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smoledman

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2011
1,943
364
Really? MS has poured money into a platform that has negligible market penetration. Nokia's valuation is dropping like a rock for a reason - and it's not the awesome hardware. You have a white elephant and a "has been" company.

Any drooling would be related to the lobotomy on the part of anyone who'd purchase such a thing. But yes, there may be some drooling...

Nokia is in trouble because of huge fixed costs that have nothing to do with Windows Phone development. They have 134K employees, 90% of which have nothing to do with Lumia phones.
 

ChazUK

macrumors 603
Feb 3, 2008
5,393
25
Essex (UK)
Which is why Microsoft has been pouring energy and resources into building up Windows Phone. Heck look at all the awards it's won for the design. Now Nokia is making great hardware for it and the app store is nearing 85K. Apollo will bring WP in line with iOS/Android on software and Nokia will no doubt make hardware that will make us all drool. October can't come soon enough!

Whilst I am also looking forward to Apollo, if the recent speculation is true that not even Nokia's high end darling, the Lumia 900 will not be seeing an Apollo update then I'll be very much worried for the platform.

I'd love to see Apollo on my Titan but the recent announcement from that MS evangelist that all devices will be getting Apollo to his later retraction and Microsoft following up with the vague "All current apps will be compatible with Apollo" which isn't any kind of an answer does have me worried.

Yes Android has had more than its fair share of update issues (which is why I buy Nexus) but to see my Titan relegated to legacy hardware due to lack of updates less than a year into owning it would leave a foul taste in my mouth.
 

smoledman

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2011
1,943
364
Whilst I am also looking forward to Apollo, if the recent speculation is true that not even Nokia's high end darling, the Lumia 900 will not be seeing an Apollo update then I'll be very much worried for the platform.

I'd love to see Apollo on my Titan but the recent announcement from that MS evangelist that all devices will be getting Apollo to his later retraction and Microsoft following up with the vague "All current apps will be compatible with Apollo" which isn't any kind of an answer does have me worried.

Yes Android has had more than its fair share of update issues (which is why I buy Nexus) but to see my Titan relegated to legacy hardware due to lack of updates less than a year into owning it would leave a foul taste in my mouth.

WP 7.x devices will not get Apollo for architecture reasons, but they will continue to get updated on that 7.x branch. So let not your hearts be worried, WP users we will get improvements!

Besides Microsoft has not said anything officially yet. I believe next month they will have some kind of a conference where they announce Apollo. I expect they will also disclose what updates 7.x users can expect as well.
 

SkyBell

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2006
6,606
226
Texas, unfortunately.
These products exist for a reason. I remember when people were slamming netbooks when they came out. I haven't heard anything about them for a while now, I don't even know how many companies still make them. I bought my HP mini almost two years ago, and it's not given me a single issue. More than worth the $330 I paid for it.

I guess "ultrabooks" are the next thing. (I assume they're pretty much like netbooks, only a bit larger in width and slimmer?) Netbooks seemed to do pretty well, I've seen a few around, and I bet ultrabooks will do just as well, if not better. People like small, thin, and probably most importantly, cheap. I would guess ultrabooks are more expensive then a netbook and probably more than a basic 13 or 15" laptop, but with around the same specs? It seems like a bit of a niche market to me, but obviously one big enough exists. They're not "shameful" or anything, they just only appeal to a certain group of people. Obviously, people not in that group are probably not going to see the use for one.
 

smoledman

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2011
1,943
364
These products exist for a reason. I remember when people were slamming netbooks when they came out. I haven't heard anything about them for a while now, I don't even know how many companies still make them. I bought my HP mini almost two years ago, and it's not given me a single issue. More than worth the $330 I paid for it.

I guess "ultrabooks" are the next thing. (I assume they're pretty much like netbooks, only a bit larger in width and slimmer?) Netbooks seemed to do pretty well, I've seen a few around, and I bet ultrabooks will do just as well, if not better. People like small, thin, and probably most importantly, cheap. I would guess ultrabooks are more expensive then a netbook and probably more than a basic 13 or 15" laptop, but with around the same specs? It seems like a bit of a niche market to me, but obviously one big enough exists. They're not "shameful" or anything, they just only appeal to a certain group of people. Obviously, people not in that group are probably not going to see the use for one.

I would think that the market for "thin, beautiful and fast" laptop is growing. Throw in a touch-screen on that and it goes to the next level. That's where Windows 8 can get an advantage on Apple. Touch-screen hybrids and laptops.
 

rutledjw

macrumors member
Aug 11, 2011
65
0
Nokia is in trouble because of huge fixed costs that have nothing to do with Windows Phone development. They have 134K employees, 90% of which have nothing to do with Lumia phones.

Nokia is in trouble because they make phones people don't want. Their market share had been dropping to - wait for it, waaait for it - Windows Mobile market share rates! From that perspective - it's a perfect match.
 

smoledman

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2011
1,943
364
Nokia is in trouble because they make phones people don't want. Their market share had been dropping to - wait for it, waaait for it - Windows Mobile market share rates! From that perspective - it's a perfect match.

You obviously don't want to talk about facts, just prefer to bash at companies you don't like(MSFT/Nokia).
 

rutledjw

macrumors member
Aug 11, 2011
65
0
You obviously don't want to talk about facts, just prefer to bash at companies you don't like(MSFT/Nokia).

You obviously have bias towards companies and products despite the underlying quality (and acceptance in the marketplace). There have been SEVERAL articles discussing Nokia losing marketshare and not having a strategy to attack the smarphone market. Similarly with MS on their mobile strategy to the point of some speculation it might cost Balmer his job.

Those are easy to verify. I just find it humourous your support for a platform that doesn't exist and where adoption of Windows Mobile has been MINIMAL...
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,164
582
Finland
I guess "ultrabooks" are the next thing. (I assume they're pretty much like netbooks, only a bit larger in width and slimmer?) Netbooks seemed to do pretty well, I've seen a few around, and I bet ultrabooks will do just as well, if not better. People like small, thin, and probably most importantly, cheap. I would guess ultrabooks are more expensive then a netbook and probably more than a basic 13 or 15" laptop, but with around the same specs? It seems like a bit of a niche market to me, but obviously one big enough exists. They're not "shameful" or anything, they just only appeal to a certain group of people. Obviously, people not in that group are probably not going to see the use for one.

There is quite a big difference between netbooks and Ultrabooks. Netbooks are/were very compromised in terms of hardware. They had Intel Atoms, very little RAM and usually a small HD. Ultrabooks, on the other hand, are packed with ULV CPUs (based on the same architecture as regular mobile and desktop chips), which are nearly as fast as what are used in standard laptops. Most Ultrabooks also have 4GB of RAM, which is the standard today. The best part is that every Ultrabook has some NAND to speed up I/O performance. That can work either as a cache (often in low-end models, coupled with a hard drive) or standalone drive (more expensive models, such as MacBook Air). Plus too small keyboards, trackpads, LCDs and so on.

Ultrabooks are essentially standard laptops that have gone through a slimming diet. They do have their Achille's Heels of course but in many cases, they can substitute a regular laptop.
 

rutledjw

macrumors member
Aug 11, 2011
65
0
There is quite a big difference between netbooks and Ultrabooks. Netbooks are/were very compromised in terms of hardware. They had Intel Atoms, very little RAM and usually a small HD. Ultrabooks, on the other hand, are packed with ULV CPUs (based on the same architecture as regular mobile and desktop chips), which are nearly as fast as what are used in standard laptops. Most Ultrabooks also have 4GB of RAM, which is the standard today. The best part is that every Ultrabook has some NAND to speed up I/O performance. That can work either as a cache (often in low-end models, coupled with a hard drive) or standalone drive (more expensive models, such as MacBook Air). Plus too small keyboards, trackpads, LCDs and so on.

Ultrabooks are essentially standard laptops that have gone through a slimming diet. They do have their Achille's Heels of course but in many cases, they can substitute a regular laptop.

No doubt Ultrabooks have weaknesses. BUT - MBAs / Ultrabooks are GREAT for road warriors and folks who are "more" mobile than others. Granted, I'm not a gamer (gave it up at 25 after some 12 year old mopped the floor with me in Quake), but after buying one of these (MBA in my case), I can't see going back to a bigger laptop.

At home, I have an external monitor and keyboard. If I need more horsepower, i'd rather build my own box and put a dual Linux/Windows boot on there. Your points are valid but well worth the sacrifice in my case. I never really "got" the netbook craze - although I was curious...
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,164
582
Finland
No doubt Ultrabooks have weaknesses. BUT - MBAs / Ultrabooks are GREAT for road warriors and folks who are "more" mobile than others. Granted, I'm not a gamer (gave it up at 25 after some 12 year old mopped the floor with me in Quake), but after buying one of these (MBA in my case), I can't see going back to a bigger laptop.

At home, I have an external monitor and keyboard. If I need more horsepower, i'd rather build my own box and put a dual Linux/Windows boot on there. Your points are valid but well worth the sacrifice in my case. I never really "got" the netbook craze - although I was curious...

I wasn't criticizing Ultabooks. I have a 13" MBA and would never trade it for a standard laptop. I also have a custom PC running Windows 7 that takes care of my computing needs when at home. In fact, I'm using the MBA with my second monitor as we speak since my main machine is torturing SSDs.

I think right now there are two main sacrifices one has to make when choosing an Ultrabook over a standard laptop. The first one is graphics. Intel's integrated graphics have never been top notch, although they have improved a lot during the last couple of years (Ivy Bridge is bringing a 50% or so increase again). Of course, Ultrabooks have a lot more limited thermal dissipation system so it's not even fair to compare them to 17" "laptops". If you ask me, laptop gaming has always been a joke. You pay a hefty sum of money and get a laptop that's beaten by a $700 desktop. And you have zero upgradeability when it comes to CPUs and GPUs.

The second one is storage, which is a bigger concern. As I said in my previous post, you can choose between two choices: HD + SSD cache or just SSD. I wouldn't consider HD+SSD combo to be a viable solution as it's only found in low-end models and you often do sacrifices in other areas then (LCD, trackpad, built quality...). SSDs are still fairly expensive and most mSATA SSDs top out at 256GB (this should be fixed with 20nm NAND though, which will bring a 16GB die).

Ultrabook is a perfect solution if you don't need a lot storage (or can rely on cloud services or external storage) or it's your secondary system. I haven't regretted buying mine, my back is thanking me everyday.
 

smoledman

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2011
1,943
364
You obviously have bias towards companies and products despite the underlying quality (and acceptance in the marketplace). There have been SEVERAL articles discussing Nokia losing marketshare and not having a strategy to attack the smarphone market. Similarly with MS on their mobile strategy to the point of some speculation it might cost Balmer his job.

Those are easy to verify. I just find it humourous your support for a platform that doesn't exist and where adoption of Windows Mobile has been MINIMAL...

Nokia does have a strategy for attacking the smartphone market. It's called the Lumia line.
 

N0k14 D14B10

macrumors newbie
Apr 26, 2012
10
0
yup

ultrabooks are by design ULTRA PORTABLE easy to use etc. so yes it is a Unofficial Official ultrabook! intel is sometimes just a jerk.
 
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