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Doombringer

macrumors regular
Feb 13, 2012
162
0
Win 8 will be another step in the right direction. And really, these steps began with Vista... believe it or not. Vista started a shift away from the XP/95/98/NT way of thinking iand 7 made a bigger push. 8 is going farther, yet I think the Metro interface will turn a lot of people off.

Then again, people balked at the Windows 7 taskbar/window functionality when it first debuted. Now people love the OS. ;)

MLion will be an incremental step up from Lion, as well. And one I welcome. I hope Lion's lackluster performance is addressed; I have a brand new i7 Mini and with Lion I notice a slight stutter now and again. Nothing world-ending, though. I'm *really* looking forward to more iCloud functionality.
 

Dr McKay

macrumors 68040
Aug 11, 2010
3,527
249
Kirkland
I don't think it's a response to Windows 8, as much as people will defend OS X Lion, it got very bad press, often being hailed as "Apples Vista". Lion will probably never be able to shake that image, Vista nowadays is a very stable and reliable OS thanks to its service packs, but it still has a very bad image. Releasing Mountain Lion gives OS X a chance to invent a new image for the OS.

Besides, didn't OS X used to be on a yearly release schedule?
 

Jagardn

macrumors 6502a
Apr 18, 2011
668
2
I don't think it's a response to Windows 8, as much as people will defend OS X Lion, it got very bad press, often being hailed as "Apples Vista". Lion will probably never be able to shake that image, Vista nowadays is a very stable and reliable OS thanks to its service packs, but it still has a very bad image. Releasing Mountain Lion gives OS X a chance to invent a new image for the OS.

Besides, didn't OS X used to be on a yearly release schedule?

Lion may have put a bad taste in the mouths of people on forums and long time Mac users, but the general public doesn't know anything about it. MS has a much larger customer base, so Vista being a turd was known by most everyone.
 

Dr McKay

macrumors 68040
Aug 11, 2010
3,527
249
Kirkland
Lion may have put a bad taste in the mouths of people on forums and long time Mac users, but the general public doesn't know anything about it. MS has a much larger customer base, so Vista being a turd was known by most everyone.

Apple may have a smaller customer base, but most of Microsofts marketshare comes from businesses and governments.

Also Apple is in the public eye much more. And it's the general public who turn to their more tech savvy friends who frequent forums like this, for advice about computers. My parents, neighbours and not as tech savvy friends base most of their tech opinions on mine, because I've told them how I feel, and they trust my judgement.
 

Wicked1

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2009
3,283
14
New Jersey
Seriously, Lion is LESS than a year old! And already they're talking about the next OS? Was there something wrong with Lion? Did apple just in a snap-decision decide to suddenly release a new operating system every 12 months? Or... is this intended to compete with Windows 8?

Alright, bear with me here for a moment and let me explain my contrived logic here. As some of you may know, a game console known as Sony's PlayStation 2 was released over a decade ago, and it competed against the Nintendo Gamecube and the newest company in the gaming industry: Microsoft and their Xbox game console.

Over the years, the three game consoles started to show their age and gamers wanted better graphics and stuff. So a new line of consoles was scheduled to come out. Nobody knew what Nintendo was planning (they eventually made the Wii, which of course turned out to be a huge hit when it first came out) but everybody pretty much assumed Sony's next console would be called the PlayStation 3. Those assumptions proved to be right.

But what about Microsoft's Xbox? It was the first console of its brand, and with such an uninspiring name, a lot of people assumed Microsoft's next console would be called the Xbox 2. Of course, this would put Microsoft in a tricky spot: they'd have to compete against the PlayStation 3 with an Xbox 2. Which game console do you think your typical know-nothing-about-gaming mother is going to buy little Jimmy for Christmas? Of COURSE she's going to buy the PlayStation 3 and not the Xbox 2... IT HAS A BIGGER NUMBER, SO THAT MUST MEAN IT'S BETTER/NEWER/MORE DESIRED BY MY CHILD!

This all may sound very silly at this point, (caps lock notwithstanding) but understand that I'm talking about a company's perceptions of what consumer perceptions will be. Any slip-up in this situation could mean severe financial losses later on when a product is unveiled, so the presentation and design must be scrutinized.

So, Microsoft did not release a console named the Xbox 2. They released a console named the Xbox 360. Now, as an owner of the game console in question, I can testify there is absolutely nothing circular about the console's design or internal mechanics. 360 is a very arbitrary way to describe the very rectangular, if slightly curvy game console.

But how was this presented? "Exbox three-sixty!" all the commercials said. NOT "Exbox three hundred and sixty", just "Exbox three-sixty" which was obviously intended to compete against the "Play station three".

Bringing us back to the topic at hand here, I think the same logic is being applied by Apple to their operating system. They don't want to be caught in the awkward situation of selling an OS with seven in the name during the same year their competitor is selling an eight!

And that, I believe, is one of the main reasons why Apple is pushing this new OS so soon after the release of Lion. Anybody else share this sentiment? Does this make any sense at all? :rolleyes:


Ha Mountain Lion, I am still on Leopard and have no plans on moving my uMB, however my 2011 Mini is Lion, still getting used to the quirks and missing components, and there is no way I will go to Mountain Lion, even if the new iOS which I am calling (Mountain Lion Cub) requires ML.

I am still mif'd about all the things they removed from Lion that worked fine in SL, and now they want to make a requirement that only apps sold in the app store will work with ML, unless you deselect the check box, then according tho Apple this puts you at risk? Huh? Really?

They should have just improved on SL and please someone develop a port to use iCloud in SL.
 

brendu

Cancelled
Apr 23, 2009
2,472
2,703
Mountain Lion is typical apple. Some new features, same core OS functionality. Windows 8 is a totally different story. It behaves very differently from the very well polished windows 7. I think microsoft is going in the wrong direction with it personally. Windows 8 is a great OS for tablets. For the desktop, windows 8 is a nightmare and I think very few people are going to prefer it to the clean, simple windows 7.

Like KPOM said before, windows 7 will see the 10 years of usage and support like windows XP had. I believe they are right about that. Businesses are just starting to adopt it and they are going to stick with it for awhile.
 
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Scarrus

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2011
295
86
Ha Mountain Lion, I am still on Leopard and have no plans on moving my uMB, however my 2011 Mini is Lion, still getting used to the quirks and missing components, and there is no way I will go to Mountain Lion, even if the new iOS which I am calling (Mountain Lion Cub) requires ML.

I am still mif'd about all the things they removed from Lion that worked fine in SL, and now they want to make a requirement that only apps sold in the app store will work with ML, unless you deselect the check box, then according tho Apple this puts you at risk? Huh? Really?

They should have just improved on SL and please someone develop a port to use iCloud in SL.


My thoughts exactly! And why does the system have to be slower when it actually removed some feature?



Oh yeah, gimme them minus points! How dare I not share your opinion!
 

heisenberg123

macrumors 603
Oct 31, 2010
6,498
9
Hamilton, Ontario
I don't think it has anything to do with windows. Mountain lion will be on the app store not off a shelf where "Johnny momma know nothing" won't get confused what os is the "best".

I think this will be something we will see more often from osx with frequent new versions in the 20-30$ range
 

scottsjack

macrumors 68000
Aug 25, 2010
1,906
311
Arizona
I don't think it has anything to do with windows. Mountain lion will be on the app store not off a shelf where "Johnny momma know nothing" won't get confused what os is the "best".

I think this will be something we will see more often from osx with frequent new versions in the 20-30$ range

Johnny momma know nothing might indeed be confused about what OS is the best if the Mountain Lion box was sitting next to a Snow Leopard box!
 

nick9191

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2008
3,407
313
Britain
As mentioned, the X stands for TEN. OS 10. That beats 8.

Not only that, but most people refer to it by the cat name rather than 10.x

If Apple release OS XI the day Microsoft release Windows 10 then I may agree with your theory.
 

Mr. Retrofire

macrumors 603
Mar 2, 2010
5,064
519
www.emiliana.cl/en
Yes clearly they are a user a issue, because that's not supposed to happen, and very rarely ever does. Did you ever consider you received a corrupt HDD? More than likely you have a corrupt HDD right now and don't know it.
Yeah, that must be the reason, why his Mac works fine under Windows 7 and Snow Leopard. It must be the HDD (built by the user, so he is responsible, of course *lol*) and not Lion. Never! This is the “well known” Not-Lion-Compatible-HDD-Issue. Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

----------

Only the most immature person could ever conclude that their unfortunate luck with an OS means that OS is terrible, and faulty.
This was a fresh installation, so 100 % Apples code (no third party stuff). And you defend Apple here?
 

Tmelon

macrumors 65816
Feb 26, 2011
1,150
619
I don't think Apple is trying to rush their release schedule just to line up the numbers. I think they just want to synchronize their iOS releases with their OS X releases since they're making them more similar to each other.
 

ajvizzgamer101

macrumors 65816
Mar 3, 2008
1,007
26
United States
I think they are pushing for iOS style Operating System for all there systems and that means new Operating Systems every year until iOS and OS X merge, or so the rumor say they will merge.
 

Tmelon

macrumors 65816
Feb 26, 2011
1,150
619
I think they are pushing for iOS style Operating System for all there systems and that means new Operating Systems every year until iOS and OS X merge, or so the rumor say they will merge.

There's no way that iOS and OS X can merge without a major dumbing down of OS X or bloating iOS. A merge just isn't going to happen. I think the point of these synchronized iOS and OS X release dates is so that when Apple releases a new feature for one it will also be available for the other at the same time.
 

ajvizzgamer101

macrumors 65816
Mar 3, 2008
1,007
26
United States
There's no way that iOS and OS X can merge without a major dumbing down of OS X or bloating iOS. A merge just isn't going to happen. I think the point of these synchronized iOS and OS X release dates is so that when Apple releases a new feature for one it will also be available for the other at the same time.

"dumbing down of OS X or bloating iOS." That's exactly what they have been doing... I'm aware it won't happen overnight.
 

yongren

macrumors regular
Jan 19, 2011
117
0
I know there is a lot of new stuff, but I still can't help but wonder why this isn't 10.7.X.

Releasing a bunch of new features at once in a big update could draw more attention to them than if you had more smaller, incremental updates. In that sense, I'd say it is very likely that there was more marketing than software design involved in releasing "Mountain Lion" as such.
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
4,037
65
Plymouth, MN
I know there is a lot of new stuff, but I still can't help but wonder why this isn't 10.7.X. \

Because that is not how Apple releases system updates. Updates are designed to fix bugs for the current build - they do not add programs or change the way the system operates. Heck, MS doesn’t do this sort of thing. Just because something is not visually big doesn’t mean that it isn't a big update.
 

KevinN206

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2009
506
404
Download the Windows 8 preview and see for yourself if it's a threat. Windows 8 is kind of a joke. I fully expect Windows 7 to be the next XP and enjoy a full 10 years of support in the enterprise while everyone overlooks 8 in hopes that 9 will fix everything.

Maybe people will love the whole "Metro" thing and the one OS across all platforms but I just can't see Windows 8 being something that would cause Apple to change their roadmap.
It's difficult to pass judgement on Windows 8 Developer Preview. The release was really meant for developers to learn the Metro UI and WinRT API. The Consumer Preview should be available for public consumption on Feb 29, and it has significant changes to the usability and UI. The Windows Store will also be available, and all those demo apps written by interns will not be included. Built-in apps will also be available such as Calendar, Mail, Music, etc...

You can download a copy and try it again on that date. I also suggest that you try it on a REAL computer (don't run it in a VM). I installed a copy of Windows 8 DP too on my laptop, and it was noticeably faster than Windows 7 in every ways. But I had to revert to Windows 7 because the brightness was stuck at the brightest, which doesn't work too well in a dark room. Hopefully, the CP release will have that fixed.

FYI: Windows 7 is supported until Jan 2020. Given that Win7 was released in Oct 2009, it would be about 10 years of support.
 
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pmz

macrumors 68000
Nov 18, 2009
1,949
0
NJ
Yeah, that must be the reason, why his Mac works fine under Windows 7 and Snow Leopard. It must be the HDD (built by the user, so he is responsible, of course *lol*) and not Lion. Never! This is the “well known” Not-Lion-Compatible-HDD-Issue. Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

----------


This was a fresh installation, so 100 % Apples code (no third party stuff). And you defend Apple here?

Yea of course i do. You'd have to be an idiot to think that Apple's code (which works perfectly on every perfectly-working MACHINE), is the culprit, when you've never even considered that your HDD is faulty. As someone who has worked on hundreds of these machines, I promise you, the toshiba and hitachi HDDs are junk, and probably 1/4 of them are corrupt when they leave the factory. HDD issues can be obvious or very stealthy...but nonetheless easily recognizable, testable, and fixable. If you're still on the factory HDD, and have issues with clean install of lion on proper formatting: 1. Redownload Lion and reformat your USB key and make a new Lion installer, as these are corruptible (again.....seen it happen myself) 2. Remove the guaranteed fault HDD and replace....go from there. If you still have problems, you need to take that machine to Apple and tell them what you've done, tell them it's junk and you won't leave unless it's taken care of.
 

Mr. Retrofire

macrumors 603
Mar 2, 2010
5,064
519
www.emiliana.cl/en
You'd have to be an idiot to think that Apple's code (which works perfectly on every perfectly-working MACHINE), is the culprit, when you've never even considered that your HDD is faulty.
No, because it is much more likely, that the software has a certain problem. Such software (OS) problems make OS updates necessary. I use Macs since 1993. I had only defective HDD in this time, and this was the IBM DTLA Deskstar, better known as "IBM Deathstar".
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
I'd say it is very likely that there was more marketing than software design involved in releasing "Mountain Lion" as such.
I'm sure one factor in going with an .x update was marketing. By announcing ML and providing a developer preview before win8, they stole some thunder from ms.

I do think that they made enough changes to warrant a point upgrade. Also don't forget these updates, upgrades and what not are road mapped years in advance so this wasn't really something they just decided to bang out
 
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