't doing so to avoid paying for the OS but rather because Apple isn't providing them a system which fits their needs. This is a much different mindset than the typical pirate. Does it make it right? Certainly not. I'm just pointing out the distinction.
The lack of the xMac does not make the Mac Pro a failure.
It's a real need some customers have. But it's irrelevant to discussions about a Mac Pro workstation. And xMac customers have alternatives, whereas workstation customers do not.
I don't recall having every stated, or even implied, as much.
I disagree. The fact you accept the Mac Pro as being only a single version as currently defined by Apple does not exclude discussions from others that it is a failure for their needs.
If you disagree with this then I suggest you're in the wrong thread as this thread was started for just that reason.