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Is using a tethering app without paying extra, stealing?

J

jajohns8

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 11, 2008
237
0
Is using a tethering app without paying extra, stealing?

I'm not against tethering, I just think you should pay for your fair share of burden on the network.

I was reading the threads concerning the tethering apps and I had to stop and ask myself if it was the same as stealing.

Is it?

Some people claim that "because they already pay for an 'unlimited' data plan," they should be able to tether.

I thought the unlimited data plan was for your phone only. Not for your phone to act like a modem/router for other hardware. At that point your laptop/other hardware is using the data. Not the phone.

If everyone tethered, I would have to assume the already weak and problem prone 3G network would be even worse.

If you use more bandwidth than everyone else, and thus are responsible for more of a burden on the network, then I really think you should pay for it.
Maybe 30.00 a month is too high. I dont know.

I don't love paying bills either. Still, I dont think I should have something just because I think I deserve it. If that's the case, then pony up the Ferrari.

I am not accusing anyone of anything. I think that maybe its been made out to be a "gray" area when its actually pretty simple.

My son learns simple things at home and kindergarten like "if everyone grabbed 2 cookies instead of one, then not everybody would get to have one."

I think that if everyone tethered without paying, it would cause an already problem prone 3g network more problems.
 
If tethering is not addressed in any of your AT&T or Apple agreements then I would not lose sleep over it.

Happy tethering!
:)
 
"(c) You may not and you agree not to, or to enable others to copy, decompile, reverse engineer...modify....the Iphone software........"

Page one, Iphone Software License agreement.

Paragraph 2, section c.

Tethering without paying requires jailbreak, right? Looks like jailbreak is a violation of the agreement.

Illegal? That's another question.

Is it stealing?
 
You're paying for unlimited data. You. Are. Paying.

It maybe against the terms and conditions, but I don't see how it's legally or morally wrong to use your unlimited internet access with a computer.
 
Go ahead, finish that sentence.

You are "paying" for unlimited data "for your phone."
 
jajohns8 said:
Go ahead, finish that sentence.

You are paying for unlimited data "for your phone."
Click to expand...

IMO that's like saying I pay for mobile internet for my laptop, but I'm not allowed to use it with my desktop.

I'd happily tether my iPhone, I've not really done much yet since I haven't gone anywhere lacking WiFi. If you think it's wrong because you're actually paying for internet on your phone, don't tether. If you just see it as paying for internet, tether away.

You're not getting the internet for free, are you?
 
Tokiopop said:
IMO that's like saying pay for mobile internet for my laptop, but I'm not allowed to use it with my desktop.

I'd happily tether my iPhone, I've not really done much yet since I haven't gone anywhere lacking WiFi. If you think it's wrong because you're actually paying for internet on your phone, don't tether. If you just see it as paying for internet, tether away.
Click to expand...

Well, when you pay for a mobile internet card, is it understood in the terms of service you can use it on any pc or laptop?

It probably is.

Is it more of a burden on the 3g network because of what you are doing (moving the card from the desktop to laptop)?

Probably not in this case.

That's not comparing apples to apples.
 
Tokiopop said:
Okay then, mobile internet from a MacBook to a iMac :p
Click to expand...

Good one!

Still though. I guess my perception is that someone who tethers puts a harder strain on the 3g network than does a user who does not tether.

Moving the mobile internet card, as you suggested, from the one device to another is expected and that burden is paid for by the buyer of the mobile internet card. No issues there.

Again, I'm not against tethering, I'm just against people thinking they have a right to free bandwidth.

They paid for unlimited data for their phone. They did not pay for unlimited data that their phone can provide to another device.
 
No, it's just against their terms of service, which is just a heap of legaleeze that won't hold up in court.

If caught tethering, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN LEGALLY. CHARGES WILL NOT BE PRESSED. YOU WILL NOT BE TRIED OR CONVICTED OF THEFT. It is not theft.

You'll get a slap on the wrist, if ANYTHING from AT&T. Not that AT&T has the ability to know that you're tethering anyway, for all they know it's your phone accessing the internet BECAUSE IT IS. The only difference is that you're sending the data along to your computer.

Websites -> Internet -> Phone -> Computer

It's the same as downloading apps and syncing them to your computer:

Apps -> Internet -> Phone -> Computer

Or Podcasts:

Podcasts -> Internet -> Phone -> Computer

I don't know what the MAFIAA have put in your head about what is stealing and what isn't, but let me make it perfectly clear:

Walking into Best Buy, taking a CD and walking out is stealing. CDs are physical objects that cost money to reproduce. After you take it without paying, Best Buy is out one CD and didn't get compensation for it. That is stealing. You stole the CD.

You pay AT&T for unlimited internet. They want to take another $30/mo for you to use the SAME internet on the SAME phone, only view the websites and stuff on your computer instead of on your phone. You don't. You jailbreak and tether or use NetShare to tether. AT&T is NOT out anything. They haven't lost a single dime or object cost of service. It's the SAME internet, they just want to collect more money.

They haven't lost anything:

1. I wasn't going to pay for tethering service anyway, so they haven't lost a customer.
2. I'm using the bandwidth I PAY FOR ANYWAY on my iPhone.
 
The General said:
No, it's just against their terms of service, which is just a heap of legaleeze that won't hold up in court.

If caught tethering, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN LEGALLY. YOU WILL NOT BE TRIED OR CONVICTED OF THEFT. It is not theft.
Click to expand...

Well, sorry, but if they wanted to, it probably would hold up in court.

We all know they aren't going to hunt you down. That's not at all what I'm concerned about.

How is it not theft? You are taking something without paying for it. You pay for unlimited data for your phone. Not for unlimited data that your Iphone can give to another device.

I don't throw trash out of my window when I'm driving because I'm not a douche. Not because I'll have to pay a fine.

I've already said "legal" was another matter. That's not what this thread is about.

Is it stealing? Is it wrong?
 
jajohns8 said:
Well, sorry, but if they wanted to, it probably would hold up in court.
Click to expand...

Show me one case in which someone was tried and convicted using their violation of terms of service or EULA as ANY sort of evidence related to ANYTHING illegal.

Also, I have added more to my previous post.

AT&T is offering you a service. They want to sell it to you.

AT&T: "Hello, good sir. Would you like to purchase the ability to tether your iPhone?"
Me: "Oh, no thanks. I already have that, so I don't need to purchase it. But thanks anyway!"
 
Yes. You are breaking the TOA.

AND you are clogging up a 3G network for the rest of us who are keeping things legal.

And no. It's night all right to say "phone companies" are evil therefore it's ok to steal from them.

Circuit City was evil... and if I had smashed and grabbed one of their TVs I would be in jail.

:rolleyes:
 
Tallest Skil said:
So, what, you don't think that stealing is illegal? They are EXACTLY what this thread is about.

Also, my personal opinion is: It's a telecom, they're screwing everyone on everything anyway, fight the power.
Click to expand...

Ok, so if you are stealing bandwidth, then you are doing something illegal, right?

Great. I wasnt going to make that stretch, but, hey, glad you did.
 
plumbingandtech said:
Yes. You are breaking the TOA.
Click to expand...

Okay... We are also breaking the TOA by using the YouTube app or downloading Podcasts.

Have you even read it? It's a bunch of legalese nonsense.

plumbingandtech said:
AND you are clogging up a 3G network for the rest of us who are keeping things legal.
Click to expand...

Wha?? We're using the bandwidth we paid for... if AT&T's capacity cannot hold us all, then they need to expand. Using our phones to download apps and websites and podcasts isn't "easier" on the bandwidth than surfing the web on our computers... in fact, it's exactly the same.

plumbingandtech said:
And no. It's night all right to say "phone companies" are evil therefore it's ok to steal from them.

Circuit City was evil... and if I had smashed and grabbed one of their TVs I would be in jail.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Taking a TV is theft because Circuit City would have lost a TV without compensation. What does AT&T lose without compensation?


jajohns8 said:
Ok, so if you are stealing bandwidth, then you are doing something illegal, right?

Great. I wasnt going to make that stretch, but, hey, glad you did.
Click to expand...

But we AREN'T stealing bandwidth, we already have UNLIMITED bandwidth for our phones, and when I tether, I'm connecting through my phone, so what is the difference?
 
The General said:
Show me one case in which someone was tried and convicted using their violation of terms of service or EULA as ANY sort of evidence related to ANYTHING illegal.

Also, I have added more to my previous post.

AT&T is offering you a service. They want to sell it to you.

AT&T: "Hello, good sir. Would you like to purchase the ability to tether your iPhone?"
Me: "Oh, no thanks. I already have that, so I don't need to purchase it. But thanks anyway!"
Click to expand...

I already said, we all know they aren't going to hunt you down. That's not what the thread is about.

I think tethering is stealing.

I could care less if they actually come after you in court.

I think that they expect tetherers to pay for their fair share of bandwidth.

I don't think that's unreasonable.
 
The General said:
Okay... We are also breaking the TOA by using the YouTube app or downloading Podcasts.

Have you even read it? It's a bunch of legalese nonsense.



Wha?? We're using the bandwidth we paid for... if AT&T's capacity cannot hold us all, then they need to expand. Using our phones to download apps and websites and podcasts isn't "easier" on the bandwidth than surfing the web on our computers... in fact, it's exactly the same.



Taking a TV is theft because Circuit City would have lost a TV without compensation. What does AT&T lose without compensation?




But we AREN'T stealing bandwidth, we already have UNLIMITED bandwidth for our phones, and when I tether, I'm connecting through my phone, so what is the difference?
Click to expand...

I'm not clear on the youtube violation. What do you mean?

If AT@T has to expand as a result of people using the phone to provide data to another device, you should help pay for that expansion, in proportion to your use, if you are going to use your phone to provide data to another device against the TOS.

You have unlimited bandwidth for your phone. Not for what your phone can provide to another device.
 
jajohns8 said:
I already said, we all know they aren't going to hunt you down. That's not what the thread is about.

I think tethering is stealing.
Click to expand...

And if it were stealing, they would hunt you down, because stealing is illegal.

jajohns8 said:
I could care less if they actually come after you in court.
Click to expand...

You mean you "couldn't" care less. Could means you care somewhat, couldn't means you care the least amount possible.

But, as I said, if it were illegal stealing then you'd be in court for stealing, because stealing is illegal. There is no other distinction of stealing. Maybe you have a delusion based no some sort of religion, but again, that won't hold up in court. There is no morale to be discussed here.

jajohns8 said:
I think that they expect tetherers to pay for their fair share of bandwidth.
Click to expand...

AND WE FRICKIN DO! What is it that you don't understand about this? WE PAY $30/MO FOR UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH.

jajohns8 said:
You have unlimited bandwith for your phone. Not for what your phone can provide to another device.
Click to expand...

I USE MY PHONE TO CONNECT TO THE INTERNET. I AM USING MY PHONE'S UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH.

This is like my cable company calling me up and saying "hey, you paid for unlimited data on your MODEM. If you want to use your computers you gotta pay extra."

I don't need my internet providers freaking MICROMANAGING how I use my UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH.
 
The General said:
And if it were stealing, they would hunt you down, because stealing is illegal.



You mean you "couldn't" care less. Could means you care somewhat, couldn't means you care the least amount possible.

But, as I said, if it were illegal stealing then you'd be in court for stealing, because stealing is illegal. There is no other distinction of stealing. Maybe you have a delusion based no some sort of religion, but again, that won't hold up in court. There is no morale to be discussed here.



AND WE FRICKIN DO! What is it that you don't understand about this? WE PAY $30/MO FOR UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH.



I USE MY PHONE TO CONNECT TO THE INTERNET. I AM USING MY PHONE'S UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH.

This is like my cable company calling me up and saying "hey, you paid for unlimited data on your MODEM. If you want to use your computers you gotta pay extra."

I don't need my internet providers freaking MICROMANAGING how I use my UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH.
Click to expand...

Wow, I must be getting to you if you have to resort to "corektin' mah grammmmur."

Not my intention to get to you, BTW.

We can do that in another thread if you want... to (compare brain pans.) Let's keep this on topic, k?

Also, because I am not hauled into court over stealing a paper clip doesn't mean it's not wrong. So...the whole "AT@T isnt bringing people to court, so it must be ok" argument fails.

No, its not like what you said at all. You are talking about a 3G network that caved because of how fragile it is during the Iphone 3g activation debacle.

This isnt the same as your cable broadband network. That comparison is inaccurate.
 
Okay... We are also breaking the TOA by using the YouTube app or downloading Podcasts.
Click to expand...

Of course not since are downloading them ON the phone, not via tether.

Have you even read it? It's a bunch of legalese nonsense.
Click to expand...

Wow. Just wow. So legalese in a legal document means it is null and void?

Just wow.

Wha?? We're using the bandwidth we paid for... if AT&T's capacity cannot hold us all, then they need to expand. Using our phones to download apps and websites and podcasts isn't "easier" on the bandwidth than surfing the web on our computers... in fact, it's exactly the same.
Click to expand...

Here. I corrected it for you:

Wha?? We're using the bandwidth on the iphone, we paid for...
Click to expand...

ON the iphone. Tethering is NOT the iphone, it is a conduit. You get unlimited bandwidget using the phone. Not unlimited tethered. Not really rocket science here.

Taking a TV is theft because Circuit City would have lost a TV without compensation. What does AT&T lose without compensation?
Click to expand...

It forces them to upgrade $$$$ their 3g network faster so the people following the rules don't complain and leave the service.


But we AREN'T stealing bandwidth, we already have UNLIMITED bandwidth for our phones, and when I tether, I'm connecting through my phone, so what is the difference?
Click to expand...

See above. On the phone. And the bandwidth is NOT yours, it is ATTs and you and I are paying for the use of it.

ATT gets to say what we can do with THEIR bandwidth. They say no to tether on the iphone. If one disagrees with all that then one can cancel one's ATT mobile phone service.
 
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