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Is there a 'sweet spot' Mac Pro in terms of value/upgradability?
- Thread starter cageytiger
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So I'm basically looking for an 8-core 5,1? Is a 4,1 > 5,1 upgraded 8 core a bad idea due to new OS uncertainties?
Thanks!
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Hi Loby, thanks for the reply. This is kind of my problem, I'm sure a 6-core 2013 would serve me well for a few years - despite its design flaws. I just can't shake the 'value' argument, and they might actually add in some easy upgradability/better cooling etc to a new model which would drastically increase it's life span, so I'm really torn.
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I currently have 4 drives, 1 x 3TB WD Black for samples, 1 x 2TB HDD for immediate backups (also externally back up), 1 SSD for projects, 1 SSD for OS. So MacMini's are living with the iMac's and MacBooks at the moment - in that they would definitely work for me, but I'd have to do some rearranging of work flow and system set up.
How do the beasty 2012 MacMini's stand up against say a 2010 Quad/Six-core MacPro in terms of speed? They're pretty similar in price - there's a refurbished 6 core 32GB 2010 for £750 on eBay and the MacMini servers are not far off that.
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Unfortunately, this is what's holding me back on an iMac. I'm really used to working on 2 (or even 3 monitors) at 1080p - I find my workflow much easier to handle when I can keep windows visible rather than cycle through. My desk has a firewire interface (AH GSR24M) and I back up internally daily/weekly over a firewire drive. I know I could utilise the new stuff and probably enjoy it, but it feels like I'm paying a lot for stuff I don't neeeeed.
I think after reading everyones comments, due to having always built my own systems and getting complete value for money - I need to change my mentality towards mac!
Respectfully, the above is incorrect.
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-5-1-interesting.1977139/page-2#post-23007635
To me, the 2009 upgrade is still a good value proposition. I have two 2009 single-CPU MPs, each of which is now recognized as a 5,1 with hex CPU. One is the heart of my recording studio, the second a backup. Interchangeable CPU/RAM trays are sweet. I'm not doing huge VI orchestrations so, even with a single hex CPU, I have yet to hit the CPU wall. I am ready to go VE Pro/CPU Farm if necessary, and see my 2009s as being viable for a number of years yet.
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This is my thinking at the moment. I can pick up a quad 4,1 for about £400, upgrade to 5,1, add a W3680 for £80 and I should be fine until I'm settled on what I want to do. I'm in a similar situation, I do use a lot of orchestration etc but I also use a lot of outboard, so I'm printing/freezing tracks quite often and don't tend to have a totally crazy cpu load.
Did you upgrade the processors yourself? Is there any 'de-lidding'? Are there any downsides over just picking up a 5,1?
Thanks man.
I get what you are saying about the 6,1. I have one, bought it over 2 years ago, but I wouldn't buy a new one now. If I were buying now and it had to be a Mac I'd get a second hand 6,1. There's a few places that sell used macs and will give you a warranty with them. Worth a look.
The prices are pretty crazy though - still looking at £1900 minimum for the most basic 12GB system.
its just a bad time to buy right (or a bad half decade to buy). and with Apple's silence, no one knows what we are in for. if your hackintosh is working for you now, might as well stick with it. hopefully we get answers in the next few months, if there is still nothing that impresses you then, get an old Mac Pro. And since your setup is built around Firewire, maybe plan your computer purchase around your hardware update. It's a constantly moving target. get a new machine now with thunderbolt, but two years from now, everything will be connecting over the universal USB C/Thunderbolt/DisplayPort connector and you'll be right back here (with the rest of us) asking and wondering about the same things.
TL;DR: a 2009 Mac Pro tower with a firmware upgrade is TOTALLY worth it.
I currently have a 2x 2.26Ghz quad-core Mac Pro 2009 with a firmware upgrade to 5,1. I bought the computer for $950 at www.ipowerresale.com. If you ask nicely and pay them a bit, they'll do the firmware upgrade for you. I have so far upgraded the RAM to 64GB and am looking at making the leap to dual 3.46Ghz hex-cores. My end goal is to have the computer running: 2x 3.46Ghz hex-cores (12 real cores, 24 virtual), 64GB RAM, and a flashed (if MVC can do it) GTX1080 (or maybe 1070, depending on my budget then).
I can accomplish this entire project for ~$2500, and the specs are very good. This CPU set up (2x 3.46 hex) is said to match the 32-bit Geekbench benchmark of the new Mac Pro with the 12-core CPU.
Feel free to message me or reply to this post with any questions!
I currently have a 2x 2.26Ghz quad-core Mac Pro 2009 with a firmware upgrade to 5,1. I bought the computer for $950 at www.ipowerresale.com. If you ask nicely and pay them a bit, they'll do the firmware upgrade for you. I have so far upgraded the RAM to 64GB and am looking at making the leap to dual 3.46Ghz hex-cores. My end goal is to have the computer running: 2x 3.46Ghz hex-cores (12 real cores, 24 virtual), 64GB RAM, and a flashed (if MVC can do it) GTX1080 (or maybe 1070, depending on my budget then).
I can accomplish this entire project for ~$2500, and the specs are very good. This CPU set up (2x 3.46 hex) is said to match the 32-bit Geekbench benchmark of the new Mac Pro with the 12-core CPU.
Feel free to message me or reply to this post with any questions!
^^^^Your left out one of the most important items you'll need for your transformation - A Samsung AHCI SM951 SSD mounted on an Angelbird Wings PX1 or Lycom PCIe card.
And as far as the GPU, it's not if MVC can do it, he can, it's if Nvidia supplies an updated Web Driver with the necessary code to drive the card.
Lou
And as far as the GPU, it's not if MVC can do it, he can, it's if Nvidia supplies an updated Web Driver with the necessary code to drive the card.
Lou
I totally forgot about SSDs! I'm actually looking at getting the Sonnet SSD Pro Plus PCIe card for two SSDs and I'm looking to up my HDD storage. However I'm pushing this off because I currently don't have the capital and startup time isn't important to me right now and for everything else right now, 100MBps read/write is acceptable.
In terms of the GPU, I thought Nvidia had released the web drivers for them. MVC said he's been using the cards on a Mac Pro (he might have been using windows, though).
Unfortunately Apple's hardware choices are very limited. You've already tried the hackintosh route and don't like the unpredictable nature of updates and the effect it can have on your work. If you can't get a fast enough Mac for the budget you have, then I'd say it's time to swap platforms. You already have the PC, perhaps put your efforts into migrating your work to another application? It seems like a logical step if Apple's lack of hardware has the potential to cost you money through loss of business.
Thanks for all your help guys. I've concluded I'm going to pimp out a quad 4,1 for the near future:
4,1 > 5,1 F/FW
Hexcore W3690
Maxed RAM
PCIe SSD / SSD Project drives
USB 3.0
I can do this for well under £700, should be approaching something like the same performance I had in my 3770k PC (although I'm still sceptical how well Logic will handle the extra threads to compensate for single core performance). This way I have my Hackintosh as a backup system or for the odd project I need a bit more juice. Customer facing/client intensive stuff I can be on the MP to keep up appearances and/or not have a nervous breakdown a kext will 'go missing'.
I should actually add value to the MP looking at similar spec eBay prices now, so it buys me some time to wait for announcements and developments where I'll be happy to drop £3-4k on a system with confidence, whether it's a 2013 or whatever is coming.
Cheers!
4,1 > 5,1 F/FW
Hexcore W3690
Maxed RAM
PCIe SSD / SSD Project drives
USB 3.0
I can do this for well under £700, should be approaching something like the same performance I had in my 3770k PC (although I'm still sceptical how well Logic will handle the extra threads to compensate for single core performance). This way I have my Hackintosh as a backup system or for the odd project I need a bit more juice. Customer facing/client intensive stuff I can be on the MP to keep up appearances and/or not have a nervous breakdown a kext will 'go missing'.
I should actually add value to the MP looking at similar spec eBay prices now, so it buys me some time to wait for announcements and developments where I'll be happy to drop £3-4k on a system with confidence, whether it's a 2013 or whatever is coming.
Cheers!
If you are budget right. Just buy the cheapest SATA 3 SSD which just big enough to handle your OS and Applications), plug that into one of the SATA 2 bay (the easiest one is the lower optical bay), then you can greatly speed up the whole system by as low as $30 (assuming a 120G SSD).
I think this is a good low cost temporary solution then doing nothing.
I think this is a good low cost temporary solution then doing nothing.
Hi, I think the SSD comment was directed at nlistgarten?
I've just noticed in your signature you have pretty much exactly the build I'm going for! I'm going to pick your brain - if thats ok!?
I'm think I'm going for a SM951 256GB on a Lycom DT-120 Adaptor - is there any problems with that? It all seems to be compatible.
RAM wise - is any matched ECC 1333Mz sticks OK? Or are there any to avoid/are preferred?
Is there any performance difference between a fw upgraded 4,1 and a 5,1 with the same CPU/RAM etc?
Thanks man!
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That SSD setup looks ok to me. My only advice is do NOT pick the NVMe SSD.
For RAM, yes, almost all server RAM that has correct spec can run in cMP. And if you want everything work as expected, the RAM better be 2Rx4 (the rank), this is relatively easy to miss, and other ranking (e.g. 4Rx4) may force you RAM to run in 1066 instead of 1333.
Yes and No, 5,1 firmware allow the same RAM stick run in 1333 with the correct CPU. So, yes, the firmware can cause performance difference to the RAM. But it won't make the same CPU or the same 1066 only stick faster.
The 4.1 Mac Pro fits exactly your description in the title. The base model (W3520 4x2,66 GHz, 3GB, 640GB HDD, GT120) is good value and can go as far as any of the following cMPs in terms of upgradability. Now bear in mind that all these upgrades can add up to quite an amount. Over the years I've spent more on upgrades than the price of the machine itself (bought for 2000€ on the refurb store).
Only aim for the dual CPU if your workflow can actually use more than 6 cores, otherwise it will make no difference at all except for more noise, heat, power consumption and being more expensive to upgrade.
For the SSD, putting a SATA3 adapter makes little to no difference on a day to day usage except for sequential throughput (copying files). The overall system reactivity depends more on latency and IOPS unless your workflow moves a ******** of data. Any SSD thrown into the optical bay will do the trick. If you need awesome drive performance, save your money for a PCI-e drive.
Only aim for the dual CPU if your workflow can actually use more than 6 cores, otherwise it will make no difference at all except for more noise, heat, power consumption and being more expensive to upgrade.
For the SSD, putting a SATA3 adapter makes little to no difference on a day to day usage except for sequential throughput (copying files). The overall system reactivity depends more on latency and IOPS unless your workflow moves a ******** of data. Any SSD thrown into the optical bay will do the trick. If you need awesome drive performance, save your money for a PCI-e drive.
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Thanks - what I wanted to hear!
Why no NVMe? I actually have one I was going to use as a boot drive that's NVMe - I could leave that in the hackintosh and buy a non if it's a problem.
Thanks again
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I bought exactly that model/config for a decent price. I'm moving to a w3690, maxing out the ram and I have a m.2 ssd spare so I'll go pcie for that. I think I'll actually stay under £600 for the whole system. Maybe a little extra if I go usb3.
Benchmarks will be above the quad 2013 - multi core anyway. And in audio terms my track count will go much higher.
Insane for the money.
NVMe is a completely new interface, and is nothing like SATA or SAS.
SATA boot code simply won't work with an NVMe drive (both BIOS and system bootstrap drivers).
If any one does come across this thread and wants a conclusion...
I went for a 4,1 > 5,1 upgraded to
3,46ghz hex core
32GB 1333mhz RAM
ATI 5770
PCIe SSD Adaptor (EVO 850)
USB 3.0
Cost me well under £650 in total.
It Geekbenches (64bit multi) at 16000, and Novabenches at 1485, which is considerably higher than the nMP quad.
Running the Logic Pro Benchmark test (not perfect, but as close to real world as we can get) I'm hitting 130 tracks stable, my 4790k hackintosh hits 142. For comparison the low end nMP hits approx 110, the 6core nMP hits approx 145.
Unless you NEED thunderbolt, there seems to be no good reason I can find to go for a trashcan. I can't see me getting close to maxing this out very often, but I will be keeping an eye on dual cpu 2010 mac pro's so I can throw 2 x5690's in one and not have to think about it for a few years.
Cheers
I went for a 4,1 > 5,1 upgraded to
3,46ghz hex core
32GB 1333mhz RAM
ATI 5770
PCIe SSD Adaptor (EVO 850)
USB 3.0
Cost me well under £650 in total.
It Geekbenches (64bit multi) at 16000, and Novabenches at 1485, which is considerably higher than the nMP quad.
Running the Logic Pro Benchmark test (not perfect, but as close to real world as we can get) I'm hitting 130 tracks stable, my 4790k hackintosh hits 142. For comparison the low end nMP hits approx 110, the 6core nMP hits approx 145.
Unless you NEED thunderbolt, there seems to be no good reason I can find to go for a trashcan. I can't see me getting close to maxing this out very often, but I will be keeping an eye on dual cpu 2010 mac pro's so I can throw 2 x5690's in one and not have to think about it for a few years.
Cheers
Any single-threaded operations will be much faster on a 3.70GHz nMP than with a 3.46GHz cMP. The latter only has 80% of the single core performance of the newer system.
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get this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-P...379058?hash=item3ac6fa0c32:g:76oAAOxykMpTIAJE
12 cores complete tower for EDIT $1650.
and then get a MvC 980ti...or wait 2 months for the new OS to see if it supports 1080/1070 or maybe AMD?
But this machine will be fly for days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-P...379058?hash=item3ac6fa0c32:g:76oAAOxykMpTIAJE
12 cores complete tower for EDIT $1650.
and then get a MvC 980ti...or wait 2 months for the new OS to see if it supports 1080/1070 or maybe AMD?
But this machine will be fly for days.