Is there a point in still using Time Machine?

[sgtaylor5]

I had a client a while back that had a 2007 iMac. The power supply died and of course you can hardly get those. However she had a Time Machine hard drive plugged into her desktop. She didn't even have to think about it.

I had a 2012 Mac mini to sell her; I plugged her Time Machine into it and restored everything and lost nothing.

 

[judyg951]

My 2015 iMac died last week. I have a new Mac mini Pro coming next week and I'll just use my Time Machine to get all my apps and files when I set up the new machine. So yes I still think there is a need for Time Machine as you never know when your computer may decide it's time to quit on you.
My Mini Pro arrived on Friday. I plugged it in and set it to restore my iMac files. it took overnight, but I was able to use the last Time Machine backup from my broken iMac and all of my files are now on the Mini. I'm very glad I used Time Machine as my 2015 iMac had a fusion drive and from what I read it's not easy to recover the files from it.

 

[Che Castro]

Bought a cheap 1tb SSD $40 on Amazon
After that is set it and forget about it
Doesn’t hurt to use it

 

[throAU]

I still use Time Machine nearly every day as part of my data retention strategy.

I have all my important stuff either on my NAS or in iCloud; Time Machine (external disk) is my cold storage backup in case my account gets owned or I need to restore rapidly to a new MacBook due to hardware failure or theft. OR if my house burns down with all my devices in it (TM Backup stays off-site, at work).

TM may not be perfect but it's an easy to use no-brainer for the above scenarios. I wouldn't trust it as your ONLY source of backup but if things do go sideways its easy to restore from if you have one or more physical hard drives with your data on them.

In my case it's a 4TB drive for my 1TB MacBook. So I have data (including previous versions of files) going back years without having to think too much about it.

 

[robertosh]

I see no reason why not to use Time Machine. It's easy to setup, unattended, adds version control, it's quite reliable and external storage is really cheap nowadays. I would just complement with some cloud/external backup as in case of a major disaster, as having source and copy in the same physical place could lead to data loss.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Time Machine is free, simple, bundled with every Mac and mostly "just works."

Best Economical Recommendation
Use 3 Large HDDs (larger than the total storage to be backed up by 2X to 3X times).

• Two connected as (alternating backup) TM discs at all times. With both set up as TM target discs, TM will simply backup up by alternating between the two every (approx.) hour.
• If there is some big data stuff on local storage that you wouldn't care about losing, you can exclude that from backups in TM "options."
• A third drive "C" is also a dedicated TM disc but stored offsite.
• On a regular basis, eject Drive B and take it to where you have Drive C stored. Swap them. Bring C home and attach it to take over for B as the new alt TM disc. Repeat this step regularly (for me, that's monthly).

The Scenario to Justify 3 TM Discs in This Way
Fire/flood/theft or similar total catastrophe. Such things happen to some people EVERY day. If it was you, your Mac and the backups all at the same location (home) are destroyed/lost. The backup stored offsite can likely completely restore your data to the new replacement Mac. The loss in a catastrophe scenario is the newest data you've stored since you last swapped B & C. In my case, that could be last 30 or so days of data if the catastrophe happened on the day before the swap.

For B & C drive, I use a HDD Dock like this one...

...and store the off-site bare HDD in a plastic HDD case.

Big HDDs are dirt cheap (especially relative to Apple product pricing), so this should not be a near-foolproof option out of reach due to cost for almost any Apple people.

If cost is still an issue, drop one drive and enhance your risk a bit by swapping between what would be A & B drives (with one of those off site). Your Mac drive is acting as an additional backup during the swap time. That's Mac storage + One current TM backup drive with one not quite current TM backup stored offsite.

If Budget is Not So Pinched
Those with a little more budget, consider embracing a NAS like Synology. Synology supports TM and works very well. Synology uses a RAID-like drive system so that one drive can fail and the system can be repaired by inserting another disc in place of the failed one. So that's like TWO backups in one device.

• Synology as TM (main)
• Direct attached A & B drives as extra backups with one of them stored offsite.
• Regularly swap A & B at the offsite location.

The common thread in all good backup scenarios is one, fairly up-to-date backup OFF-SITE. It doesn't matter if you have 50 backups at the same location as your Mac. Fire/flood/theft could completely compromise all 50 backups. But ONE stored away from the catastrophe means you probably never lose much data even in worse-case scenarios. This is the part that most people trying to backup do NOT do. Yet it may be the most important part of a good strategy.

 

[Ben J.]

These days, with apple's installing the system on a protected volume, and all user data, apps etc on the '- Data' volume, the only thing you need to back up is the data volume. That's what TM does. Installation of macOS is always available if needed, and later you use Migration Assistant to move data from a TM backup to the newly installed macOS drive. TM can do this perfectly fine, and that's how apple has designed it to work.

Before this 'safe system partition' scheme was introduced, we used other backup software or Disk Utilities to backup everything including the system, and that's when TM wasn't enough. It couldn't cope, and couldn't recreate disks perfectly while other software could.

So, use Time Machine. It's perfectly fine.

As for the cost of apple's internal drive on purchase, vs externals, there's a lot of money to be saved. I have 2 x 2TB externals for storage and backups, and I saved a few hundreds of dollars.

 

[heretiq]

Hi there, so I know there’s a lot of threads already about upgrading to a Mac mini. However I’m trying to figure out the storage situation of buying an entry level max mini and then wondering if I should get another external for Time Machine.

I’m still using a 2010 27” iMac and I had upgrading it with a 1 TB internal and have a 1TB external for Time Machine.

If I go with a mini I’ll have less internal storage, but I read articles about setting up and external SSD to hold the bulk of data as appose to breaking the bank and upgrading the internal drive at checkout with apple.

Then I wondered well if there’s already one external for that what about another for Time Machine? I really depend on that with my iMac and I wonder is it still as important today to use Time Machine or are other apple users going different routes?

I stopped using Time Machine after my iMac Hard Drive and AirPort Time Capsule Hard Drive both failed on the same weekend. Both devices were purchased at the same time and both used the same 1TB HD. The iMac HD failed Friday evening and I was able to get a Genius Bar appointment for Saturday afternoon. I didn't panic because I had everything backed up on Time Capsule. Apple replaced the HD the same day and I picked up the iMac Saturday evening.

However, Sunday morning I tried to restore from my Time Capsule backup only to find that its Hard Drive had failed as well. I was able to get a Genius Bar appointment Sunday afternoon and luckily the issue was a failed controller card so I didn't lose any data. Nevertheless, it was a nightmare as tax returns were due Monday evening and all my files were on the hard drive.

It worked out well since I was able to file my taxes and Apple compensated me for the extraordinary circumstances by giving me a brand new top of the line replacement iMac and a new 1TB Time Capsule on Wednesday -- when I went back to the store I purchased them from to voice my concerns to the manager. That event impressed two things upon me: (1) Apple stands by their products and reciprocates customer loyalty, and (2) never rely on consumer file backup systems to protect critical information.

I subsequently replaced the Time Capsule and Time Machine with a 2TB iCloud plan and moved all of my files/data to Apple's industrial-grade iCloud storage. This leaves only my apps without backup; but I purchase most of my apps from the App Store and those that are not App Store purchased can be easily downloaded -- so re-downloading and installing apps when necessary is trivial. Since making that change I have never lost data stored in iCloud. However, I do keep a 32GB Flash Drive handy to store critical files. I'm convinced that this is the way to go and I have one less thing to manage or worry about.

 

[darkcompass]

Local Time Machine backups have been really important for me when testing public betas of OSes and needing to restore, new hardware setup, and recovering documents when you need to revert what you did, or even pulling a document from weeks before from the backup.
I'd be lost without a Time Machine backup.

 

[throAU]

I stopped using Time Machine after my iMac Hard Drive and AirPort Time Capsule Hard Drive both failed on the same weekend. Both devices were purchased at the same time and both used the same 1TB HD. The iMac HD failed Friday evening and I was able to get a Genius Bar appointment for Saturday afternoon. I didn't panic because I had everything backed up on Time Capsule. Apple replaced the HD the same day and I picked up the iMac Saturday evening.

Yeah that would suck and is very unlucky.

I'd suggest replacing Time Machine drives every 2-3 years (before they fail - keep the old ones as an archive if they still work), and/or as above mentioned - use more than one Time Machine drive.

Unfortunately backup drives, like normal drives are still prone to failure.

In enterprise, storage vendors do things like sourcing drives from different batches/build dates to ensure things like multi-drive failure do not happen; I'd suggest having a larger drive for Time Machine would help ensure its not the same make/model/batch as your internal drive and less likely to fail at the same time.

I would strongly advise against relying on cloud as your only backup however - if someone compromises your iCloud account, you're screwed (they have all your stuff and can delete in the cloud and sync/wipe your Mac from iCloud).

Cloud SYNC (whether it is iCloud or something else) is NOT really a backup. It's a convenience but due to the always-connected, continuous synchronisation nature of it, it's not a backup against accidental deletion, corruption or malicious intent. It's just high availability of your data against device failure.

Have multiple copies on different methods of backup. Whatever methods they happen to be.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Yes, I'm anti-cloud (dependency) myself. That's "off site" and likely RAID-like, so like 2+ backups in some mysterious location... but it's also trusting total strangers to keep that cloud secure, not be snooping around in your data and not exploit that fact that they have complete control of that data.

If you want "cloud" build your own cloud with a NAS box and then you are cloud caretaker, security team, etc. But since your cloud will also be at the same location (in most cases), be sure to have one dedicated drive stored offsite and regularly updated (the swap approach previously described is easy, fast and cheap).

 

[throAU]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-cloud; BUT whether its your own cloud or anyone else's, if you have continuous synchronisation turned on, unless you're backing the underlying data up by some other method (e.g., NAS snapshots, backing up the NAS hosting your own cloud storage, etc.) - it isn't a backup.

It's just a synched copy that will be corrupted/overwritten/deleted pretty soon after any synchronised source copy of it is messed with. Someone gets access to either your cloud copy or one of your unlocked devices and they can delete it all from every device pretty easy.

Or you can do it yourself by accident...

 

[throAU]

The common thread in all good backup scenarios is one, fairly up-to-date backup OFF-SITE. It doesn't matter if you have 50 backups at the same location as your Mac. Fire/flood/theft could completely compromise all 50 backups. But ONE stored away from the catastrophe means you probably never lose much data even in worse-case scenarios. This is the part that most people trying to backup do NOT do. Yet it may be the most important part of a good strategy.

It doesn't even have to be a natural disaster, etc.

If your house is broken into and your stuff is stolen, you're still screwed. As per above I have my off-site copy (it's encrypted) at work, I use my MacBook at work and rather than lugging a drive around with me it's easier to just leave it somewhere I frequently visit and work at.

YMMV, but definitely - people who don't have an up to date copy off-site in some manner have a huge hole in their data protection strategy.

This stuff doesn't have to be that complicated; not losing data isn't rocket science (have multiple copies in different locations that aren't immediately synchronised/over-written) - you just need to actually do it.

The big benefit of time machine in my view is that it is so seamless. I get to work and plug in the drive along with my power adapter. Because it requires pretty close to zero effort, it gets done every day.

The more complicated and manual you make the process, the more likely is that you'll put it off, and before you know it you've had a data loss event and your last backup was six months ago

This is why time machine is so good.

 

[BeatCrazy]

I stopped using/relying on Time Machine years ago. I have my media (mostly FLAC music files) backed up via Carbon Copy Cloner.

For ‘Mac stuff’, I just use iCloud. I can set up a new Mac from scratch, faster and easier than I can from a Time Machine backup.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-cloud; BUT whether its your own cloud or anyone else's, if you have continuous synchronisation turned on, unless you're backing the underlying data up by some other method (e.g., NAS snapshots, backing up the NAS hosting your own cloud storage, etc.) - it isn't a backup.

It's just a synched copy that will be corrupted/overwritten/deleted pretty soon after any synchronised source copy of it is messed with. Someone gets access to either your cloud copy or one of your unlocked devices and they can delete it all from every device pretty easy.

Or you can do it yourself by accident...

If someone gets ahold of one of my unlocked devices, I’ve got bigger problems than having them delete every one of my contacts one-by-one (why would they even do such a thing?).

Photos can be recovered from Deleted Album for ~30 days.

 

[throAU]

If someone gets ahold of one of my unlocked devices, I’ve got bigger problems than having them delete every one of my contacts one-by-one (why would they even do such a thing?).

Photos can be recovered from Deleted Album for ~30 days.

You have find my enabled? Remote device wipe. You use iCloud files? Select all/delete.

Someone breaks into your iCloud account or Apple is compromised? Screwed.
You accidentally over-write a bunch of files in iCloud? Screwed
Malware running on your device removes your iCloud files? Screwed

You do you, but relying on any single "backup copy", especially one that is always on line and synchronised is asking for disaster. Is it likely? No, but it is trivially mitigated; not sure about you but if I was to lose everything I have in my iCloud account I'd be most upset. So I have backups of it.

Photos in the photos app are the least of my worries, in my iCloud I have all my docs... password protected financial info, tax receipts, etc. Actual important stuff.


Some things I don't access every 30 days. Could be months before I notice something is damaged or gone from iCloud. I have several years of version history of files in Time Machine...



CCC is all well and good and a decent replacement; but relying on just iCloud for anything - you're going to get screwed sooner or later.

 

[BeatCrazy]

You have find my enabled? Remote device wipe. You use iCloud files? Select all/delete.

Someone breaks into your iCloud account or Apple is compromised? Screwed.
You accidentally over-write a bunch of files in iCloud? Screwed
Malware running on your device removes your iCloud files? Screwed

You do you, but relying on any single "backup copy", especially one that is always on line and synchronised is asking for disaster. Is it likely? No, but it is trivially mitigated; not sure about you but if I was to lose everything I have in my iCloud account I'd be most upset. So I have backups of it.

Photos in the photos app are the least of my worries, in my iCloud I have all my docs... password protected financial info, tax receipts, etc. Actual important stuff.


Some things I don't access every 30 days. Could be months before I notice something is damaged or gone from iCloud. I have several years of version history of files in Time Machine...



CCC is all well and good and a decent replacement; but relying on just iCloud for anything - you're going to get screwed sooner or later.

You do you, too!

If someone breaks into my iCloud account, they could wipe out my life savings, etc.

Them deleting a bunch of PDF receipts I have stored in iCloud Drive is the least of my worries.

 

[DanielCalladine]

I have switched to cloud drive + external SSD route and no longer use Time Machine. My MacBook no longer holds the actual data files anyways.

256GB M2 Air
2TB iCloud Drive
2TB Samsung T7 (mostly identical as iCloud)

(Offsite: fam's house) an older LaCie 4TB hard drive; I add some new files occasionally when I visit them

Hello,

Are you able to somehow get your iCloud Drive folder moved to an external drive? I'm looking for a way to do this as my iCloud Drive folder is larger than my internal SSD.

The OS is currently optimising the storage so not all my iCloud Drive files are actually on my Mac mini, does this mean that Time Machine isn't backing those files up either?

Thanks, Daniel

 

[Krypton Deer]

Are you able to somehow get your iCloud Drive folder moved to an external drive? I'm looking for a way to do this as my iCloud Drive folder is larger than my internal SSD.

No, I don't think you can, unless you're booting macOS from the external drive. This means if you have a 256GB MacBook and 1TB of files sitting on your external SSD, it's not the easiest to even upload them to iCloud initially. You also do not have detailed control over what files get stored offline.

The OS is currently optimising the storage so not all my iCloud Drive files are actually on my Mac mini, does this mean that Time Machine isn't backing those files up either?

Yes, if you choose "optimise storage" for iCloud Drive, Time Machine can only back up whatever are available offline. That's why I give up on Time Machine and manually copy projects to my external SSD - when I copy and paste a cloud-only folder, it will immediately download everything so this works at least.